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ToxicSlurpee posted:What I keep seeing from marketing in general is not just a matter of not knowing what millenials want but rather failing to understand that millenials are loving broke. It doesn't matter what anybody does at this point. Millenials just flat out have less spending power. "We did X and millenials are not buying from us so obviously X does not appeal to them" means gently caress all if they can't afford anything. How many people in their mid to late 20's have 6 digits of student loans and are making minimum wage or slightly above? Good luck convincing that demographic to spend money on anything, ever. In my mind, if a company understands this basic tenant of advertising to millennials, they already have a gigantic leg up over every other company in the market. Sure, Taco Bell is planning on rolling out their Chipotle-style taco restaurant, but at the end of the day the core concept of their ads is "you're drunk, you're broke, and we're open." I've spent most of my life in a city full of inexpensive, nimble restaurants that provide more than enough late-night dining options that hit all the twentysomething buzzwords, and yet the taco bell down the block from my house always has a line six cars deep after midnight. If I saw an ad for socks that just said "These socks are worth $10," my first impulse would most likely be "wait, they aren't trying to bullshit me? Cool, I'll have to remember this brand next time I need to buy socks," even if it was just on the principle that I didn't feel misrepresented by their ad. I was also a jaded middle schooler that watched a lot of TV in the early aughts so I fit square into that "I don't like being pandered to by very very obvious marketing tricks" demographic of millennials. El Estrago Bonito posted:I think the real issue is that (at least in my area) millenials abhor big companies and see them as a necessary evil when it comes to food. They don't want to eat campbells/pizza hut/McDonalds they do it because you can't eat at the local Banh-Mi place every single day. And they don't like being called out as a separate entity and marketed towards. Or lack thereof, which is their biggest strength in my opinion. That might just be the way they carry themselves in Portland, though. This city is a weird microcosm of competent advertising considering that we have about 20 years worth of Wieden+Kennedy runoff ruling our regional ad market around here.
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Jun 2, 2015 12:19
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Radio Help posted:In my mind, if a company understands this basic tenant of advertising to millennials, they already have a gigantic leg up over every other company in the market. Sure, Taco Bell is planning on rolling out their Chipotle-style taco restaurant, but at the end of the day the core concept of their ads is "you're drunk, you're broke, and we're open." I've spent most of my life in a city full of inexpensive, nimble restaurants that provide more than enough late-night dining options that hit all the twentysomething buzzwords, and yet the taco bell down the block from my house always has a line six cars deep after midnight. It's Australian, but several years ago Rivers (a sort of low-midrange country-themed clothing and footwear store) ran a whole bunch of ads that were basically "here's some socks or Crocs or boots or whatever. It's cheap. Buy it." or just talk some bullshit about the product. Here's a sample.
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Jun 2, 2015 14:51
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Since I work in advertising and am a millennial I feel like I should mention the vast majority of higher UPS especially in the companies who actually have to sign off on advertising are not millennials. Their is currently a shift on going where people who just shout the millennial buzzword are slowly being phased out in favor of people who can understand their target demo isn't every adult between a college student and a 35 year old (Christ I hate that age bracket) but rather a subset just like every other target they've ever had.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:15
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Part of the problem is that advertising can't be cool, almost by definition. I'm sure you've all heard of the concept of selling out. Advertising is an industry whose entire foundation consists of selling out. There is nothing genuine about it at all. This is coming from someone who (unfortunately) works in advertising, by the way. When I start writing copy for an ad, the first thing I ask myself is "how do I make this product sound really good?", rather than the far more important question, "is this product actually any good?" Advertising is a classic example of a bullshit job. E: That's why all the best/tolerable ads that are being cited here are the ones that just drop the bullshit pretenses and say "Yeah we're selling you poo poo, and we've got good news: it's cheap and gets the job done" or other things to that effect. Your Sledgehammer has a new favorite as of 20:03 on Jun 2, 2015 |
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Jun 2, 2015 20:01
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Your Sledgehammer posted:Part of the problem is that advertising can't be cool, almost by definition. I'm sure you've all heard of the concept of selling out. Advertising is an industry whose entire foundation consists of selling out. There is nothing genuine about it at all. That's a really cool link but god drat reading the text on that yellow page is making my eyes go out. I'm going to have to just copy this text into notepad or something, what the gently caress.
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Jun 2, 2015 20:19
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Your Sledgehammer posted:Advertising is a classic example of a bullshit job. ow my fuckin retinas
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Jun 2, 2015 20:56
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Webpage design is evidently not a bullshit job. Also, he says telemarketers are highly paid. Tunicate has a new favorite as of 21:09 on Jun 2, 2015 |
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Jun 2, 2015 21:07
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Good advertising entails not making the viewer's eyes bleed. So whoever designed that web page would suck at it.
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Jun 2, 2015 21:07
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The internet has changed traditional marketing in one big way, because the manufacturer/retailer marketing a product can no longer rely on controlling the majority of the messaging about their product or brand. If I'm buying a gas lawn mower, I'm going to start by searching online. I'm going to see Amazon reviews, find a half dozen different online retailers, and find a blog or two reviewing lawn mowers in detail with teardown photos. I may find a click-baity article discussing what to look for in lawn mowers, and maybe an online magazine or newspaper article telling me to compare the cost of buying a mower vs. hiring a landscaper. I'll see a forum of lawn mower enthusiasts  about their favorite mowers and how to buy one.Or I might just go to the store and buy a middle-priced model from a brand I recognize. 30 years ago I probably saw an ad in print/radio/tv, went to my local hardware store and started browsing. I recognize some mower brands from their TV ads, I'm reading the boxes, looking over the display models and make my selection based on what I think I need and what I can afford. In this case, the manufacturer or retailer has controlled the communication and messaging about the product the entire time. That's how it is for a lot of durable goods and big ticket items now.
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Jun 2, 2015 21:55
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The basic truth of public relations is that the best way to create an image is to live up to it.
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Jun 2, 2015 22:06
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canyoneer posted:The internet has changed traditional marketing in one big way, because the manufacturer/retailer marketing a product can no longer rely on controlling the majority of the messaging about their product or brand. Much truth in this. I am as gently caress when shopping now and most of the people I know are the same.
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Jun 2, 2015 22:22
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Karma Monkey posted:Much truth in this. I am I assume folks like us are in the minority when you factor in the non-internet-obsessed masses. But yeah whenever I need to buy, say, a thermos, I'll google "best thermos" or "top 10 thermoses" or whatever and find some user feedback before I make my decision.
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Jun 2, 2015 23:05
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Your Sledgehammer posted:Part of the problem is that advertising can't be cool, almost by definition. I'm sure you've all heard of the concept of selling out. Advertising is an industry whose entire foundation consists of selling out. There is nothing genuine about it at all. I think a lot of it also has to do with how the internet changed how information moves. In the past you didn't have much choice but to vomit piles of cash into an advertising firm if you wanted people to know your product even existed. You could also wipe away a certain amount of shittiness in the product by just advertising it hard enough. Now however if the product is garbage people loving know. The movie industry has been facing this; doesn't matter how many good reviews it gets or how good you make the movie look. If it's absolute poo poo everybody that went to see it on day 1 is going to post it on Facebook and now none of their friends are going to see it. In the past you could make bank on a movie if you kept production costs low enough and spammed ads hard enough. That's absolutely impossible now. Of course in the case of products the ease of information flowing makes it easier for people to get awareness of a competing product. If somebody makes something better in literally every way word is going to get around very quickly. Same with movies though there is also the simple "Is X product good?" Google search. OFf course advertising also costs money which then gets handed off to people that buy the product. Millenials are often broke as gently caress and more concerned with finding the cheapest solution that works. Product A that has $1 billion spent on advertising is going to cost more than Product B that doesn't. Guess which one is probably cheaper? Granted I'm really shocked that more advertising companies haven't been just doing the "hey this product exists, here is how much it costs, here is what it does" type of advertising. The sensationalist stuff, the "everything is now premium luxury top grade A best poo poo ever!!!!!!!" crap, and the preying on insecurities ultimately went as far as it could. Of course thanks to internet searches I imagine the smart marketing departments are going to shift away from traditional advertising and toward making sure the information is out there in internet land to be had.
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Jun 2, 2015 23:39
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Granted I'm really shocked that more advertising companies haven't been just doing the "hey this product exists, here is how much it costs, here is what it does" type of advertising. The sensationalist stuff, the "everything is now premium luxury top grade A best poo poo ever!!!!!!!" crap, and the preying on insecurities ultimately went as far as it could. Of course thanks to internet searches I imagine the smart marketing departments are going to shift away from traditional advertising and toward making sure the information is out there in internet land to be had. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f83AYIJiQUw
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Jun 2, 2015 23:43
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I work at an art museum that specializes in the very ancient through 1850 or so. Because most of our long-standing members and general clientele have been dying off lately, we have also been faced with the problem of courting millenials. Someone was paid a lot of money to come up with the idea of a selfie contest, where people take their pictures in front of a work of art and tag the museum when they post it. Tons of people did, because it's kind of a fun idea. No one under the age of 60 is actually signing up for membership, of course, but we have duckfaces in front of Roman sculptures for days 
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Jun 3, 2015 00:15
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Crow Jane posted:I work at an art museum that specializes in the very ancient through 1850 or so. Because most of our long-standing members and general clientele have been dying off lately, we have also been faced with the problem of courting millenials. Someone was paid a lot of money to come up with the idea of a selfie contest, where people take their pictures in front of a work of art and tag the museum when they post it. Tons of people did, because it's kind of a fun idea. No one under the age of 60 is actually signing up for membership, of course, but we have duckfaces in front of Roman sculptures for days My local museums have started 21+ nights where you can drink and go through the museum sans kids. They are an incredible blast to photograph and a tons of fun to boot. Last four events have sold out.  I like it when things I like prosper.
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Jun 3, 2015 01:21
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VendaGoat posted:My local museums have started 21+ nights where you can drink and go through the museum sans kids. They are an incredible blast to photograph and a tons of fun to boot. Yeah, we do something similar, and it is great. The problem is, the museum is already free to the public, mainly due to a combination of a grant from the city and proceeds from memberships. The city isn't exactly in the best place right now, and with the older generations dying off, the marketing team is essentially tasked with trying to convince broke young people to pay for what has more or less been a free service for years. No one wants to go the PBS/NPR annoy-people-til-they-throw-their-wallets-at-us route, of course, but the lack of new blood has begun to have serious repercussions and there have been a lot of scary cutbacks recently. It's a tricky situation, and one that's sadly becoming a problem with a lot of non-profits.
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Jun 3, 2015 01:51
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Crow Jane posted:Yeah, we do something similar, and it is great. The problem is, the museum is already free to the public, mainly due to a combination of a grant from the city and proceeds from memberships. The city isn't exactly in the best place right now, and with the older generations dying off, the marketing team is essentially tasked with trying to convince broke young people to pay for what has more or less been a free service for years. No one wants to go the PBS/NPR annoy-people-til-they-throw-their-wallets-at-us route, of course, but the lack of new blood has begun to have serious repercussions and there have been a lot of scary cutbacks recently. It's a tricky situation, and one that's sadly becoming a problem with a lot of non-profits. How to get younger generations interested in the "arts-history-humanities-take your loving pick" It's turning out to be a systemic problem at the moment. Here, booze and pop culture are easing the transition. I have no experience with other areas. I imagine you would need a liaison/bridge between the cultures. A person like that though is few and far between. For me, the bridge has been photography. Pictures have an impact, no matter your age. Being able to see, whatever it is, brings something to a personal level. It can evoke an emotion, whether good or bad, in a moments time. IME, it's mostly having the older generation connect with the younger, and not ther other way around. I'm sure this is a geographical metric though. Other areas I have visited, I don't see having the same issues. Different issue sure, but not these.  We all need to find a conduit of communication. Common ground.
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Jun 3, 2015 01:58
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VendaGoat posted:How to get younger generations interested in the "arts-history-humanities-take your loving pick" It's turning out to be a systemic problem at the moment. That's a systemic problem, really; the reason millenials care less about that than their parents/grandparents is because of the same stuff I was talking about before. They're loving broke. Who cares if I can go see some Roman statues? I'm out of food, rent is due, and I haven't paid anything on my student loans in four months. I have other poo poo to worry about. Booze helps sure but one very real problem is that millenials are in the situation where a lot of them are worried about just not starving to death. It's also kind of hard to be motivated to leave the house if you graduated two years ago and literally nobody has a job for you.
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Jun 3, 2015 03:07
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Crow Jane posted:I work at an art museum that specializes in the very ancient through 1850 or so. Because most of our long-standing members and general clientele have been dying off lately, we have also been faced with the problem of courting millenials. Someone was paid a lot of money to come up with the idea of a selfie contest, where people take their pictures in front of a work of art and tag the museum when they post it. Tons of people did, because it's kind of a fun idea. No one under the age of 60 is actually signing up for membership, of course, but we have duckfaces in front of Roman sculptures for days Heh, I volunteer with the American Contract Bridge League and there is obviously a similar problem with members dying off. The thing is, we're constantly told to tell young people "bridge is cool. Tell your friends it's cool." I just say "bridge is nerdy, but if you're a nerd who likes puzzles and has friends, it's pretty much the best thing ever." Old people/ad moguls can't get it through their head that being nerdy isn't a scarlet letter anymore. If I was a millennial, and someone said, "look being a paid member of the museum is a pretty good way to impress chicks by looking cultured, while still technically going on free dates," I'd be all "hell yes." Drunk Nerds has a new favorite as of 03:15 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 03:12
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's a systemic problem, really; the reason millenials care less about that than their parents/grandparents is because of the same stuff I was talking about before. They're loving broke. Who cares if I can go see some Roman statues? I'm out of food, rent is due, and I haven't paid anything on my student loans in four months. I have other poo poo to worry about. Can I ask your geographical location?
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Jun 3, 2015 03:24
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Crow Jane posted:Yeah, we do something similar, and it is great. The problem is, the museum is already free to the public, mainly due to a combination of a grant from the city and proceeds from memberships. The city isn't exactly in the best place right now, and with the older generations dying off, the marketing team is essentially tasked with trying to convince broke young people to pay for what has more or less been a free service for years. No one wants to go the PBS/NPR annoy-people-til-they-throw-their-wallets-at-us route, of course, but the lack of new blood has begun to have serious repercussions and there have been a lot of scary cutbacks recently. It's a tricky situation, and one that's sadly becoming a problem with a lot of non-profits. Ever since I bought tickets, they've been hounding the family with calls asking for donations. There's no use in telling them we're broke or not interested. They'll call back two days later. On top of that, we get gobs of junk mail every month, and additional calls and emails asking us to become yearly ticket members or encouraging us like to purchase tickets for their upcoming concert series. It's like they smelled fresh blood and attacked. I can't imagine a better way to turn people off your organization. e: What I'm saying is, I agree that it's rough. And the "annoy them until they give us money" just doesn't work anymore. hyperhazard has a new favorite as of 03:28 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 03:24
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For our first anniversary (the "paper" anniversary) I got season tickets to the opera for my wife. We both really enjoyed it, and I assumed we'd go again. A few months before the next opera season the opera company started calling me every day trying to peddle another set of season tickets. Even after I told them I wasn't interested (most of the operas that season weren't that appealing) they only stopped calling when I got the phone company to block the number. Even though we had a good time, my desire to not reward their lack of respect will prevent me from ever buying a ticket from that specific company again. That's my anecdote of millennials responding poorly to hard-sell marketing/sales techniques.
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Jun 3, 2015 03:51
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Yeah, my local VPR affiliate is pretty much the only radio I listen to in my car, but I switch to the only remaining classic rock station in the area(the only other option besides pop or country) when its pledge drive season. My commute's only 10-15 minutes, the begging for money segments take up the whole drat drive. I don't have the money to donate even if I wanted to, anyways.
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Jun 3, 2015 04:01
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Donkey posted:For our first anniversary (the "paper" anniversary) I got season tickets to the opera for my wife. We both really enjoyed it, and I assumed we'd go again. A few months before the next opera season the opera company started calling me every day trying to peddle another set of season tickets. Even after I told them I wasn't interested (most of the operas that season weren't that appealing) they only stopped calling when I got the phone company to block the number. Even though we had a good time, my desire to not reward their lack of respect will prevent me from ever buying a ticket from that specific company again. That's a pretty good paper anniversary. My wife got me Radio Head tickets. I can't remember what the gently caress I got her. poo poo, my anniversary is in a couple weeks and I have not once thought about what I'm getting her... Thanks for the stealth reminder.
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Jun 3, 2015 04:25
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hyperhazard posted:And the "annoy them until they give us money" just doesn't work anymore. The internet has conditioned a lot of people to just be willing to wade through a lot of bullshit up front, and deal with a lot of chasers on the far side, if it means they get what they want in the middle. Even the people who aren't particularly tech-savvy are used to clicking through poo poo to get at what they want. I'm used to ignoring almost anything with a price on it- I know that if I want something, I want the best one that is still cost-effective, and I'll just go find that myself. And I think we're no longer willing to just put up with this poo poo if there's a way we can block it forever. Look at how many people have installed ad blocking software for their browsers. The only ads I genuinely like seeing are the ones that make me aware of the availability of a thing I wasn't aware of before, and those only work once- I'll usually hear about anything I actually give a drat about through the enthusiast press anyway. Missing out on the occasional thing is worth not having to see pages cluttered with the one weird trick this mom figured out, or avoid being spammed for months after putting my signature on a petition. Yes, we miss out. But we also don't have to put up with poo poo. I got ad blocking software after auto-playing music and unfolding bar ads showed up- I was a staunch advocate for letting the ads play up until that point of then-maximum disrespect. And a lot of people seem willing to miss out in order to not have to put up with poo poo. The dumb move in marketing was thinking that being more annoying was going to work forever.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:13
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hyperhazard posted:. And the "annoy them until they give us money" just doesn't work anymore. In some cases it's fatal  quote:Charities have expressed concern and sorrow at the death of the 92-year-old poppy-seller Olive Cooke, whose body was found in a rocky gorge after she had said she felt hounded by requests from fundraisers for donations. edit- Dunno if it a UK only thing - she sold these paper poppies for Remembrance Day - 
Rondette has a new favorite as of 05:47 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 05:45
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Wait, what? Why would charities hound a florist for donations? I read the article, and it still doesn't seem to be gelling.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:59
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Rondette posted:In some cases it's fatal We sell those in NZ for ANZAC Day. I've never been hounded over them, and people usually leave a tray of them next to a donation bucket.
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Jun 3, 2015 06:07
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I cancelled my membership to the Monterey Bay Aquarium because they hired an angry woman to call us once a week and harass us into donating even more. Maybe she was just failing miserably at trying the guilt angle, but even that would have pissed me off. I donated what I felt I could donate. Now kindly gently caress off.
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Jun 3, 2015 06:22
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Here in Alberta we had a couple people straight up stealing the donation buckets from a few places. Millenials gotta eat bruh
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Jun 3, 2015 06:27
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There's been a commercial for a car renting business around here where a guy gets totally ignored at work, and it's just really sad, so he rents a convertible and suddenly he's getting noticed. All I can think of is "wow, that guy's a loser... that's who you think your clients are?"
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Jun 3, 2015 06:44
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You could be traveling the country and having a great time. Or you could be paying your rent and eating better than beans and rice. With our prices, the choice will be easy. Krogers. Where you dollar goes further.
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Jun 3, 2015 06:46
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CommissarMega posted:Wait, what? Why would charities hound a florist for donations? I read the article, and it still doesn't seem to be gelling. No, they are paper poppies that you wear, she isn't a florist. She was probably standing on the street selling these as a volunteer. Anticheese posted:We sell those in NZ for ANZAC Day. I've never been hounded over them, and people usually leave a tray of them next to a donation bucket. My guess is she sold the Poppies, donated the proceeds in her name and they had all her contact details and kept ringing up to get her to donate more. They probably passed her details on to other places too so she was getting a lot of calls from loads of different charities.
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Jun 3, 2015 09:30
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jidohanbaiki posted:I cancelled my membership to the Monterey Bay Aquarium because they hired an angry woman to call us once a week and harass us into donating even more. Maybe she was just failing miserably at trying the guilt angle, but even that would have pissed me off. I donated what I felt I could donate. Now kindly gently caress off. The WWF used to do that to me until I sent them a sternly worded letter accusing them of harassment and threatening to withdraw my donation of £5 a month. Constant phonecalls during the evenings and weekends. The Monterey Bay aquarium was cool when I went ~7 years ago.
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Jun 3, 2015 11:27
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Rondette posted:My guess is she sold the Poppies, donated the proceeds in her name and they had all her contact details and kept ringing up to get her to donate more. They probably passed her details on to other places too so she was getting a lot of calls from loads of different charities. Huh, that makes sense- kind of. Still though, there must be better ways to get charity money other than calling people who've already donated. if you MAKE them donate, that's not charity anymore, that's extortion- didn't these idiots see that? 
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Jun 3, 2015 11:40
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sassassin posted:The WWF used to do that to me until I sent them a sternly worded letter accusing them of harassment and threatening to withdraw my donation of £5 a month. Constant phonecalls during the evenings and weekends. You better watch out. Stone Cold Steve Austin might come out and DROP A STUNNER ON YOU MAH GAWD
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Jun 3, 2015 12:44
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Big Mad Drongo posted:I think a big part of the problem is no one knows how to properly define what a Millennial is; I've seen the birth dates range from 1977 to 2014 (the latter being about baby food and defined current babies as the last of the Millennials), though most are from 1980-2000 or so. I've usually seen the break down as X ending at 79 and Y starting at 84 with 80- 83 getting lumped in a small sub generation due to them being the last group to gain cognizance before the end of the Cold War.
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Jun 3, 2015 13:41
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 Their website is http://www.weteachboys.org/ It's accurate, I guess, it just seems a little unsavoury.
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Jun 3, 2015 14:32
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Tiggum posted:
They seem really fixated on the word "boys" specifically, it's kinda creepy. Do they really hve to shoehorn the word "boys" into every sentence? E: I mean, jeez, we have such a thing as boys' schools here in Australia, that's not the issue, it's just that they're normally called boys' schools, not grammar schools for boys boys boys boys.
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Jun 3, 2015 14:42
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