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Cythereal posted:Also, bear in mind that the Swiss are already conducting their own investigation in the USDOJ's wake and the British government has already made noises about siccing their Serious Fraud Office (I think that's what the BBC story called it) on FIFA. If the US can bite a big chunk out of FIFA, I'd expect several other nations to start a feeding frenzy. The SFO investigation has been going on for months. They're just joining up with the Americans and Swiss.
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May 29, 2015 22:02
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Powercrazy posted:So when this investigation implicates that literally every single team in the EUFA is guilty of the same charges what happens? Does the corruption become de facto acceptable and then after the head of FIFA gets taken down it just goes back to business as usual? Yes, but it'll also probably be less overt going forward, assuming these guys end up in jail for a long time. There'll still be corruption, but probably not literal bags of cash being handed out to delegates for their vote.
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May 29, 2015 22:04
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Xandu posted:Yes, but it'll also probably be less overt going forward, assuming these guys end up in jail for a long time. There'll still be corruption, but probably not literal bags of cash being handed out to delegates for their vote. From what I've been reading, this is also kinda what most fans expect/realistically want. World Cup in Russia, probably corrupt but basically fine. World Cup in Qatar,  Edit: Count Brazil and Costa Rica in, too. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 22:11 on May 29, 2015 |
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May 29, 2015 22:09
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Coldbird posted:What they mean specifically when they're asking 'what RICO means' is how and why making these charges against the mid level executives somehow constitutes a threat to Blatter or even FIFA as an organization. Yeah, one of the big ideas behind using RICO is catching the high-level guys who are so deeply rooted in, but completely out of the illegal side by now as to be untouchable until you link all the crime to those beneath and connected to them. In a large organization someone will always turn when facing a harsh sentence, and then in turn, maybe others. I'd love to see how this plays out though, because it's been common knowledge to so many familiar with FIFA that there is all kinds of corruption. These guys have all the hallmarks of a mafia-like organization, but they weren't getting pinched for years to figure out how to go about it as cleverly. I hope they crumble. If only the feds seemed to have the same interest in going after certain other wealthy and powerful loose organizations.
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May 29, 2015 22:11
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Xandu posted:Yes, but it'll also probably be less overt going forward, assuming these guys end up in jail for a long time. There'll still be corruption, but probably not literal bags of cash being handed out to delegates for their vote. It's funny; people probably think when they read that, that this is just exaggerating for effect and nobody went full bugs bunny handing out bags with dollar symbols on them while winking conspiratorically. This is actually a good mental picture of just how loving obvious this scheme was; these guys have been doing this for so long and have felt so goddamned untouchable doing it it wouldn't surprise me for a nanosecond if these people were literally delivered big bags of cash by prostitutes covered in cocaine. At special award ceremonies. Completely shameless.
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May 29, 2015 22:15
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A Winner is Jew posted:Think of it like the SEC/FTC levying fines is the UN issuing strongly worded statements on a country, the DOJ bringing charges is the US invading a country, and the DOJ using RICO is the US saying YOLO and nuking every square inch of a country. Yeah, one thing that foreigners may be having a difficult time realizing is that if the DOJ is going after you you really are hosed. The system is massively unfair even against people who are actually innocent. When you're this guilty and this stupid, too? It's over. These guys are getting to see the "highest incarceration rate in the world" side of America. These white corporate executives are about to be legally tried as if they were poor minorities.
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May 29, 2015 22:15
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As expected, Sepp got elected again. I guess decades long corruption under his watch isn't enough to warrant some change.quote:In his victory speech, Mr Blatter said: "I am the president now, the president of everybody." Sounds like a cartoon villain. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32937639
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May 29, 2015 22:17
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May 29, 2015 22:25
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Eezee posted:As expected, Sepp got elected again. I guess decades long corruption under his watch isn't enough to warrant some change. It feels like they just want to double down and pretend like all is well or else look guilty. I find it really difficult not to think the DOJ timed this perfectly only to shatter them. Hell the only other option was a prince (intentionally not capitalized). Though you do have to wonder if the member of a monarchy in the year 2015 was actually the vastly better choice.
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May 29, 2015 22:28
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He really doesn't have any idea how completely and totally hosed he is, does he?
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May 29, 2015 22:30
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I bet Loretta Lynch is really excited to be the first person to put a President of Everybody on ice.
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May 29, 2015 22:30
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So, what happens if (when?) Blatter gets arrested? Does one of the VP's take over? Given the way things are going, what if they've all been arrested as well?
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May 29, 2015 22:38
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:He really doesn't have any idea how completely and totally hosed he is, does he? Look how arrogant John 'I bet ya 3 to 1 I beat this' Gotti was before he was put away for life. hobotrashcanfires posted:It feels like they just want to double down and pretend like all is well or else look guilty. I find it really difficult not to think the DOJ timed this perfectly only to shatter them. Realistically the timing probably has more to do with Lynch being confirmed as the new AG since IIRC she was the former head of the office running this case. A Winner is Jew fucked around with this message at 22:44 on May 29, 2015 |
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May 29, 2015 22:39
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Blinks77 posted:So, what happens if (when?) Blatter gets arrested? Given the way things are going, he could well stay in charge  There's probably something in FIFA's bylaws about it. Probably a temporary appointment and then a new election.
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May 29, 2015 22:46
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A Winner is Jew posted:Look how arrogant John 'I bet ya 3 to 1 I beat this' Gotti was before he was put away for life. You remember correctly. quote:In was in her role as district attorney that her involvement in the Fifa investigation began. Over the course of five years in Brooklyn - during which she weathered criticism for striking a deal with HSBC that spared the bank from criminal charges over money laundering - a case against the football officials was pieced together.
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May 29, 2015 22:48
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A Winner is Jew posted:Realistically the timing probably has more to do with Lynch being confirmed as the new AG since IIRC she was the former head of the office running this case. Fair point, it may just be beautifully fortuitous timing. I probably got too excited about the DOJ doing anything worthwhile against a major organization.
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May 29, 2015 23:06
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Blinks77 posted:So, what happens if (when?) Blatter gets arrested? Given the scope of both the corruption and the investigation (and how RICO works), there may not BE non-arrested VPs left to take over by the time the DoJ is done.
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May 30, 2015 00:21
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At this point if you are a FIFA official under indictment you should spill everything ASAP, these deals are in extremely limited quantity. HSBC already got the sweet deal for tipping off the DOJ and providing records. That's enough to indict these people and definitely have them see jail time. Historically, anyone who rolls at this point is looking at a 15 year sentence instead of 30 sorta thing.
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May 30, 2015 00:32
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Can they really secure a 30 year jail term in the states for a Football association president/representative from another nation? Seems unlikely.
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May 30, 2015 00:50
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Despatcher posted:Can they really secure a 30 year jail term in the states for a Football association president/representative from another nation? Seems unlikely. Unreasonably long sentences stemming from overreaching criminal statutes? That's practically the national anthem.
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May 30, 2015 00:52
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Despatcher posted:Can they really secure a 30 year jail term in the states for a Football association president/representative from another nation? Seems unlikely. They loving broke Mafia dons with RICO. Blatter's no Gambino.
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May 30, 2015 00:53
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SlipUp posted:At this point if you are a FIFA official under indictment you should spill everything ASAP, these deals are in extremely limited quantity. HSBC already got the sweet deal for tipping off the DOJ and providing records. That's enough to indict these people and definitely have them see jail time. Historically, anyone who rolls at this point is looking at a 15 year sentence instead of 30 sorta thing. Pretty much. When DoJ declared RICO on your rear end the point is to squeal fastest and loudest, that way you might actually see the light of day again. If you're not fast enough the DoJ will pat you on the head and lock you away just as long because you didn't bring anything new to the table. I'm pretty sure FIFA's remaining execs are in denial. They've lived completely untouchable in a bubble for so long they literally cannot comprehend a force big and strong enough to take them down legally. Sure, a few might fall but that's the price of doing business, but nothing will touch Blatter or the majority of them besides maybe a slap on the wrist. They don't understand that the DoJ declaring RICO is a bit like the Romans declaring that the Carthaginians could use a bit more sodium in their diet.
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May 30, 2015 00:53
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This situation is where the "prisoner's dilemma" comes from, and it's not a coincidence that if you're only playing it once the right move is always mash betray as fast as possible.
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May 30, 2015 00:55
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Basically RICO is the nuclear option if the nuclear option was the planet-cracking superbomb from Beneath the Planet of the Apes. The heavens declare the glory of the Bomb, and the firmament showeth His handiwork. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWPvKxSA7nw Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 01:00 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 00:57
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Every banker on Wall Street is watching this and laughing.
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May 30, 2015 01:05
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Am I reading that wiki article about the RICO statute right? If these people want bail they're going to have to cough up triple the amount they're accused or enriching themselves with? As in collectively they'd have to cough up 480 million dollars?
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May 30, 2015 01:10
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VideoTapir posted:Every banker on Wall Street is watching this and laughing. If they are, they're whistling past the graveyard. There but for the grace of Capital go they.
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May 30, 2015 01:12
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Crossposting from the sports subforum:Squinky v2.0 posted:New NYTimes article offers a few details I hadn't heard
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May 30, 2015 01:18
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Despatcher posted:Can they really secure a 30 year jail term in the states for a Football association president/representative from another nation? Seems unlikely. These guys they already have. There's no bail going to be set (Typical in RICO cases) because of extreme flight risk. If someone else took a bribe and were fortunate enough not to get picked up in the initial raid, they could conceivably flee to a country that doesn't have extradition, and hopefully the diplomatic arm of their government will try negotiating something. Of course the Swiss and the Brits smell blood in the water and have their own charges they want to bring now, so you can assume Interpol is in on this now so the EU is a no go, and everywhere there is extradition with the USA or the EU. Oh and there has been zero indication any of these guy's home country is willing to go to bat for them, a lot of these guys might even end up arrested if they go home. So basically flee to Qatar and hope they set you up with a sweet penthouse instead of making you a slave laborer to die an indignant death on the construction site of the stadium you commissioned through fraud for a quick buck.
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May 30, 2015 01:19
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Despatcher posted:Can they really secure a 30 year jail term in the states for a Football association president/representative from another nation? Seems unlikely. Not only will they secure it, but it's very likely that anyone brought in after this initial round of indictments is looking at a minimum of 30 years even if they presented air tight video evidence of Blatter killing an entire village. All the US goons talking about how insanely powerful the RICO act and that anyone that's corrupt in FIFA's leadership going to get the scales of justice shoved up their rear end is isn't doing it from an "America! gently caress Yeah!" standpoint, we're doing it because the RICO act is no poo poo just as ruthless and overreaching as the Patriot act and Alien and Sedition acts only without anyone seriously having bemoaned it ever and a very defined legal interpretation of the act so that prosecutors invoking RICO know exactly what they need to present to a judge to make those charges stick giving the DOJ carte blanche to literally go Kaiser Sozey on your rear end. VideoTapir posted:Every banker on Wall Street is watching this and laughing. Sadly bankers and lawyers write the laws which is why there isn't a version of RICO for them. A Winner is Jew fucked around with this message at 01:22 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 01:19
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Cythereal posted:Crossposting from the sports subforum: Russian organized crime? This poo poo is about to get crazy.
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May 30, 2015 01:20
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Gorau posted:Am I reading that wiki article about the RICO statute right? If these people want bail they're going to have to cough up triple the amount they're accused or enriching themselves with? As in collectively they'd have to cough up 480 million dollars? Yes, but that's only if they don't consider you a flight risk. There's no bail at all in that case. These guys will almost definitely be considered a flight risk.
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May 30, 2015 01:29
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A Winner is Jew posted:
Being threatened with RICO was actually one of the reasons Drexel Burnham Lambert went under so it wouldnt be wholly unprecedented but yes not in today's day and age. The SituAsian fucked around with this message at 01:51 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 01:48
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Despatcher posted:Can they really secure a 30 year jail term in the states for a Football association president/representative from another nation? Seems unlikely. As I understand it: They consider him to have committed a crime in the United States, by virtue of organising fraud and bribery there, and that crime carries certain punishments if he is brought to justice. Actually arresting him depends on the cooperation of local police, since they can't invade Switzerland to grab him themselves, but the Swiss police are cooperating since they think he's guilty as sin too. It's definitely a powerful law and an example of America's global reach, but it makes sense if you consider him as the head of an organised crime operation that has worked extensively in the US. It wouldn't be crazy if a Mexican cartel honcho was brought to trial in the United States with the cooperation of the Mexican police, if the US had more appropriate laws or a more trustworthy judiciary or some such. e: all this assumes they'll actually indict him though, which I'll believe when I see it even though I know it's possible now Peel fucked around with this message at 01:59 on May 30, 2015 |
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May 30, 2015 01:50
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SWISS POLICE! GRUEZI!!
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May 30, 2015 01:56
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Coldbird posted:The only surprise is how sloppy the people they're catching have reportedly been. The guy who made millions and just sat in a 24k/co condo in New York, never even bothering to file fake tax returns? The FIFA exec whose US immigration form listed him as a decorative rock salesman with severe dementia? It sounds like they just didn't bother with hiding poo poo because they thought FIFA's multinational status meant they were untouchable, and up until now they sort of were. If the rest follows that line, the thing could collapse quickly as soon as someone serious really investigates it. Yeah it's kind of funny how the origin of the whole investigation is that the flashy ultrarich guy didn't even bother to file income taxes for years. That's hilarious
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May 30, 2015 05:03
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Cythereal posted:Crossposting from the sports subforum: Oh great now it involves the Russian mob.
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May 30, 2015 05:40
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Cythereal posted:Crossposting from the sports subforum: This is why you always pay your goddamned taxes, people.
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May 30, 2015 05:44
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Lid posted:Oh great now it involves the Russian mob. Seal Team Six extract Putin from the Kremlin to face justice... for international sporting events related bribery.
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May 30, 2015 06:55
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Lid posted:Oh great now it involves the Russian mob. Because of course it does. Also no wonder Putin is throwing a fit, this is delicious 
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May 30, 2015 08:24
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!