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Big Green Dad should be canon
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May 25, 2015 10:48
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Thinking about the first Broly movie it almost seems like thematically Gohan going SSJ2 would have been a better ending. I mean Broly pounds the gently caress out of everyone he cares about much as Cell does and it's at the right point in time for it to happen. But I guess that would take away from his moment against Cell. Still, Broly makes a great game character/final boss.
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May 25, 2015 12:34
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I really don't get why so many people hate on Broly. The only thing he does wrong is wear out his welcome with two more appearances than necessary. His first movie is tense, expands Saiyan lore quite a bit, has great fight scenes, and the animation is very high quality. He's also a unique villain for the franchise. Most every other big bad is a technical fighter, or becomes one after transformations. Broly is the only one who is just straight up a force of nature and doesn't even fight so much as pummel things into submission. If anything he's criminally under utilized. Broly should be the one villain that couldn't be defeated by beams or punchmans. His whole gimmick is that his power is unnatural and great enough to make even Vegeta piss himself and it keeps growing the longer he fights. He's Super Saiyan The Hulk. They should have had it so the gang was forced to use a wish to end his destruction or otherwise come up with a clever way of defeating him because he's just that powerful. But even without going that obvious route he's still legitimately terrifying as well as interesting if for no reason other than he's the only villain in the franchise that is a worse fighter than Goku but still kicks his poo poo in.
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May 25, 2015 13:29
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He's a boring as hell character with an incredibly stupid motivation (oh god that kid was crying the day he was born I WILL DEDICATE MY WHOLE LIFE TO KILLING HIM), with a nonsensical backstory (the Super Saiyan legend meant that one Super Saiyan had appeared a thousand years ago, not that there's a specific Legendary Super Saiyan beyond all Super Saiyans which makes no sense), who is always beaten in anticlimactic and random ways because the writer is really hung up on his beautiful boy being the most powerful being in existance. His existance also gave us Bio-Broly, which is terrible. Not to mention how the fandom likes exaggerating his powers even further to the point of making him this invincible super-being that gets stronger every minute and no one can defeat (see: Multiverse), obsessing over a character with a single personality trait (as mentioned before, the absolute hatred of a just-born kid who cried. When Broly himself had just been born too). Or how, because of the impossible to understand gigantic fandom he has, the games love to hype him up even further, so he appears loving everywhere even when it makes no sense (why the hell is he in Attack of the Saiyans?!), to the point that he and Bardock might have more playable appearances at this point than Goku himself. Using a wish to stop him is impossible, by the way. If wishes couldn't stop Vegeta, they won't stop Broly. The Dragon Balls can't kill people stronger than their creator. And even there, if you go that way you might as well do it for villains who are stronger than Broly himself, like Buu or Golden Freeza (or Beerus, but he doesn't really count as a villain)
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May 25, 2015 15:23
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SirDrone posted:Broly was so over the top evil and hammy and I love it, blows up a planet just to make children cry before giving the most jacked as gently caress slasher smile ever like he's legit loving jacked on to this poo poo. Also had the most hosed up death in the franchise. Best Brolly moments
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May 25, 2015 16:21
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Broly should have just had the first movie but because he got popular they had to make the other ones until we ended up with loving bio broly 
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May 25, 2015 17:12
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I want to live in the alternate timeline where Zangya and Bojack were the breakout stars of the android movie era instead of Anime Hulk.
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May 25, 2015 17:15
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projecthalaxy posted:I want to live in the alternate timeline where Zangya and Bojack were the breakout stars of the android movie era instead of Anime Hulk. Wish they would appear more in games. Games need more playable females, which is why I was actually happily surprised Videl was in Xenoverse.
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May 25, 2015 17:30
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The only cool thing about the Broly movies is the bit in the third one where 18 literally goes "gently caress this noise, I have a daughter to be thinking about!" and considers buggering off.
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May 25, 2015 17:34
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projecthalaxy posted:I want to live in the alternate timeline where Zangya and Bojack were the breakout stars of the android movie era instead of Anime Hulk. Bojack was boring as gently caress all and served more as a side story to the retelling of Gohan's rise in power. Broly is cool because he looks cool and has a pretty unique character compared to almost every other antagonist besides Buu
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May 25, 2015 17:52
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One of the things I ask regarding any Dragon Ball character is "Would They Be Any Fun To Play As In A Dragon Ball Fighting Game?" which is a question that when asked about Broly the answer is a solid yes, at least going by the Budokai Tenkaichi games that is(but then again in BT3 one of the only characters that isn't fun to play with is sadly Captain Ginyu, as they gave him an incredibly awful moveset, with Body Change being completely useless as a move, also the Androids, and several other robotic characters having a really awful Ki Charge mechanic making them annoying to play as)
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May 25, 2015 21:49
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Esroc posted:great enough to make even Vegeta piss himself That's loving stupid.
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May 25, 2015 22:16
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One of these days I really need to watch the DBZ movies, cause the way everyone talks about Bio-Broly makes it sound amazing. How many of them did they actually dub?
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May 25, 2015 22:28
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Momomo posted:One of these days I really need to watch the DBZ movies, cause the way everyone talks about Bio-Broly makes it sound amazing. How many of them did they actually dub? I think it's all of them.
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May 25, 2015 22:29
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Momomo posted:One of these days I really need to watch the DBZ movies, cause the way everyone talks about Bio-Broly makes it sound amazing. How many of them did they actually dub? All of them. Prepare to be disappointed, by the way. Not even the adventures of Mr. Satan and his apprentice 18 can save that movie.
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May 25, 2015 22:30
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From the perspective of making a DBZ tabletop game, which is a group activity, characters like Broly and Hildegarn are actually kind of useful. In order to make things fun for everyone, you can't really be relegating the majority of the players to standing on a cliff and going "UNREAL! IS THIS HIS TRUE POWER?" for an entire session. No matter how accurate it is. So huge berserker monsters with ridiculous power ratings that require the whole team to bring down? Rad. Also, teams of equally-powered villains (who may or may not have their own super sentai poses) who match the number of player characters 1:1? Similarly rad. Anything to stop people from getting bored, really. Mind you, I'm not into the "premade adventures for you to run" part just yet. Still working out the basic mechanics of throwing kamehamehas and dying repeatedly, and the whole "what you do when you're not punching punchmans" stuff, because the wacky soap opera side of DBZ is just as fun as the gratuitous fighting part and deserves equal recognition. If anyone is interested I could give some examples and/or a rundown of what the game is like so far and how it plays.
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May 25, 2015 22:53
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A dragon ball z tabletop is fundamentally flawed because you either break from the source material or you have a party of people who all fight the same way.
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May 25, 2015 23:00
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Breaking from the source material is kind of the point of basing an rpg off your favorite Fandom thing. Having your own adventures in your favorite universe, etc.
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May 25, 2015 23:12
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Stairmaster posted:A dragon ball z tabletop is fundamentally flawed because you either break from the source material or you have a party of people who all fight the same way. Really what you need to do is make it more or less from the ground up or use a very rules light system. Trying to append dragonball into 13th age, or pathfinder, or most existing rpg systems is in many ways an exercise in futility because they simply aren't designed that way. Something like Fate or FAE can work for a dragonball game because it is generic as gently caress. If you want a game with crunchy rules it has to be designed from the ground up to take it account how different shonen and dragonball are from most modern rpg. Personally I would do that by hamming up the source material and genre conventions, include concepts such as a 'screen time' resource pool that drains faster for stronger characters so Goku only shows up for the primo fights, or the "new normal" levelling system where the players get reset to a low level at the end of every arc of game play and super saiyan/sage mode/bankai/gear 2nd becomes the basic fighting style and so forth. Just my two cents anyway.
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May 25, 2015 23:18
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Fuego Fish posted:From the perspective of making a DBZ tabletop game, which is a group activity, characters like Broly and Hildegarn are actually kind of useful. In order to make things fun for everyone, you can't really be relegating the majority of the players to standing on a cliff and going "UNREAL! IS THIS HIS TRUE POWER?" for an entire session. No matter how accurate it is. Yeah but that's not a function of the enemies in DBZ, but a function of strength disparities among the main cast.Obviously pre-super saiyan Goku is still the strongest, and the man saving the day, but it's not comparable to the post-super-saiyan world where super saiyan forms are the new "you must be this tall to ride"
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May 25, 2015 23:18
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Fuego Fish posted:From the perspective of making a DBZ tabletop game, which is a group activity, characters like Broly and Hildegarn are actually kind of useful. In order to make things fun for everyone, you can't really be relegating the majority of the players to standing on a cliff and going "UNREAL! IS THIS HIS TRUE POWER?" for an entire session. No matter how accurate it is. One more thing, you need to embrace the source material. Give characters extra traits for free like "S-such power" that allow them to give bonuses to a lead Fisher or otherwise assist in combat from the sidelines when there is a 1 V 1
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May 25, 2015 23:22
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I thought Exalted was DBZ, the Pen and Paper game? 
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May 25, 2015 23:28
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Thyrork posted:I thought Exalted was DBZ, the Pen and Paper game? Funny thing, I have no experience with it myself, but I've heard a hilarious analogy that described the gameplay as Bleach The RPG. Because everybody fires off all their overpowered ultimate techniques in a row, but it keeps getting blocked by the villain's equally overpowered perfect defenses.
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May 25, 2015 23:35
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Is a perfect defense overpowered if it works perfectly
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May 26, 2015 00:15
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Stairmaster posted:A dragon ball z tabletop is fundamentally flawed because you either break from the source material or you have a party of people who all fight the same way. Why not tone down the emphasis on beams (relegating them more to finishing moves/super attacks) and get more granular with fighting styles? Seems like an obvious solution, and gels nicely with the source material.
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May 26, 2015 00:17
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I make tabletop game systems for fun every once in a while and the DBZ one I came up with has three major systems: 1) a "stakes" counter that made everything bigger and stronger and more flashy depending on how much is at risk, like a friendly duel or someone to wants to kill all humans to dudes who want to see the galaxy burn 2) a spotlight initiative system where one or two players are in control of a given fight until they're outmaneuvered or overpowered, so you could body some no-name henchmen but you're constantly going back and forth with people slightly stronger than you, and people have to fight outside of their league sometimes to hold off a powerful enemy while they buy time for their allies to power up 3) your moves are more powerful if you actually yell the kemehameha part and do poses and "charge up" or you can only go super saiyan or fuse if you do the motions IRL, but doing so immediately raises the stakes by a notch and makes everything a little more deadly it was a dumb a little game not meant for any serious long-term play but me and some bros had some fun with it
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May 26, 2015 00:18
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Stairmaster posted:Is a perfect defense overpowered if it works perfectly It's more like necessary. Basically, Exalted was made by White Wolf who don't really get game mechanics. By the end game of 2e, you can perfect attack and perfect defend thus making it a game of who has the most motes, the resource to use powers. You just keep perfect attacking and perfect defending until one side runs out of motes and dies. Defenders win ties hence why perfect attacks fail to perfect defenses.
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May 26, 2015 00:21
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Covok posted:Defenders win ties hence why perfect attacks fail to perfect defenses. So the old shield and spear debate is solved? Fuego Fish posted:From the perspective of making a DBZ tabletop game, which is a group activity, characters like Broly and Hildegarn are actually kind of useful. In order to make things fun for everyone, you can't really be relegating the majority of the players to standing on a cliff and going "UNREAL! IS THIS HIS TRUE POWER?" for an entire session. No matter how accurate it is. This is why I find One Piece works better as a tabletop. one Piece tends to have big teams of baddies with varying power and each member can participate, then you have the occasional Oars style bad guy where you need the whole crew to beat up.
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May 26, 2015 00:40
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Stairmaster posted:A dragon ball z tabletop is fundamentally flawed because you either break from the source material or you have a party of people who all fight the same way. This isn't a particularly serious endeavour. The rules encourage you to yell at the table, to goof about, and have fun. Each character sheet has a space where you record how many times you've died. It is more to the spirit of being a punchmans fan, rather than the actual "canon" of any sort. Possibly best played with a lot of snacks and maybe a bit of alcohol. Exercu posted:Yeah but that's not a function of the enemies in DBZ, but a function of strength disparities among the main cast.Obviously pre-super saiyan Goku is still the strongest, and the man saving the day, but it's not comparable to the post-super-saiyan world where super saiyan forms are the new "you must be this tall to ride" The main cast have a strength disparity because they're the main cast of a shonen manga, where you need a protagonist who is the only one who can handle the big threats, because that's what a protagonist does. Krillin isn't on par with Goku because he doesn't need to be on par with Goku, from a narrative perspective. Games don't have that same sort of narrative going on, because it's a group activity. Caros posted:One more thing, you need to embrace the source material. Give characters extra traits for free like "S-such power" that allow them to give bonuses to a lead Fisher or otherwise assist in combat from the sidelines when there is a 1 V 1 The playbooks for the game are divided up into "species" - for a pretty loose value of species in some cases. But there's an Earthling playbook which is designed to let you play as a Krillin, Yamcha, or other sort of scrappy underdog character who doesn't get crazy alien powers like giant monkey mode or regeneration. Earthlings do best when lending support to others, or being supported by others. They also get experience for dying a lot, so you can embrace your inner Krillin and just constantly throw yourself into terrible situations and trust that there's like a billion sets of dragon balls to bring you back afterwards. Because there basically is. Their abilities include having senzu beans, and a move called "My Best Friend! NOOO!" where they provide a big power boost to another player's character if they die. They also gain experience if they actually land the killing blow on a major enemy, which is called "The High Point of My Career".
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May 26, 2015 00:52
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Covok posted:It's more like necessary. Basically, Exalted was made by White Wolf who don't really get game mechanics. By the end game of 2e, you can perfect attack and perfect defend thus making it a game of who has the most motes, the resource to use powers. You just keep perfect attacking and perfect defending until one side runs out of motes and dies. This is absolutely the case. I would say if you want to try it out try out 3E when it comes out in like a few months! though that has it's own share of issues, most of those are related to the developers then the game- especially if you're doing it as a DBZ thing because then yo udon't have to touch Craft.
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May 26, 2015 01:16
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Stairmaster posted:A dragon ball z tabletop is fundamentally flawed because you either break from the source material or you have a party of people who all fight the same way. It kinda faded into the background as all the characters learned each other's techniques and the show started to focus on naturally super-powered aliens & demons, but early on there was a good amount of differentiation between the Crane and Turtle school, too. Crane school was super crazy with all kinds of weird unique psychic attacks and a huge focus on ki techniques, like flying and beam spam. Chiaozu was the first one to shoot ki blasts all over the place; with the Crane-style Dodon finger-blast you could shoot off a whole bunch of smaller, weaker blasts much more quickly than a Kamehameha. Turtle school was more about focusing on fundamentals, with ki blasts basically relegated to a finishing technique that isn't used lightly. Remember that Roshi considered even basic flight to be too gimmicky to be a respectable fighting technique. You could definitely do some good class stuff just with those two schools, with Turtle disciples as more of a straightforward fighter and Crane disciples as more of a support with lots of weird situational ki/psychic abilities and debuffs. Pet classes (saibamen, dr gero type with robots, bibidi wizard type) and healer-fighters (nameks, others) would be totally workable, too.
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May 26, 2015 01:30
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For that, you could take inspiration from Dragon Ball Online, since there the Turtle and Crane Schools are two different classes and therefore work rather differenly from each other, and there's healing and magic classes and whatnot. I honestly think a Dragon Ball tabletop would be possible, as long as you ignore the actual events of the series and just wrote your own thing in the Dragon World. No Goku to steal the spotlight.
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May 26, 2015 01:39
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Blaze Dragon posted:For that, you could take inspiration from Dragon Ball Online, since there the Turtle and Crane Schools are two different classes and therefore work rather differenly from each other, and there's healing and magic classes and whatnot. There's no real "classes" to speak of. You pick a playbook that is your origin - Android, Saiyan, Earthling, etc. whatever - and then you consult the Big Bumper Book of Martial Arts (working title) and give yourself a certain number of moves from that list. So you can make yourself a Goku by being a Saiyan with the Kamehameha and the Kaio-ken and Spirit Bomb, but you could also be an Android with the same move set. Or give yourself Freeza's Death Bullet finger-beam, Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon, and the Destructo Disk and really go nuts. The only thing you need to be aware of is what works best with your abilities. If you are a punch-focused punchmans, don't take only beams and blasts! Either way, ideally character creation takes somewhere in the region of 10-15 minutes tops. The game is called "Dragon Ball Parallels" and it is its own world. The idea is that everyone's character comes from some alternate timeline or paradox event that's been unceremoniously folded into a new universe in order to clean up the timestream. Unfortunately, a whole lot of villains have ended up in the same universe for the same reason, so you're left with a DBZ world where there's no Goku, just you. Unless you're literally playing Goku, I guess, which (as I said) is an option. This way you can have three "last surviving members of the Saiyan race" on the team, along with an Android-ified Doctor Gero from a universe where the Red Ribbon Army was a force for peace, a talking cat Earthling who throws Spirit Bombs at everything, and a Namekian called Big Green. Alternate timelines! It all works.
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May 26, 2015 01:55
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So it's basically Xenoverse?
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May 26, 2015 02:37
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Why does it have to be Literally DBZ? Why not just something inspired by it?
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May 26, 2015 02:48
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LORD OF BUTT posted:Why does it have to be Literally DBZ? Why not just something inspired by it? Well, it doesn't? Games that are just similar to DBZ are great too and already exist as has been mentioned.
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May 26, 2015 02:59
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DBZ is hella fun, that's why. Some of y'all need to pull that power pole outta your rear end.
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May 26, 2015 03:01
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Fuego Fish posted:There's no real "classes" to speak of. You pick a playbook that is your origin - Android, Saiyan, Earthling, etc. whatever - and then you consult the Big Bumper Book of Martial Arts (working title) and give yourself a certain number of moves from that list. So you can make yourself a Goku by being a Saiyan with the Kamehameha and the Kaio-ken and Spirit Bomb, but you could also be an Android with the same move set. Or give yourself Freeza's Death Bullet finger-beam, Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon, and the Destructo Disk and really go nuts. The only thing you need to be aware of is what works best with your abilities. If you are a punch-focused punchmans, don't take only beams and blasts! Either way, ideally character creation takes somewhere in the region of 10-15 minutes tops. So, is this a PbtA game because it sounds like it. Which is a fine system, but requires a lot of customization to the source material to make it work.
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May 26, 2015 04:26
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No clue if I've mentioned this in this thread, but Feng Shui: The Hong Kong action cinema RPG could handily cover Dragon Ball, and eventually Z if the PCs get strong enough. It's designed for cinematic martial arts combat. And sorcery. And abilities for humans with the Chi of animals. And cybernetics. And car chases. And Demons. And gun fighting. It emphasizes melodrama, fast play, and heroic bloodshed.
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May 26, 2015 04:41
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Krillin is the only character to die in every single series (once in Dragon Ball, twice in Z, and again in GT). Does anyone want to bet if Super will carry on the tradition?
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May 26, 2015 05:29
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