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How is milling an rear end in a top hat move?
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May 25, 2015 23:20
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Bloom Titan, Twin and Infect top 8 all the time. There are a ton of creature decks that can kill on turn 4, and with exceptional draws turn 3 in modern. Turn 4 isn't solely a restriction on combo decks.
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May 25, 2015 23:25
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akulanization posted:People like milling cause it's an rear end in a top hat move and this card is really good in the mill decks that assholes like to play. I am the flavor of rear end in a top hat who likes prison and aggro though, so I probably shouldn't throw stones. Basically this, with the caveat it's only been printed that once. Look we can fix modern in one go. Fixing twin: Instant if your opponent has more than 4 of a creature in play with the same name it is free to cast and cannot be countered. Opponent takes 5 damage for each copy of the creature past 4 they have in play. Fixing control: enchantment, indestructible, cannot be countered, you may discard a card instead of paying the cost for is spell, if you do pay 3 or exile this spell. if an opponent ends their turn without playing a spell they lose 4 life. Fixing infect: meliera Errant Gin Monks fucked around with this message at 23:32 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 23:27
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I once was reading a thread of people trying to make Modern mill competitive. It was really funny seeing the absurd strategies they had planned to not scoop to a single Emrakul existing in a deck.
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May 25, 2015 23:32
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Elyv posted:How is milling an rear end in a top hat move? Some people really dislike non-interactive magic, some people really dislike slow magic; mill is often both pretty low interaction and pretty slow.
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May 25, 2015 23:38
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Fixing control: enchantment, indestructible, cannot be countered, you may discard a card instead of paying the cost for is spell, if you do pay 3 or exile this spell. if an opponent ends their turn without playing a spell they lose 4 life. I would begrudgingly play this alongside Keranos because they aren't creatures and I'm not turning anything sideways.
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May 26, 2015 00:05
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Someone brought Mill to last weeks Modern tournament He played against Dredgevine. 
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May 26, 2015 00:05
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Here's my solution to fixing modern: Stop being a baby about losing to some card you hate and have fun playing magic.
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May 26, 2015 00:06
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Here's my solution to fixing modern: I keep saying this for divining top but people whine about it for some dumb reason. Modern miracles would be rad.
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May 26, 2015 00:10
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We can't have Top. Every store has that one guy who always plays U/x control in every format and goes into the tank on every decision even when he has no cards in hand, and if you let him have Top every round would go to time.
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May 26, 2015 00:19
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Basically this, with the caveat it's only been printed that once. Control is fixed in Modern by being poo poo dude
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May 26, 2015 00:27
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Entropic posted:We can't have Top. Every store has that one guy who always plays U/x control in every format and goes into the tank on every decision even when he has no cards in hand, and if you let him have Top every round would go to time. New rule just for top, if your match ends in a draw and you are playing top, if your opponent is not he wins the match and you lose. If you are both playing top you both lose.
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May 26, 2015 00:33
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It's almost as if magic could use a secondary system of tie breaking and not rely on an increasingly ineffective pool of judges (by pure number:player ratio) to make sure people aren't playing to time. Cards played over course of game, cards left in deck, whatever. But I'd be glad to hear why magic is a special snowflake that can't use such a system. 
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May 26, 2015 00:37
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Chill la Chill posted:It's almost as if magic could use a secondary system of tie breaking and not rely on an increasingly ineffective pool of judges (by pure number:player ratio) to make sure people aren't playing to time. Cards played over course of game, cards left in deck, whatever. But I'd be glad to hear why magic is a special snowflake that can't use such a system. I, for one, have always advocated that ties be resolved by fist fight.
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May 26, 2015 00:44
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Because who cares. Sometimes people draw and that's fine. Trying to find some weird other metric to determine a winner is unnecessary.
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May 26, 2015 00:45
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Angry Grimace posted:I, for one, have always advocated that ties be resolved by fist fight. I would win so many more magic games if this were the case. I'd say this would make for a better spectator sport but then you'll just have Mayweather hugging in two sports.
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May 26, 2015 00:46
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Chill la Chill posted:It's almost as if magic could use a secondary system of tie breaking and not rely on an increasingly ineffective pool of judges (by pure number:player ratio) to make sure people aren't playing to time. Cards played over course of game, cards left in deck, whatever. But I'd be glad to hear why magic is a special snowflake that can't use such a system. I know you play a lot of X-Wing and it uses a points system, basically if you have more ship value on the board you were winning. Which makes sense in a game like X-Wing more than what would be equivalent to Magic which is life totals. However unlike X-Wing life is as resource in magic, one which you can easily and happily trade for other resources such as drawing extra cards etc. The life totals at the moment a round timer ends doesn't convey what the actual state of the game is unlike X-Wing where killing all opponent ships is the goal, and we just measure who was closer to that goal. X-Wing was designed to essentially not use the points value of matches as a resource in the game itself, so it is a reasonable measurement of who is winning. What measurement makes sense in magic? Cards in hand, library, graveyard, exile zone? Nope. Those are all variables that don't really tell you much about how the game is going. Life totals? As stated before, can't because game was designed to use life as an in game resource. Board state? Often 100% irrelevant, like if your playing zoo and I'm playing storm, I may have nothing but land and you have a nice built up board and I'm going to kill you next turn, assuming there would be a next turn. I can't think of any reasonable metric you could decide who should win or lose in magic. You can usually figure it out but only by understanding each deck and seeing who has what in hand on board etc. can you make a determination of who would likely win, and even then you'd probably have to check the next few draws to be close to 100% certain. And that all assumes that both players play optimally, which given that magic has hidden information and what amounts to bluffing, you can't assume that ever.
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May 26, 2015 00:53
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all this stupid arguing is just further reasons why you nobody should play modern
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May 26, 2015 00:53
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I mean you could just play a deck that's designed to go to time while manipulating whatever the tiebreaker is (eg a deck with a tonne of lifegain and shuffle effects or whatever). Self-Destruct Button never forget
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May 26, 2015 00:58
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Jassi, if life totals were the metric you could easily re-flavor/mechanize all existing life payments as gambling for a possible win before the universe ends (time is called). Shot clocks would work but people never like that idea.
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May 26, 2015 00:58
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:all this stupid arguing is just further reasons why you nobody should play modern When ever Modern argument here just turns into "I don't like Azban and Twin, give me better blue card draw" is gets loving repetitive
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May 26, 2015 01:17
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Chill la Chill posted:I would win so many more magic games if this were the case. I'd say this would make for a better spectator sport but then you'll just have Mayweather hugging in two sports. It would make the "durdle with Top as long as possible" deck the most popular choice among big dudes.
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May 26, 2015 01:28
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Chill la Chill posted:Jassi, if life totals were the metric you could easily re-flavor/mechanize all existing life payments as gambling for a possible win before the universe ends (time is called). Shot clocks would work but people never like that idea. You could but you know that is nonsense, it makes many black cards like dark confidant, thoughtseize absolute garbage. Black would essentially need a overhaul which is not going to happen in a 20+ year old game. I'm not saying this because I don't think your core idea is wrong, Magic needs a better slow play deterrent than judges, but a tie breaker mechanic isn't it, or at least life total is not it. I think that just making unintentional draws worth 0 or negative points is sufficient, if you play a deck that goes long and you get -1 point per UID you will not win events. It does punish your opponent unfairly to some extent, but if people playing durdle decks or slow playing suddenly can not win events the whole behaviour will get fixed pretty quickly right?
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May 26, 2015 01:46
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One of my favorite magic things is burgeoning rules lawyers who learn that if the match is 1-0 in your favor at the end of turns you win the whole shebang. We had a rash of them locally a couple months back, most of them were slick enough to not say it was their plan so it took some time to sort them out but one boy genius was dumb enough to tell us that was his plan when he came up to ask if he could run across the street to buy some snacks with 10 minutes left in the round. Also, I would be totally be in favor of chess clocks at regular REL or better, slow play is so hard to determine objectively even though it's almost always the usual suspects still playing when the round goes to time.
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May 26, 2015 01:57
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BXCX posted:One of my favorite magic things is burgeoning rules lawyers who learn that if the match is 1-0 in your favor at the end of turns you win the whole shebang. We had a rash of them locally a couple months back, most of them were slick enough to not say it was their plan so it took some time to sort them out but one boy genius was dumb enough to tell us that was his plan when he came up to ask if he could run across the street to buy some snacks with 10 minutes left in the round. My local judges would get around that by handing out slow play penalties like candy if anyone tried it.
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May 26, 2015 02:01
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Angry Grimace posted:I, for one, have always advocated that ties be resolved by fist fight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing
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May 26, 2015 02:25
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What 
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May 26, 2015 02:42
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Count Bleck posted:What It's actually quite engaging and interesting. It fully requires that you both think about the game from two angles as well as keep your body in shape and capable. So while it seems like a random mish mash (and it is), it's actually very challenging.
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May 26, 2015 02:48
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Ramos posted:It's actually quite engaging and interesting. It fully requires that you both think about the game from two angles as well as keep your body in shape and capable. So while it seems like a random mish mash (and it is), it's actually very challenging. Look at this guy pretending that he has actually chessboxed.
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May 26, 2015 02:51
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Maybe it should be called Boxchessing. That sounds much nerdier.
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May 26, 2015 03:06
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I got to live the dream today playing Naya dragons. Turn 1 Forest, Mystic Turn 2 Forest, Mystic, Mystic, Mystic Turn 3 Mountain, DL Atarka Turn 4 Xenagod 
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May 26, 2015 03:12
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Entropic posted:We can't have Top. Every store has that one guy who always plays U/x control in every format and goes into the tank on every decision even when he has no cards in hand, and if you let him have Top every round would go to time. People are bad at playing with a card. Ban the card! It should take about 5 seconds the first time you blind spin and maybe 2 every subsequent time. Our resident Miracles player has never had a draw that I know of and spends maybe 2 minutes/match actually Topping.
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May 26, 2015 03:20
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Plays like that make me miss pre-khans Green Devotion plays of T1 Forest, Mystic, T2 BTE, BTE, BTE, Nykthos, Garruk, minus play Worldspire Wurm. I miss Big Garruk. 
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May 26, 2015 03:23
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jassi007 posted:You could but you know that is nonsense, it makes many black cards like dark confidant, thoughtseize absolute garbage. Black would essentially need a overhaul which is not going to happen in a 20+ year old game. I'm not saying this because I don't think your core idea is wrong, Magic needs a better slow play deterrent than judges, but a tie breaker mechanic isn't it, or at least life total is not it. I think that just making unintentional draws worth 0 or negative points is sufficient, if you play a deck that goes long and you get -1 point per UID you will not win events. It does punish your opponent unfairly to some extent, but if people playing durdle decks or slow playing suddenly can not win events the whole behaviour will get fixed pretty quickly right? Right. The cure might be worse than the disease. I just enjoy talking about better game mechanics sometimes but typically those are easier to implement for board games that don't have to deal with retroactively change decades' worth of design. I do think there is better merit for a tie breaking mechanic that shows "activity", but tracking down the number of plays/person is also tedious and is more easily implemented in computer games like hearth stone. And I say all this as a UWR control (modern, I don't think there was ever a nice name for it?) and miracles player. I want to get into this but I need to get way better at chess first. And boxing, not gonna kid myself. 
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May 26, 2015 03:33
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Skyl3lazer posted:I got to live the dream today playing Naya dragons. This is the part where your Bile Blight-playing opponent gets to live the dream, yeah?
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May 26, 2015 03:43
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Chill la Chill posted:
After seeing what Gin monks looks like IRL I no longer assume you are all pasty nerds. I feel like there are prob more than a few of us whose boxing could carry their chess skills while chess boxing. Speaking of excellent mash-up's, if you love booze and cubing you should give the Booze Cube a shot. We had a great afternoon/evening/late night with 8 ppl but make sure you have your couches and spare rooms ready, you will get wasted. PleasantDirge fucked around with this message at 03:48 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 03:44
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Jabor posted:This is the part where your Bile Blight-playing opponent gets to live the dream, yeah? I did exactly that with a Golgari Charm in last year's standard. It was my favorite moment of my 3-month long standard career.
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May 26, 2015 03:50
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Warmachine tournaments were making the switch to mandatory chess clocks on every game a few years ago when I quit. They should just make them mandatory for any sanctioned event once things get pared down to top 16 or so. I prefer MODO to paper for a lot of reasons, and getting rewarded for zippy play and running the clock to win stalled games is one of the biggest.
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May 26, 2015 04:11
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Chill la Chill posted:It's almost as if magic could use a secondary system of tie breaking and not rely on an increasingly ineffective pool of judges (by pure number:player ratio) to make sure people aren't playing to time. Cards played over course of game, cards left in deck, whatever. But I'd be glad to hear why magic is a special snowflake that can't use such a system. That doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that a match with Top takes too long not that it's a tie. Second Sunrise is banned for a similar reason, even though a match with Sunrise generally ends with the Sunrise player winning.
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May 26, 2015 04:13
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fadam posted:Warmachine tournaments were making the switch to mandatory chess clocks on every game a few years ago when I quit. They should just make them mandatory for any sanctioned event once things get pared down to top 16 or so. Unrealistic in magic. Here is how a turn goes in paper magic with a chess clock. I am going first in the game. hit clock. upkeep, hit clock opponent hits clock draw card, hit click, opponent hits clock main phase play fetch, hit clock, opponent has no response, hits clock, get land put it in play. play spell, hit clock, opponent has no response, hits clock, spell resolves hit clock, opponent has nothing he wants to do in main 1, hit clock. Combat, hit clock, opponent has no response, hit clock, skip to main 2 no attackers to declare. main 2 hit clock, opponent hits clock end step hit clock, opponent hits clock, now his turn. That is a stupid amount of actual interaction with the chess clock device for one very simple turn. It isn't feasible. Then we get into the even better idea, what happens when someone forgets to hit the clock for priority? What level of penalty is appropriate?
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May 26, 2015 04:19
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