Crusader Kings II: I desperately want to be cucked by Satan

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crusader Kings II: I desperately want to be cucked by Satan

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

Nakar posted:

There was Sengoku for Japan, but it's like CK1.5 at this point and not very good by comparison. Nothing for anything else east of India.

There's always mods though!

# ? May 30, 2015 16:30

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 15:29

Shnooks: Mar 24, 2007; I'M BEING BORN D:

I tried the Sengoku mod once and it wasn't very good. I wasn't sure where else to ask.

# ? May 30, 2015 16:32

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

Shnooks posted:

I tried the Sengoku mod once and it wasn't very good. I wasn't sure where else to ask.

There's also the Nova Monumenta... one, but it's apparently fallen to the wayside.

# ? May 30, 2015 16:35

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

Ahahaha, the power of the Jain Roman Emperor is insane. Of course by the time you are Roman Emperor, you've already pretty much got poo poo down, with the Jain bonuses just being the cherry on top but holy smokes this was worth the religious revolts.

Btw, this game desperately needs events that raise MA that aren't war related or a single lovely ambition; also why do I not get all those sweet rear end holy orders when I mend the Schism? Ughhh, I want a way to take loving king level titles sweet chroiiistt.

# ? May 30, 2015 19:35

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Ahahaha, the power of the Jain Roman Emperor is insane. Of course by the time you are Roman Emperor, you've already pretty much got poo poo down, with the Jain bonuses just being the cherry on top but holy smokes this was worth the religious revolts.

Btw, this game desperately needs events that raise MA that aren't war related or a single lovely ambition; also why do I not get all those sweet rear end holy orders when I mend the Schism? Ughhh, I want a way to take loving king level titles sweet chroiiistt.

Does Jain get holy orders at all?

# ? May 30, 2015 19:57

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

Moridin920 posted:

Does Jain get holy orders at all?

All the Indian religions get 1 each, I recall.

# ? May 30, 2015 20:20

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Ahahaha, the power of the Jain Roman Emperor is insane. Of course by the time you are Roman Emperor, you've already pretty much got poo poo down, with the Jain bonuses just being the cherry on top but holy smokes this was worth the religious revolts.

Btw, this game desperately needs events that raise MA that aren't war related or a single lovely ambition; also why do I not get all those sweet rear end holy orders when I mend the Schism? Ughhh, I want a way to take loving king level titles sweet chroiiistt.

The mongol invasion CB still works with Indian religions fyi.

# ? May 30, 2015 21:07

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

Moridin920 posted:

Does Jain get holy orders at all?

Yea, 1, same as the rest of the Indians and no hoops to jump through like with some of the other ones.

Volkerball posted:

The mongol invasion CB still works with Indian religions fyi.

I haven't spread ~~Greekness~~ Civilization throughout the world just to turn foreign at this juncture.

Btw, if you wait for crusades to unlock and a few catholic holy orders, do you then get them for orthodox? And do you get them anyway if you mend it right away?

# ? May 30, 2015 22:26

Edison was a dick: Apr 3, 2010; direct current only

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Btw, if you wait for crusades to unlock and a few catholic holy orders, do you then get them for orthodox?

Yep.

quote:

And do you get them anyway if you mend it right away?

You don't get them unless they exist at the time of mending.
I also think they can't form if Catholicism is a heresy of Orthodox. I'm curious myself now, so I'm going to look up the events.

EDIT:
They're all guarded with this.

code:

OR = {
        religion = catholic
        religion = cathar
        religion = fraticelli
        religion = waldensian
        religion = lollard
}
is_heretic = no

It hard-codes the list of religions in the branch, so if the schism is mended you have to be on one from the Catholic branch to have any of their holy orders.

So if you want to maximise the holy orders, you need to either make something from the Catholic branch dominant after reforming, or wait for them to form before mending.
There's similar rules for the Orthodox holy order, but it's easier to trigger.

So unless you can contrive for a significant number of important Christian places to be held by infidels and trigger them early, it's probably best to convert Antioch and Jerusalem to the Orthodox branch and mend the schism, then convert to something from the Catholic branch so that the rest can form based on time or places being owned by infidels.

Edison was a dick fucked around with this message at 22:56 on May 30, 2015

# ? May 30, 2015 22:34

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

Edison was a dick posted:

Yep.

You don't get them unless they exist at the time of mending.
I also think they can't form if Catholicism is a heresy of Orthodox. I'm curious myself now, so I'm going to look up the events.

EDIT:
They're all guarded with this.
code:
OR = {
        religion = catholic
        religion = cathar
        religion = fraticelli
        religion = waldensian
        religion = lollard
}
is_heretic = no
It hard-codes the list of religions in the branch, so if the schism is mended you have to be on one from the Catholic branch to have any of their holy orders.

So if you want to maximise the holy orders, you need to either make something from the Catholic branch dominant after reforming, or wait for them to form before mending.
There's similar rules for the Orthodox holy order, but it's easier to trigger.

So unless you can contrive for a significant number of important Christian places to be held by infidels and trigger them early, it's probably best to convert Antioch and Jerusalem to the Orthodox branch and mend the schism, then convert to something from the Catholic branch so that the rest can form based on time or places being owned by infidels.

Charlemagne went Lollard; so did all his successor kingdoms. It won't be a problem for me. Thanks for checking that up for me.

Btw, I hate it when Lollard or Waldensian go rampant; Fraticelli at least can get their own pope and Cathar has Absolote Cognatic, which is baller, but those two are just boring boring.
Also Every muslim holy order is gonna spawn at once once the year hits 900 as I control Marrkesh, Mecca, Baghdad and Jerusalem. Islam is hosed.

# ? May 30, 2015 23:15

Edison was a dick: Apr 3, 2010; direct current only

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Charlemagne went Lollard; so did all his successor kingdoms. It won't be a problem for me. Thanks for checking that up for me.

So you won't have to worry about western europe having holy orders making your invasion difficult, but you won't get any of the Catholic holy orders unless you convert to a heresy from the Catholic branch and make it dominant.

# ? May 30, 2015 23:24

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Charlemagne went Lollard; so did all his successor kingdoms. It won't be a problem for me. Thanks for checking that up for me.

Btw, I hate it when Lollard or Waldensian go rampant; Fraticelli at least can get their own pope and Cathar has Absolote Cognatic, which is baller, but those two are just boring boring.
Also Every muslim holy order is gonna spawn at once once the year hits 900 as I control Marrkesh, Mecca, Baghdad and Jerusalem. Islam is hosed.

Most heresies are pretty dull. They really just exist as a way to splinter religions with low MA. The exception are Cathars which unlocks women for every role which gives you access to a huge talent pool that nobody else will be using, and Messalian which is like a weird mix of Cathar and Zoroastrian despite being Christian based. All the others are either just identical to their parent religion (with maybe one minor difference, like Yazidi gaining excommunication), or basically do nothing at all (like Lollard or Waldensian where there's literally nothing associated with them at all).

It would be nice to see heresies get expanded a little, but I think I'd rather see more done with the parent religions first - there's really no particular difference in playing Orthodox, Miaphysite, or Nestorian Christians, or playing as basically any Pagan except Germanic.

# ? May 30, 2015 23:30

GSD: May 10, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

You can get the Catholic orders to turn Orthodox, but you need to mend the schism, and then have Catholicism become the dominant form (this will turn the Orthodox order Catholic as well) and then make Orthodox dominant again.

Edit: or at least this is how it used to work.

# ? May 30, 2015 23:41

Deific Presence: May 7, 2007

I'm in the middle of my best Norse Ironman game yet. Started as Svitjod, Sigurd died in battle pretty early but managed to subjugate Denmark and most of Sweden and didn't have any extra sons to screw up Ragnar's inheritance. Widukind killed Karl in battle and Saxony regained independence, giving me a nice holy war buffer and fracturing Western Europe. Managed to reform at 100 MA by the time Ragnar was 40. He lived to be 80 and I even managed to pump out 3 Strong sons and about 5 Strong daughters. Haven't had any major plots or upstart vassals in a long time, every Jarl is Content and no vassal holds more than one County. What should I do next? When should I switch to Feudalism? Should I save up a few thousand gold first so I can immediately start building holdings? What is there to do other than raid and put down Finnish peasant uprisings? Saxony is having a rough time with holy wars from the various constantly-shifting Karling kingdoms, so they'll be at my door in another generation or so, but in the mean time I need to figure out what to do and I'd really like to get out of Gavelkind.

# ? May 30, 2015 23:50

SeductiveReasoning: Nov 2, 2005; 382 BC - 301 BC

Shadeoses posted:

After the end, there are nothing but dicks.

More like Lake Flacid.

# ? May 31, 2015 08:42

kingturnip: Apr 18, 2008

I started a Shattered World game as a Nestorian Mongol (Ruler Designed) on the north edge of the Black Sea with the aim of becoming a Merchant Republic.
Forming a duchy is easy enough, as is getting enough troops to go raiding those juicy Orthodox counties, but man is it boring otherwise.
I even started Holy Warring multiple Tengri rulers at the same time just for something to do. Now I'm just biding my time, waiting for some more Market Villages before I go all Republic.

# ? May 31, 2015 12:23

Bold Robot: Jan 6, 2009; Be brave.

Are there any decent ways to get a child killed these days? Just started up a Byzantine game and it's the first time I've had to deal with primo succession in forever. I've got two born in the purple sons and the younger one is way better.

# ? May 31, 2015 22:55

Walton Simons: May 16, 2010; ELECTRONIC OLD MEN RUNNING THE WORLD

Welp, my Kingdom of Eire lasted 90 years before my cousin, the King of Scotland declared war on me over the Kingdom and called the King of England in on his side. Even with heavy use of mercenaries, I couldn't turn back their 30K deathstack.

loving ouch. I should probably have answered the call to war a bit more often I guess?

e: So where do I go from here? Try to gobble up a few more counties until I can get independence from Scotland? They're very strong at the moment and are murdering England in an excommunication war.

Walton Simons fucked around with this message at 23:24 on May 31, 2015

# ? May 31, 2015 23:00

Lord Cyrahzax: Oct 11, 2012

Bold Robot posted:

Are there any decent ways to get a child killed these days? Just started up a Byzantine game and it's the first time I've had to deal with primo succession in forever. I've got two born in the purple sons and the younger one is way better.

You have a pet Patriarch. Excommunicate and imprison, then turn him into a monk or mutilate him.

# ? May 31, 2015 23:41

catlord: Mar 22, 2009; What's on your mind, Axa?

After having reclaimed England from, um, the Anglo-Saxons, I've turned my eye to Brittany and bringing my Celtic kin into my protection. I've gotten two of the counties, so now I've got a claim on a third. I want this to be a quick war, so I check his alliances and wouldn't you know it, he's allied to Ulaidh. I could probably take them both on, but that'd be a while and it'd be pain, but the Breton count is slow and I can get like, 368 plot power on him, so I figure I'll just murder him, and then beat up his son.

I am trying to murder the luckiest man in the world. Seven times now I've gotten an assassination event and seven times he's not only survived, but also found me out. He hates my guts with a passion now, -1400 of "tried to murder me" alone, and he just. Won't. Die.

# ? May 31, 2015 23:59

Deceitful Penguin: Feb 16, 2011

Edison was a dick posted:

So you won't have to worry about western europe having holy orders making your invasion difficult, but you won't get any of the Catholic holy orders unless you convert to a heresy from the Catholic branch and make it dominant.

Bleeeehh, Just about the only buggers left are heathens; I'm honestly just thinking of waiting out the clock for the cheevos and see what else I can get.

The Cheshire Cat posted:

Most heresies are pretty dull. They really just exist as a way to splinter religions with low MA. The exception are Cathars which unlocks women for every role which gives you access to a huge talent pool that nobody else will be using, and Messalian which is like a weird mix of Cathar and Zoroastrian despite being Christian based. All the others are either just identical to their parent religion (with maybe one minor difference, like Yazidi gaining excommunication), or basically do nothing at all (like Lollard or Waldensian where there's literally nothing associated with them at all).

It would be nice to see heresies get expanded a little, but I think I'd rather see more done with the parent religions first - there's really no particular difference in playing Orthodox, Miaphysite, or Nestorian Christians, or playing as basically any Pagan except Germanic.

The Yazidi have excommuncation, the Bogomilists female temple holders (but none of the real good poo poo the other female-focused ones get) and yea, that's about it.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 00:14

Facebook Aunt: Oct 4, 2008; wiggle wiggle

Deceitful Penguin posted:

The Yazidi have excommuncation, the Bogomilists female temple holders (but none of the real good poo poo the other female-focused ones get) and yea, that's about it.

Do any of the non-germanic pagans get any events or festivals or anything at all interesting? Had to have my Magyar king go take a germanic county so I could change religion, because tengri is boring as hell.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 00:41

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Angela Christine posted:

Do any of the non-germanic pagans get any events or festivals or anything at all interesting? Had to have my Magyar king go take a germanic county so I could change religion, because tengri is boring as hell.

The Zunists get some cool sun festival events (I think you can get traits like genius or strong from them, too), and you can have people 'judged by zun' which either kills them, converts them, releases them, or gives them lunatic (iirc ~10% chance each every day). You also don't have elective gavelkind, and ultimogeniture is available from the beginning and they start as feudal.

Good luck not getting wrecked by the Muslims or the Buddhists, though.

e:

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jun 1, 2015

# ? Jun 1, 2015 02:15

Contrecoup: Mar 30, 2015

Walton Simons posted:

Welp, my Kingdom of Eire lasted 90 years before my cousin, the King of Scotland declared war on me over the Kingdom and called the King of England in on his side. Even with heavy use of mercenaries, I couldn't turn back their 30K deathstack.

loving ouch. I should probably have answered the call to war a bit more often I guess?

e: So where do I go from here? Try to gobble up a few more counties until I can get independence from Scotland? They're very strong at the moment and are murdering England in an excommunication war.

Being a vassal means (usually) you can expand within the realm without your overlord stepping in personally. You can use this and possibly faction fuckery to break out or even seize power yourself.

As a vassal, you often have most of the options available to you as a free power and an entire extra political system layered on top. It's good poo poo.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 02:39

Freakus: Oct 21, 2000

I haven't played since before Charlemagne was released. Are retinues still worthwhile?

# ? Jun 1, 2015 03:11

mythomanic: Aug 19, 2009

Freakus posted:

I haven't played since before Charlemagne was released. Are retinues still worthwhile?

Only if you have a really substantial tax base. They aren't the full replacement for levies they once were.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 03:56

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

mythomanic posted:

Only if you have a really substantial tax base. They aren't the full replacement for levies they once were.

They can still be useful in small numbers, as their quality is generally much better than anything anyone can field.

They are actually in a really good place right now.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 04:13

mornhaven: Sep 10, 2011

Bold Robot posted:

Are there any decent ways to get a child killed these days? Just started up a Byzantine game and it's the first time I've had to deal with primo succession in forever. I've got two born in the purple sons and the younger one is way better.

If you have Way of Life, you can use the intrigue focus to spy on him for kidnap/murder events.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 06:45

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

Angela Christine posted:

Do any of the non-germanic pagans get any events or festivals or anything at all interesting? Had to have my Magyar king go take a germanic county so I could change religion, because tengri is boring as hell.

As mentioned Zunists have some extra stuff, but otherwise the only unique festivals other pagans get are just their own version of the great blot except without the human sacrifice. The main difference between the pagan religions are the passive bonuses they get, which generally aren't that interesting except for 80% defense boost on home territory for defensive pagans.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 07:12

paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

Hey I know some guys from the After the End team post here so I just want to say, good job on the mod and thanks for getting it running on Macs again. I'm running a game as the Republic of Los Angeles and its more satisfying than any game of CK2 I've played yet. Kick the king of Socal in the teeth, form a kingdom, punch the poo poo out of the Valley. It's good to be the Director.

paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Jun 1, 2015

# ? Jun 1, 2015 10:43

Preechr: May 19, 2009; Proud member of the Pony-Brony Alliance for Obama as President

Are you supposed to lose tech bonuses to retinues when you merge them?

# ? Jun 1, 2015 11:23

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

The Golden Horde declared war on me, but I managed to get thar the fastest with mostest and crushed the forward party of 12,000 and then the main force of 35,762 and then the feeling remnants who linked up with the regard of 4,000. After a final fourth battle to mop up the survivors, 51,762 Mongols were dead along with at least 42,000 Romans of the 75,000 who participated in the campaign.

I then conquered Mosul from the decaying Uqaylids and was rewarded for these two feats of arms with a massive result. Much of it going back to the first ruler, as I had not played a game since before Charglemagne and handed out quite a few duchies before I figured out Viceroyalties. I cleaned that up a bit in the first rebellion and fixed most of the rest in this one.

The Empire reunited and at peace at last.

The current dilemma, my first son by my first wife is awesome. My third son by my second wife is born in the purple and has the potential to be even more awesome. I'm in my early fifties. Should I designate George my heir, or roll the dice with Leonidas?

# ? Jun 1, 2015 12:13

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

I'd go with Leonidas. Keep George as a back-up plan.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 12:21

Knuc U Kinte: Aug 17, 2004

Charlz Guybon posted:

The current dilemma, my first son by my first wife is awesome. My third son by my second wife is born in the purple and has the potential to be even more awesome. I'm in my early fifties. Should I designate George my heir, or roll the dice with Leonidas?

I'd go with the adult man that has mega diplomacy rather than risk a regency. The gamble isn't worth it. What are you gonna get with some extra stat points that is worth potential civil war.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 12:21

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

Knuc U Kinte posted:

I'd go with the adult man that has mega diplomacy rather than risk a regency. The gamble isn't worth it. What are you gonna get with some extra stat points that is worth potential civil war.

Born in the purple is worth +10 though.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 12:23

Dareon: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Moridin920 posted:

The Zunists get some cool sun festival events (I think you can get traits like genius or strong from them, too), and you can have people 'judged by zun' which either kills them, converts them, releases them, or gives them lunatic (iirc ~10% chance each every day). You also don't have elective gavelkind, and ultimogeniture is available from the beginning and they start as feudal.

Good luck not getting wrecked by the Muslims or the Buddhists, though.

e:

I usually keep an eye on the Zunbils even if I'm playing over in Ireland or something, it's like a soap opera. At one point they lost to a Jain uprising. You know a start is a hard row to hoe when the pacifist religion can kick your rear end.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 12:28

Knuc U Kinte: Aug 17, 2004

Charlz Guybon posted:

Born in the purple is worth +10 though.

So? That's not going to stop you being dicked over in a regency.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 12:30

Saith: Oct 10, 2010; Asahina...
Regular Penguins look just the same!

Charlz Guybon posted:

The Golden Horde declared war on me, but I managed to get thar the fastest with mostest and crushed the forward party of 12,000 and then the main force of 35,762 and then the feeling remnants who linked up with the regard of 4,000. After a final fourth battle to mop up the survivors, 51,762 Mongols were dead along with at least 42,000 Romans of the 75,000 who participated in the campaign.

I then conquered Mosul from the decaying Uqaylids and was rewarded for these two feats of arms with a massive result. Much of it going back to the first ruler, as I had not played a game since before Charglemagne and handed out quite a few duchies before I figured out Viceroyalties. I cleaned that up a bit in the first rebellion and fixed most of the rest in this one.

The Empire reunited and at peace at last.

The current dilemma, my first son by my first wife is awesome. My third son by my second wife is born in the purple and has the potential to be even more awesome. I'm in my early fifties. Should I designate George my heir, or roll the dice with Leonidas?

Stick with George, but if you're still alive when Leonidas comes of age you can designate him as your heir. Alternatively, if you wanna be a dick to your adequate, but still sorta disappointing son, you can make him your designated regent and watch everything crumble around you.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 12:40

cock hero flux: Apr 17, 2011

Charlz Guybon posted:

The current dilemma, my first son by my first wife is awesome. My third son by my second wife is born in the purple and has the potential to be even more awesome. I'm in my early fifties. Should I designate George my heir, or roll the dice with Leonidas?

Designate him your heir, he's got decent enough stats and it really, really isn't worth dealing with a regency. But if you're still alive when Leonidas comes of age, and he turns out to be amazing, you can always get rid of George. I don't remember if you can just revoke Designated Heir(or despot or whatever the byzantine one is called) but if you can't you can always just have him executed.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 12:53

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 15:29

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

Second son ended up with a Diplomacy of only 23 (an underhanded rouge), though he was a little better in martial and some of the other stats than his brother. A Dip of 23 and Born in the Purple was enough to edge out his brother. He stays as heir.

^^^I'm not going to kill the older brother, don't be daft.

# ? Jun 1, 2015 15:22

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