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nickutz
Feb 3, 2004

Put blue and red chicken in mouth plz
Occasionally the gift cards will go on sale. You can get some $25 value cards for $20 cash back.

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baram.
Oct 23, 2007

smooth.


Also the Amazon Store Card that offers 5% back is not a standard credit card, it's solely a credit account with Amazon. As stated earlier the 5% back is only if you're the primary account holder of Amazon Prime, which is $99/year but you can add up to 4 people under you to split the cost.

The Amazon Rewards Card backed by Chase is 3% back on Amazon but is a generic Visa you can use anywhere.

3% Amazon, 2% at gas stations, restaurants, and drug stores, 1% back elsewhere.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

TraderStav posted:

So it appears that the most efficient fee-free method to manufactured spending now is the following:

Step 1 Order American Express Business Gift Cards through Cashback Portal (LuckyShops.com, ie.) and earn 2% on the order, while paying $3.95 per card up to $3K each
Step 2 Purchase Vanilla Gift Cards (CVS/Walgreens?) with AGCs (do all places take CC?)
Step 3 Load Redbirds with Vanilla Gift Cards as debit
Step 4 Withdraw funds back to bank account as before

Not the worst thing in the world except that if done in $500 increments I've doubled the number of swipes that I need to do at Target, but apparently you can do two per transaction so there's that. I'm going to run some experiments to see. I have $3500 in open Redbird loading for May with plenty of time. Going to first see if my local CVS/Walgreens has the $500 Vanilla GCs and if they will allow me to purchase with my SPG Amex. Using this method you actually can make ~$80-$150 a month depending on how many Redbirds you're loading.

Completed a full cycle, here's what I have found.

Step 1: The portals change value so you may need to switch. Bookmark https://www.cashbackmonitor.com and see which has the best payout. I originally got 2% but only got 1.5% on this most recent transaction. When you get to the page, go down and select 'Other Cards' and then Custom under the business header so that you can personalize the card. Put your name on it, Walgreens gave me a hard time yesterday but CVS didn't. I think this'll get ahead of a lot of issues. Remember that cards over $2k do not get cashback! Which I thought I was being clever by adding the VGC fee amount to it ($19.80) and forgot about the $2k limit. Now I cannot cancel the card so... oh well.

Step 2: As I mentioned above, Walgreens gave me gruff about purchasing the VGC with an AGC that didn't have a name on it. Get it personalized and you should be fine.

Step 3/4: No problems here!

Cacafuego
Jul 22, 2007

As with all rumors, won't know until it happens, but lol if target stops taking GC for redcards on Friday as rumored on FT. You may want to liquidate those GCs quick.

I was faithful to serve, don't break my kates

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

Cacafuego posted:

As with all rumors, won't know until it happens, but lol if target stops taking GC for redcards on Friday as rumored on FT. You may want to liquidate those GCs quick.

I was faithful to serve, don't break my kates

I don't believe that rumor, but even if so I never get locked up with so many funds that I don't have a way to liquidate/spend. I have a lot of projects this summer that I could use the GCs on or just purchase Amazon ones to throw on and draw from over time. You won't find me sitting with 20k in AGCs like some guys.

Plus, there's always Bluebird.

edit: Also, I travel a decent bit for work and wouldn't be much of a thing to use the GCs for expenses and submit my expense report for reimbursement in my paycheck.

emocrat
Feb 28, 2007
Sidewalk Technology
Anyone have experience with the Citi Double Cash card? Specifically I am wondering about the lag time in being granted the extra 1%. Does it generally always run 2+ months behind, or is that just the first bill cycle?

Fluue
Jan 2, 2008
Been thinking about getting another rewards card and need some pointers on which card to get: Sallie Mae or Discover It. I currently have a card with no rewards (was my first credit card) from BofA and a Chase Freedom card. I've been eyeing the Sallie Mae card because my grocery and gas spending adds up to ~$250 per month, so I'd be maximizing those rewards. The Discover It card seems pretty similar to Chase Freedom, and the main downside would be if the two cards have overlapping 5% categories. The Discover 'perks' seem nice, though (even if they are just fluff).

Anyone have opinions on either card?

Disco Salmon
Jun 19, 2004

Fluue posted:

Been thinking about getting another rewards card and need some pointers on which card to get: Sallie Mae or Discover It. I currently have a card with no rewards (was my first credit card) from BofA and a Chase Freedom card. I've been eyeing the Sallie Mae card because my grocery and gas spending adds up to ~$250 per month, so I'd be maximizing those rewards. The Discover It card seems pretty similar to Chase Freedom, and the main downside would be if the two cards have overlapping 5% categories. The Discover 'perks' seem nice, though (even if they are just fluff).

Anyone have opinions on either card?

Well not that it helps any since I JUST got it...but the Freedom card is rather nice. We got the Sapphire Pref. with it, and all the points from Freedom can move over there for travel goodies. So, that is one of the reasons I liked it. The other reason we went with Freedom over Discover is that not everywhere takes Discover. For us, the fact that we most likely would not have to worry about the Freedom being accepted because it is a Visa outweighed the other.

The SallieMae card tho...I love it. 5% off groceries up to $250, and 5% off gas to $250, and it works on most Amazon stuff for us. So for us it was a no brainer. We each got a card to maximize the groceries, and when the Freedom choices come around for groceries we will use that card then and give SM a break.

THF13
Sep 26, 2007

Keep an adversary in the dark about what you're capable of, and he has to assume the worst.
For the Sallie Mae Card the Gas and Groceries are separate categories each with their own independent $250 limit. Discover is a decent card but if are just looking at rewards it probably makes sense to wait until it offers a signup bonus. They have offered $100 and $150 for pretty low amounts of spending in the past.

JibbaJabberwocky
Aug 14, 2010

I hope it's okay to ask a basic credit card question here. I have never owned a credit card but I'm pretty old now so it's probably time I start. My husband has a card with his bank but he'll be switching to my bank soon and we'll both need new credit cards.

What I want is a card that will not charge me annual fees or any APR on purchases I pay off right away. However it seems like every card I find starts out with 0% APR then it skyrockets after a set period. I plan to use my card to purchase small things and pay them off each month to build credit, so I don't want to pay for each transaction if this is a thing that is possible. Does anyone know a card like that?

FunOne
Aug 20, 2000
I am a slimey vat of concentrated stupidity

Fun Shoe

JibbaJabberwocky posted:

What I want is a card that will not charge me annual fees or any APR on purchases I pay off right away.

With the exception of a handful of truly horrible cards, all credit cards are interest fee if you always pay the full balance by the due date. If you carry anything from month to month then they'll charge you interest on what you carry and potentially as well on any new purchases until you're back into the "paid in full" category. Cash advances and what not are DIFFERENT, this only applies to purchases.


So, buy what you want within reason, get your bill, pay the full amount on the bill by the due date, never pay interest. That easy. Don't do cash advances or balance transfers or buy monetary instruments with the card.

100% Dundee
Oct 11, 2004

JibbaJabberwocky posted:

I hope it's okay to ask a basic credit card question here. I have never owned a credit card but I'm pretty old now so it's probably time I start. My husband has a card with his bank but he'll be switching to my bank soon and we'll both need new credit cards.

What I want is a card that will not charge me annual fees or any APR on purchases I pay off right away. However it seems like every card I find starts out with 0% APR then it skyrockets after a set period. I plan to use my card to purchase small things and pay them off each month to build credit, so I don't want to pay for each transaction if this is a thing that is possible. Does anyone know a card like that?

As long as you pay it off every month, you will never be charged interest at all. You only get charged interest on outstanding balances, meaning stuff that you didn't pay off. This is how credit cards companies earn their money(along with fees/etc) so it would make no sense for them to have a credit card that never accrues interest. What you are referring to in regards to the 0% APR then it skyrockets is an introductory period, almost all credit cards have those these days because they want you to get the card, rack up a bunch of stuff on it and then forget about paying it because there's no interest. Once the introductory period runs out they slap you with a bunch of interest charges and you're stuck having to pay it back.

Again, you will not have to worry about any of this if you just simply pay the bill off, entirely, every month.

JibbaJabberwocky
Aug 14, 2010

FunOne posted:

With the exception of a handful of truly horrible cards, all credit cards are interest fee if you always pay the full balance by the due date. If you carry anything from month to month then they'll charge you interest on what you carry and potentially as well on any new purchases until you're back into the "paid in full" category. Cash advances and what not are DIFFERENT, this only applies to purchases.


So, buy what you want within reason, get your bill, pay the full amount on the bill by the due date, never pay interest. That easy. Don't do cash advances or balance transfers or buy monetary instruments with the card.

Wellp now I feel like an idiot. I tried to do research before I came here to post questions but apparently I failed. I also have no idea which card I should pick because I have no idea if I even have a credit score. I've tried to get my report but each time they ask me to verify questions and ask me about accounts I opened or other stuff like that but I've done nothing like that. It feels like they're asking me about places and things my parents/husbands parents have lived in or signed up for. Or maybe things they did in my husbands name? I have no idea. So of course I have no clue what the answers to all the questions are and it denies me. Really frustrating.

I guess that means I should get Capital One Secured Mastercard and assume I have poo poo credit since I've never had a credit card? My husband has had a few so he might go for a different Capital One card than me. However IDK what his credit is either or how he can check if its asking us for stuff our parents did.

100% Dundee
Oct 11, 2004

JibbaJabberwocky posted:

Wellp now I feel like an idiot. I tried to do research before I came here to post questions but apparently I failed. I also have no idea which card I should pick because I have no idea if I even have a credit score. I've tried to get my report but each time they ask me to verify questions and ask me about accounts I opened or other stuff like that but I've done nothing like that. It feels like they're asking me about places and things my parents/husbands parents have lived in or signed up for. Or maybe things they did in my husbands name? I have no idea. So of course I have no clue what the answers to all the questions are and it denies me. Really frustrating.

I guess that means I should get Capital One Secured Mastercard and assume I have poo poo credit since I've never had a credit card? My husband has had a few so he might go for a different Capital One card than me. However IDK what his credit is either or how he can check if its asking us for stuff our parents did.

If you have your name on a car loan, cell phone bill, credit card by another family member(parent/husband/etc) then you very likely might already have some form of credit. You might be best served by going to the bank you already have your account open with and just asking them if they have any credit card offers available for you. You likely will not get anything with awesome rewards or a great APR yet, but its an easy way to get started without having to go the Secured Credit Card route. You already have a history with them, you already have an account with them so they will be much more lenient with you.

If you end up getting a capital one card, you can check your credit score on their mobile app anytime you want without having to hassle with all those questions and stuff you mentioned above. It might not be as accurate or up to date(mine takes a month or two to update sometimes) but its better than nothing and its free/easy/quick. A few other cards do this as well, my Discover card sends me my credit score on the bill every month for instance.

THF13
Sep 26, 2007

Keep an adversary in the dark about what you're capable of, and he has to assume the worst.
A couple of things. The best place to get your credit reports are from annualcreditreport.com. You can by law get a free copy of your credit report from each credit reporting bureau once a year. They do ask questions to verify your identity but they will often be nonsense questions to which the correct answer is something like "none of the above". If you have no credit history at all though you simply won't have a credit report though.

Your husband does not necessarily need to switch credit cards when he switches banks. There's only a handful of cards that give you a bonus for banking with them. You will be able to pay any credit card bill from a checking account at any US bank without any problems.

You can also see if you can be added to your husband's credit card, either as a joint account holder or an authorized user which will allow you to establish your own credit history.

the worst thing is
Oct 3, 2013

by FactsAreUseless
Credit card companies don't just make money with interest/fees wtf..the company or issuing bank makes most off the merchant or "swipe fee" (1-3% per transaction). Some of you people think you're borrowing money for free? Well you are, but someone's paying..

The Slack Lagoon
Jun 17, 2008



Fluue posted:

Been thinking about getting another rewards card and need some pointers on which card to get: Sallie Mae or Discover It. I currently have a card with no rewards (was my first credit card) from BofA and a Chase Freedom card. I've been eyeing the Sallie Mae card because my grocery and gas spending adds up to ~$250 per month, so I'd be maximizing those rewards. The Discover It card seems pretty similar to Chase Freedom, and the main downside would be if the two cards have overlapping 5% categories. The Discover 'perks' seem nice, though (even if they are just fluff).

Anyone have opinions on either card?


I have the Sallie Mae and Discover IT. The 5% back for the SM also works at Amazon if you buy physical goods. Discover has been great, and if I've ever had an issue it gets resolved very quickly - and it's nice have someone answer the phone that speaks understandable English.

I think between the two it comes down to: would you rather always have 5% in a useful category or do you want to take a chance that not all the time it's that useful? Right now Discover is 5% restaurants, which to me isn't all that great.

JibbaJabberwocky
Aug 14, 2010

THF13 posted:

A couple of things. The best place to get your credit reports are from annualcreditreport.com. You can by law get a free copy of your credit report from each credit reporting bureau once a year. They do ask questions to verify your identity but they will often be nonsense questions to which the correct answer is something like "none of the above". If you have no credit history at all though you simply won't have a credit report though.

Your husband does not necessarily need to switch credit cards when he switches banks. There's only a handful of cards that give you a bonus for banking with them. You will be able to pay any credit card bill from a checking account at any US bank without any problems.

You can also see if you can be added to your husband's credit card, either as a joint account holder or an authorized user which will allow you to establish your own credit history.

I did the annual credit report thing last year after I got added to my husband's AmEx that his parents got him for emergencies and I did have a report. However I can't seem to answer the reports right for either of the remaining two companies and it wont let me in. The bills in our house are all under my name, but my maiden name, so that may be why nothing shows up? I'm not really sure how it works.

In retrospect, I may just get a card with my bank since my research indicates that I'd have to put a security deposit down on a Secured card and that's some bullshit. I think it would be fairly easy to have me added to my husband's Suntrust visa if they don't mind that he's going to stop banking with them. However my bank is a much smaller one and I think they might give us a better deal but that'll be something to look in to at a later date.

WarMECH
Dec 23, 2004
If the bills and other accounts are in your maiden name then try to get your CR using that name? I think you should really get this straightened out and find a way to get a copy of your CR, even if it involves calling them up or submitting the request in writing. Applying for more credit isn't going to fix your problem with being unable to access your CR now.

Can you have your husband sit with you when you answer the questions it asks? Maybe they are loans or accounts that are in his name and why you don't recognize them. Or maybe some of the questions are just dummy examples that you just need to answer that you don't recognize them (they do this a lot).


EDIT: also find out which accounts are still listed in your maiden name that are still open and update them to your married name.

100% Dundee
Oct 11, 2004

Tautologicus posted:

Credit card companies don't just make money with interest/fees wtf..the company or issuing bank makes most off the merchant or "swipe fee" (1-3% per transaction). Some of you people think you're borrowing money for free? Well you are, but someone's paying..

So how exactly does a "swipe fee" for the merchant not fall into the category of "fees"? And unfortunately, you still aren't borrowing money for free. Any smart retailer that accepts credit cards factors these fees into their pricing, so you're paying for it regardless of what method of payment you use. If they were a cash only establishment and they sold something for $1, once they start accepting credit cards that price will likely jump to $1.05 or so. If you pay cash, they earned an extra few percent because they don't have to pay the fee, if you're paying with CC then they might break even. Regardless, you are still paying for the privilege of being able to swipe a card. With a good cashback card you might end up breaking even, probably not though.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams
Cash is not "free" for the merchant to process. It has to be counted, taking up staff time. Human error and theft can cause cash to "shrink." Cash has to be physically delivered to a bank somehow, either by paying a service to pick it up, or paying employees to leave the premises and deposit the cash (and that invites danger on these employees, they make good targets for theft). People also, I think, tend to spend more on credit cards.

So basically I'm tired of this "hurf durf cash is free you're paying for credit with higher costs" bullshit.

100% Dundee
Oct 11, 2004

FISHMANPET posted:

So basically I'm tired of this "hurf durf cash is free you're paying for credit with higher costs" bullshit.

I don't think anyone was implying or under the impression that cash was free to process, not sure how you got on that rant. It's just simply more expensive to process credit card transactions so businesses typically account for it in their pricing.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

100% Dundee posted:

So how exactly does a "swipe fee" for the merchant not fall into the category of "fees"? And unfortunately, you still aren't borrowing money for free. Any smart retailer that accepts credit cards factors these fees into their pricing, so you're paying for it regardless of what method of payment you use. If they were a cash only establishment and they sold something for $1, once they start accepting credit cards that price will likely jump to $1.05 or so. If you pay cash, they earned an extra few percent because they don't have to pay the fee, if you're paying with CC then they might break even. Regardless, you are still paying for the privilege of being able to swipe a card. With a good cashback card you might end up breaking even, probably not though.

Nah, that's not how pricing works for most things. They charge what the market will bear, not item cost + fees + [predetermined profit margin]. For most places, swipe fees are just another business expense unless they're selling something really small.

antisocial86
Dec 8, 2003
yes sirs
I have kind of a weird question. I'm away frequently from my girlfriend who I help out with money and I have a chase freedom account that says I can add a cardholder. The thing is my girlfriend is on welfare and has some custody issues with her kids that we're working through.

I want to give her her own card with her name on it so she can use it for groceries and stuff, but I don't want it affecting any of her welfare or anything at all. The cardholder just asks for a name I believe so I don't think it would be used against her but I'm not sure, anyone have any ideas?

Edit: I guess what I'm asking is is there a way for her to have a card in her name tied to my account that won't mess with her credit history or anything.

Blinkman987
Jul 10, 2008

Gender roles guilt me into being fat.

antisocial86 posted:

I have kind of a weird question. I'm away frequently from my girlfriend who I help out with money and I have a chase freedom account that says I can add a cardholder. The thing is my girlfriend is on welfare and has some custody issues with her kids that we're working through.

I want to give her her own card with her name on it so she can use it for groceries and stuff, but I don't want it affecting any of her welfare or anything at all. The cardholder just asks for a name I believe so I don't think it would be used against her but I'm not sure, anyone have any ideas?

Edit: I guess what I'm asking is is there a way for her to have a card in her name tied to my account that won't mess with her credit history or anything.

Target Redbird Prepaid can behave like this. Basically, you can create sub-accounts where you would deposit $500 on the card, and then she could her card like a debit/atm card for $500. I'm not educated enough to know whether or not it hits the credit report. Doesn't seem like it should since one of the use cases it gives is to give it to a nanny for incidental costs.

I've given a name for my Chase card as most of the sign-up bonuses include an extra bonus for adding an authorized user. I've always given them a deceased family member's name. They've never asked for a SSN. I also don't know what happens if they can connect that name to someone who is actually known to me.

Blinkman987 fucked around with this message at 00:04 on May 19, 2015

antisocial86
Dec 8, 2003
yes sirs
I should have mentioned I already have a bluebird card that I use to help her out and a couple family members, the debit reload caps at a grand a month so it works great but I want another method too which is why I was hoping my chase freedom card would help.

becoming
Aug 25, 2004

antisocial86 posted:

I should have mentioned I already have a bluebird card that I use to help her out and a couple family members, the debit reload caps at a grand a month so it works great but I want another method too which is why I was hoping my chase freedom card would help.

Freedom will be fine. You're not giving her SSN. The only credit report it will get tied to is yours.

On the downside, be sure you trust her - she will have access to your full line of credit on the Freedom. AmEx can set limits per card, but Chase offers no way to do this (at least not with Freedom or Sapphire Preferred).

Hashtag Banterzone
Dec 8, 2005


Lifetime Winner of the willkill4food Honorary Bad Posting Award in PWM
I think you can setup text or email alerts for when her card gets used with Chase. I would recommend something like that, at the very least to give you quicker notice in case it gets stolen.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007
With my last round of applications, I took out 2 CC's and canceled one of the old ones, with another just auto-cancelling after me not using it for ages. Since then, my credit score's dropped about 40 points, from low 800's down to 765. I've got zero debt (mortgage or otherwise) or history of debt, always been on time with payments, etc.

I've got a sweet MS situation where I can pay my overseas university tuition by credit card without incurring any additional fees (well, paying all that money for tuition out of savings isn't sweet, but I'm trying to make lemonade here), deciding if it's worth it for next semester. I am leaning towards "yes", as I no longer live in the US so my credit score there is kind of immaterial, but OTOH I've already taken advantage of the AA, BA, and US Airways/United signup bonuses, and my remaining options are less lucrative (uni doesn't take Discover/Amex, so I'm limited to Visa/MC). It's possible something better might come along when tuition's due again next year, but then I'd be stuck with a probably-too-low credit score if I took advantage of the deals I was less jazzed about now. I should say that I'm really only interested in airline miles here.

I'm thinking I should probably just go for it as a "better the bird in the hand..." thing, plus I imagine that the worst of the damage to my (probably irrelevant) credit score has probably been done. Not that I won't take a hit getting another card or two, but there's only so much one aspect of your history can bring you down.

Also wondering if the credit score drop could be due to a drop in income (do credit agencies have access to tax returns?). I used to be working a salaried, lower middle class job, but quit to go back to school and have been unemployed for the last ~10 months. If I do find any work before graduation at the end of next year, it'll be part-time (thanks, student visa) and probably low-skilled/low-paid.

becoming
Aug 25, 2004

Pompous Rhombus posted:

Also wondering if the credit score drop could be due to a drop in income (do credit agencies have access to tax returns?). I used to be working a salaried, lower middle class job, but quit to go back to school and have been unemployed for the last ~10 months. If I do find any work before graduation at the end of next year, it'll be part-time (thanks, student visa) and probably low-skilled/low-paid.

Nope, nothing to do with income. It's because your average age of accounts went down and your number of inquiries went up. It will right itself in a while. AAoA is probably the big ding.

Barry
Aug 1, 2003

Hardened Criminal
If you have no interest in hotels points, get some Alaska Airlines card(s) or something that you can transfer with like CSP.

http://www.doctorofcredit.com/working-application-link-for-alaska-airlines-25000-100-offer/

e: Or the Chase Southwest cards, they're at 50k now.

Barry fucked around with this message at 18:54 on May 22, 2015

fruit loop
Apr 25, 2015
Got an American Express green card offer in the mail. I generally want to have several credit cards for the boost to my credit score, but

1. This one has an annual fee and apparently lovely rewards
2. It has no official maximum credit line, so it won't even boost my score AFAIK.

So I pass. Sound good?

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

fruit loop posted:

Got an American Express green card offer in the mail. I generally want to have several credit cards for the boost to my credit score, but

1. This one has an annual fee and apparently lovely rewards
2. It has no official maximum credit line, so it won't even boost my score AFAIK.

So I pass. Sound good?

Green card is a waste; if you want an amex charge card, get the PRG and the 50K bonus membership rewards points.

Cacafuego
Jul 22, 2007

I applied for the BofA Alaska air card, instant approval for $14k. Applied immediately after that one for a targeted BofA cash back card to combine hard pulls, it basically said "unable to complete at this time, wait 30 days for a response".

I called, 1st CSR said I have to wait. Called again 2nd said essentially same thing, but that it was approved, they're just waiting to determine a credit line.

Called today in business hours, approved with split credit limit $5k from Alaska air card to the second card, no other questions. Will the hard pulls still be combined?

triple sulk
Sep 17, 2014



https://twitter.com/Discover/status/605463775215534081

Discover is doing a 2x on all cash back over a 12 month span (given at the end, from what I understand) if you contact them and ask about the promotion. That will effectively make all Amazon purchases 10% cash back for the next quarter.

Blinkman987
Jul 10, 2008

Gender roles guilt me into being fat.
I'm booking about $3,600 in SPG hotel stays. 30k sign-up bonus please come asap.

hbf
Jul 26, 2003
No Dice.
Just got approved for a cap1 quicksilver I need to take on a trip to avoid fees. Do they usually take the full 10 days to get you the card?

TastyLemonDrops
Aug 6, 2008

you said "drop kick" fyi
I've got this referral thing from Chase Freedom that gives me $50 per person who signs up for and uses the card, and $200 for $500 spent for the applicant. There's no catch, is there?

extravadanza
Oct 19, 2007

TastyLemonDrops posted:

I've got this referral thing from Chase Freedom that gives me $50 per person who signs up for and uses the card, and $200 for $500 spent for the applicant. There's no catch, is there?

No catch. I was the 'referral' for my wife and we both got the bonus.

Sometimes there might be better perks available for the applicant than the $200 for $500 spend, but if you don't care about them maximizing their bonus, go for it.

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Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

extravadanza posted:

No catch. I was the 'referral' for my wife and we both got the bonus.

Sometimes there might be better perks available for the applicant than the $200 for $500 spend, but if you don't care about them maximizing their bonus, go for it.

I don't think there has ever been a better deal than 20K on the Freedom.

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