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Bagley's gonna give you strange faces. So, Ultimate End, is all that out of the blue or was it set up in other books?
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May 20, 2015 16:41
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zoux posted:So, Ultimate End, is all that out of the blue or was it set up in other books? This is why I was so confused by it. I followed the Ultimate stuff until they stopped putting out books, and there's really no indication of anything that went on in UE#1. Seeing 616 Spider-Man and the rest, I was like "what is going on here", but it looks like it's just a severe case of BATTLEWORLD. Hopefully it'll get more coherent in upcoming issues. Also I dunno if my quick blurb reviews are valuable but I figured since there's so much stuff coming out, that I'd give my opinion on what I'm reading. I know I'd personally appreciate the same about other books in the event, because lord knows I'm gonna miss some hidden gem or another.
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May 20, 2015 16:52
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I got all the cross overs today but spider-verse. Battleworld and planet hulk were good. A-force was surprisingly drawn well. Deadpool super secret was a good read too. The weakest one was ultimate end. I don't think I'll be picking the next issue up.
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May 20, 2015 17:21
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Ultimate End was also kind of confusing in that Bagley drew a lot of people in the wrong costumes. 616 Tony was in the Bleeding edge armor that I think is two or three armors old at this point, Emma was in her old costume, Ultimate Jessica Drew was in her old costume. But everyone was in their correct costumes on the opening splash page, so I'm wondering if it was intentional? It's hard to figure out when it's taking place. The Thor-Corps appearance makes it seem that its taking place in Battleword Post-SW #1, but if that's the case shouldn't Cyclops be al Phoenixed up? Secret Wars #1 and most of the promos with Ultimate characters also have characters like Ultimate Iron Man, Cap and Thor in costumes they haven't worn since Ultimates 2.
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May 20, 2015 17:22
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Dacap posted:Ultimate End was also kind of confusing in that Bagley drew a lot of people in the wrong costumes. Not to mention, Scott and Peter should be on the Illuminati's life raft, while 616 Tony should be dead.
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May 20, 2015 17:24
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The the Ultimate Universe ends as it lived: a confusing mess where artists draw whatever the gently caress they want.
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May 20, 2015 17:24
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Senor Candle posted:I'm sorry are you complaining about Gillen getting to write more America Chavez? Yeah cos Filipe Andrade will be drawing her 
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May 20, 2015 17:25
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Yvonmukluk posted:Not to mention, Scott and Peter should be on the Illuminati's life raft, while 616 Tony should be dead. Yeah this was what confused me as well. It's a drat good thing they are all speaking in a different font or I wouldn't know which universe half of them were from.
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May 20, 2015 17:27
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I got A-Force, Battleword, Master of Kung Fu and Planet Hulk. I honestly like them all, but I think I actually like MoK Fu the best. Though the first story of Battleworld was pretty drat great as well.
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May 20, 2015 17:41
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Dacap posted:Ultimate End was also kind of confusing in that Bagley drew a lot of people in the wrong costumes. Maybe Doom prefers the older costumes. I know I do.
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May 20, 2015 17:51
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I do love how Doom just straight slouches on his tree throne like he's loving Conan.
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May 20, 2015 17:52
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Aphrodite posted:Maybe Doom prefers the older costumes.
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May 20, 2015 17:54
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Yeah, it seems like 616 was rewound a little bit after the collision and the creation of Battleworld. I suppose chalk it up to being a construct of Doom's and just let the story play out.
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May 20, 2015 18:05
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Master of Kung-Fu and Spider-Verse were really good. Planet Hulk and Battleworld were goofy but solid. Ultimate End was messy, I have no idea what's going on with Battleworld Manhattan. A-Force was weak. Deadpool is probably only tolerable if you're really into Deadpool, but I liked the backup story.
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May 20, 2015 18:06
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TNG posted:Yeah, it seems like 616 was rewound a little bit after the collision and the creation of Battleworld. I suppose chalk it up to being a construct of Doom's and just let the story play out. It's just odd that the first time we see normal 616 characters is in a tie in and not in one of the main books, and not explained at all.
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May 20, 2015 18:06
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net cafe scandal posted:Master of Kung-Fu and Spider-Verse were really good. Planet Hulk and Battleworld were goofy but solid. Ultimate End was messy, I have no idea what's going on with Battleworld Manhattan. A-Force was weak. Deadpool is probably only tolerable if you're really into Deadpool, but I liked the backup story. Totally agree with all of this. A-Force felt more like #0 rather than #1.
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May 20, 2015 18:16
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May 20, 2015 18:16
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I found Ultimate End #1 completely inscrutable. I mean, you can just accept the premise the comic gives you and understand the specific story of this issue, but its context makes no sense. We were introduced to Battleworld in media res. For the non-616 and non-Ultimate zones, that's fine, since we weren't following them in the lead-up to Secret Wars so there's no "before" we need to link to. For 616 and Ultimate, the last we saw of them was their destruction in SW #1, with the two universes fighting as the multiverse came down around them. So how do we get from that, to what is presented here in Ultimate End #1? What happened after the big empty whiteness of the end of SW #1? Presumably the exact mechanism and meaning of Battleworld is preserved for Hickman to tell in the main SW series, but some kind of "omg what is this white light, wait now where are we?" would have helped. What made the two universes stop fighting? How are they aware of Doom to even know that the arrival of the Thors on the last page means Doom is aware of them? Why is 616 Tony not dead, or at least badly injured or in some way affected by his fight to the death with 616 Cap? Why isn't Cyclops Phoenix-ized? For that matter, why are the escape ship / Manifold-rescued people intermixed with the non-rescued people who "died" with the rest of the universe? Just the word "what" repeated a hundred times in a row.
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May 20, 2015 18:17
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Neo_Reloaded posted:I found Ultimate End #1 completely inscrutable. I mean, you can just accept the premise the comic gives you and understand the specific story of this issue, but its context makes no sense. I'll preface this by saying I didn't read this one, but why would they remember anything? I'm pretty sure as far as the residents are concerned Battleworld has always been 'the world'.
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May 20, 2015 18:29
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zoux posted:It's just odd that the first time we see normal 616 characters is in a tie in and not in one of the main books, and not explained at all. We saw 616 Thanos and his pals in Secret Wars #2
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May 20, 2015 18:31
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Senor Candle posted:We saw 616 Thanos and his pals in Secret Wars #2 Yeah and that made sense. UE, I had no idea what was going one.
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May 20, 2015 18:34
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Zythrst posted:I'll preface this by saying I didn't read this one, but why would they remember anything? I'm pretty sure as far as the residents are concerned Battleworld has always been 'the world'. Well the characters recognize that the alt versions of them are from a different universe, so it's not like they're used to being inside a mixed 616/Ultimate Manhattan in the middle of Battleworld. They also talk about solving the problem and "going back, if there's anything left to go back to." And for some characters (Cyclops, other people from the rescue raft), they should remember as they did not die and get "reborn" or whatever on Battleworld - they lived through whatever happened. Unless this is a duplicate "reborn" 616 Cyclops even though the original 616 Cyclops is still around as well, but that is certainly not explained either.
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May 20, 2015 18:44
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zoux posted:Yeah and that made sense. UE, I had no idea what was going one. It's confusing as to how the 616 and Ultimate universes have become mixed up, but as for the costumes and who is dead\ not dead, well that's just Batlleworld stuff. As far as I can tell, Battleworld is all there is as far as everyone on it is concerned. It doesn't matter that certain characters should be dead or not, because this isn't really 'our; versions of the two universes, its the Battleworld versions. As to exactly how the two universes became mixed up, on this part of the Battleworld, that seems to be the premise of this particular story. Its confusing, because the mystery of how Battleworld works muddles up the mystery of what's going on in this particular corner of it. We still don't really have much of an idea of how this place ties all together. Also, back to the A-Force conversation, yes it could be that America is being carted off to be in Gillen's Shield series, but also its been established that there are multiples of lots of characters existing across the Battleworld, so I wouldn't presume yet that its definitely going to be this America that we see there. My guess is that the characters on the life rafts get to have multiples, but other characters don't, in which case it might well be the same America, but I'm totally prepared to be proven wrong there. Also, I liked A-Force but didn't think America was quite right. I don't think she's the same one from Young Avengers, but it might just have been the way Wilson writes her.
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May 20, 2015 18:53
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We need to remember that we're only three weeks into this event. I'm sure we'll be getting more answers soon.
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May 20, 2015 19:37
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I agree that Battleworld 1610/616 are just copies of Manhattan that Doom constructed on a whim. He then combined the two through the interdimensional portal scenario he constructed. No one really remembers the incursions because life has always just gone on as usual in the Battleworld sense. Meanwhile, everyone in the 616 raft is somewhere out there in Battleworld with full knowledge of everything that's gone on.
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May 20, 2015 19:39
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krakagar posted:Also, back to the A-Force conversation, yes it could be that America is being carted off to be in Gillen's Shield series, but also its been established that there are multiples of lots of characters existing across the Battleworld, so I wouldn't presume yet that its definitely going to be this America that we see there. My guess is that the characters on the life rafts get to have multiples, but other characters don't, in which case it might well be the same America, but I'm totally prepared to be proven wrong there. No it is, it literally reminds you that there is only one America Chavez in the entire multiverse
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May 20, 2015 19:51
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ElNarez posted:No it is, it literally reminds you that there is only one America Chavez in the entire multiverse God, I hate the idea of there being only one version of a character in the multiverse, especially for such a low-level character like America Chavez. I mean that makes sense for the Anti-Monitor, since he wipes out entire universes, but America isn't exactly anything special. Why SHOULD there only be one of her? The marvel multiverse was theoretically infinite, why is there only one of her? It's right up there with 616 somehow being magically unique. It's the one we read books about, dammit, that should be enough to make us care instead of making it the focal point of the multiverse.
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May 20, 2015 20:16
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America Chavez is cool and you're bad.
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May 20, 2015 20:20
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Senor Candle posted:America Chavez is cool and you're bad. I wasn't making a value judgement on her as a character, just the whole 'she is unique in the ENTIRE MULTIVERSE' part. Why is that necessary?
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May 20, 2015 21:04
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Yvonmukluk posted:I wasn't making a value judgement on her as a character, just the whole 'she is unique in the ENTIRE MULTIVERSE' part. Why is that necessary? It's not really any more implausible a special power than a lot of them. I mean if we can buy that there is only one non-shithead Reed Richards in existence, we can buy that I think.
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May 20, 2015 21:10
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America Chavez's original home was outside of our multiverse wasn't it? It only makes sense that she's unique in that aspect.
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May 20, 2015 21:45
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Trapped in a world he never made!
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May 20, 2015 22:34
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I'm going to assume A-Force Carol is not the same one that was on the life raft. Deadpool, Doop and Howard teaming up was pretty cool.
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May 21, 2015 00:01
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I read Ultimate End. It wasn't bad. Like at all. It's also kinda obvious as to what's going on. This is entirely a fabrication of Doom by whatever machinations he created Battleworld. Both 616 and 1610 meeting to solve a problem is not referring to incursions but to the "tear" between universes from Spider-Men / Cataclysm. It's why Spidey, Cyclops, and 616 Tony are there. This is basically playing out as if there was a "backup" running behind from which Battleworld used to form up these fragmented realities. My guess is we're going to have to delve deeper into Hickman's main book to figure out the exact mechanics behind the formation of Battleworld since I doubt Doom chose all of it but this is 100% not the survivors of an incursion. Everyone DID die.
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May 21, 2015 00:08
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Probably the biggest confusing thing about Secret Wars is how there are a bunch of what seem to be the same characters.
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May 21, 2015 01:40
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I wonder what Doom's justification for people having in some cases dozens or hundreds of copies of themselves scattered around is in his little religion? Probably "Because Doom felt like it."
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May 21, 2015 01:51
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Kudos to Loki Agent of Asgard for having the best explanation of Secret Wars yet: Curious about UE because in Spider-verse it's said that Spider-man has been missing in i think 616 Manhattan for years now (probably cuz of the real one being in the raft thing in SW 1). Does UE happen only in the Ultimate side of the city or something? MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 02:33 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 02:26
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Wolpertinger posted:I wonder what Doom's justification for people having in some cases dozens or hundreds of copies of themselves scattered around is in his little religion? Probably "Because Doom felt like it." seems pretty easy to me, if the last time people went up against one beyonder it took one copy of basically every useful superhero to make that scenario end well, if you're going against a family of beyonders, maybe you should see about getting a whole shitload of the heroes then let them work it out amongst themselves on who is the best of the best and then maybe they have a shot at the end of the universe. Or at least that might have been the original plan, then Doom decided being God Doom of Doomlandia instead of a dictator of Latveria was a little bit more fun and now he just has a shitload of Thors because it's fun to have a shitload of Thors as your police force.
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May 21, 2015 02:50
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:Kudos to Loki Agent of Asgard for having the best explanation of Secret Wars yet: It seems more like Manhattan is split into 2 universes rather than physically split.
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May 21, 2015 03:12
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Picked up Planet Hulk and Battleworld. Wasnt expecting Battleworld to be a bunch of mini stories. Not that all jazzed about it. Planet Hulk was great though. If you liked the original Planet Hulk sort of scenario, go for it.
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May 21, 2015 03:47
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