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Darth Ballz posted:I always thought that as individuals we become so embroiled in our own personal mythologies that anything that we "attack" anything that goes against that state of mind without regard to ultimate consequence. Like, Templars want to end chaos through control, and Assassins want "freedom" through, uh, freedom?, and people within those groups differ on the meaning of those two terms, and have been fighting for so long they have no long term goal (other than to keep fighting the opposing side), nor do they have a plan if they "win". Beyond that, none of them are asking actual people what they want. In Rogue, Achilles literally became a cartoon villain to justify the main character becoming a templar
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May 20, 2015 02:58
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Terror Sweat posted:In Rogue, Achilles literally became a cartoon villain to justify the main character becoming a templar I wouldn't say cartoon villian, more "cartoon cutout of religious zealot". Like in Unity when the council says "We didn't tell you to kill a templar, you suck at your job!" when the Assassins entire point in games to this point is literally "See templar, kill templar".
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May 20, 2015 04:29
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Calax posted:I wouldn't say cartoon villian, more "cartoon cutout of religious zealot". I feel like the whole Assassins vs. Templars concept went to complete poo poo as soon as they started redrawing the lines of allegiance. AC1 and AC2/Brotherhood made perfect sense and had clear lines drawn. I don't remember much from Revelations, but I seem to recall that's where things started getting a little more confusing. But then along came AC3. Where the Templars are literally fighting for the exact same cause the Assassins are. But yet they kept the "see templar, kill templar" mentality so it just ended up being confusing and lovely. Like everything with AC3. EDIT: And then AC4 is more of a "gently caress you, I'm a pirate" mentality than anything else.
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May 20, 2015 05:27
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I think the idea was that they have the same overall ideal and endpoint (enlighten humanity and take it to the next level) but the Assassins want to be mostly hands off without overt power, while the Templars just say "gently caress it, we'll rule this biatch" and overtly run things. At least that's the rules I got from every time they try to have PROTAGONIST explain what the Creed means. The problem is that the writers rely to much on making the players feel like the only person who is competent so the other Assassins and Templars become cardboard cutouts who just don't really understand the creed. Or they're left so nebulous you can't really figure out what they're going at (your support crew from Unity in the modern day). Ultimately they need to have somebody sit down with all the story guys behind AC and lay out as a team "Ok, these are the story points we're going to hit on each iteration, This is what the Templar need to be, this is what the Assassins need to be dah dee dah dee dah." I feel like that idea of a pure anarchist group I posited before would work perfectly because it'd mean that the Templar and Assassins could move from being "See X, Kill X" to having the same overall goals but go about it in different ways."
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May 20, 2015 05:40
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I think part of the point of AC 3 is that the Assassin's are no longer what they used to be like back in Altair and Ezio's time and now they just blindly oppose the Templars without thinking through if it'd even be the best course of action. They've forgotten their own creed, basically. Of course that idea didn't really come into fruition because a good chunk of content was missing from the final release of AC 3 so instead we got a confusing and incoherent mess, but Haytham's American Templars are meant to be different from the European Templars in that they actually work with the people and try to improve their lives in a sort of benevolent dictator kind of way as opposed to the European Templars who were in it for themselves mostly.
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May 20, 2015 09:29
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That's actually a bit disappointing to me because that Templar change wouldn't have come from the templar's internally, but it'd be an Assassin who created the change (bloodline wise... stupid I know but it seems so much like the Assassin's/templar BS is built almost entirely on hereditary positions that it's sad)
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May 20, 2015 09:46
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Calax posted:That's actually a bit disappointing to me because that Templar change wouldn't have come from the templar's internally, but it'd be an Assassin who created the change (bloodline wise... stupid I know but it seems so much like the Assassin's/templar BS is built almost entirely on hereditary positions that it's sad) It was mostly because Haytham realized his father was an Assassin and his foster parent and Templar mentor was the one who murdered him and sent his half-sister into sex slavery. He still believed in the Templar ideals and control but was more flexible about it. Then Connor came along and wiped out the new branch of Templars Haytham was the Grandmaster of.
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May 20, 2015 13:57
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That's actually my point. The fact that this new progressive group of templars showed up isn't an evolution of their ideals and dogma. Instead it's just "Oh an assassin joined them and added a bit of Good to their Evil for five seconds!".
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May 20, 2015 15:08
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hiddenriverninja posted:The whole reason I got into Assassin's Creed was the competitive multiplayer. I have to assume the player base for that was really low for them to just completely drop it like that.
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May 20, 2015 15:51
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muscles like this? posted:I have to assume the player base for that was really low for them to just completely drop it like that. It seemed really wonky and somewhat jumbled. This is coming from someone who played it once, was immediately overwhelmed and then never touched it again.
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May 20, 2015 15:54
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Templars are only evil because they have to be. It's lazy story telling. Like the Templars are about bringing order to a chaotic world through governing and are a net gain for humanity and the Assassins are anarchists that just wanna gently caress poo poo up because gently caress templars. And right when you realize this a templar will kill a puppy. The ending of 3 spells out that Assassins would rather kill everyone back to the stoneage so they can be "free".
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May 20, 2015 16:00
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muscles like this? posted:I have to assume the player base for that was really low for them to just completely drop it like that. They'd dropped it for Unity, but now they're dropping the Co-op from Unity (probably for good reason given that EVERYONE yelled at them about it)
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May 20, 2015 16:03
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Calax posted:They'd dropped it for Unity, but now they're dropping the Co-op from Unity (probably for good reason given that EVERYONE yelled at them about it) What was wrong with co-op? My experience was nothing but positive. When everyone was just doing their own thing, it was fun, and when everyone was in sync, it was god drat magical.
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May 20, 2015 17:47
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JohnSherman posted:What was wrong with co-op? My experience was nothing but positive. When everyone was just doing their own thing, it was fun, and when everyone was in sync, it was god drat magical. A lot of the bugs in Unity were caused by the online aspects, including the Uplay integration, companion app and co-op stuff. That all got more or less fixed or made redundant as far as the companion app goes but they probably don't want a repeat of that.
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May 20, 2015 19:41
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Mr. Fortitude posted:A lot of the bugs in Unity were caused by the online aspects, including the Uplay integration, companion app and co-op stuff. That all got more or less fixed or made redundant as far as the companion app goes but they probably don't want a repeat of that. Is the companion app useful at all in Unity? I'm finally about to play it for the first time. I found it super useful in black flag for navigating in Travel speed and digging up treasure chests and missed having it when playing Rogue. Also for the ship minigame. I don't know what the Unity one actually does though, is it even worth installing on my iPad?
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May 20, 2015 20:32
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No matter what they do if the environment+npc pop-in stays the same (and judging from the trailer it does) then it's going to be hilarious. Way to spend all your manpower on a new engine and graphics and release a proof-of-concept mediocre game only to have this precious engine actually suck for what it's used for.
Palpek fucked around with this message at 20:38 on May 20, 2015 |
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May 20, 2015 20:35
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JohnSherman posted:What was wrong with co-op? My experience was nothing but positive. When everyone was just doing their own thing, it was fun, and when everyone was in sync, it was god drat magical. It wasn't the actual co-op itself, it was the fact that the missions were always shoved directly in your face and that gear was gated behind "completion of coop mission X" rather than being fully available from the single player mode. It will never do you any good to put together a game that has not 100% of your content available (in terms of equipment etc) to the player through single player interaction, if you're selling the game on it's single player.
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May 20, 2015 23:48
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Coop owned and owns and I will miss it.Calax posted:Like in Unity when the council says "We didn't tell you to kill a templar, you suck at your job!" when the Assassins entire point in games to this point is literally "See templar, kill templar". In fairness, the point of the Council-related story beats in Unity was that the Templars and Assassins had formed a truce but that peace was ultimately not possible because of factions within both sides. Then we had Arno and Elise representing the continued hope for an end to the fighting and then...that went to poo poo because uh the story really wasn't that great. And killing off Elise?? When she should have been the protagonist because she ruled??? C/mon son. Epi Lepi posted:Is the companion app useful at all in Unity? I'm finally about to play it for the first time. I found it super useful in black flag for navigating in Travel speed and digging up treasure chests and missed having it when playing Rogue. Also for the ship minigame. I don't know what the Unity one actually does though, is it even worth installing on my iPad? Nope, not with the patching. And I am an apologist for most of this series's missteps so take it from me.
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May 21, 2015 00:00
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fennesz posted:It seemed really wonky and somewhat jumbled. This is coming from someone who played it once, was immediately overwhelmed and then never touched it again. Probably also didn't help that the competitive mp was just completely unconnected to anything else. It didn't even really play the same, other than the movement.
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May 21, 2015 00:07
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It was great and I'll miss it. In the meantimes though there are still people on the servers for Rev/3/4, genrrally.
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May 21, 2015 00:17
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muscles like this? posted:Probably also didn't help that the competitive mp was just completely unconnected to anything else. It didn't even really play the same, other than the movement. I never really enjoyed it because people at higher levels had such an unfair advantage BUT I enjoyed that each game's multiplayer more or less had a plot and that the combination of the single-player modern-day story and the multiplayer modern-day story kind of led to what's presently going on in the modern day. In fact Juhani Otso Berg, the Finnish guy who is the lead modern-day Templar in Rogue, is the player character in the Revelations multiplayer story. I realize this sounds stupid and convoluted if you're not a pathetic lore nerd but if you are it is kind of cool
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May 21, 2015 00:22
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One of the latest Unity patches unlocked some extra missions shown on the map with blue Assassin icons, where are they from? "Kill this random guy" "Defend this guy" "Rob this guy" they have no storyline at all and can be completed in half a minute. The Paris Stories aren't too good either despite being longer, with the most painfully tedious missions involving having to follow an NPC for 10 minutes while fighting enemies. It's also weird how in some of them Arno has a few lines while most of the time he's completely mute, as if they simply forgot to add dialogue (wouldn't be surprising considering what a mess this game is). The Paris Crimes are pretty simple and mostly have you running from place to place to pad out their length. Co-op is only good if you're interested in seeing the game drop down to 10-20FPS when there's another player on-screen. The Riddles are all right but there's way too many of them and by the time you solve them all the equipment you get is pointless. The quantity of side missions is a complaint I have for the post-AC2 (I didn't play Brotherhood or Revelations) games and Ubigames in general: They cover the map with activities but none of them are interesting enough to add 50 of each, and by the time you get whatever reward you get for doing them your current gear is way better. They also keep putting these chests in all their games that do nothing. Why do I have to wait until Sequence 9 to open Level 3 chests (and why does the tutorial for lock-picking pop up every single time)? By that point I'll have a million Frenchbucks from doing the half dozen missions to renovate the Café (it's amazing they were restrained with the amount of missions for that) and the little amount of money you get from them is useless. The city in the game is so well made yet outside the main story the gameplay itself feels so sterile.
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May 21, 2015 00:32
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Those were the little missions from the companion app most likely.
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May 21, 2015 00:33
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Yup, they're called Companion Missions in the Progress Tracker. I agree there's way too much low-effort poo poo. It took me sooo long to collect all the chests which I only did because I'm mentally ill
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May 21, 2015 00:36
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Epi Lepi posted:Is the companion app useful at all in Unity? I'm finally about to play it for the first time. I found it super useful in black flag for navigating in Travel speed and digging up treasure chests and missed having it when playing Rogue. Also for the ship minigame. I don't know what the Unity one actually does though, is it even worth installing on my iPad? Good news! You can skip it because it NEVER WORKED so Ubisoft unlocked everything in single player that tied back to it. Unity's companion app was awful. Like you, I liked Black Flag's and how it tied let me play with the "fleet" when not playing the game. Unity's app had missions and assassins reminiscent of the assassin brotherhood stuff in Rev and Bro (did AC3 even have that stuff? Must have...) but the missions were hopelessly hard (percent wise, no gameplay challenge) and I kept loosing all my high level assassins on missions that were "successful"...except everyone died!  Also the progression was really bad timewise vs. reward. Unlocking low/1st tier equipment after almost a week of real "game time"? The worst fleet mission lengths in AC4 were the 2nd tier in the Unity app. But yeah. It was bad and you can totally avoid it now. I just wanted to reflect on how awful it was.
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May 21, 2015 00:56
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Calax posted:It wasn't the actual co-op itself, it was the fact that the missions were always shoved directly in your face and that gear was gated behind "completion of coop mission X" rather than being fully available from the single player mode. It will never do you any good to put together a game that has not 100% of your content available (in terms of equipment etc) to the player through single player interaction, if you're selling the game on it's single player. Epi Lepi posted:Is the companion app useful at all in Unity? I'm finally about to play it for the first time. I found it super useful in black flag for navigating in Travel speed and digging up treasure chests
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May 21, 2015 01:01
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Snuffman posted:Good news! You can skip it because it NEVER WORKED so Ubisoft unlocked everything in single player that tied back to it. Three replaced the "run the assassin order" with "run your homestead and have a totally saccharine time!" You know, where Connor went from being tired and sad because everyone he knew died around him to being happy and joyful because some random lady who made textiles for him popped out a child.
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May 21, 2015 01:04
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Calax posted:Three replaced the "run the assassin order" with "run your homestead and have a totally saccharine time!" You know, where Connor went from being tired and sad because everyone he knew died around him to being happy and joyful because some random lady who made textiles for him popped out a child. Ohhh, I remember now. Defending convoys of beaver pelts from the British. Yeah, that was awful, made worse by AC3's confusing UI. I blocked it out. 
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May 21, 2015 01:09
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If you like database entries the companion app is all right for them, and it can be helpful to let you go over evidence in the murder mysteries. Otherwise, gently caress that thing, the nomad Assassin stuff was ridiculously long and repetitive. And this comes from someone who really enjoyed Unity in general and still did all that poo poo because Altaïr is my favorite Assassin and I had to have his threads.
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May 21, 2015 03:31
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Calax posted:It wasn't the actual co-op itself, it was the fact that the missions were always shoved directly in your face and that gear was gated behind "completion of coop mission X" rather than being fully available from the single player mode. It will never do you any good to put together a game that has not 100% of your content available (in terms of equipment etc) to the player through single player interaction, if you're selling the game on it's single player.
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May 21, 2015 05:38
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Hannibal Smith posted:You can actually do all of the co-op missions alone and unlock all of the gear yourself. Just select private match instead of public and the missions will start immediately. Well, all of them except that tournament one, at least.
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May 21, 2015 07:49
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ixnay posted:Well, all of them except that tournament one, at least. It's definitely possible to do that one solo, the parkour section is the worst part but doable if you pick a good route.
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May 21, 2015 14:38
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I really liked solo-into the few coop missions I did play. They offered a real challenge, unlike most of the game (after I broke it with the cafe and bought the best equipment available to me).
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May 21, 2015 15:12
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ixnay posted:Well, all of them except that tournament one, at least. Took around 5 or 6 tries for me but I managed to do it solo.
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May 21, 2015 18:41
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JohnSherman posted:What was wrong with co-op? My experience was nothing but positive. When everyone was just doing their own thing, it was fun, and when everyone was in sync, it was god drat magical. Yeah. One of my best experiences was when it was a sneaking mission, and dude spotted me. Out of nowhere, my partner runs up and stabs him in the back. Most of the time it was just a giant melee though. Including one game where it spawned a bunch of invincible opponents. . That being said. Holy poo poo. Rogue should have been their "flagship" game. It is so much more fun than Unity was. Shay is a much more enjoyable person to play as. Actually has decent motives. I'm only about 30-40% done with the game, and I'm having a blast. So far... maybe Conner was justified in being a dickhead to Achilles..haha... Also, in both bosses that I was getting my rear end kicked on.. I ended up just shooting one in the head as he walked around a table, and the other one I took out with the puckle gun. My only issue with the game is the draw distance seems to be a bit low, and I don't see how to raise it up. I would totally kill for a game to take place with the east coast from Canada through South America. drat sailing is fun. TLG James fucked around with this message at 14:45 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 14:42
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Rogue and Black Flag are actually not well liked by a large part of AC's core audience because of the ship stuff.
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May 25, 2015 14:55
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Aphrodite posted:Rogue and Black Flag are actually not well liked by a large part of AC's core audience because of the ship stuff. Those people are obviously idiots and should be shunned. Seriously, though, what makes Black Flag fun without the sailing? Because it sure as hell isn't the main missions. Some of those were the most controller-smashingly frustrating things I have ever had the misfortune to play through.
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May 25, 2015 14:56
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Alter Ego posted:Those people are obviously idiots and should be shunned. That's why they don't like it. They want the standard AC formula. That's why they buy the game every year. A lot don't like Unity either because it changed the combat system and you're not invincible anymore.
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May 25, 2015 15:00
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Aphrodite posted:That's why they don't like it. I'm not particularly fond of Unity's combat formula... and the fact that it doesn't have pirate ships and ship combat because holy poo poo, that was literally the best part of black flag and rogue.
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May 25, 2015 15:13
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Where are you guys gauging this core audience reaction? I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but I hang out in places with a lot of what I'd call core AC fans, and that doesn't line up with what I've seen very well. Just curious.
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May 25, 2015 16:08
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