|
Agrajag posted:It is almost guaranteed that most, if not all of them, will go free precisely for that reason. It's hard to tell who's joking and who's just really stupid. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 23:31 on May 23, 2015 |
#
?
May 23, 2015 23:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 17:30 |
|
|
jase1 posted:Don't know if I should post this here or not but here is a live feed of the protests. Oh yeah they'll definitely block Shoreway. During the November protests that drove some people loving nuts, but I don't think any protesters got arrested, so of course they're doing it again (good for them).
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 00:06
|
|
|
Dahn posted:High speed (100+) chase for 23 miles. During chase cops report gunfire coming from the car with no guns. Passenger is seen reloading non existent gun. Cops finally corner car in a parking lot. Dead guy rams cop car to try to break out. 13 cops mag dump into car. 1 Cop (former marine) is a better mag dumper and gets off 49 rounds (I assume 3 mags) in 20 secs, the last 15 into the windshield while standing on the hood of dead guys car. (this tactic is good in Anbar Province, but not so much in Cleveland) Thanks.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 00:30
|
|
|
Powercrazy posted:This is bullshit, you aren't going to fix the culture that causes bad policing simply by paying officers more. The only way to fix it is to hold officers accountable, and enact some kind of RICO act for police officers that forces departments to take an active role in removing "bad apples." Shielding officer wrong-doings should have a more severe penalty then whatever the behavior the officer did. I'm not even upset at most of the bad things police do because in theory they are only a small part of the justice system, but the fact that we only hear about the most egregious is a huge problem. I agree with a culture change being needed, and I think that seems to be happening post-DoJ report (albeit at a glacial pace). I think you'll get there quicker by bringing in higher-quality replacements from the bad apples that you crack down on.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 02:58
|
|
|
http://wtop.com/virginia/2015/05/fredericksburg-police-release-video-of-taser-pepper-spray-incident/ Holy loving poo poo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVqhMCBPq_E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vONyW5Q2zU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAzuklA-yMI Man with a medical emergency gets tazed, pepper sprayed and the police leave him on the ground to be run over by the car they dragged him out of. edit: The officer who deployed the tazer and chemical weapon: quote:"It was dispatched via the radio that citizens reported that the suspect was moving around a lot inside of his vehicle," Jergens said in a statement to the Free Lance-Star. "I believed that the suspect may be looking for a weapon or looking to conceal a weapon based on this information and the fact that he was believed to be fleeing a felony (hit and run of an occupied vehicle)." DARPA fucked around with this message at 05:33 on May 24, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 05:17
|
|
|
DARPA posted:http://wtop.com/virginia/2015/05/fredericksburg-police-release-video-of-taser-pepper-spray-incident/ That was absolutely disgusting. I'd love to hear the opinion of one of our resident cops about it, rather than latching on to the most extreme position espoused recently and generalizing everyone by it. How's Cleveland tonight? Hopefully peaceful and loud.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 06:29
|
|
|
DARPA posted:The officer resigned despite claiming hitler did nothing wrong. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/va-resigns-taser-pepper-spray-stroke-victim-article-1.2232948 Sounds legit. There was at least one other country shooting bullets in Poland, then in France, then in the USSR, so really no one is to blame for anything that happened there.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 06:38
|
|
|
twodot posted:My point here is explicitly that you should not attempt to feel like a winner all the time. If the opposition is right about something, just let them be right about something. Other people will be right from time to time. Arguments are not soldiers, you do not need to attack every argument on the other side, and you don't need to defend every argument on your side. I'm not trying to win/attack anything, I just think his argument is stupid. His strategy is to discredit people so that he can pretend like nothing else they say has any merit. That's stupid. Just because the Hollywood bank robbery might have had the proper police response it does not justify the existence of SWAT teams or their access to military equipment.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 06:59
|
|
|
ElCondemn posted:Just because the Hollywood bank robbery might have had the proper police response it does not justify the existence of SWAT teams or their access to military equipment. Because while it's probably a bit excessive for every town in America to get an M113, I feel like an armored truck or two isn't a crazy thing for a large metro police force to have access to. My objections are generally with abuse on the more mundane fist and boot level.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 07:09
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Do you object to the equipment or the equipment's military nature? I don't think it's an "or" question, I can be both opposed to the equipment itself and the nature. When the day comes that super villains are storming the streets with armored vehicles and rocket launchers... well, even then I still wouldn't want the guy in charge of writing traffic tickets getting involved. It's not a war, I don't want any shoot outs happening in the first place.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 07:15
|
|
|
ElCondemn posted:I don't want any shoot outs happening in the first place.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 07:37
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Do you feel like that is a realistic goal for America? If other first world countries can do it I believe we can make it a reality here too.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 08:30
|
|
|
ElCondemn posted:If other first world countries can do it I believe we can make it a reality here too. Your beliefs are fanciful and dumb. Achieving this would require the total disarmament of the civilian population of the US and of all countries surrounding it and that is never ever EVER going to happen.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 09:19
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:Your beliefs are fanciful and dumb. Achieving this would require the total disarmament of the civilian population of the US and of all countries surrounding it and that is never ever EVER going to happen. Doesn't Canada already have stricter gun control than the US? And doesn't the US manufacture most of the guns that end up in Mexico because it's easier to smuggle them in from our lax-rear end country than to adhere to Mexican regulations on firearms purchase and registration?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 09:26
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:Your beliefs are fanciful and dumb. Achieving this would require the total disarmament of the civilian population of the US and of all countries surrounding it and that is never ever EVER going to happen. Here is a better idea. Even if every man woman and child has an "assault rifle," We should expect the police to be able to enforce the law without escalating every interaction to a life or death situation and without tanks.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 09:40
|
|
|
Dahn posted:High speed (100+) chase for 23 miles. During chase cops report gunfire coming from the car with no guns. Passenger is seen reloading non existent gun. Cops finally corner car in a parking lot. Dead guy rams cop car to try to break out. 13 cops mag dump into car. 1 Cop (former marine) is a better mag dumper and gets off 49 rounds (I assume 3 mags) in 20 secs, the last 15 into the windshield while standing on the hood of dead guys car. (this tactic is good in Anbar Province, but not so much in Cleveland) Okay, wait. So the claim is that he was in fear of his life, therefor he had to jump on the hood of the car to shoot the two, despite 12 or 13 other officers already peppering it with bullets. Did he jump on the car as his colleagues were shooting, potentially putting himself in the line of fire, or did he jump on the car after the others had stopped, pretty much to finish them off execution style?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 09:55
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:Your beliefs are fanciful and dumb. Achieving this would require the total disarmament of the civilian population of the US and of all countries surrounding it and that is never ever EVER going to happen. It is an admirable goal to pursue even if you don't believe it is achievable simply from the positive knock on effects of reducing lethal violence across society. America has a serious cultural problems with police and violence among other things. Achieving this goal may or may not involve disarmament, but it is only one of many tools available if you are willing to use them. Arguing "American exceptionalism" is in no way helpful and exists only as a societal opiate to be used as an excuse to not acknowledge your collective failings let alone attempt to correct them even under so called "Exceptional circumstances".
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 09:59
|
|
|
Taeke posted:Okay, wait. So the claim is that he was in fear of his life, therefor he had to jump on the hood of the car to shoot the two, despite 12 or 13 other officers already peppering it with bullets. Did he jump on the car as his colleagues were shooting, potentially putting himself in the line of fire, or did he jump on the car after the others had stopped, pretty much to finish them off execution style? it sounds like he jumped up during fire cause the judge said he couldn't be blamed for thinking there was still a threat cause his colleagues were still firing. that being said, I can't think of a worse place to be than the hood of a car if you're trying to deal with armed suspects. he'd have absolutely 0 cover and could easily be filled with holes by the occupants (or just loving run over). the ruling is a giant joke
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 11:34
|
|
|
Just curious, theoretically couldn't that Cleveland cop, Michael Brelo, have been found guilty of attempted manslaughter even if the victims may have been dead already when he shot them? (disclaimer: not a law expert or even American)
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 11:38
|
|
|
Condiv posted:it sounds like he jumped up during fire cause the judge said he couldn't be blamed for thinking there was still a threat cause his colleagues were still firing. that being said, I can't think of a worse place to be than the hood of a car if you're trying to deal with armed suspects. he'd have absolutely 0 cover and could easily be filled with holes by the occupants (or just loving run over). So he was in danger of being shot, just from his colleagues?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 11:51
|
|
|
Taeke posted:So he was in danger of being shot, just from his colleagues? This is the statute he was charged with: quote:2903.03 Voluntary manslaughter. If a bunch of other cops are all firing how can you charge one with being in a sudden fit of rage when everyone is firing and in that situation you're trained to also fire?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 12:36
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:This is the statute he was charged with: I'm not interested in rehashing the whole legal discussion. I'm not familiar enough with the US legal system, or even the situation, which is why I asked those questions just to clear something up that was bothering me. I mean, he actively put himself in danger by jumping on the hood of that car, didn't he? Not just in danger from being shot by the people in the car, but also in danger of friendly fire. That seems to go against common sense and even instinct in any situation, and I find it hard to believe that he was trained to do that. It just sounds like some ridiculous action movie scene, you know?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 12:46
|
|
|
Sure, he was an idiot but he's an Iraq veteran and PTSD makes you do weird things. The Cleveland PD was just trying to scape goat him; he wasn't the first to shoot and wasn't the last so just charging him is wrong. Too bad the entire PD can't be charged with murder like in England.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 12:53
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:Your beliefs are fanciful and dumb. Achieving this would require the total disarmament of the civilian population of the US and of all countries surrounding it and that is never ever EVER going to happen. Ok, so America is peaceful because everyone has guns. This is a good thing. However, we can't disarm the cops because everyone has guns, which is a bad thing. Guns aren't the problem, people are. But we can't do anything because everyone already has a gun. The longer this goes on, the more the logic needed to validate your point makes less loving sense.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 13:18
|
|
|
oohhboy posted:It effectively says you can kill someone and get away with it if you dilute responsibility(and keep shooting) in a large enough group, especially when they should have been taken to trial collectively for massive excessive use of force. It shouldn't have mattered whether he fired the killing shot or not, it was his intentions and actions leading up to the shooting that was important. Technically the Judge is correct under your law, but that still doesn't make it less absurd. The judge found the other police were also justified, just not as stupid as Brelo for jumping on the hood, so a mass trial wouldn't have made any difference. So why is the verdict absurd again? Seems like this was the only realistic option. Lemming posted:This is not a good justification for anything!! Useful Distraction posted:Just curious, theoretically couldn't that Cleveland cop, Michael Brelo, have been found guilty of attempted manslaughter even if the victims may have been dead already when he shot them?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 13:27
|
|
|
DARPA posted:http://wtop.com/virginia/2015/05/fredericksburg-police-release-video-of-taser-pepper-spray-incident/ Holy poo poo, listen to the video for these two jems: Washington: "I can't breath." Cop: "That's the point." Cop: "You understand why you gotta get sprayed, you weren't listening to us."
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 14:14
|
|
|
The scary thing about that Virginia footage is I wonder how close those cops were to shooting a bunch of holes in the guy having a stroke. Before I read further and found out what the deal was, the early part of the footage made me think of a guy having a seizure or some kind of medical issue, he just didn't seem to be responsive. The police on the other hand were all "CITIZEN WILL NOT COMPLY YOU HAVE 3 SECONDS TO COMPLY".
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 14:19
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Doesn't Canada already have stricter gun control than the US? And doesn't the US manufacture most of the guns that end up in Mexico because it's easier to smuggle them in from our lax-rear end country than to adhere to Mexican regulations on firearms purchase and registration? In some ways, Canada is more strict in others it isn't. But even if you eliminate guns from the equation Canada is simply less violent despite having a lot of guns per capita. If you eliminate all gun homicides from Canada and the USA and magically replace them with zero alternate method murders, the U.S. Still commits more murder per capita than Canada. Mexico has a gently caress load of US weapons, yes, but reporters tend to ignore that most of those were given to the Mexican government by the U.S. Government before ending up in the hands of Mexican criminals.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 14:41
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Doesn't Canada already have stricter gun control than the US? And doesn't the US manufacture most of the guns that end up in Mexico because it's easier to smuggle them in from our lax-rear end country than to adhere to Mexican regulations on firearms purchase and registration? W/r/t Mexico's guns, the majority are either stolen/sold from government stocks by corrupt officials, or smuggled from Central and South American conflict zones by the same trafficking routes that fuel the drug trade.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 14:56
|
|
|
Anora posted:Holy poo poo, listen to the video for these two jems: @1:15 "get outta the car or I'm gonna to smoke you."
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 14:58
|
|
|
That footage is completely baffling. According to the article he hit a sign and another vehicle before coming to a stop. Doesn't that make it an accident scene? Is it normal for the police to roll up to an accident scene with guns drawn? Jesus could you even imagine that? Like, you're sitting there injured and in shock and suddenly there's some rear end in a top hat criminal pointing a gun at your face. Oh, it's a cop.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 15:07
|
|
|
Taeke posted:Okay, wait. So the claim is that he was in fear of his life, therefor he had to jump on the hood of the car to shoot the two, despite 12 or 13 other officers already peppering it with bullets. Did he jump on the car as his colleagues were shooting, potentially putting himself in the line of fire, or did he jump on the car after the others had stopped, pretty much to finish them off execution style? I think that is why he was singled out and charged with manslaughter. He and his partner started firing through their own windshield, so it's likely he wasn't hearing\thinking anything, and just stopped when he ran out of bullets. Lesson is, if you want to play GTA5 the live version, don't do it in Cleveland
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 15:16
|
|
|
Dahn posted:Lesson is, if you want to play GTA5 the live version, don't do it in Cleveland I think the more likely lesson is that the police have impunity to kill Black folks for crimes and under circumstances that in no sane world justify capital punishment.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 15:22
|
|
|
So is anyone running a counter for how many unarmed black people have been murdered by poice this year? It seems like there's a new killing every 3-4 days.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 15:24
|
|
|
Grand Theft Autobot posted:So is anyone running a counter for how many unarmed black people have been murdered by poice this year? It seems like there's a new killing every 3-4 days. So much like rainfall, below average for many parts of the country for this time of year.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 15:25
|
|
|
-Troika- posted:Your beliefs are fanciful and dumb. Achieving this would require the total disarmament of the civilian population of the US and of all countries surrounding it and that is never ever EVER going to happen. You just make them illegal (granted you would need to make some adjustments to the constitution). Honest people will turn them in, and those that don't will become criminals. You will have achieved your goal of "only criminals having firearms". People will start holding hands more and loving each other. We will all work for the betterment of mankind with no regard for ourselves.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 15:43
|
|
|
Grand Theft Autobot posted:So is anyone running a counter for how many unarmed black people have been murdered by poice this year? It seems like there's a new killing every 3-4 days. That's a point that keeps being brought up. You can't track how many black people get killed by the police because local departments won't report the statistics. There are actually more but we don't know about them if they don't get media attention. This doesn't include all the white people and other minorities shot and killed by the police. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 15:45
|
|
|
On Terra Firma posted:That's a point that keeps being brought up. You can't track how many black people get killed by the police because local departments won't report the statistics. There are actually more but we don't know about them if they don't get media attention. This doesn't include all the white people and other minorities shot and killed by the police. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Oh Christ, not this poo poo again. Please, tell me where these departments are that let you kill a man in the line of duty and then just... not file any sort of report.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 16:02
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Oh Christ, not this poo poo again. Please, tell me where these departments are that let you kill a man in the line of duty and then just... not file any sort of report. You should probably reread that post.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 16:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 17:30 |
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Oh Christ, not this poo poo again. Please, tell me where these departments are that let you kill a man in the line of duty and then just... not file any sort of report. An individual having to do paperwork is not the same thing as a department sharing data with the public in a standard, consistent manner
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2015 16:09
|
|