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YF19pilot posted:war crime Panthers and StuGs. Wait, what? That sounds sexy. YF19pilot posted:And they get to use them as artillery! Conan the Librarian posted:This list brings up a couple points worth talking about. The fact that he Forces Grenadier list has 0 Recce is something that bothers me a lot, actually. Other books have foot Recce in the Grenadier lists, and since Grenadier lists defend in most cases I suppose that might work if you stick to turtling, but non-mobile recce seems kind of dumb, especially given the apparent awesomeness of 8-rads and what not. The main thing about babys first list is that it utilizes what I have and helps me determine where to go next. In the future I really want to go full Gepanzerte because Sd Kfz 250 assaults look  but I'm not there yet. Tanks are the next priority, then artillery... that's good to know about the trucks for unarmored Panzergrenadier.So I see/hear Rocket artillery get mentioned often but not 10.5 and 15cm howitzer batteries. Is there some hidden reason that makes them suck or something? Rockets are certainly cool, especially with the mobile Gepanzerte option. For the record that HQ Mortar attachment is more about smoke than it is about firepower. I know the StuH's cover that but I'm a fan of redundancy and flexibility when it comes to key elements such as smoke. For AA the 10/5 and 7/x seem pretty handy, how do Wirbelwinds and Ostwinds perform? And as I asked at the beginning are there any AA 88 options that can double as artillery? Otherwise 88s seem like a pricey option that can only do AA where the 2 and 3.7 cm trucks have dual purpose.
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May 15, 2015 16:48
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DiHK posted:Wait, what? That sounds sexy. During the Battle of the Bulge, the Germans attempted to dress up some Panthers and StuGs as M10s and... something, respectively, as a part of Operation Greif. That portion of the plan failed pretty spectacularly IIRC, but in the game you can field them as a support option with some added benefits.  *Technically, they're known as Ersatz Panthers, but it's fun to call them War Crime Panthers because it makes Wehraboos mad. Edit: http://www.wwpd.net/2012/08/ersatz-stugs-and-panthers.html
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May 15, 2015 19:34
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Okay, so I'm biting the bullet and putting together a big PSC order for a half dozen mates getting into FOW. Any tips or suggestions? Here's what I'm thinking for my Finnish Jääkäri Company at 1500pts with about 45 left over. Attaching AT stuff to the Recon platoon, putting that up in the enemy and plinking away with everything else. It seems awfully low on firepower and survivability though: Company HQ - 110pts (50pts) +AT sections (+30pts) +Panzerschreck Upgrades (+30pts) Jääkäri Platoon: 245pts 4 Jääkäri Squads (175pts)+Command Panzerfaust SMG team(+10)+Recon Platoon(+60pts) Jääkäri Platoon: 185pts 4 Jääkäri Squads (175pts)+Command Panzerfaust SMG team(+10)T Captured Panssari Platoon: 105pts 1 ISU-152 (105pts) Jääkäri Tank-Hunter Platoon: 80pts 1 Anti-Tank section (40pts)+(Panzerfausts 40pts) Jääkäri Mortar Platoon: 100pts 3 Mortar sections Sturmi Platoon: 315pts 3 Sturmis Sturmi Platoon: 315pts 3 Sturmis
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May 16, 2015 06:54
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Acebuckeye13 posted:During the Battle of the Bulge, the Germans attempted to dress up some Panthers and StuGs as M10s and... something, respectively, as a part of Operation Greif. That portion of the plan failed pretty spectacularly IIRC, but in the game you can field them as a support option with some added benefits. The StuGs were suppose to look like M7 Priests, I believe. Or at least that's the common consensus. edit: From that wiki article, this is the best thing: quote:Not even British Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery was exempt from Skorzeny's commando paranoia. Upon hearing Eisenhower's confinement, Montgomery took off in his staff car towards Malmédy to increase his own prestige among American troops. Little did he know that a rumor had been spread in the Ardennes that one of Skorzeny’s commandos looked strikingly similar to Montgomery and had identified himself as such at several American checkpoints. When American guards halted his car at the first checkpoint, Montgomery told them that he would not put up with such nonsense and ordered the driver to keep going. The guards angrily shot out his tires and dragged the field marshal to a nearby barn where he was detained for several hours. Montgomery was enraged and called for the court martial of the American privates if they did not release him. He was also insulted that they did not recognize him after the guards demanded his identification. He was only released after a British captain known to the Americans properly recognized the fuming field marshal. An amused Eisenhower got a great pleasure from the incident, saying this was the best thing for which Skorzeny had ever been responsible. CovfefeCatCafe fucked around with this message at 07:07 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 07:03
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BJPaskoff posted:
I wouldn't so much say that tanks are fragile - most tanks will survive a game since hit modifiers can be really bad.
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May 16, 2015 17:34
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Boltaction.net has been working on some community-consensus rules and listing tweaks for Bolt Action for a while now. Their proposal for 2.0 of the community rules are out in the download section. Here's the announcement. http://www.boltaction.net/2015/05/bolt-action-season-two.html?m=1
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May 18, 2015 03:54
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CROSSPOSTING AN  OATH COMPLETE! POST! (From the painting oath thread.)   The SOMUA S35 (Claiming TECH JURNAL for all that sweet, sexy mustard yellow.)   MG34 team (on the go)   5 cm leichter Granatwerfer 36 mortar team.  Officer and NCO.   I'd also like to claim BOX ART, if we can count the Bovington Tank Museum as a "box." This month was a blast! I custom photoshopped the tank's unit emblem and licence plates, then painted over them to match my style. And I honestly thing that's the best looking grass and mud I've ever stood toy soldiers on.
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May 19, 2015 03:00
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Sweet tank! French tanks just have this pudgy adorable air to them.
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May 19, 2015 03:04
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That blitzkrieg stuff looks dope! I had no idea the early war Germans looked so good and didn't want to to bother with them after trying the crappy regular plastic Germans. I assume it's Warlord plastics?
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May 19, 2015 06:36
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DiHK posted:Are there any cases where german 88s can be used as artillery? Not that I know of, historically they were but the game doesn't really model that. Its probably a good thing since that would drive their costs through the roof. DiHK posted:The fact that he Forces Grenadier list has 0 Recce is something that bothers me a lot, actually. Other books have foot Recce in the Grenadier lists, and since Grenadier lists defend in most cases I suppose that might work if you stick to turtling, but non-mobile recce seems kind of dumb, especially given the apparent awesomeness of 8-rads and what not. DiHK posted:The main thing about babys first list is that it utilizes what I have and helps me determine where to go next. In the future I really want to go full Gepanzerte because Sd Kfz 250 assaults look DiHK posted:So I see/hear Rocket artillery get mentioned often but not 10.5 and 15cm howitzer batteries. Is there some hidden reason that makes them suck or something? Rockets are certainly cool, especially with the mobile Gepanzerte option. For the record that HQ Mortar attachment is more about smoke than it is about firepower. I know the StuH's cover that but I'm a fan of redundancy and flexibility when it comes to key elements such as smoke. DiHK posted:For AA the 10/5 and 7/x seem pretty handy, how do Wirbelwinds and Ostwinds perform? And as I asked at the beginning are there any AA 88 options that can double as artillery? Otherwise 88s seem like a pricey option that can only do AA where the 2 and 3.7 cm trucks have dual purpose. I haven't used the Ostwind/Wirbelwind/Modelwagen tanks but they seem tricky. They have firepower such that you want to use them in direct support but then they're quite vulnerable to enemy fire. If you only use them to keep planes away they are much more expensive than the truck mounted versions of the same guns. Also, not a lot of lists get them. Don't use 88s as AA, they are primarily an area defense direct fire weapon. You set them up in an area and they enemy generally avoids charging through there.
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May 19, 2015 07:34
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Throbbing blob posted:That blitzkrieg stuff looks dope! I had no idea the early war Germans looked so good and didn't want to to bother with them after trying the crappy regular plastic Germans. I assume it's Warlord plastics? Warlord's plastic Blitzkrieg minis are great, I still love the kit even after painting some 80 of them. The engineer kit based on the kit is great as well. The "old" late war kit is much worse. My club had some of the old sprues collecting dust so I painted them up to bulk out our forces, but they are clearly a secondary option these days. They just released a later war Grenadier kit that looks far better and more like the blitzkrieg kit: http://store.warlordgames.com/products/german-grenadiers-plastic-box-set lilljonas fucked around with this message at 07:52 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 07:49
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lilljonas posted:Warlord's plastic Blitzkrieg minis are great, I still love the kit even after painting some 80 of them. The engineer kit based on the kit is great as well. The "old" late war kit is much worse. My club had some of the old sprues collecting dust so I painted them up to bulk out our forces, but they are clearly a secondary option these days. Thanks for the heads-up. I don't really follow Warlord news much these days since I've been painting smaller scales, but I've felt the itch to give Bolt Action another shot
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May 19, 2015 11:24
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Yeah my Germans are all Warlord plastic except for the 5cm mortar guy and his loader (but the spotter is plastic too). It's a really great kit: the only thing I don't especially like is the ammo-belt, it just looks too "heroic scale" and GW-ish.Ensign Expendable posted:Sweet tank! French tanks just have this pudgy adorable air to them. Thanks! Yeah I can't wait to get more - the rounded corners, curves, and bright camo colors look so great and friendly when compared to the German stuff that's all angry angles and lines and grey. e: lilljonas posted:Warlord's plastic Blitzkrieg minis are great, I still love the kit even after painting some 80 of them. The engineer kit based on the kit is great as well. The "old" late war kit is much worse. My club had some of the old sprues collecting dust so I painted them up to bulk out our forces, but they are clearly a secondary option these days. I picked up the starter army and the pioneer box, and (unless my math is awful) I should be able to do up a full platoon with lots of support options for Chain of Command. The only thing I had to get separate was the 5cm mortar, which wasn't the easiest thing to find. It should translate to ~1250 Bolt Action points, which seems to be standard? moths fucked around with this message at 13:42 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 13:33
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moths posted:
For Chain of Command, you also have the option to start out with just three squads on each side instead of the full four. We did that for the first couple of games where we got familiar with the rules. For 1940-41 Germans, that basically means three squads, each with a MG team (3 guys), a sergeant with a submachine gun, and six riflemen. The pioneer box comes with a lot of extra riflemen as well which should easily get you closer to a two platoons force, but three squads is a good start for learning the rules and you'll get them painted quicker. From our experience at the club, a good next step is to get a medic and an PaK, and then maybe a tank or two. A lot of the support options are not so great, and we often spend support points on minefields, medics and fortifications if we don't have enough points for a tank or heavy weapon. Images of my Warlord Germans just because why not?      This is how it usually end. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 14:40 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 14:36
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Those look great! I remember when you were painting that 222. I've actually got full platoons in 15mm, so it might be a good idea to learn and teach in that scale and then just bump everything up when it's ready. Starting with smaller (fewer, not littler) forces is also a good idea, at least until everybody gets their brains around the rules.
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May 20, 2015 16:57
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muggins posted:Awesome! Tanks are definitely not necessary in BA and it seems like you're experiencing that. Armored cars can be really fun and ATR can be hard to hit anything with but useful at flanking things out. If I stopped forgetting stupid little rules*, my friends might break away from their "must have two tanks!" mentality. I'm kind of holding my own despite my complete lack of tabletop strategy just because I have ~280 more points to spend on actual things that matter instead of another tank. Most of my games have ended in a draw, though I'm confident I would've won if I didn't throw away units because I still have card gamer brain. * Things like how even though my Commandos have a free charge, they can still be shot to pieces if I charge a unit that doesn't have an order on it yet; or forgetting to activate my recce vehicle first so it actually does something before it has to make an escape move; or forgetting what HE does.
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May 20, 2015 17:06
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Acebuckeye13 posted:During the Battle of the Bulge, the Germans attempted to dress up some Panthers and StuGs as M10s and... something, respectively, as a part of Operation Greif. That portion of the plan failed pretty spectacularly IIRC, but in the game you can field them as a support option with some added benefits. All this is fascinating, as a Murican I've mostly been bombarded with "101ST AIRBORNE---NUTS!!!1!" so i don't have much exposure to the other side of that fight. Even the old History Channel didn't have much about it IIRC, not enough Hitler I guess. I know "Greif" doesn't have the same meaning in German but that's the icing on the war crime cake. Conan the Librarian posted:Its mostly that Allied artillery completely outclasses German guns, their special rules and their loving AOP mean that the Germans will always be outgunned, so why try to keep up? Is that not a-historical? I'm relying on that murican/hitler channel bias: 88s were king poo poo and the first rule of US Howitzers in WW2 is don't talk about US howitzers in WW2.
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May 20, 2015 17:41
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DiHK posted:Is that not a-historical? I'm relying on that murican/hitler channel bias: 88s were king poo poo and the first rule of US Howitzers in WW2 is don't talk about US howitzers in WW2. From my understanding, the US had by far the best artillery in WW2, in terms of training and how they operated, if not the actual guns. Also they had more radios and a better system if calling in artillery support.
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May 20, 2015 17:49
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The Royal Artillery was no slouch, but yeah the Americans had good guns, the computers to aim them accurately and reliably, the trained men to operate them, and the radios to feed them targets.
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May 20, 2015 17:51
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Forums Terrorist posted:The Royal Artillery was no slouch, but yeah the Americans had good guns, the computers to aim them accurately and reliably, the trained men to operate them, and the radios to feed them targets. Not too mention the ammunition to feed them. Even when the Germans weren't low on ammo, I think they had a very high rate of duds.
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May 20, 2015 18:17
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The Russians, on the other hand, just had a lot of them, so who cares if they don't compute poo poo so accurately?
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May 20, 2015 19:07
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Colonial Air Force posted:The Russians, on the other hand, just had a lot of them, so who cares if they don't compute poo poo so accurately? Heck, they didn't even bother trying to compute stuff when it came to the Katyusha, they just strapped rocket launchers on trucks and fired 'em off. With the added bonus that the noise from "Stalin's Organ" scared the poo poo out of the Germans. 
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May 20, 2015 20:03
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Germany's focus on mobility over firepower meant their artillery was outclassed by the Allies in all aspects. By the time they realized the deficiency, the turning tide and materiel shortages meant it was too late to do anything. The Brits began making large changes to their artillery in North Africa, which contributed much to their later success there. The Americans developed several procedural concepts and TTPs still in use by western armies today. The Russians placed a high value on their artillery: there were assets at all levels of their armies. In addition to the sheer volume, accuracy was very important and always strived for and they were probably the best at planning and coordinating fire support.
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May 20, 2015 20:49
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My understanding was that Russian artillery relied on pre-planned bombardments extensively due to a crippling lack of radios and computers rather than lack of training or whatever. They had to do the best they could with lots of cheap guns over a few accurate ones.
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May 20, 2015 20:55
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Forums Terrorist posted:My understanding was that Russian artillery relied on pre-planned bombardments extensively due to a crippling lack of radios and computers rather than lack of training or whatever. They had to do the best they could with lots of cheap guns over a few accurate ones. To an extent yes especially in the early war. However there is more to artillery coordination than just having enough radios, and those areas are where Russia really grew and improved. Their observers were very proficient as were their fire direction procedures. Other aspects such as ammo management, unit positioning, and the previously mentioned various artillery echelons, and command and control as well. While gun quality does influence your accuracy, it is not the only thing and can be compensated for, which the Russians did well.
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May 20, 2015 23:07
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If you actually look at Soviet ballistic tables, you'll see that they had no problems with precision.
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May 21, 2015 01:05
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DiHK posted:All this is fascinating, as a Murican I've mostly been bombarded with "101ST AIRBORNE---NUTS!!!1!" so i don't have much exposure to the other side of that fight. Even the old History Channel didn't have much about it IIRC, not enough Hitler I guess. I know "Greif" doesn't have the same meaning in German but that's the icing on the war crime cake. As I remember the intention was that these tanks and some similarly equipped infantry were intended to race ahead to capture the bridges over the Meuse river right before the Germans got there. As it became clear that they were not going to get to the river they just used them as any other tanks. DiHK posted:Is that not a-historical? I'm relying on that murican/hitler channel bias: 88s were king poo poo and the first rule of US Howitzers in WW2 is don't talk about US howitzers in WW2. No, it is historically accurate. The 88 was a 'good' gun, but it was really only good for 2 out of the 3 roles it was used in. It wasn't great for indirect fire due to its high velocity and relatively small round. Likely most American GIs had heard about the dreaded "88" but not the 10.5cm or 15cm guns the Germans also used. I'm sure whenever they felt they were under particularly dangerous fire they would just curse those deadly 88s and thus the legend would grow. The Americans pioneered all kinds of artillery innovations, 'Time on Target' bombardments and the proximity fuse shell among them. The greater industrial capacity of the US also meant that there were rarely shortages of ammo.
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May 21, 2015 05:17
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Conan the Librarian posted:No, it is historically accurate. The 88 was a 'good' gun, but it was really only good for 2 out of the 3 roles it was used in. It wasn't great for indirect fire due to its high velocity and relatively small round. Likely most American GIs had heard about the dreaded "88" but not the 10.5cm or 15cm guns the Germans also used. I'm sure whenever they felt they were under particularly dangerous fire they would just curse those deadly 88s and thus the legend would grow. The Americans pioneered all kinds of artillery innovations, 'Time on Target' bombardments and the proximity fuse shell among them. The greater industrial capacity of the US also meant that there were rarely shortages of ammo. "Every gun an 88, every tank a Tiger." Unfortunately this also leads to Hollywood perpetuating the myths because film writers can't be arsed to do research and when called out on it, they immediately run to the same lame excuse of "artistic license" that they always do. So you get kids (and adults) who didn't realize the Germans had more than one tank and poo poo like that.
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May 21, 2015 07:04
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YF19pilot posted:"Every gun an 88, every tank a Tiger." Unfortunately this also leads to Hollywood perpetuating the myths because film writers can't be arsed to do research and when called out on it, they immediately run to the same lame excuse of "artistic license" that they always do. So you get kids (and adults) who didn't realize the Germans had more than one tank and poo poo like that. That's the other funny thing about the ersatz panther: it looks like those abominations in the first Saints and Soldiers. "whaddya mean it doesn't look like a Nazi tank? It's gray and it has a balkincrews !". I was prepared to deal with the acting... But jfc. But look, this is all bullshit, Me 262 was gonna bring plenty of groung ordnance to make up for the lack in artillery.
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May 21, 2015 07:44
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I worked a bit on my platoon cards for Chain of Command. The idea is that they should be helpful for both one-off games, but mostly for keeping score for our campaigns where casualties and command traits carry over.   In the campaign system that we're gradually developing you can field several platoons on various "fronts", which makes it even more important to be able to follow the various platoons individually. But if they end up being helpful for "normal" games as well I'd be happy to share the end result. If you have any ideas for improvements I'd be happy to hear them as well.
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May 21, 2015 08:35
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One thing to point out about artillery is the germans really were the kings when it came to 80mm and 120mm mortars. They had them organically at the company level and a lot of them. One of the real terrors of the normandy invasion was it was basically 6 months being shelled by mortars if you were an allied soldier. I've read some things where they were pinpointed as the source for the majority of casualties sustained. Always thought they were given the shaft in games like FoW, they were sometimes useful but never really seemed like they ended up as valuable as they were in real life.
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May 21, 2015 13:38
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That Gallipoli diorama is fantastic but I wanted to post this one dude's Waterloo diorama he spent 40 years making in his home in Belgium: http://rt.com/news/257273-epic-model-waterloo-battle/
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May 21, 2015 13:39
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dtkozl posted:One thing to point out about artillery is the germans really were the kings when it came to 80mm and 120mm mortars. They had them organically at the company level and a lot of them. One of the real terrors of the normandy invasion was it was basically 6 months being shelled by mortars if you were an allied soldier. I've read some things where they were pinpointed as the source for the majority of casualties sustained. Mortars in general are more effective than given credit for in FoW. Most can drop smoke and you're pretty much guaranteed to pin anybody you're targeting. The problem is mortars are great anti-infantry weapons, but can't do much against armor, and people like to cheese out on armor. Literally, I think I was the only person running an actual infantry company at my former LGS, where most people were just running tanks and more tanks. I still brought mortars because smoke still works against tanks.
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May 21, 2015 15:40
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YF19pilot posted:Mortars in general are more effective than given credit for in FoW. Most can drop smoke and you're pretty much guaranteed to pin anybody you're targeting. The problem is mortars are great anti-infantry weapons, but can't do much against armor, and people like to cheese out on armor. Literally, I think I was the only person running an actual infantry company at my former LGS, where most people were just running tanks and more tanks. I still brought mortars because smoke still works against tanks. That's what heavy mortars are for, comrade! 
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May 21, 2015 15:56
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krushgroove posted:That Gallipoli diorama is fantastic but I wanted to post this one dude's Waterloo diorama he spent 40 years making in his home in Belgium: http://rt.com/news/257273-epic-model-waterloo-battle/
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May 21, 2015 17:15
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Arquinsiel posted:Is this the same one? I'm probably going to try get down to it this summer. The one I linked is in Belgium, your link is in Ireland - How many damned dioramas of Waterloo do there need to be?
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May 21, 2015 17:43
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It's the same diorama. Just opposite ends.
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May 21, 2015 18:12
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krushgroove posted:The one I linked is in Belgium, your link is in Ireland - How many damned dioramas of Waterloo do there need to be?
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May 21, 2015 18:54
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I've started getting into Bolt Action - it seems to be the right scale for me. I can actually pull together a French army that would be somewhat competitive (if only vs. Early war opponents). Aside from Warlord's site and Warlord minis, what's a good place to get minis from?
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May 25, 2015 21:05
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SquadronROE posted:I've started getting into Bolt Action - it seems to be the right scale for me. I can actually pull together a French army that would be somewhat competitive (if only vs. Early war opponents). Aside from Warlord's site and Warlord minis, what's a good place to get minis from? The War Store? I'm going to start playing Finnish. I wanted an Axis army that's unique, and they basically have Space Marines. Troops with rifles and SMGs that have a freaking armor save, are fanatics, tough fighters thanks to their SMGs, and can come in from outflanking on the enemy's table edge.
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May 25, 2015 22:34
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