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Dungeon Ecology posted:e: Also, on an unrelated note, is there a tutorial on how to mod DF? I'm more or less looking to understand the framework, and maybe eventually make some changes. If you mean "how to mod DF?" in the sense of "how do I install mods?" then that's much more straightforward - read the readme, extract the files, overwrite as needed. Unless you're trying to get six different complete-overhaul mods to cooperate ... then you need finesse and lots of patience.
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May 21, 2015 02:30
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More of the former -- I'd like to be able to make raw edits, maybe introduce a new NPC race, or something to that extent, then move into graphical display. I don't really have much coding experience which will make this whole endeavor a trek on my part, but it's something I'm willing to put time into if I can come out of the other end with something tangible. So I guess, to answer your question, I'd like to learn how to start raw editing.
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May 21, 2015 02:35
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Dungeon Ecology posted:But doesn't the program have to check to see whether the 'corpse' item is a dwarf corpse or a dingo corpse or a cave crocodile corpse? How would it know which alphabet letter to display? I imagine the could be some small system implemented to check to see which letter is displayed and overlay a new sprite or something. This coming from a person who doesn't know how to C++... There's the usual system ([CREATURE_TILE:@]) still working underneath the fancy creature graphical exception system that looks strictly at creatures. It's no longer a creature when it dies, just meat and bones. Also there's no real coding involved in raws. Just many, many tokens. Warm up your square brackets. e: The way bodies are constructed is a total clusterfuck by default thanks to Toady trying to use the system itself as its own documentation, showing off things by assembling the vanilla creatures in the most convoluted and complex way possible. Stick perhaps to civilizations and workshops first. scamtank fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 02:44
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scamtank posted:Also there's no real coding involved in raws. Just many, many tokens. Warm up your square brackets. It would be great if there were some sort of engine for a lot of these things -- Just sort of select what you want to do (build creature, build civilization, create language, etc) and the engine could walk you through what each creature/civ/language needs in order to function correctly, and then spits out the completed raws for your to copy/paste. I mean, if I even remotely knew how to do that, that's probably where I would start. It could make modding way more accessible.
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May 21, 2015 02:55
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Dungeon Ecology posted:It would be great if there were some sort of engine for a lot of these things Unfortunately, "create a new civ" is only one use-case, and it's a fairly rare/minor one at that. The much more common/important use-cases involve merging. "Please get the new civilization from Mod A to use the new alloys defined by Mod B and the new types of nobillity from Mod C while retaining the worldgen optimizations from Mod D and the armor overhaul from Mod E." Or "please take this thoroughly-modded race which works perfectly in DF2012 and perform whatever updates are needed so that I can use it in DF2014 with all of the new features and without any conflicts or crashes." In order for merging to be possible, the modding-framework tool needs to understand quite a lot about the tags themselves (nesting, priority, duplication, etc). Remember: there is no API. What we know about tags is based on official documentation (sparse), code decompilation and tracing, Arena mode testing, and guesswork which people post on the wiki. Merging works best if the mod-makers themselves include new meta-tags within their work - to assist the framework in identifying separable modules, section boundaries, and core-vs-optional elements. Don't forget that DFHack also adds a few special tags to the vocabulary - be careful not to use any of those "reserved words" for your modular meta-tags! So the modular framework gets released ... to no fanfare whatsoever. It isn't mature enough to have a GUI; it relies entirely on command-line input. Therefore it's too complicated for novice users (who might benefit from its features), while the experts are probably accustomed to hand-merging their files and don't trust someone else's code. And then the CompSci hyper-spergs arrive, and begin to bicker about regExes and symbol closure and context-free grammar. One of the ASM gurus emerges from a thirty-hour hacking session to reveal that several of your crucial assumptions about tag precedence are invalid. And we belatedly realize that nobody is willing to expend the enormous effort needed to migrate the major mods (e.g. Masterwork) onto the modular framework ... especially since the guys developing the modular framework will probably CHANGE THE RULES when you're halfway done, and Meph will continue working on his mod in the meantime. And, just to twist the knife, a significant number of modders will actively refuse to cooperate with you -- they don't want their work to be auto-merged into some godawful chimeric amalgamation of Drow elves and steampunk cannons and My Little Pony. Before we've resolved any of these arguments, the original author abandons the project in despair. Or DF2016 is released, rendering the project moot. Here's a very old example. Here's a newer one. The LNP launcher does some modular/adaptive stuff, but within a much more limited scope. quote:and then spits out the completed raws for your to copy/paste But what happens if the working environment is already modded? Does the tool attempt to spit out a file which is compatible with everything (and if so - how do you deal with all of the bullshit mentioned above)? Or does it simply spit out a vanilla-compatible file which breaks half of the existing mods and therefore causes the game to crash during worldgen?
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May 21, 2015 05:24
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Ok, so it's clear I'm in way over my head. I'll save this kind of stuff for after I have a CS degree or something...
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May 21, 2015 05:30
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Dungeon Ecology posted:Ok, so it's clear I'm in way over my head. I'll save this kind of stuff for after I have a CS degree or something... Nah, I'd say go for it. Sure, if you're looking to create a mod generator or merge mods together or mess around with the code during runtime (like dfhack does), you're gonna need some significant computer science ability. But if you're just looking to mod your own vanilla installation, you can definitely get by with little/no CS knowledge. This seems like a pretty good place to start. Give it a shot, change a few raw files. Even if you don't make anything perfectly functional it can still be a lot of fun.
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May 21, 2015 08:24
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Yeah the token/raw modding is very simple stuff. The only CS sort of knowledge that helps there is just understanding how the logic flows and handling pre-requisites, in the sense that you don't do things like define the color of a creatures blood before you give the creature blood or trying to define preferred civ enviroment after stating the [POSITION] or whatever token that makes DF try to set up noble positions. Pretty sane for the most part. Its also very polite in that its hard to break and if it does break it spits out stuff in errorlog.txt that tells you pretty straight what is causing a problem. Making stuff for DFhack is harder but I haven't really bothered aside from reading masterwork raw files (which are often just formatted really stupidly/spitefully).
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May 21, 2015 08:57
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Moridin920 posted:What do you mean I can't have thirty thousand celery stalks Im not familiar with what actual models, but some older intel chips were taken above the 5ghz mark (without lN2 bullshit). Devils Canyon basically only exists because of how poorly Haswell overclocked and can hit about... 5ghz. Tomorrow I'll try to remember do dig up some stuff and see what single and dual cores had obscenely high sustainables (with a little finickery) Not including things like power consumption here. *Numbers may or may not be pulled out of my rear end because I'm falling asleep. Will edit with actual values later. Gibbo fucked around with this message at 09:22 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 09:19
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If you just want to make a new creature or civilization or reaction (turn something into some other thing at a workshop), or syndrome (make something bad happen when you get bit by that monster), that all isn't too difficult. Tedious and time-consuming, yes, but you don't need to have any programming knowledge to do it. If you want to do hacky stuff like allow invaders to dig through walls or something, may god help your soul.
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May 21, 2015 14:26
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Tiler Kiwi posted:Making stuff for DFhack is harder but I haven't really bothered aside from reading masterwork raw files (which are often just formatted really stupidly/spitefully). A lot of it has to do with the big selection UI. The hooks it needs have to be written directly into the raws, making them a bitch to read.
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May 21, 2015 14:44
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Haifisch posted:I think a lot of it is tied into how much stuff you get in an established fort. More animals, more items(especially more more clothes andXclothesX), more dwarves, more dug out tiles, more historical events to track*...I feel like updating the pathfinding code would help a lot, as would some less intensive way of tracking items. I think a big part of the "too much stuff" problem is also how many different kinds of stuff that you eventually accumulate. IIRC, you can have two functionally identical sets of wool shirts, but if one shirt is made of sheep wool and the other is made of troll wool, they have to be tracked as two complete different items, even if the statistical difference is utterly negligible. I honestly believe that Toady should make an attempt to really simplify the thousand and one different kinds of materials into simple "Wood", "Leather", and "Cloth" resources. Or at the very least, do it by dividing them into Low-Quality, Average-Quality, and High-Quality versions if you really want to keep an eye on the difference between lovely cheap wood or first-rate quality timber, just so long as it's a difference that actually matters. Seriously, nobody gives a poo poo about what particular race of a species that a piece of leather is made from. The only variations that Dwarf Fortress should be tracking are the ones that would actually affect a player's decision or can actually change poo poo in world gen history, because continuing to track trivial stuff isn't really viable if you also want the game to remain playable, especially once Toady starts to try his hand at more advanced item tracking.
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May 21, 2015 15:36
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VerdantSquire posted:I think a big part of the "too much stuff" problem is also how many different kinds of stuff that you eventually accumulate. IIRC, you can have two functionally identical sets of wool shirts, but if one shirt is made of sheep wool and the other is made of troll wool, they have to be tracked as two complete different items, even if the statistical difference is utterly negligible. I honestly believe that Toady should make an attempt to really simplify the thousand and one different kinds of materials into simple "Wood", "Leather", and "Cloth" resources. Or at the very least, do it by dividing them into Low-Quality, Average-Quality, and High-Quality versions if you really want to keep an eye on the difference between lovely cheap wood or first-rate quality timber, just so long as it's a difference that actually matters. Seriously, nobody gives a poo poo about what particular race of a species that a piece of leather is made from. The only variations that Dwarf Fortress should be tracking are the ones that would actually affect a player's decision or can actually change poo poo in world gen history, because continuing to track trivial stuff isn't really viable if you also want the game to remain playable, especially once Toady starts to try his hand at more advanced item tracking. I'm pretty sure this is fundamentally opposed to the core vision of Dwarf Fortress, said vision being "We always need more stuff"
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May 21, 2015 16:07
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Yeah, this game is a story telling system. Its about the autistic details.
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May 21, 2015 16:08
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VerdantSquire posted:Seriously, nobody gives a poo poo about what particular race of a species that a piece of leather is made from. ... I do  I use MW and simplify them more often than not because FPS is more important but if FPS isn't an issue then I'm all about stupid details like that. A dwarf wearing elephant leather armor with some elephant kills is more impressive than a dwarf just wearing leather with some elephant kills.
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May 21, 2015 19:12
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besides eventually you might want to add cultural weight to this kind of stuff. A system where a population of dwarfs are overall happier with ostrich leather items instead of lizard leather items would be much better than a specific dwarf liking a specific item or material like it is done today.
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May 21, 2015 19:29
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scamtank posted:A lot of it has to do with the big selection UI. The hooks it needs have to be written directly into the raws, making them a bitch to read. Well there's that and a hatred for white space in some of the files.
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May 21, 2015 19:31
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I found a waterfall embark.  7 z-level drop. Anyone have examples or ideas for designing a fort around a waterfall?
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May 22, 2015 03:55
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build a statue garden around the waterfall, I did an artificial one once, good for happiness and avoid cave adaptation
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May 22, 2015 04:10
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I love building at waterfall embarks, and they're pretty easy to find if you know what to look for. Basically just look for where a smaller river empties into a larger one, and if that's near a mountain range, you've pretty much found a waterfall. I found a sweet waterfall embark where I was able to build the entrance to my fort right next to the crest of the waterfall, which mean happy thoughts for any dwarves entering or exiting the fort. Advice, build a bunch of bridges that span the gaps in the chasm.
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May 22, 2015 04:21
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Build windows all around the bottom of the waterfall and put your dining room in there. Then throw goblins from the top whilst everybody watches.
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May 22, 2015 11:37
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Looking at two months of vacation. I last played this game over a year ago and I am thinking of getting back into it for some hard core sperging. Have there been any fundamental changes? Did he ever make military less of a nightmare? Before when i tried to figure it out, I got to the point where I just said gently caress it and put lots of traps down.
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May 22, 2015 13:42
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No, military is more or less the same thing. It's kind of though to get used to but after you make your second patrol schedule that actually work it's fairly easy to do it again.
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May 22, 2015 13:50
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Did you quit before or after the 2014 major release came out? It added a crapton of new stuff, but all the updates since then have been mostly bug fixing and tweaking the behavior systems and such.
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May 22, 2015 13:52
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Had the weirdest bug - I prepared some bedrooms in planning mode, the usual with bed + cabinet + stone coffer + door... and the dwarves built about 15 of them using iron furniture. Iron furniture that I didn't have stored anywhere nor had built or ordered built at all. Bet the occupants were happy at least.
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May 22, 2015 14:00
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GenericOverusedName posted:Did you quit before or after the 2014 major release came out? It added a crapton of new stuff, but all the updates since then have been mostly bug fixing and tweaking the behavior systems and such. Before I think. I guess I am going to have to wade through the wiki or something.
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May 22, 2015 14:22
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The Dregs posted:Looking at two months of vacation. I last played this game over a year ago and I am thinking of getting back into it for some hard core sperging. Have there been any fundamental changes? Did he ever make military less of a nightmare? Before when i tried to figure it out, I got to the point where I just said gently caress it and put lots of traps down. Let me think... the framerate got tanked by the world being simulated during gameplay, you can now retire and reclaim living forts, the dwarf description screen blew up to like triple length with dreams and values and the new thoughts, combat makes a little more sense with morale and things eventually going splat if pounded with enough blunt force, three-dimensional minecraft trees with harvestable fruit along with an everloving shitload of new plants,  , gelding and mining priority orders and all the adventure mode poo poo and and and and.Just generate Small worlds with only 300-400 years of history and your FPS won't be completely ruined, you'll see the rest as you go. scamtank fucked around with this message at 14:53 on May 22, 2015 |
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May 22, 2015 14:49
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An update, via Bay 12 Games' Patreon:Bay 12 Games posted:The development log at http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves is still the place to read about progress toward the next Dwarf Fortress release, but we thought we'd post here sometimes as well, especially since a few of the new patrons might not even know about the dev log. This month, we watched animal people leave the wilderness to take a more active role in the world, and we've seen visitors of various kinds arrive at the fort and socialize with the dwarves (or get in trouble with the law). The guests can make petitions for long-term employment, although they can have some difficulty adjusting due to differing cultural values. Now we're working on occupations associated to the new taverns, libraries and temples, such as tavern keepers and scribes. The immediate project is adding settings that allow, for example, mugs and writing materials to be kept on hand without having to fiddle directly with stockpiles (more or less like hospitals).
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May 23, 2015 00:51
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Faithless posted:Build windows all around the bottom of the waterfall and put your dining room in there. Then throw goblins from the top whilst everybody watches. Windows block mist though. Dwarfs get the happy feeling from the mist. If it is close enough to be in the mist zone you are better off with fortifications than windows.
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May 23, 2015 00:56
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Just build your entrance behind the waterfall with a walled walkway and a bunch of grates
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May 23, 2015 06:37
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FutonForensic posted:Anyone have examples or ideas for designing a fort around a waterfall? Dig down to magma and pump it to the surface and pave over it to save yourself from the anguish of decimal FPS.
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May 23, 2015 07:33
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Build the entrance behind the waterfall and two drawbridges: one above the entrance and the other to enable access to the entrance normally. Link a lever to both so when you pull it, the bridge above will create a roof that will make the water fall around the entrance path.
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May 23, 2015 14:40
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BANG BANG BANG OPEN UP THIS IS THE TOAD POLICEToady One posted:I've been doing the particulars of the scholar occupation in the fort over the last few days, mostly making sure it plays nice with world generation and that everything advances at roughly the same rate. This means that having one random dwarf assigned to the library with no skills might not advance the state of the world's knowledge even after years of confused research (as I did with my miner, who immediately started pondering whether probing would make a good surgical technique). You can make quite a bit of progress if you attract some dedicated scholars and support them with your own scholars and scribes, probably more than any world generation site over the same number of years since you can expend all your effort toward the work, but it still takes time. Depending on how gregarious they are, scholars will tend toward discussing their topic with other researchers or working by themselves. Scholars will read books that you have on hand to avoid duplicating results, though I haven't yet duplicated the master-apprentice model from world gen (I'll probably have time to do something simple there), and they can commit their results to writing (which the scribes will then copy). No fooling, this is neat and rad as all hell.
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May 24, 2015 10:46
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Whoa, when did he set up a Patreon, this is what I get for not following the thread/updates for a year! Time to go throw money at him! Have there been any actual releases lately? I'm guessing no... Edit: Scrolling up, maybe!
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May 24, 2015 11:01
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Is toady planning to add tech trees like Civ or something?
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May 24, 2015 11:06
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Start a fort. Retire the fort. Send an adventurer out to loot all the libraries in the world, bring them back to the fort. Profit.
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May 24, 2015 11:07
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Helical Nightmares posted:Is toady planning to add tech trees like Civ or something? At the moment, no. All the technology development is just flavour setting for now. It might affect some of the tools civs have available down the line, similar to how animal training is, but I don't think he wants to restrict the things you can do with your fortress very much. If nothing else you'd probably want to be able to continue advancing world gen for a century or two before making such a thing important; it'd suck to start a fort just to realise no one in your world has invented steel or the archimedean screw yet.
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May 24, 2015 11:38
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Since a couple of days my windowed mode of DF is offcentered by a line at the top, so the bottom text is cut off. It doesn't happen in full screen but just windowed mode, any reason why this would happen? Tried to mess with resolution of windowed in the .ini but no luck. E: seems to be a problem with TWBT, going truetype solves this. Weird. What it looks like (you can see the black line up top, and the cutoff of the bottom bar): 
canepazzo fucked around with this message at 12:16 on May 24, 2015 |
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May 24, 2015 11:44
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scamtank posted:BANG BANG BANG OPEN UP THIS IS THE TOAD POLICE "Surgery is basically just like mining, right?"
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May 24, 2015 15:28
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You have struck cystic pus!
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May 24, 2015 15:47
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