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Givin posted:I remember reading an old interview with some Everquest devs about how they were appalled that players were using feign death as a means to pull mobs and retrieve corpses and not running into each room guns blazing fighting all the monsters like they had envisioned I tried this in three different MMOs and it always ended in my horrible death. If MMO-devs want people to go in guns blazing, I suggest more and weaker enemies or something. Based on my experiences, not a popular opinion among developers, it seems.
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May 25, 2015 21:38
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Givin posted:I remember reading an old interview with some Everquest devs about how they were appalled that players were using feign death as a means to pull mobs and retrieve corpses and not running into each room guns blazing fighting all the monsters like they had envisioned Yeah I was specifically thinking of EQ while writing it haha. Most of the wacky poo poo you can do in EQ is a bug that never got fixed or players demanded to keep it. And I think that's why it's just not around in modern games. They specifically squash bugs like that because it's not "True to The Vision." Other wacky EQ tricks: Shadowknights can swarm entire low-ish dungeons for massive AAs. There is 0 reason to even go into out-of-era zones in most MMOs nowadays. Necros can kite 10 mobs at a time. Mages can pet tank raid bosses. Enchanters have 3x more effective HP than warriors with absorb runes that they can cast constantly. Along with charms, roots, slows, mezzes and aggro fades. Wizards can double-invis their entire group (Invis vs Undead, and normal Invis). Speaking of, do mmos even need invisibility that much anymore? darkhand fucked around with this message at 21:47 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 25, 2015 21:39
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:What are FF14'S glaring issues? It's the most fun MMO I've played so far. I disliked how tiny the zones were. So many loading screens. Also it forced me to change my password every few times I logged in because dynamic IP. Most games might just send you email with a code to enter on the login screen but FFIX does this and forces you to change your password. Couldn't find a way to turn that off. Sounds like a tiny thing but it was a pain in the bum when I just wanted to get some grind on. Apart from that it seemed decent enough.
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May 25, 2015 21:48
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Berious posted:I disliked how tiny the zones were. So many loading screens. That annoyed the gently caress out of me. Fortunately you can get rid of it by using an authenticator.
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May 25, 2015 21:54
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darkhand posted:That's my problem with a lot of modern MMOs, they're too sterile and well tuned that you never get to feel stronger. I liked using Weird Old Tricks that most games just don't have anymore; kiting, charming, reverse charming, absorb tanking are pretty funny and good. Even the art of pulling used to be pretty engaging, but it doesn't seem needed anymore. Obligatory City of Heroes mention. poo poo got so stupid in that game in the best way. Like, hey there's 30 dudes over there, let's go jump in the middle of them all and piss em off! 
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May 25, 2015 21:55
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:That annoyed the gently caress out of me. Fortunately you can get rid of it by using an authenticator. Oh cool might give it another whirl if that's fixable. Thanks.
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May 25, 2015 22:00
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Berious posted:Oh cool might give it another whirl if that's fixable. Thanks. The authenticator is still a bit annoying, but you get to have a free teleport location as compensation.
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May 25, 2015 22:14
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WarLocke posted:Obligatory City of Heroes mention. It swung the other way towards the end, with the aggro limit and max target limits in general. Hey you know a cool game doesn't have an aggro limit or dumb 5-target max on attacks???
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May 25, 2015 22:44
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Byolante posted:I didn't ever say FF14 was a bad game overall if it helps. I was just saying that its not a universally awesome experience that people seem to claim a lot. I think if they changed inventory to match how it works in wow, let you que for dungeons while you have your chocobo out, not lock instances behind story quests and let everyone have a house then it would be a better mmo than wow. I still wouldn't play it because I am done with mmos but its a real shame that some of the game is so bad because the rest is so good. Is there any real logic to the apparent housing limit. I played FF14 to max back when 2.0 happened but then had to quit 'cause of school and other stuff. Was considering starting back up for summer, so hearing about this housing thing is a huge bummer.
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May 25, 2015 23:45
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Oh Snapple! posted:Is there any real logic to the apparent housing limit. Because the Final Fantasy devs hate their players.
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May 25, 2015 23:58
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Oh Snapple! posted:Is there any real logic to the apparent housing limit. Artificial scarcity makes the people who have it feel special? I've never had anywhere near enough money to even think about it. I have enough for a guild room, but the jerks have delusions of getting a bigger place so I'm holding off. Deki posted:Because the Final Fantasy devs hate their players. And that.
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May 26, 2015 00:04
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darkhand posted:That's my problem with a lot of modern MMOs, they're too sterile and well tuned that you never get to feel stronger. I liked using Weird Old Tricks that most games just don't have anymore; kiting, charming, reverse charming, absorb tanking are pretty funny and good. Even the art of pulling used to be pretty engaging, but it doesn't seem needed anymore. Have I got great news for you!
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May 26, 2015 00:12
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+1. Project Gorgon is weird and fun and good. It's an old-school rpg/mmo minus (most of) the masochism.
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May 26, 2015 00:30
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I never got the appeal of player housing. Hell, wow's take on it is killing their game. Guild housing is cool, though.
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May 26, 2015 00:49
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Minrad posted:I never got the appeal of player housing. Hell, wow's take on it is killing their game. Guild housing is cool, though. Never really did much for me either. In what way is WoW's housing "killing their game" though? I suspect an exaggeration.
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May 26, 2015 00:52
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Minrad posted:I never got the appeal of player housing. Hell, wow's take on it is killing their game. Guild housing is cool, though. I liked dressing up my LOTRO house with fun trophies and lawn ornaments. Chomp8645 posted:Never really did much for me either. In what way is WoW's housing "killing their game" though? It's basically a facebook/mobile game that's taken over every non-raiding aspect of the expansion and you literally have no reason to ever leave the thing. It more or less brought the skinner-box aspect to the forefront of people's minds instead of letting it just remain the background as it has been over the years when players were at least engaged enough with actual content to not think about it.
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May 26, 2015 01:02
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In terms of "everyone just sits in their garrison, queues up follower missions and otherwise only logs on for a few raids every week", the complete opposite of what Blizzard intended when they removed dungeon reputation tabards in Mists of Pandaria, and flying in Warlords of Draenor.
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May 26, 2015 01:04
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Housing creates another ancillary progression path in the form of decorations. It's another princess to make pretty. There's really nothing wrong with the concept, with the exception that it may not be worth the effort to produce all those art assets for housing furniture, as opposed to some other cosmetic stuff like costumes or mounts, if there's a chance the housing system is only specific to one expansion (which is likely to be the case with Draenor). I don't think the way WOW did housing necessarily means housing in general is bad. WOW screwed up by having extremely few ways to cosmetically customize your garrison and by making the majority of the non-raiding based activities outside of your garrison extremely boring. The garrison followers were okay as a Facebook minigame, but they could have been much better. The game also lets you pick one of your followers as bodyguards that follow you around as fake group members SWTOR-style. Instead of the Facebook minigame, I think the bodyguard system is what they should have revolved the whole expansion meta-game around. The basic gameplay loop should have been something like: make all content in the world is 3-man group content and is tiered based on item level; you can choose multiple bodyguards instead of just a single one to form a small 3-man posse; completing world content with your bodyguards (or actual people) grants you rewards that are both cosmetic and material; and you use those rewards in your garrison to craft better gear for your followers which then enables tougher content in the world. That's kinda how I was hoping it would go down when I first read about garrisons and followers, but instead we got Farmville. Edit: ^ The lack of flight in WoD is irritating but having flight won't make doing the non-raiding content any more fun. Apexis crystal grinds are still boring and stupid whether you can fly to them or not. Archeology probably would get easier, but archeology is boring as hell to start with. Minsky fucked around with this message at 01:49 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 01:46
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Minrad posted:I never got the appeal of player housing. Hell, wow's take on it is killing their game. Guild housing is cool, though. That's actually the one area where Wildstar is better than other games on the market, because their housing actually has stuff to do besides design it. You can add daily quests to your plot, etc. Well that's my "compliment Wildstar" quota for the week. Chomp8645 posted:Never really did much for me either. In what way is WoW's housing "killing their game" though? What you can do in the Garrison (get gold, crafting mats) is easier and more lucrative than trying to do it in the world, and if you are lazy you can get tier-you've-played+1 raid tokens without leaving. The things that actually require you to leave the Garrison (Reputations, Apexis Dailies, etc) aren't worth doing even if they offer something you can't get just by logging into the Garrison for about four minutes a night. Mormon Star Wars fucked around with this message at 02:07 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 02:04
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darkhand posted:That's my problem with a lot of modern MMOs, they're too sterile and well tuned that you never get to feel stronger. I liked using Weird Old Tricks that most games just don't have anymore; kiting, charming, reverse charming, absorb tanking are pretty funny and good. Even the art of pulling used to be pretty engaging, but it doesn't seem needed anymore. I kinda wanna dissect these things, as aside from being in the XIV cult I am also a FFXI survivor. Which is basically Everquest but Japanese. I don't entirely think it's that you feel weak right now, as well from what I remember about EQ and FFXI it's about letting you know that not only do you feel weak, but you are weak, and this rabbit 10 levels under you is going to tear you a new rear end in a top hat if you look at it funny. It did make the world feel bigger because there was a constant sense of unease exploring places, a feeling that you are not meant to be here, but you cheeky rear end in a top hat, you did it anyway. That is fun, but it can be stressful and it certainly can make traveling a right bitch. Like spending 2 hours to get wherever you're going for the night bitch. Sure it makes the world feel immersive and huge, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to not be stuck in digital traffic so I can just do the game parts of the fun game I'm playing. Pulling is another ancillary of the dangerous world and a thing with not having dungeons. In that basically the world is so evil and dangerous, the best way to level is to set up in a safe stable location with minimal respawns. (Your camp) Then since the party has no chance out in the wilds, it is the job of the guy with the longest attack range to Solid Snake their way around, grab the easy mobs to kill and bring em back to be summarily destroyed. Sure it's a great art, and good pullers were amazing for you exp/hour, but it's a relic of the world being so hostile. Dungeons, instanced dungeons, alleviated that, and also made leveling a bit more exciting. Now you're progressing through a place, getting a change of scenery, maybe fighting new things. If you can something make pulling vital without it meaning you are rooted to one spot for hours on end, sure, but I think it only was vital because of that condition. I'm not entirely sure what you meant by absorb tanking? Like they use shields? Or just don't get hit? The closest analogue to that is FFXI's ninja, who had a spell that generated X numbers of clones that took hits for you. Ninja was MEANT to be a dps, and getting hit while you had this spell active even lost you a great deal of aggro. But it didn't matter. It was so ludicrously overpowered that ninja overtook all other tanking jobs, rendering them useless because tanking and taking no damage is better than tanking and taking damage. Sure it was a one weird trick and playing counter to the way devs intended it, but it kind of ruined a portion of the game. As for absorb healing, it is alive and well. WoW has disc priests, XIV has Scholars and their massive on demands shields. It just swapped from the tank to the healer and isn't so powerful that that's all you need to survive. Lastly on kiting, I am glad that has seen a cruel death. I certainly remember bosses in XI that took kiting to kill and good gods were they 2-3 hour snore fests of running in a circle. Kiting also ruins the fantasy of being a badass mage. I mentioned I didn't enjoy casters til Aion and that's because in the games I played before then as a caster you were meant to kite, it was annoying and fiddly and all it does it make you feel weak. Aion said gently caress that just blow poo poo up. And it was fun. Now...kiting world bosses to cities? I am all for that and it should happen more.
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May 26, 2015 02:39
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I know exactly what you mean by the AoE check thing in FFXIV, because I had it at launch, but they've fixed it since then so it's a non issue. It does take getting used to using the cast bar as the indicator of when to be out of the aoe instead of the animation, but in some ways it's better because good tanks can dodge aoes and run back in during the animation without taking damage so the boss doesn't turn around. Also, I found out today there's an option in FFXIV to view all of your bags at once, so that's cool. (character config>character>inventory interface - expanded) Most of the people I've seen complaining about ffxiv were complaining about just the mmo market in general, and I don't think I've seen anyone claiming that ffxiv is revolutionary, just that it's the best AAA mmo on the market right now. It is very much a AAA mmo, with all of the bad and the good, it just happens to be the best right now. Some people are just coming to grips with the fact that they've outgrown MMOs and need to free themselves of the shackles of being an MMO player and actually have a happy and productive life instead of being miserable like the rest of us. Or go play project gorgon because you are the very worst of us and just can't help yourselves. It's okay, this is a safe place.
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May 26, 2015 02:44
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Minsky posted:Edit: ^ The lack of flight in WoD is irritating It would've been irritating if there was any point in actually outside in the first place. Apexis was mildly tolerable with raid groups but they obviously had to nerf that too because lol. I don't feel any desire to resub for tanaan content, gently caress that. Who's with me. cthulhoo fucked around with this message at 08:48 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 08:44
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Aion had mainly areas with easy mobs for solo players and areas that you could only survive as a full group. Or as a skilled kiter. There were even pretty hardcore world bosses. And those group areas were actually populated. Not by the majority of players, but a significant amount of players were still enjoying that kind of gameplay.
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May 26, 2015 09:00
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So someone said ff14 wasnt literally gods gift to man so we got 50 posts of people defending their game again? Yeah 4 actions every 10 seconds sure must be a fun mmo to play. I typed this message using the ff14 gcd tool and it only took me 25 minutes, im clearly a superior and well thought out typist.
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May 26, 2015 09:04
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Byolante posted:In WoW, which is a terrible game for its own reasons, you don't need to: I will say that not having a more definite breadcrumb trail leading thru dungeons in BC is what contributed to be quitting WoW after experimenting with it again between ffxiv patches. I played vanilla up to naxx but had quit ever since. When I got back it just felt like everything was wildly disconnected and I had no clear path through the content and everyone dungeon finder I did was full of demigods beating every boss in ten hits. If I wanted to I could have just hit the dungeon finder every day and leveled up to try the challenging current level raids but it just didn't pull me in. So while it can feel annoying to have dungeons gated behind story content I think it might be an advantage later on especially if they keep the ilvl sync
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May 26, 2015 09:05
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Mormon Star Wars posted:That's actually the one area where Wildstar is better than other games on the market, because their housing actually has stuff to do besides design it. You can add daily quests to your plot, etc. Well that's my "compliment Wildstar" quota for the week. I mean it's the only thing in the game that was, but I'll give it its due for that. My main worry about MMOs in the long run is people taking the wrong idea from Wildstar's failure and not looking at the few things it did do right. It's the same thing that happened to Warhammer Online, the only MMO that actually had fun healing. Double Monocle posted:So someone said ff14 wasnt literally gods gift to man so we got 50 posts of people defending their game again? 
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May 26, 2015 09:20
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Oh Snapple! posted:Is there any real logic to the apparent housing limit. It's because the game's zone and instancing system literally cannot handle opening enough housing wards. FFXIV's technical debt is immense because of ARR's rushed development and the game will continue to pay for it in ways big and small.
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May 26, 2015 09:27
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gently caress SE. Stupid fuckers. At least they learned from their mistakes, but imagine what we could have if it was done right from the beginning.
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May 26, 2015 09:30
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:gently caress SE. Stupid fuckers. At least they learned from their mistakes, but imagine what we could have if it was done right from the beginning. A thousand deaths for tanaka
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May 26, 2015 09:40
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Double Monocle posted:So someone said ff14 wasnt literally gods gift to man so we got 50 posts of people defending their game again? Lol
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May 26, 2015 09:43
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I can't imagine playing final fantasy because its a anime for children. AMA.
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May 26, 2015 09:48
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Double Monocle posted:Yeah 4 actions every 10 seconds sure must be a fun mmo to play. I typed this message using the ff14 gcd tool and it only took me 25 minutes, im clearly a superior and well thought out typist. i'm not sure why, but you remind me of people who were angry about gw2's "welfare epics" when Anet announced that getting a full set of best gear is very easy and that there won't be any gear progression endgame
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May 26, 2015 09:52
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RottenK posted:i'm not sure why, but you remind me of people who were angry about gw2's "welfare epics" when Anet announced that getting a full set of best gear is very easy and that there won't be any gear progression endgame haha yeah bro wanting to play a game more engaging than 24 actions per minute is total grognard life bro
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May 26, 2015 10:05
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 goty imo 
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May 26, 2015 10:15
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Catgirls and potatoes are the best races in FF14.  
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May 26, 2015 10:18
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ew i guess this explains the glacial gcd, people need time to crank it to their animes between actions cthulhoo fucked around with this message at 10:22 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 10:20
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cthulhoo posted:i guess this explains the glacial gcd, people need time to crank it to their animes between actions ew
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May 26, 2015 10:34
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if you think a significant portion of xiv's playerbase (or any mmo, really) isn't cranking it to their characters between pulls you don't understand this genre tbh
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May 26, 2015 11:17
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Thunderbro posted:haha yeah bro wanting to play a game more engaging than 24 actions per minute is total grognard life bro yes
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May 26, 2015 11:21
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RottenK posted:yes do you only play turn based games?
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May 26, 2015 11:45
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