|
Martytoof posted:I really really really wish we'd gotten to see Tennant with a new show runner. He tried to uncover a Zygon and accidentally married Queen Elizabeth instead.
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 06:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 08:29 |
|
|
The_Doctor posted:August. K, thanks.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 07:30
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:The REAL end of S8 is the Christmas special, more than most previous series. Agreed, the last episode of the regular season is a pretty good finisher, but the Christmas Special is even better. Both left me with a sense of closure, but while Death in Heaven was more downbeat (until the amazing post-credits moment), Last Christmas just left me with a big ol' grin on my face.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 11:27
|
|
|
Martytoof posted:Well I'm burning through the Capaldi season pretty quickly and I love the direction they took the show. Clara went from "gently caress this poo poo" to "okay I guess I'll keep going" pretty quickly though. I'm about to hit the Forest episode though and you've all adjusted my expectations appropriately The guy who wrote the Mummy episode is writing another one for the upcoming series, and I am pretty excited about that.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 18:13
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:The guy who wrote the Mummy episode is writing another one for the upcoming series, and I am pretty excited about that. He's confirmed, but so is Peter Harness for two episodes.  For the record, I loved Kill The Moon, doofy science aside.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 18:20
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:He's confirmed, but so is Peter Harness for two episodes. I'll never enjoy an episode that would have been exactly the same if our heroes had just staid home and took a nap. What's the point of including the main characters if that's the case?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 18:21
|
|
|
Burkion posted:I'll never enjoy an episode that would have been exactly the same if our heroes had just staid home and took a nap. A lot of people like Midnight for some reason, so I dunno.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 18:27
|
|
|
"Imaginary effect on imaginary world" is a pretty bad yardstick to judge fiction by.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 18:37
|
|
|
Burkion posted:I'll never enjoy an episode that would have been exactly the same if our heroes had just staid home and took a nap. Character development, an entertaining story, the idea that they potentially disrupted something that would have gone just fine if they hadn't butted in, et cetera. They saved that one astronaut, so some good came of them being there at least. Edit: quote:If Clara and the Doctor hadn't been there the people of Earth would have blown up the moon instead of letting the space dragon hatch 2house2fly fucked around with this message at 18:43 on May 25, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 18:38
|
|
|
If Clara and the Doctor hadn't been there the people of Earth would have blown up the moon instead of letting the space dragon hatch. That's a pretty big difference, actually!
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 18:40
|
|
|
Moon, egg, what's the difference?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 19:42
|
|
|
computer parts posted:A lot of people like Midnight for some reason, so I dunno. Also Planet of the Ood.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
Yeah the idea that the Doctor has to have this Big Impact is kinda unnecessary IMO.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 23:12
|
|
|
the main problem with Kill the Moon and Forest of the Night isn't the bad science or that the main characters do nothing it's that they're both really boring
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 23:16
|
|
|
I thought Midnight was pretty good for a laid back episode, then again it came in the middle of my marathon so I wasn't really put off by a slacker episode.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 23:28
|
|
|
Martytoof posted:I thought Midnight was pretty good for a laid back episode, then again it came in the middle of my marathon so I wasn't really put off by a slacker episode. Midnight is really great though, so that shouldn't come as a surprise. It's RTD trying something a little different to his usual schtick, and where for me Love & Monsters fell flat, this one works.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2015 23:49
|
|
|
BSam posted:Also Planet of the Ood. Donna and the Doctor actually did a fair amount in that episode. Sigma was mostly the one doing stuff behind the scenes, but they were vital to things working out. In both Forest and Moon, our heroes didn't need to be there. They didn't need to do anything- and more importantly they DIDN'T do anything. It wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't for the fact that these two episodes followed each other so closely. That's a really poor writing choice unless the episode you have is really goddamn amazing. And neither were. Even if you liked Moon, no one is going to stand up for it being one of The Definitive Doctor Who episodes ever.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 00:30
|
|
|
You must hate Listen too.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 00:31
|
|
|
The Doctor and Peri don't really do anything in "Revelation of the Daleks" either, do they?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 00:35
|
|
|
For the record, Phil Sandifer argues that Kill the Moon is a Definitive Who episode. I wouldn't go that far.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 00:35
|
|
|
My definition of "nobody" includes Phillip Sandifer 
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 00:38
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:You must hate Listen too. I do not enjoy it, no. But that's more for the nonsense of Clara inspiring baby Doctor and giving us any hint of an origin story and just how vague that bullshit all was.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 00:39
|
|
|
I don't think it's inherently wrong to have episodes where the Doctor's presence changes basically nothing. There were some good episodes of X-Files like that where Mulder and Scully basically accomplished nothing, but they were good episodes nonetheless. In these type of plots, the protagonists bear witness to the craziness, and the point is not how they affect things, but how they are affected by things.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 00:41
|
|
|
Spatula City posted:I don't think it's inherently wrong to have episodes where the Doctor's presence changes basically nothing. There were some good episodes of X-Files like that where Mulder and Scully basically accomplished nothing, but they were good episodes nonetheless. In these type of plots, the protagonists bear witness to the craziness, and the point is not how they affect things, but how they are affected by things. Yes. And Midnight affected the Doctor deeply and shook him to his core- he was helpless, but his presence still mattered. Forest? No body was affected at all. We just learned that Clara is a lovely human being and very spiteful when pissed off, which amounted to dick all. Moon? The only one who was affected at all was Clara which got swept under the rug in the very next episode.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 00:48
|
|
|
ARRIVE WEB OF TIME LEAVE
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 01:00
|
|
|
Burkion posted:
His presence mattered to him but not anyone else. Although it's never referenced again so even that is suspect.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 01:01
|
|
|
Burkion posted:Yes. The astronaut whose life they saved could also be said to have been affected by the events of that episode.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 01:15
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:The astronaut whose life they saved could also be said to have been affected by the events of that episode. If she ever comes back or becomes important or if anything happens because of her specifically sure I'll give you that. Otherwise woohoo. A character who might as well of been nameless for all the impression she left was maybe affected by the dragoning of the moon. Only more likely she just went to bed afterwards because gently caress it, new moon, might as well be a reset button. We already had the big 'moment that inspired humans to go into space' in Waters of Mars.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 01:50
|
|
|
"Everybody lives! Just this once, EVERYBODY LI-, oh, never mind, none of them are of historical significance, who even cares?"
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 01:55
|
|
|
I liked Clara's student in Kill the Moon. Otherwise, it was a nothing of an episode for me.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 01:59
|
|
|
Burkion posted:If she ever comes back or becomes important or if anything happens because of her specifically sure I'll give you that. Saving people only matters if they're important. That's basically the essence of Doctor Who.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 02:28
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:Saving people only matters if they're important. That's basically the essence of Doctor Who. Yep that's what I meant entirely. Clearly narrative importance for us as viewers and importance within the fictional universe are the exact same thing. Ace job there champ.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 02:34
|
|
|
Nobody important? Blimey, that's amazing. You know that in nine hundred years of time and space and I've never met anybody who wasn't important before.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 02:47
|
|
|
Burkion posted:Yep that's what I meant entirely. The narrative importance for the viewers is not knowing how it's going to turn out and character development, both of which Kill The Moon has. First time you watch it anyway.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 04:01
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:Yeah the idea that the Doctor has to have this Big Impact is kinda unnecessary IMO. Yeah. Sometimes it's how the characters are affected that's important, and in this instance, it's the relationship between Clara and the Doctor. That doesn't mean you have to like Kill the Moon (I do), but the reason to hate it isn't that the characters didn't change history.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 04:15
|
|
|
How can you say kill the moon had no narritive importancw? How! Its the ep where clara finally calls the doctor out.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 14:06
|
|
|
 2197. The fighter-carrier Valiant has just crossed Pluto's orbital path. Its captain is expecting trouble from alien raiders. She is not expecting the Doctor and Evelyn. She does not believe members of her crew when they say they can hear an ancient bell ringing. A bell that strikes terror into their hearts. 1952. The Turret Class locomotive Ivy Lee is hurtling through the night. On board, there should only be two passengers: both of them carrying documents from the War Office. But now, there are also two unexpected visitors on the train. One is the guard with ill-fitting trousers, the other is an excessively dotty old lady. The Doctor and Evelyn have arrived and 'Time's End' is approaching. Colin Baker is the Doctor in The Nowhere Place. X X X X X Cast Colin Baker (The Doctor) Maggie Stables (Evelyn Smythe) Nicholas Briggs (Trevor Ridgely) Martha Cope (Captain Oswin) Stephen Critchlow (O'Keefe) Andrew Fettes (Master-at-Arms) John Killoran (Palmer) Benjamin Roddy (Operations) John Schwab (EXO Moore) Andrew Wisher (Armstrong) Philip Wolff (Hayman) Written By: Nicholas Briggs Directed By: Nicholas Briggs Trailer - http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/popout/the-nowhere-place-250 X X X X X I'm a sucker for horror stories set in or involving space. Alien. Lifeforce. Pandorum. Sunshine. Dead Space. Moon. Hell, even Jason X. And to go a little more niche, I love stories involving just how screwed up hyperspace and faster-than-life travel can be, which is best laid out in one of my favorite horror movies, Event Horizon.. Space is really, really, REALLY big. It's 384,400 kilometers from the Earth to the moon (238,900 miles for those of us who still use the archaic Imperial system) and for all of that distance, there's nothing. No air, no water, not even a WaWa or a Sheetz. It's four hundred and fifty million kilometers from Earth to Neptune, considered by NASA to be the edge of the solar system. And Voyager 1, the furthest man-made object ever launched into deep space (not counting The Power of the Daleks) is 19,549,473,900 kilometers from Earth. Doesn't this freak anyone else out?!? The Nowhere Place plays upon the concept of something waiting for humanity at the edge of the solar system; something so unfathomably alien and deadly that even the Doctor finds himself inexplicably frightened by it. The incredibly neat idea at the core of this story is sadly watered down by a third episode that brings the proceedings to a screeching halt, a poorly written and acted antagonist, and an ending that is wrapped up in a way that's just a little too neatly pat. In the year 2197, the space carrier Valiant is stationed at the edge of the solar system ,sending its elite squadron of Damocles fighters to battle against alien raiders preying on human shipping. However, its ace pilot is grounded by a case of nerves, the only symptom a ringing bell that only he can hear. The Doctor, taking the TARDIS and Evelyn to visit some friends at her college, is worrying his companion. Not just because they've heard a mysterious bell, but because Earth's history, something the Doctor knows like the back of his hand, has been altered. Past 2197, there is nothing, absolutely nothing. And that fact flat-out frightens the Doctor. As the Doctor tracks the source of the bell, he discovers that while the bell is being heard in 2197, the source of the bell is from 1952; a train carrying orders from the British War Office. Whatever the origin of the bell, its sound is enough to drive anyone who hears it mad, compelling them to fling themselves out of a mysterious door onboard Valiant – a door that leads in absolutely nothing. And more and more crewmen are hearing this bell... Nicholas Briggs has been a vital part of Doctor Who for years. He's been part of Big Finish since the very beginning (as well as working with Audio Visuals, the precursor to Big Finish) as a writer and a director, eventually becoming executive producer for the entire range of Big Finish audio dramas. Oh, and he just happens to be the television and audio voice for the Daleks, the Cybermen, the Judoon, Ice Warriors, Zygons, and the Nestene Consciousness. For Big Finish, he's penned The Sirens of Time, The Mutant Phase, Sword of Orion, Embrace the Darkness, and Creatures of Beauty. Briggs' earlier stories were solid efforts that aimed very high, but flawed enough that they just missed grabbing the brass ring. One could definitely see the improvement from story to story, however, with Creatures of Beauty being a true standout for the Fifth Doctor. Briggs, wearing all five hats with The Nowhere Place (writer, director, actor, producer, and sound guy!), once again leaves it all in the recording booth with this story, with mixed results. The sound on this story is amazing; the sterile environment of a naval ship, the shaking and clanging of a British Railways train, the sounds of people throwing themselves through a doorway into nothingness, the angry, bitter, hopeful voice of Hayman, and the simple but ominous clanging of a bell heralding the unstoppable feelings humanity must submit to. The story unfolds at a nice pace as well. With Briggs at the director's helm the listener never feels lost or confused, or most importantly, bored. The story is a unique one, and the big reveal in act four is epic in scale and one that catches the listener off-guard. Everything in the script does have a place...but some of those places should have been skipped over by the train on the CD cover. Three episodes of The Nowhere Place take place primarily on the Valiant. But the third episode takes place on 1952, on the mysterious train that is the source of the bell that compels humans to do whatever it takes to throw themselves through the doorway and gives even old Sixie a moment's pause as it's the most deadly thing in the world to him; something HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND. Something that freaks out the Doctor is a great story idea, but when the Doctor and Evelyn go to 1952, the story comes to a screeching halt. It makes sense why the Doctor and Evelyn go back to 1952, and what they find out there does tie into the story's overall plot. The Doctor's efforts to “blend in” by acting as a train conductor, especially when confronted by the soldier on the train, are amusing. And we get to see Evelyn use her intelligence to discuss matters with the lone passenger on the train, Trevor Ridgely, and how he relates to events in 2197. But the sudden shift in tone, pacing, and setting is incredibly jarring, almost as if the Doctor and Evelyn are dropping into another story altogether. The plot-relevant details from this third episode could have been revealed on board Valiant and kept the serial moving, instead of coming off as a 1970's/1980's BBC exec saying “we've got a set left over from Murder on the Orient Express, try to slide it into your next Doctor Who story so we can get our money’s worth, that's a good chap.” Even if using Valiant as a third-episode setting meant a shorter run time, the time could have been made up by expanding on the Doctor's moral dilemma that comes up during the story's climax. The big reveal of The Nowhere Place is an interesting one that immediately brought to mind the fate of previous species from Mass Effect or Dead Space, with the physical descriptions of what is beyond the door straight out of Warhammer 40,000 and its representation of the Warp . The reasoning behind this fate is one that's based from anger, regret and jealousy, and while the scope of if might not hold up under scrutiny, especially for a Time Lord with access to a TARDIS, it works within the framework of the story…although I’m willing to buy that someone who could build a hole in space that compels people to willingly walk through it would have the technological abilities to hide the truth of the big reveal from the Time Lords… The supporting cast can be split into two parts. In 1952, Briggs plays Trevor Ridgley, a scientist of some sort on his way to an early version of a military think tank to assist with the British efforts in the burgeoning Cold War. His mindless doodles about a faster-than-life propulsion system are vital for the Doctor's understanding of what's going on in 2197. Briggs plays the cocky scientist who is coy with Evelyn and cocky towards his military escort Armstrong (John Killoran, who is as military and reliant on orders as they come), charming but just smug enough for the listener to be wary about siding with him. He also plays alongside during the climax, showing up as Ridgley to provide someone for the Doctor to talk to, since Hayman, the alien beyond the door (played with great fury and anger by Philip Wolff) is too busy screaming after eons of imprisonment. Even when the door is hanging in deep space thanks to an explosion, the crew of Valiant will tear down bulkheads and break out of cyrogenic freezing to answer its call. The pilots and XO of Valiant (Stephen Critchlow, Andrew Fettes, John Schwab, Benjamin Roddy) are all solid as military personal who begin to panic as their military discipline break down as the bell begins to affect them. But the Commanding Officer of Valiant is the weak link in terms of acting. Martha Cope appeared as the Controller in the Ninth Doctor television story Bad Wolf. In The Nowhere Place she's Captain Tanya Oswin, and she is the furthest thing from military discipline and decisiveness. Cope doesn't give Oswin any sense of being worthy of being the captain of one of Earth's finest ships. She hems and haws, raises her voice, and comes off as incredibly panicky and indecisive the second things go sideways. Her orders seem more like “wild guesses” and less like “sound judgments.” Now, if these traits applied to the Captain AFTER Evelyn and the Doctor come back from 1952, then I could buy her characterization. But she's like this the MOMENT the Doctor and Evelyn are brought before her...and she's also exactly like this AFTER they return to Valiant from 1952 after being away for two months. Oswin comes off like she was already on the edge of sanity in a very Third Doctor-esque crazed military type way. It's the same problem I had with Peri and Erimem's two-year “vacation” in The Kingmaker, where they remained the exact same people at the end of the time period as they were at the start. Two months of losing her crew should have put Oswin on the edge of sanity...but she's the exact same person as she was when the first crewman threw himself through the door, except that now she has access to the rescue fleet’s nuclear weapons. Thankful, Maggie Stables and Colin Baker easily make up the acting deficit. I could listen to an entire audio that was nothing more than Evelyn and Six having a conversation in the TARDIS control room, as the chemistry between both the actors and the characters is simply amazing. It’s still a little weird to hear an Evelyn story after listening to her final story, Thicker Than Water, a few weeks ago. However there are still plenty of Six/Evelyn stories left for us to enjoy. I would slot The Nowhere Place, in terms of continuity if you care about that sort of thing, in before Project: Lazarus, as Evelyn goes through the emotional wringer in this story and I could see it contributing to her conversation with the Doctor about needing a break. We hear Evelyn’s concern for Six through a simple statement – “you let your tea get cold” – that says volumes about their friendship. And she’s right there alongside the Doctor, playing along with his schemes and backing up his insane attempts to prove that they belong on both Valiant and the military train. The true highlight of the story, however, is when Evelyn hears the bell. It’s sheer terror in Stables’ voice as she knows the fate that awaits her, but there’s also a sense of finality as she keeps repeating herself - “I must, I must, I must, I must.” It could have easily been another “brain worm” moment, but Stables is on top of her game, with the fear in her voice as she describes what lies beyond the doorway making the moment chilling instead of cheesy. And what can we say about Colin Baker? Once again, he proves just how great he is as the Sixth Doctor encounters something that he doesn’t understand…and it scares him. The loud, bombastic braggart is reduced to a scientist bumbling about in the dark. He knows what’s going on, but he can’t explain it, not even to an extent that would cause Captain Oswin to place any faith in him. She accuses him of wanting nothing more than to get in the TARDIS and leave…and Baker crushes it as Six explains that there’s nothing more he wants to do, but only to solve the mystery of why a bell from 1952 is causing Oswin’s crew to kill themselves. The anxiety is Baker’s voice is palpable, hanging thick in the air. While the third episode is a dramatic shift from tension to a bit of comedy, Baker’s attempts to fake being a train conductor provide a moment of levity that would fit perfectly into any other serial. During the climax of the story, Baker seems to channel (foreshadow?) Ten a little bit as he apologizes profusely to Hayman for what’s happened to him, but the quiet anger is still there for what Hayman has done over all those years. The Doctor has to make a very difficult choice, and Colin Baker does what he always does (hint – it involves being amazing) with it...but a little more time should have been given to that scene, to let the weight of the decision be felt by the listener a little more. And the story's ending, where Evelyn asks the Doctor what's wrong and the Doctor softly plays it off, robs the decision of its emotional value. A little more hand-wringing and monologuing from Six would have been the best possible ending for this story. While Baker does sells the moral quandary the Doctor faces, I wish Briggs’ script would have given him a bit of a chance to sell the aftermath, once the potential consequences of the decision have had a moment to set in. The Nowhere Place is worth a listen. It’s a story that, with a copy of tweaks, could have been a true classic. The concept is interesting, with Baker and Stables once again strongly on point and most of the secondary cast backing them up, and the reveal is one that could have had some strong consequences going forward for Big Finish if Briggs wanted to go that way. But with Oswin’s poor characterization brought about by a weak performance from the actress and a third episode that brings the proceedings to a screeching halt, The Nowhere Place ends up just short of being one of Big Finish’s most memorable stories. Pros + Interesting and unique concept + Great acting from Colin Baker and Maggie Stables Cons - A poor performance from Captain Oswin’s actress - Third episode out of place with the rest of the story  Synopsis – Original ideas and some terrifying moments get lost by The Nowhere Place being derailed due to a weak military antagonist and an out-of-place third episode that adds little to the rest of the story. 3/5 Next up - Subject 3999 - the Doctor. Subject has committed homicide. This subject now in constant redline. His propensity for violence remains unchecked. Analysis suggests synchronisation with the killer. The Doctor will attempt to kill again. He must be stopped... Sylvester McCoy is the Doctor in...Red. CobiWann fucked around with this message at 15:29 on May 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 15:26
|
|
|
I'm guessing your listening is a little ahead of your reviews, Cobi, so I'm interested to know, if you typically nod off for a bit during Big Finish, if Red's White Noise induced an immediate, pleasant slumber as soon as you hit the bus.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 15:44
|
|
|
I'm actually starting my listen this afternoon, so I will let you know...
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 16:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 08:29 |
|
|
CobiWann posted:I'm actually starting my listen this afternoon, so I will let you know... Despite its failings (and it does have a bunch), the voice acting and voice modulation for one of the characters may be my favorite that I've heard for Big Finish so far. Enjoy!
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2015 16:13
|
|