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You're grinding averse but praise an item found only as a rare drop in the final dungeon? And yeah, most of my examples for boosting would be on a Freelancer, although I guess if you put !Black on there then you'd want a Rune Chime. Or you could use a Main Gauche for defense and get similar results from Flare. As for randoms versus bosses...you have a point that you spend more time fighting randoms than bosses, but individually they're not challenging. You might be able to get through them faster with a Geomancer versus a Chemist, but that's really only apparent on a low offense team. Or, more practically, you'll only notice the Geomancer helping with randoms if the rest of your team is a Thief, a Red Mage, and a Dancer. Ironically, that's the exact sort of team that would really appreciate a Chemist to pass on !Drink for survivability. That said, it's the bosses that are the real challenge. Geomancer can't do crap against most bosses. Chemists can survive most things no problem. And while their damage output isn't usually better on paper, Speed Drinks mean they, at worst, hit harder than a Geomancer. And you wouldn't put !Drink on the party? Why not? What secondary are you using that beats it out? Double grip, !Dualcast, !Rapid Fire, these I can all see. There's not really anything else. If you want a second caster, you've got a perfectly good Chemist right there. Haste is so good every other accessory is passed up in favor of it. Why would you not want that on everyone? There are very few classes who would not be improved with !Drink instead of a regular secondary. Don't give me the money argument: at 110 gil a pop, twenty drinks costs less than five Phoenix Downs. The Katana from Tycoon alone will finance half the game's bosses worth of drinks for the party. Even if you don't want to put !Drink on the entire party, !Drink ensures that any secondary you give the Chemist will run at full speed. Literally only Thief and Geomancer give nothing for a Chemist to abuse with self-inflicted Haste. Again, that doesn't apply if you've got a low offense party. So yeah, I guess if you always roll Thief/Red Mage/Geomancer parties, you're not going to be too excited when you get a Chemist. Replace any of those, and I mean any of those, with another class, and the Chemist makes the entire party better.
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May 20, 2015 10:18
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Schwartzcough posted:Chemists can double their HP, Haste themselves, etc.- it's too bad Chemist is an absolute poo poo job at doing anything besides buffing themselves if you take away !Mix. They can't do damage Chemists have Knife access. loving Samson's Might yourself up to level 255 and apply liberal amounts of Chicken Knife to bosses' faces.
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May 20, 2015 13:34
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If you have a Blue Mage + Chemist then you just win. !Mix is flat-out the best skill in the entire game just from the sheer potential it provides. A single Chemist is already deadly enough to 100% the game solo, but adding Level magic into the equation gives you this.
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May 20, 2015 13:47
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This time I'm gonna make sure to get everything finished before the last day so gilgabot doesn't miss my amazing total victory! When I get some free time I'll give Kyrosiris my twitter handle, as stated in the OP. I'm really glad that has been looked at, as twitter's sudden change really screwed thing up for a lot of people last year. Or maybe just for me.
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May 20, 2015 16:14
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Yay, it's almost Fiesta time!  Played FFV for the first time last winter to get a taste for it. Gonna start with a regular run, a 750 run, and then see what happens. Maybe chaos, maybe BERSERKERRISK 
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May 20, 2015 16:20
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what was everybody's favorite party last summer? Mine was my second run, a 750 that gave me Black Mage, Summoner, Bard, and Dancer. It wasn't really difficult at all, was fun for tons of battles, was my first real foray into the world of Dancers, and gave me a three-boss kill.
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May 20, 2015 16:26
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My favorite was my 4th. Knight, Red Mage, Ranger and Samurai. Team  It was my highest level one I'm sure as it was just faster to kill random encounters than to run from them. Charging up the chicken knife was kind of annoying. E: yes, i was 53 when I beat shinryuu. Ugato fucked around with this message at 16:47 on May 20, 2015 |
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May 20, 2015 16:33
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Schwartzcough posted:My grinding aversion is also why I don't care for Mix- grinding for Turtle Shells, Dragon Fangs, and Dark Matter (i.e., the ingredients used in all the best mixes) is a boring slog.
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May 20, 2015 16:51
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Probably Monk/Mystic Knight/Bard/Dancer. I was surprised by how well they went together, it felt really good. I think it was the Bard that held all the classes together, honestly.
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May 20, 2015 17:05
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Kyrosiris posted:Chemists have Knife access. loving Samson's Might yourself up to level 255 and apply liberal amounts of Chicken Knife to bosses' faces. Chaotic Neutral posted:Hmm yes all the best mixes, nevermind the dirt cheap full heals, full revives, full restore, full ether, level boosting, element boosting, big three element absorption, poison immunity, death immunity, float, charm, 8x osmose, and haste+image+berserk. Pretty much all the mixes that restore MP (and don't require you to be dead first) still require Elixirs or Ethers, which aren't cheap. You can boost 10 levels at a time, but remember that discussion in this thread about how levels are relatively unimportant? Yeah, raising 10 levels at a time is inefficient for almost all situations. Sure, you can mix death immunity and apply it to a character, but then the boss might not use the death move, or use it on the 3 unprotected characters... until you spend multiple turns applying it to additional characters... and now you've spent thousands of gil worth of Phoenix Downs and Holy Waters, and it's not so cheap anymore. Maybe I always just get decent enough other units when I get a Chemist, but I almost never end up needing them. I'll throw up a few immunity mixes during bosses which never end up mattering before the boss dies. Or I'll boost levels a few times which adds maybe 500 damage over the course of a boss fight. Or I have my Chemist doubling his HP, applying haste to himself, and giving himself protect, and then the boss dies while my Chemist did nothing but play with himself. Ironically, some of the points where my Chemist is most useful is to apply Float to everyone to get over damage floors... which Geomancers handle innately. Like I said, Chemists aren't bad, but a lot of their usefulness is so cumbersome in a 4-person party, or so gimmicky, that you basically need a completely useless team in order for them to shine. They can almost always get you to the finish line... eventually. They are basically great for weird runs like solo runs or level-1 teams, but in a more normal playthrough (even a FJF restricted one), they become much less useful. If you have even a modicum of damage output, status options, or healing/boosting from other sources, Chemists tend to be much less dominating. People are free to love them, but for me they're not the "best job in the game" when measured from a team-based standpoint.
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May 20, 2015 18:00
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Schwartzcough posted:You can boost 10 levels at a time, but remember that discussion in this thread about how levels are relatively unimportant? Yeah, raising 10 levels at a time is inefficient for almost all situations. Assuming, let's say a level 25 Knight with the Great Sword from the canal in Bal Castle, one Samson's Might takes them from 627 damage (not using Two-Handed) to 855 damage. I don't really see how one action that gives someone a roughly, what, 30% damage increase is "inefficient", especially for the hilariously low cost of one antidote and one holy water. Also in what universe are ethers not cheap? Even if you don't stock up in Lix when they're 750 a piece, they're 1500 a piece. Are you not selling outdated equipment and stuff? 1500 gil seems like a trivial amount to pay to turn a phoenix down from "revives at critical HP" to "revives at 100% max HP/MP". 
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May 20, 2015 18:08
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Schwartzcough posted:Pretty much all the mixes that restore MP (and don't require you to be dead first) still require Elixirs or Ethers, which aren't cheap. You can boost 10 levels at a time, but remember that discussion in this thread about how levels are relatively unimportant? Yeah, raising 10 levels at a time is inefficient for almost all situations. Sure, you can mix death immunity and apply it to a character, but then the boss might not use the death move, or use it on the 3 unprotected characters... until you spend multiple turns applying it to additional characters... and now you've spent thousands of gil worth of Phoenix Downs and Holy Waters, and it's not so cheap anymore. 2) All I'm getting from this is that you don't like Chemists because you have no idea how to use them properly and/or are overleveled for the bosses you're fighting.
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May 20, 2015 18:20
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Sprite141 posted:This time I'm gonna make sure to get everything finished before the last day so gilgabot doesn't miss my amazing total victory! When I get some free time I'll give Kyrosiris my twitter handle, as stated in the OP. I'm really glad that has been looked at, as twitter's sudden change really screwed thing up for a lot of people last year. Or maybe just for me. It wasn't just you, I had to have Kyrosis tweet at RK to have Gilgabot follow me last year, because none of my tweets to either of them were going through and it would've caused me to end on an incomplete run. Poque posted:what was everybody's favorite party last summer? Most of my parties last year were pretty same-y since I got Summoner for 3/4 of them, hell two of my parties were identical outside of one job (White Mage/Summoner/Geomancer/Dragoon was my first run, White Mage/Summoner/Ninja/Dragoon was my third, though I ended up Job Fairing for a Chemist on that one). In the end I guess my favorite was Blue Mage/Summoner/Geomancer/Beastmaster because I'd never used Beastmaster before and it was pretty fun.
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May 20, 2015 18:26
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Trasson posted:MAGIC ELEMENT UP: Air, Earth, Holy, Poison, Lightning, Ice, Fire Is there ANY equipment in the game that boosts water damage? Poor Leviathan is complete garbage without a chemist.
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May 20, 2015 18:46
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Fister Roboto posted:Is there ANY equipment in the game that boosts water damage? Poor Leviathan is complete garbage without a chemist. Nope. This is why Syldra is the best summon. All the power of Bahamut, at half the price.
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May 20, 2015 18:47
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Leviathan's biggest advantage is that a lot of enemies in the final dungeon are weak to water, so he'll actually outdamage every other summon there. Still a bit situational, though.
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May 20, 2015 18:52
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Kyrosiris posted:Nope. This is why Syldra is the best summon. All the power of Bahamut, at half the price. It's just hilarious that there are two ultimate weapons that boost the power of every element in the game EXCEPT for the one used by the penultimate summon. What were they even thinking?
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May 20, 2015 18:57
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If you have a summoner, your team is already good enough to the point where getting Leviathan is a straight-up waste of time.
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May 20, 2015 19:00
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I love the fact that you can just walk right by Leviathan. Just "hey bro, thanks for the save there, later." and head on out.
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May 20, 2015 19:01
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Asiina posted:I love the fact that you can just walk right by Leviathan. Head on out and collect your much-needed Firebute, Assassin's Dagger, and Gaia's Bell
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May 20, 2015 19:03
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Poque posted:Head on out and collect your much-needed Firebute, Assassin's Dagger, and Gaia's Bell Who, other than teams with Equip Axes, doesn't get the Assassin's Dagger in the first three? 
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May 20, 2015 19:10
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Poque posted:If you have a summoner, your team is already good enough to the point where getting Leviathan is a straight-up waste of time. If you have a summoner getting the other tablets is a straight-up waste of time. Just grab Syldra and wreck the final dungeon.
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May 20, 2015 19:11
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Kyrosiris posted:Who, other than teams with Equip Axes, doesn't get the Assassin's Dagger in the first three? Assuming I have the jobs necessary to equip them, I'd rather have Magus Rod, Sage Staff, Masamune, Apollo's Harp, and maybe Excalibur??? before the Dagger. I can't remember if Excal is really that useful but if I have another char that'll work well with the chicken knife then I'll take the Excal for a Knight over Brave Blade.
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May 20, 2015 19:17
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Poque posted:Assuming I have the jobs necessary to equip them, I'd rather have Magus Rod, Sage Staff, Masamune, Apollo's Harp, and maybe Excalibur??? before the Dagger. I can't remember if Excal is really that useful but if I have another char that'll work well with the chicken knife then I'll take the Excal for a Knight over Brave Blade. Excalibur is holy elemental, and there are a handful of enemies in the final dungeon that absorb holy.
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May 20, 2015 19:22
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ultrafilter posted:Excalibur is holy elemental, and there are a handful of enemies in the final dungeon that absorb holy. bvut also a fair number that are weak to holy, and it gives +5 str. it's a good weapon
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May 20, 2015 19:28
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Fister Roboto posted:It's just hilarious that there are two ultimate weapons that boost the power of every element in the game EXCEPT for the one used by the penultimate summon. What were they even thinking? 
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May 20, 2015 19:42
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ultrafilter posted:Excalibur is holy elemental, and there are a handful of enemies in the final dungeon that absorb holy. None of which are bosses.  But yeah, fair enough. I always prefer to have the Assassin's Dagger before I head into the Void just for Twintania if nothing else, so often times I'll kick the Solitary Island Shrine over if I really need four weapons.
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May 20, 2015 19:46
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Chaotic Neutral posted:1) Why would you ever use an Elixir mix? All of their effects are either the exact same as Elixir or duplicated by cheaper mixes. Ethers are the most 'expensive' component, but they're also trivial to steal and cost a mere 1500gp to mix into full MP restore rather than drinking them one at a time. 1) I've never used an Elixir mix- I was pointing out that there aren't a bunch of super-cheap MP restoring mixes. And again- because I avoid grinding - 1500 Gil is still a bit pricey for me to stock up on through a large part of the game. Especially when I'm stocking up on all the OTHER ingredients Chemists need to contribute. Hell, I don't even like using Phoenix Downs at 1000 a pop- too rich for my blood. 2) I know how to use them, and I usually end my runs at levels 32-33, which is not high enough for most jobs to survive an Almagest. I think the bigger issue is I don't like using a bunch of items on random battles, which Chemists need to do in order to contribute anything. If they want to contribute anything really useful, they need to use Turtle Shells or Dragon Fangs. But jeez, don't take it so personally that you need start with the "u suk" accusations. We're all just friendly Fiestaers here. Kyrosiris posted:Assuming, let's say a level 25 Knight with the Great Sword from the canal in Bal Castle, one Samson's Might takes them from 627 damage (not using Two-Handed) to 855 damage. I don't really see how one action that gives someone a roughly, what, 30% damage increase is "inefficient", especially for the hilariously low cost of one antidote and one holy water. So in your example, the Chemist just used a turn and two items (while relying on having an actual damage-dealing character) to contribute 228 damage; that's chump change damage. Yes, that can slowly accumulate over long fights, but there just aren't that many long fights in the game. That's my point- for chemists to shine, you need protracted battles of attrition, which you typically do not get with a full team. Battles, even against bosses, tend to end in like 4 or 5 turns. And I do sell equipment, but I'm still pretty broke until late-game. Unless I abuse the gil turtle cave, I'm not made of 1500-gil consumables.
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May 20, 2015 20:15
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Schwartzcough posted:So in your example, the Chemist just used a turn and two items (while relying on having an actual damage-dealing character) to contribute 228 damage; that's chump change damage. Yes, that can slowly accumulate over long fights, but there just aren't that many long fights in the game. That's my point- for chemists to shine, you need protracted battles of attrition, which you typically do not get with a full team. Battles, even against bosses, tend to end in like 4 or 5 turns. Given that the best they'd be doing attacking themselves is maybe the low 300s at that point? I don't consider that chump change at all. Plus, the items you seem to be having kittens about are a grand total of 180 gil. If you don't have this, please spend a couple of minutes in Bal Castle's basement. Also, I want to know what compositions you get that routinely let you beat fights like world 2 Exdeath, Atomos, Shinryu, etc. in five turns.
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May 20, 2015 20:29
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If you're killing significant bosses in 5 rounds, you've got a team that's already extremely powerful. Most teams aren't killing Archaevis or Atmos in 5 rounds, much less Shinryu or Neo Exdeath, especially when you get there early. Even then, Chemists are guaranteed insurance that your damage dealers can lay down maximum damage heedless of resources. Try blasting the entire game into oblivion with Summon without a source of MP restoration. You think Ethers are expensive when you're using a Chemist? Chemists are mediocre at random encounters without a supporting ability, but the same could be said of fellow gamebreakers White Mage, Time Mage, and Bard. It's easy to get shortcuts through random encounters, it's not so simple to get shortcuts past the big roadblocks.
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May 20, 2015 20:31
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All I know is Chemists and Bards are awesome enough to let me kill Neo-Exdeath without it getting a turn off so they're both cool jobs in my book.
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May 20, 2015 20:56
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Poque posted:what was everybody's favorite party last summer? I had a random run where I got White Mage, Black Mage, Geomancer, Summoner. After a bunch or runs where you use all sorts of tricks to squeak by bosses, it's nice to just destroy things with sheer damage.
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May 20, 2015 21:27
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The real problem with Chemist is that they make the game too easy.
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May 20, 2015 21:29
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Chemist can equip the Healing Staff which is pretty much all you need for Random Encounters
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May 20, 2015 21:37
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Chaotic Neutral posted:Time Mage Time mages can defeat any random encounter with a single action.
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May 20, 2015 21:44
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Exit doesn't count!
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May 20, 2015 22:09
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This year is the first year that I'm not gonna get bored 50% in and quit. I CAN FEEL IT.
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May 20, 2015 22:11
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Chaotic Neutral posted:Exit doesn't count! The best way to deal with random encounters is to not deal with them.
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May 20, 2015 22:12
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Fister Roboto posted:The best way to deal with random encounters is to not deal with them. Amen.
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May 20, 2015 22:13
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The best way to deal with random encounters is Quick + Venom Rod and play another game of FF5 while that random encounter finishes.
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May 20, 2015 22:18
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