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dscruffy1 posted:In the first video while I cruised around the Batcave a bit one of Bat's crime boards had the Red Hood gang on it. The entire thing is a reference to the Killing Joke, one of the better (best?) Joker-centric storylines. It's an origin story for the Joker, and it revolves around his failing career as a stand-up comedian and his one really bad day. It's similar along the lines of the Joker's origin in the first Tim Burton Batman movie, where Batman is responsible (directly or indirectly) of dropping the Joker into the chemical tank. Ah, that makes a bit more sense then, but it's still kinda obtuse and a little vague, if you're someone who hasn't read a lot of the comics (Most of my knowledge comes from osmosis.  )Also  MAC and PS3? Fairly certain when they released the PS3 version of Asylum the PS3 wasn't doing so hot, so it's like they were determined to put it on the least popular platforms imaginable and no where else. It's a bit odd that even the GOTY edition on the PC doesn't have it because those usually include everything, or in this case drat near close.
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May 24, 2015 16:04
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And this is the hammiest part of the game. No excuses for this one.
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May 24, 2015 16:04
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Batman sure does a good job saving the Joker, which kind of makes the fact that he just watched the Electrocutioner die all that more odd. I mean, he watched the screen without the slightest reaction, and then he jumps of a building to make sure Mr. I-just-blew-up-another-building doesn't get harmed.X_countryguy posted:I like the character design for Bane a lot more in this game compared to whatever the hell he was in AC. Agreed. Bane's top-heavy design from AA and AC bordered on the whimsical.
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May 24, 2015 16:06
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I think most of the character designs from the Rocksteady games are garbage, one of the few things that this game improves over the previous two, IMO. Hopefully Arkham Knight's designs are better than what they've done before.
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May 24, 2015 16:10
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I'm forced to believe Joker was intended to be playable in the challenge maps (at least just combat) and they ran out of time. Otherwise this little non-sequitur seems kinda pointless. Why go through all of this just for one time usage? I liked all the nods to The Killing Joke since I like that comic quite a bit. I felt like Harleen was really forced though. I know it's Arkham Origins, but I didn't think she needed to show up. You're telling me Joker met Batman and Harley for the first time on the same night? C'mon. Bane's redesign is very well done. Can't say the same for his boss fight. I remember a lot of rage for that fight in particular. Any charging enemy pisses me off, because the controls never feel equipped to handle them. Their tracking can sometimes be too good and you just have to eat the hit and hope you have enough HP.
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May 24, 2015 16:29
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I liked Bane's fight a lot, mainly becasue I felt his charging attack was a heck of a lot different to how it was done in the other games - I also liked the music for it, too. And also, his design in this game is pretty great, and a lot closer to the comic version of him - I did especially like him not being fooled for a second when the elevator came up empty.
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May 24, 2015 16:38
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What is Bane's deal exactly? Why would killing Batman finally give him peace?
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May 24, 2015 16:43
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"I don't need any allies!  By the way, is that new gadget done, yet?"Batman is seriously a dick to Alfred in this game. Also, that first Bane fight is probably the hardest boss fight in the game just because of the camera. That aside, I kind of like it if only because it's done a bit better than the one in Asylum. It's also a really minor thing, but I like how Bane actually does come back in one minute like he said he would, even though I'm not really sure what Joker was trying to prove by blowing up that empty building. I mean, he didn't give Batman any kind of ultimatum or anything. He just blew up a building and got punched in the face. Why doesn't he just let Bane kill him already? Night10194 posted:What is Bane's deal exactly? Why would killing Batman finally give him peace? It's never explained in-game. It's a reference to how Bane in the comics has nightmares about a bat monster and thinks it's Batman, deciding to kill him to get rid of those nightmares. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 17:35 on May 24, 2015 |
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May 24, 2015 17:06
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It gets completely brushed over in the game but Bane is usually haunted in his childhood in Santa Prisca by some sort of weird Bat-shaped shadow. Maybe it's dreams or something but whatever it is, he's still tormented by it. At least that's the running theory. Maybe killing Batman will give him the peace of "I HAVE KILLED THE BAT" but I generally assume trauma doesn't leave that easily.
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May 24, 2015 17:07
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In regards to the Bane fight, I've noticed two things: 1. Combo Takedowns are pretty much mandatory for avoiding a lot of pain. 2. The dodge roll will pretty much get you killed due to the small area, the rather lengthy animation, and Bane's quick turning. It's much easier to just run out of the way when Bane's charging at you. Game Over quotes for Bane will come later since that's, clearly, not the last encounter with him.
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May 24, 2015 17:25
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"The Judas Contract" was a storyline in the Teen Titans comic, where Deathstroke had accepted a contract to kill the Titans. Deathstroke actually had one of the members of the Titans as his "inside man", so there was a "Judas" within the team. This is about the spot where I stopped playing Arkham Origins. I didn't feel any vitriol towards the game; I just stopped wanting to play it. I appreciate having the chance to see how it all turns out. Thanks!
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May 24, 2015 18:24
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Fun fact about the joker/redhood/ace chemicals bit, you can crouch during it. You move much faster hunched over so you can sequence break some of the dialogue there.
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May 24, 2015 18:53
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I can't tell if that Joker interlude was the best part of this game so far or the worst. Liked the Bane part, and I liked the dialogue with his mercenaries. It's a different kind of confidence than the kind that Batman usually destroys, so it's a nice change of pace.
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May 24, 2015 19:17
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Bane was awesome in this game. I liked how he interacted with both Batman and Joker. I'm thinking that Batman and Joker are the least interesting characters in this game. So how about a Gotham gang war game? You choose one of the super villains and fight the police and the other super villains for control over Gotham. Super villains who don't use henchmen can work as hire able allies or enemies. But seriously, retire the Joker. A villain who acts in a (relative) rational and calculated way like Bane did is far more fun.
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May 24, 2015 20:06
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Crystalgate posted:Bane was awesome in this game. I liked how he interacted with both Batman and Joker. I'm thinking that Batman and Joker are the least interesting characters in this game. So how about a Gotham gang war game? You choose one of the super villains and fight the police and the other super villains for control over Gotham. Super villains who don't use henchmen can work as hire able allies or enemies. Well see they tried that once and- In all seriousness though, I would probably enjoy an empire building game along the lines of The Godfather games or the Scarface game, where you could choose/create a character and start building up your own empire or some such thing. It'd probably be awful anyhow but I kinda wish there was a good supervillain game as opposed to superhero games.
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May 24, 2015 20:56
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Enough of the goddamn Joker already, game.
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May 24, 2015 21:13
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Cythereal posted:Enough of the goddamn Joker already, game. If it makes you feel any better we don't see him again until the end of the game.
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May 24, 2015 21:25
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Crystalgate posted:Bane was awesome in this game. I liked how he interacted with both Batman and Joker. I'm thinking that Batman and Joker are the least interesting characters in this game. So how about a Gotham gang war game? You choose one of the super villains and fight the police and the other super villains for control over Gotham. Super villains who don't use henchmen can work as hire able allies or enemies. Imagine a game like XCOM: Enemy Within, only you choose a supervillain faction at the beginning to determine the layout of your HQ and the starting techs for your henchmen. And your objective is basically to fight through other factions of big bads and police to conquer Gotham, until you draw enough attention that Batman comes and does his best attempt to whoop all your asses. And Batman probably will, because he's loving Batman, so you just have to balance getting your work done with limiting your exposure and slowing him down. Whoever completes their mission or is the last faction to get their teeth kicked in by Batman, wins.
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May 25, 2015 00:36
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The Casualty posted:Imagine a game like XCOM: Enemy Within, only you choose a supervillain faction at the beginning to determine the layout of your HQ and the starting techs for your henchmen. And your objective is basically to fight through other factions of big bads and police to conquer Gotham, until you draw enough attention that Batman comes and does his best attempt to whoop all your asses. And Batman probably will, because he's loving Batman, so you just have to balance getting your work done with limiting your exposure and slowing him down. Whoever completes their mission or is the last faction to get their teeth kicked in by Batman, wins. And getting beat down by Batman just resets your HQ and removes most of your henchmen because breaking out of Blackgate/Arkham is a quick minigame.
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May 25, 2015 00:51
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Video 18 Notes More goofy decorated corpses And there will be yet more by the end of the LP. What I want to emphasize isn't that there are too many of these, it's that the writing of the game keeps trying to make them shocking, despite first introducing you to the joker with a pile of 20 or so dead civilians in the bank. "I've never seen anything like this", Batman growls- well, except for that other time, Bats, 2 hours ago, in the bank, with the same villain. Snowman Bombs There's no easter egg or anything for letting the timer continue- I can't remember the exact value, but it eventually just stops moving. There's no additional dialogue from Joker. This room and everything after it are inaccessible after you first clear the hotel. Everything before it is a single, straight corridor with no exit or entry points. I hope you know about that datafile in the vent in the restaurant, because if you missed it, you're spending an hour climbing the hotel and climbing back down again! Introducing Bane's gang To give an idea of how badly this game's plot got rewritten, Bane's goons appear as the clients in the Jezebel Plaza arms deal- the devs weren't quite able to edit them out of the camera angles in that cutscene. That said, the introduction of this faction is, to an extent, really well-handled. Bane's goons are built up as obviously better trained, more ruthless and more dedicated than Joker's turncoat gang-having them watch a fight against Joker's men and give commentary on how bad they are before joining in. In the predator room, the scripted activation of mines in the gargoyles are also a nice touch, and festooning the room with the murdered corpses of Joker's men would also work well if we hadn't been trained to ignore heaping stacks of bodies at this point. Goon chatter, some of which we'll hopefully hear later, really sells the idea that unlike any of the other gangs, Bane's henchmen are absolutely and fanatically loyal to him. The line from the final remaining henchman in the rooftop fight is "I am one of many!"- Bane's men are thrilled to die for him. ...It's a shame that mechanically, with the addition of Bane goons (which are rare), they don't act any differently mechanically, even if their voice lines are great. Speaking of which... Ingame chatter is fantastic Many of the lines by enemies to indicate their behaviors in the combat and predator rooms is really neat, and a lot of it, especially the lines by the final remaining enemies and predator room overseers, are really rare. They're well-done and illustrate distinctions between gangs and villains very effectively and are the game's best-used tool to build the world- it's a shame the game is so generally cruddy that so many of them will never be heard. Bane writing The scene with Bane holding batman above his head is a symptom of something that pervades the writing of this game-it doesn't mean anything. It's fine to include references to the long background of batman and these characters, but it's not a substitute for having a coherent plot- except in the eyes of fanboys whose eyes will glaze over at the sight of a reference to an iconic moment, and look past the fact that there are no themes, symbols, structures- hell, basic character motivations in the writing. Bane in AA and AC may have been the unappealing brawn-first version of the character, but at least his character actually existed. In order to get Bane's basic motivation for wanting to fight batman, you have to infer something that's not referenced or stated in any way at any point anywhere in the game. That's insane. Quoting something and pointing to it isn't a substitute for original writing, or really for writing at all. Large segments of the plot of AO aren't actually a plot- they're a series of references to other scripts that did have a plot. It's the Family Guy of game writing. Bane Fight Bane's fight has a number of fundamentally appealing features- it's an expansion of the combat against Venom users and enforcers we've seen before, and Bane has a bit of the scripted responsiveness that made the Deathstroke fight fun. It's a shame the actual combat is kludged together and actually very simple. Bane has a bunch of HP breakpoints at which the same canned counter animation will occur and he'll reactivate his venom pack. You can see, at the end of the room sequence, that the fight script process was continuing until the cutscene interrupts it. In function, it's not much different from the Croc fight- you hit the enemy, then you hit the enemy several more times while basic foot soldiers are added to the mix in a way that doesn't flow particularly well. Bane's charges kill scruffy, and for good(bad) reason- this move is one of the biggest offenders for the game's iffy hit detection. If the game decides that Bane needs to hit you, he'll turn on a dime and abruptly move at double speed to connect with you. The radius at which you can safely dodge from the charge is erratic at best. Something not shown in the video is that you basically need to stay in the center of the arena- otherwise, Bane will miss you with a charge, hit the wall, turn, and hit you on the rebound while you're still performing the first dodge. The same can actually happen even if you get hit the first time- Bane will gladly take half your lifebar off without any opportunity to respond. Also, the fight employs one of the cardinal sins of game design- inexplicable cutscene-based losses. And it does it three times- first in the elevator(in a scene stolen from, of all things, Hitman Absolution  ), second, to transition to the rooftop phase, and third to end the fight. Spoiler alert- we're going to fight Bane again, and it's going to be completely identical to this fight. And we're going to be beaten in a cutscene at the end of that fight, too. I suspect that Bane was originally going to be the final, main antagonist in the original version of the plot for AO- his combat mechanics are better-developed and there are signs that later parts of the core plot of the game were probably already in place before Joker was crowbarred in. Although the idea of an intelligent antagonist is appealing, and this version of Bane fits that bill in theory, the fact that he's still not very well-handled is, to my eyes, a sign that AO was never going to be all that great. It's clear that there were a couple really great people working on the game, but even the parts that were untainted by the Joker Intrusion (TM) were still rendered mediocre by poor main scriptwriting, limited QA and a few really poor high-level design decisions.
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May 25, 2015 02:32
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Hey, isn't Firefly supposed to be one of the guys going for Batman? Dude has been invisible up to this point, so is he going to get Electrocutioner'd or relegated to sidequest at this point?
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May 25, 2015 02:40
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Firefly isn't a sidequest villain and was at the assassin meeting. In regards to how he's handled, I'd say he's probably the assassin given the best treatment by the plot.
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May 25, 2015 02:44
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Firefly isn't a sidequest villain and was at the assassin meeting. In regards to how he's handled, I'd say he's probably the assassin given the best treatment by the plot. He is just fun to listen to and loves what he does.
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May 25, 2015 03:03
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Nothing to say about the Joker sequence, Vox? Huh. I'm not as knowledgeable about the technical aspects of the game, but if there is a section that intrigues me, it's that one. Having just played it, there's so many questions I have. It eventually all comes back to "Why?" Also, I must echo that while Bruce is colder in City (and oddly quite nice in Asylum) he's an outright oval office in this game. SonicRulez fucked around with this message at 03:22 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 03:19
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SonicRulez posted:Nothing to say about the Joker sequence, Vox? Huh. I'm not as knowledgeable about the technical aspects of the game, but if there is a section that intrigues me, it's that one. Having just played it, there's so many questions I have. It eventually all comes back to "Why?" I need to let my blood pressure medication kick in first. That said, if you'd like a preview, read the section labeled "Bane Writing" to yourself five times in a row, alternating between rage and despair. Before each recital, insert a bolded section heading with a quote from the game, e.g. And a Partridge in a Pear TREEEEEEEE After each recital, pick a random poster from the Arkham series thread and include a smug callout to them for saying AO has the best writing in the series. berryjon posted:Hey, isn't Firefly supposed to be one of the guys going for Batman? Dude has been invisible up to this point, so is he going to get Electrocutioner'd or relegated to sidequest at this point? Firefly's setpiece interior is probably the best part of the game from a map design perspective- it's also got the closest thing to a narrative structure component in the game that isn't poo poo (it still is, and it has next to nothing to do with the rest of the plot, but I'll get to that later). Firefly is the worst boss in the series. I'll cover that when we get to it, too.
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May 25, 2015 03:58
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Discendo Vox posted:Firefly is the worst boss in the series. This is probably the only thing I will disagree with Discendo Vox about in his posts. Besides, even assuming you didn't like the Firefly boss fight, Titan Joker is still a thing.
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May 25, 2015 04:04
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Discendo Vox posted:Firefly is the worst boss in the series. No, Bane in Arkham Asylum is still the worst.
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May 25, 2015 04:08
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Firefly is worse than all of the bosses of AA I will explain why in as much detail as is necessary to drive the point home. 
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May 25, 2015 04:13
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I look forward to your justification, I just really don't see it. But hey, we'll get there when we get there.
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May 25, 2015 04:15
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The Bane fight was pretty boring and there's not much dscruffy could do about that, but the Joker's... i dunno, delusional montage or something? That bit, and the other Joker parts, are one of the few times the game elevates itself above "meh". It is "good" even. Usually I'm pretty annoyed when writers take subtext and make it text text, but so far that's pretty much the only thing AO's 100% got going for it and its okay. I really wish the whole thing had more focus, though.
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May 25, 2015 05:09
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Discendo Vox posted:After each recital, pick a random poster from the Arkham series thread and include a smug callout to them for saying AO has the best writing in the series. Instead of doing this it's probably a good idea to remember that the ultimately humble praise of best writing in the series doesn't even imply that the writing was good in AO, only that some posters think its writing was better than its peers'. That sort of mild praise could even be faintly damning in the minds of some. It's real easy for anyone to point out bad examples of, say, dialogue from the other games like anything catwoman ever said in City or point out, say, cringe-worthy plotting in the writing like the culmination of asylum's events being a mutated monster joker battle that even the joker himself showed no interest in. People genuinely loathed that development at the time though I expect time has healed some of those impressions. It's probably just best to let everyone air out their opinions so long as they're putting some thought into it.
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May 25, 2015 05:38
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Using a jetpack indoors seems like a pretty bad idea for everyone involved
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May 25, 2015 10:18
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So is Hazleen just canonically an awful psychologist/psychiatrist or is Joker exuding some potent pheromones, because if a murdering psychopath who has just admitted to having met someone with whom he can share his murdering ways offers to be your friend I'd be a bit wary of the offer.
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May 25, 2015 10:40
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Szurumbur posted:So is Hazleen just canonically an awful psychologist/psychiatrist Well, yeah. Her canon backstory involves her not reporting the Joker showing that he's able to leave his cell at will, believing everything the Joker tells her at face value without corroborating with any other doctors, and believing that the Joker was unfairly ostracized by society for wanting to spread joy in a world that didn't understand him. That last bit is said while a flashback of Joker firing an automated weapon into a crowd of people is shown.
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May 25, 2015 11:07
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Nalesh posted:Using a jetpack indoors seems like a pretty bad idea for everyone involved Szurumbur posted:So is Hazleen just canonically an awful psychologist/psychiatrist or is Joker exuding some potent pheromones, because if a murdering psychopath who has just admitted to having met someone with whom he can share his murdering ways offers to be your friend I'd be a bit wary of the offer.
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May 25, 2015 11:13
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Szurumbur posted:So is Hazleen just canonically an awful psychologist/psychiatrist or is Joker exuding some potent pheromones, because if a murdering psychopath who has just admitted to having met someone with whom he can share his murdering ways offers to be your friend I'd be a bit wary of the offer. The impression I've gotten is that the comic writers can't really decide themselves. Sometimes she has psychology as a super power and sometimes shes just an idiot.
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May 25, 2015 11:15
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anilEhilated posted:Not the guy with fireproof armor. Pretty sure that frying your contractor isn't a good thing And about harley, if I remember right the only universe where she isn't confirmed a genius is the DCAU one.
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May 25, 2015 11:18
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The problem with those "genius" and "peak condition" traits is that many people have them, hell, Joker is one such specimen, too. Regardless of Quinzley's credentials, she is not all there herself, as evidenced by falling for the Joker, but if the scene was supposed to be an introduction for newer audience it wasn't a really good one. Still, she's crazy, he's crazy, but he's both crazy and sane, it seems, and knows what he's doing. It's probably a tired topic already, but I just wish it was more of a partnership in crime rather than the Joker outright being the boss and her being an underling. Oh well, can't mess with canon.
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May 25, 2015 11:38
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Both these updates are some of the worst. I can't believe they don't even put Bane's motivations anywhere in the game; that's horrendous. The textures in the game in general are just terrible: I couldn't even make out the sign said "CRIME ALLEY" at first. Alfred's VA is usually pretty spot on, but the "promise of my own" line was so overwrought, and the animations in that cutscene were so choppy, it felt like this part was guest directed by SWERY65, just without any charm whatsoever.
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May 25, 2015 14:58
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anilEhilated posted:Not the guy with fireproof armor. Firefly is all kinds of wonderful and I wish they gave him more place on the stage - or a better boss fight; I'm with Dissendo Vox on that one, although I'm looking forward to see if it's for the same reasons. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's the worst (and I will have words about this game's final fight in that regard) but it's definitely bad. That could be simply a result of being insane, some kind of mega-bipolar disorder. On one side, she's a brilliant psychologist but on the other she's doing everything she can to please Joker. It's Stockholm Syndrome and co-dependence made far worse by life with a madman who defies explanation for his madness. It's far worse in the Arkham games, but she has had some really good portrayals in the comics and animated series. As you said, it really comes down to the writer handling her at any given moment. Harley's downfall really was being too naive and caring. Joker was able to play on her sympathies to the point where she wanted to do anything for him, to make him get "better". Unfortunately what we got here is a dumb bimbo slavishly devoted to "boyfriend".
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May 25, 2015 17:25
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