p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Tiny Bug Child posted:

i think he's talking about one-off objects that don't use prototypes, so it'd be

MyObject = {
foo: function() {
...
}
}

instead. being able to just make objects on the fly like that and give them whatever properties they need is one of my fav things about javascript but it's v jarring if you expect traditional inheritance everywhere

i mean dynamically typed prototypical inheritance is fine if you're ok w/ just writing programs and not having to read them

i dislike traditional inheritance but i would still prefer seeing that than prototypical inheritance

# ? Jun 2, 2015 03:31

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 19:01

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

Nim is bad. In part because of gradients on the website. Its main three problems are

Indentation-sensitive syntax, Python style, is objectively worse than the alternative.
Case-insensitivity and underscore-insensitivity in the identifier lookup syntax.
Implicit pass-by-mutable-reference.

The second might not be in the top 3 of bad features, but it's the top piece of evidence the language designers are clowns.

The docs literally say

code:

divmod(8, 5, x, y) # modifies x and y

without apologizing.

sarehu fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Jun 2, 2015

# ? Jun 2, 2015 08:08

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

It's worse than I remember.

quote:

The number of spaces preceding a non-keyword operator affects precedence if the experimental parser directive #!strongSpaces is used. Indentation is not used to determine the number of spaces. If 2 or more operators have the same number of preceding spaces the precedence table applies, so 1 + 3 * 4 is still parsed as 1 + (3 * 4), but 1+3 * 4 is parsed as (1+3) * 4

Furthermore whether an operator is used a prefix operator is affected by the number of spaces:
code:
#! strongSpaces
echo $foo
# is parsed as
echo($foo)
This also affects whether [], {}, () are parsed as constructors or as accessors:
code:
#! strongSpaces
echo (1,2)
# is parsed as
echo((1,2))

edit: gently caress me i used [fixed] tags in YOSPOS.

Edit: Also their mix of Python style indentation and other separators is bat-poo poo.

code:

type
  Direction = enum
    north, east, south, west

sarehu fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Jun 2, 2015

# ? Jun 2, 2015 08:15

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

what the gently caress

I mean whitespace sensitivity if debatable, and the case insensitivity is awful but quite p-langy

But randomly and silently (okay a directive at the top of the file) messing with operator precedence is indefensible

# ? Jun 2, 2015 08:47

Kathleen: Feb 26, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Bloody posted:

no because c is bad and rust is bad and nobody will ever use rust

what don't you like about rust?

# ? Jun 2, 2015 09:00

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

Rust is awesome if you want acyclic data structures, manually chained error-handling, and other functional programming fetishes.

# ? Jun 2, 2015 09:50

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

sarehu posted:

Rust is awesome if you want acyclic data structures, manually chained error-handling, and other functional programming fetishes.

yes, yes, keep talking...

# ? Jun 2, 2015 10:15

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

i suggested a programming language where whitespace decreases operator precedence about a year ago, as a horrible joke

# ? Jun 2, 2015 10:28

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

qntm posted:

i suggested a programming language where whitespace decreases operator precedence about a year ago, as a horrible joke

that's pretty neat though

# ? Jun 2, 2015 10:38

EVGA Longoria: Dec 25, 2005; Let's go exploring!

Bloody posted:

didn't you hear?.net on the bad oses. the Grand c# rapture is coming, and shaggar is it's prophet

legit happy that this is happening and can't wait till i can actually use .NET with better tooling

nuGet more like nuGet the gently caress out of here

# ? Jun 2, 2015 11:33

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Fun GHC bug: having the haskell platform installed makes the Rust installer fail.

# ? Jun 2, 2015 12:23

Serenade: Nov 5, 2011; "I should really learn to fucking read"

gonadic io posted:

Fun GHC bug: having the haskell platform installed makes the Rust installer fail.

Built in intervention

# ? Jun 2, 2015 13:05

cowboy beepboop: Feb 24, 2001

sarehu posted:

Rust is awesome if you want acyclic data structures, manually chained error-handling, and other functional programming fetishes.

# ? Jun 2, 2015 13:08

Tiny Bug Child: Sep 11, 2004; Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

i really like that thing where spaces affect precedence, but since all my coworkers seem to think whitespace should be inserted into code at random i will concede that it's probably not a good idea irl

# ? Jun 2, 2015 14:20

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

COBOL was whitespace sensitive

python and nim authors learned nothing from history

# ? Jun 2, 2015 14:35

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

... how do you know so much about cobol, Nbsd?

# ? Jun 2, 2015 14:39

ElGroucho: Nov 1, 2005; We already - What about sticking our middle fingers up... That was insane; Fun Shoe

Blotto Skorzany posted:

... how do you know so much about cobol, Nbsd?

NBSD: "Uh, uh..... brackets rule!" * jumps out window*

# ? Jun 2, 2015 14:45

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

sarehu posted:

It's worse than I remember.

edit: gently caress me i used [fixed] tags in YOSPOS.

Edit: Also their mix of Python style indentation and other separators is bat-poo poo.
code:
type
  Direction = enum
    north, east, south, west

jiminy christmas

# ? Jun 2, 2015 14:52

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

focal ischemia posted:

what don't you like about rust?

what is the problem it is solving that isn't already better solved by c#?

# ? Jun 2, 2015 15:02

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

sarehu posted:

Nim is bad. In part because of gradients on the website. Its main three problems are

Indentation-sensitive syntax, Python style, is objectively worse than the alternative.

Case-insensitivity and underscore-insensitivity in the identifier lookup syntax.

Implicit pass-by-mutable-reference.

The second might not be in the top 3 of bad features, but it's the top piece of evidence the language designers are clowns.

The docs literally say
code:
divmod(8, 5, x, y) # modifies x and y
without apologizing.

i hope you can set up callbacks so that your local variable references get mutated some time after calling a function

comedyblissoption fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jun 2, 2015

# ? Jun 2, 2015 15:04

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

what is with the fetish-ism of overloading function parameters to also mean output variables (and not just merely for evaluating side effects on an input parameter) when you could just provide tuple destructuring syntax that compiles to something similar

even the C# std library has this (e.g. tryparse) and it's just baffling, although at least C# has the decency to notate certain parameters of a function explicitly as intended for output in the language itself

comedyblissoption fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jun 2, 2015

# ? Jun 2, 2015 15:28

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

COBOL was whitespace sensitive

python and nim authors learned nothing from history

many C preprocessors were sensitive to having the # of a directive in column 1

# ? Jun 2, 2015 16:01

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

btw subjunctive, i've been meaning to ask for a while: is your av the pseudodog face from stalker?

# ? Jun 2, 2015 17:03

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Blotto Skorzany posted:

btw subjunctive, i've been meaning to ask for a while: is your av the pseudodog face from stalker?

it's a crop from a troll in Shadows of Mordor, I should get a better one

# ? Jun 2, 2015 17:04

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Subjunctive posted:

it's a crop from a troll in Shadows of Mordor, I should get a better one

a mind controlled one!

# ? Jun 2, 2015 17:18

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

fortran used to be whitespace sensitive

nobody else has any excuse

# ? Jun 2, 2015 17:53

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

is haskell really the only language that lets you freely choose (per block) between {;} and whitespace to separate statements

# ? Jun 2, 2015 17:58

Vanadium: Jan 8, 2005

there's also javascript

# ? Jun 2, 2015 19:04

Killmaster: Jun 18, 2002

I believe ruby does that too

# ? Jun 2, 2015 19:14

Skarp: Sep 27, 2013

polymer 1.0 looks pretty handy, anyone use it yet? or older versions? just to add on workable components to an existing web app.

# ? Jun 2, 2015 22:29

cowboy beepboop: Feb 24, 2001

Bloody posted:

what is the problem it is solving that isn't already better solved by c#?

it makes janitoring your stack and heap nicer than c and c++

# ? Jun 2, 2015 23:10

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

gonadic io posted:

a mind controlled one!

yeah, the idea of a troll that can't control itself seemed appropriate for the forum

# ? Jun 3, 2015 02:24

Kathleen: Feb 26, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Bloody posted:

what is the problem it is solving that isn't already better solved by c#?

it's a low-level systems language, it's not designed for the things c# is

# ? Jun 3, 2015 14:20

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

how trivial is ffi

# ? Jun 3, 2015 14:53

Kathleen: Feb 26, 2013; Grimey Drawer

i agree, it is easy to call rust-developed libs from higher-level languages

# ? Jun 3, 2015 15:14

Arcsech: Aug 5, 2008

Bloody posted:

how trivial is ffi

It is easy to call rust from everything, including c.

It is easy to call c from rust. Everything else is a bit more difficult.

# ? Jun 3, 2015 15:45

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Arcsech posted:

It is easy to call c from *. Everything else is a bit more difficult.

# ? Jun 3, 2015 15:50

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Blotto Skorzany posted:

... how do you know so much about cobol, Nbsd?

i don't

# ? Jun 5, 2015 03:16

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

sarehu posted:

Case-insensitivity and underscore-insensitivity in the identifier lookup syntax.

People are not laughing as much at this as they should be.

A cursory glance some time ago suggested that Nim might be interesting. Guess not. My language is saner.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 10:32

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 19:01

b0lt: Apr 29, 2005

Athas posted:

People are not laughing as much at this as they should be.

A cursory glance some time ago suggested that Nim might be interesting. Guess not. My language is saner.

Case insensitivity is retarded, but underscore insensitivity?!

# ? Jun 5, 2015 10:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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