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Also, this: http://www.nceo.org/articles/stock-options-alternative-minimum-tax-amt (You'll almost certainly be getting ISOs from a startup. And yes, it is correct that it is possible to incur AMT liability for options that you literally can't exercise or liquidate or sell to pay said AMT. Being 1099 vs W2 doesn't change that part, but it's still lovely.)
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May 25, 2015 05:18
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Kalenn Istarion posted:It's on the longer side of normal but it's not out of the ordinary either. I had one company have me spend over 20 hours over a weekend doing a case study, which is another thing that's becoming much more common. So it turns out that what the recruiters REALLY wanted was a one hour meeting and the 10am to 4pm was just the time frame. Jesus tittyfucking christ, I thought techies hired people persons because they were good at communication.
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May 26, 2015 14:29
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bolind posted:So it turns out that what the recruiters REALLY wanted was a one hour meeting and the 10am to 4pm was just the time frame. Jesus tittyfucking christ, I thought techies hired people persons because they were good at communication. So that they didn't have to communicate, you mean? I've met good and bad recruiter people, varies wildly.
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May 26, 2015 14:34
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Well, yeah, techies hire communication majors so the comm. majors can do the communication for the techies. (Q.E.D., I guess.) Anyhoo, no matter the outcome I've learned a lot about this process. Next time I'll be MUCH more proactive, and demand a full schedule for what happens when instead of letting the recruiters run the show.
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May 26, 2015 14:57
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Either way, hope you get the job!
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May 26, 2015 16:30
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Richard Noggin posted:I'm beginning the negotiation process this week. I've never had to negotiate before - my previous jobs have been massive salary bumps. This time it's different. I'm currently a systems/network admin making $82,500, 3 weeks PTO (vacation, sick, bereavement - pretty much everything), 401(k) with 3% employer match, and I pay approximately $300/month for health and dental for myself, my wife, and my son. I am the final candidate for the Director of IT position for a municipality. They have a published max of $85,000. Starting vacation is 2 weeks, then after 5 years gets bumped to 3, and after 10, 4. I would also accrue 12 days of sick time per year. Because this is a municipal position, I'd be entitled to state retirement benefits. I'd contribute 7% gross, while my employer would contribute almost 11%. Health insurance would be pretty cheap (I'd be responsible for 10% or less of the premium), but don't have the exact figures just yet. Update: success. Got the job at max with an extra week of vaca, which apparently has never been successfully done before at this organization. 
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May 28, 2015 01:27
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Richard Noggin posted:Update: success. Got the job at max with an extra week of vaca, which apparently has never been successfully done before at this organization. Great! Out of curiosity, who folded first on the salary disclosure question, you, or them? Dwight Eisenhower fucked around with this message at 14:07 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 14:04
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Looking for a little guidance. I work at 20+ employee company. My hourly rate is well below the average for a CAD manager at most companys in the midwest. I haven't had a raise in three years. And we have zero reviews or formal processes. I've managed my butt off and have prevented us from losing $800k+ in contracts in the last 3 months. I am listed as the Cad Manager on large legal contracts, and our clients interact with me as the CAD Manager, but am listed as a technician on company sheets. I am paid as a technician. I am not looking specifically for the title promotion, just a pay increase reflective of the job I've been doing for the last 3 years. A cad tech 3, or a Cad Manager at the lower end of the curve in the Midwest, makes $65k or $32/hour. That would be a $8/hr or $16k raise. To replace me they would be paying at least $35/hour +overtime I am going to send my payraise request directly to the president next week. We are a small company and I've been been working directly with him on our largest CAD project ever. (the one I just saved) I was managing his role on the project because he decided to take a production role instead of PM the project himself. He was too intimidated by the scope and impact of this project. Any advice or good resources for typing a request for a pay raise? tldr: I'm going to email a request for a pay raise. Any advice?
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May 28, 2015 16:01
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Great! I wound up disclosing late in the game. It didn't affect the outcome.
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May 28, 2015 17:07
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Deegan posted:Looking for a little guidance. I'd have a face-to-face conversation going over what you're basically going to e-mail, then e-mail it. I'd also find a new job.
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May 28, 2015 17:13
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Is it worth disclosing salary if I already know my current salary is higher than they can afford to pay me (and am okay with that)? I figure that might at least get me their top range.
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May 28, 2015 18:03
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Deegan posted:Looking for a little guidance. Yeah, get a job offer from a competitor that you would be keen on accepting ASAP. Also, probably gently caress your company in the ear and get a new job anyway.
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May 28, 2015 22:14
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Xandu posted:Is it worth disclosing salary if I already know my current salary is higher than they can afford to pay me (and am okay with that)? I figure that might at least get me their top range. No, you will just scare them into thinking you will get restless and start looking for a new job six months in.
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May 28, 2015 22:18
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I need a little advice for making the best out of this situation. I've been interviewing at a few different places now, and last week the recruiter for one of them said they want to make a written offer once they talked to my references. Yesterday, they got back to me saying that they can't give me the agreed salary but they promise they'll have the written offer next week. I'm pretty pissed, because my references were former coworkers (this is my first job) who might still be in touch with my boss, so I've gotta assume he knows I'm looking for a job. They probably were planning on doing this to pressure me into taking the job for a lower salary. Here's my understanding of the situation. In other words, not this one. The company and the recruiter were probably planning on something like this from the start, and I got played. I could ask for something else (i.e. they offer 15K less than the number I was expecting, I counter with 10 less and transportation covered, which is about 1,200 in NYC), but I get the feeling they were always planning to drop the offer and completely refuse to negotiate at all. My current employer is a large, very bureaucratic multinational, and my team's currently short a few people, so I can tell the recruiter and their company to pound sand and have a few months to keep looking. I could try for a counteroffer - I actually like my job (well, the team and the non-salary benefits) and I'd very gladly stay if they gave a counteroffer. My current boss has mentioned interviewing at other places, and specifically said that it's okay to do that, so I think I have a chance at getting one. I'm just not sure how to get one. I've never been in this position before. Should I try and negotiate with this place, bring whatever they offer to my boss and try for a counteroffer, or decline this, say nothing to my boss, and keep looking?
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May 30, 2015 18:46
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How exactly did you get played? If you can't trust your references to not give you a good reference or tell your boss then you need to find better references. If money isn't the only reason you're leaving then taking a counter offer is generally a bad idea as you're just delaying leaving. It's also high risk as you basically need to tell your boss you have an offer and plan on leaving. If he doesn't give a counter offer you're pretty screwed.
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May 30, 2015 19:46
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I don't know for sure, but I think that one or two of my references might've told them what they make (one of them was my manager when I started), or what they think I make. Almost everyone who works on my team started right out of college, and my boss is the only one who didn't. So they might not have known why the recruiter would be asking, and the recruiter might've taken advantage of that and gone back to the company and said "hey, he's only making this much, you can drop your salary offer because it's still a big raise for him". The other thing it could be is money issues. This place is a startup, and the recruiter mentioned a few times that the CEO and CTO were really busy with surprise client and investor issues, which is why they needed to reschedule interviews and haven't had a written offer yet. Money is definitely the big reason. I didn't have an offer on graduating, so I didn't have any room to negotiate, and as such I'm pretty underpaid for a developer in NYC. If they gave me a raise to a competitive salary I'd stay as long as I could. I like my team, the job is pretty low stress, I've been given more responsibilities and told I do good work, and the non pay benefits are stellar (I got nearly 6 weeks vacation this year).
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May 30, 2015 20:17
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Ask what they said if you're curious, but a company revising down your offer due to what a reference said is any or all of the following: A convenient lie they are telling you A sign you don't want to work there A weird situation you should not accept
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May 31, 2015 01:25
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I'll ask them on Monday. I'm gonna tell the recruiter that if they're "not prepared" to pay me 100K; I'm not prepared to work for their client. I get the feeling they were planning on pulling this poo poo from the very beginning. I guess I should see it I can use their offer to swing a raise here. If they won't, I've got other places I'm interviewing at.
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May 31, 2015 01:48
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null gallagher posted:I've been interviewing at a few different places now, and last week the recruiter for one of them said they want to make a written offer once they talked to my references. Yesterday, they got back to me saying that they can't give me the agreed salary but they promise they'll have the written offer next week. I'm pretty pissed, because my references were former coworkers (this is my first job) who might still be in touch with my boss, so I've gotta assume he knows I'm looking for a job. They probably were planning on doing this to pressure me into taking the job for a lower salary. Why would you continue to negotiate with someone who has apparently unilaterally changed agreed upon terms? Do you expect whatever you negotiate for now to stand the test of the other party's fecklessness and bad faith? Do you want to work for a company that would do this?
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May 31, 2015 01:49
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I'm sure someone has been in a similar position to the one I'm in now, so maybe someone can offer me some insight or advice. My annual review is coming up, and I had put together a pretty good case for landing a substantial raise. However, my boss got shitcanned for embezzling money, so now he isn't there to do my review. He was basically the boss, and above him was the board members, who have no day to day relationship with my place of employ. It's a little bit more nuanced and there are a couple of things going on, but essentially my biggest question is: how do I make sure I'm still making a strong case for myself if I have to be reviewed by a (basically) total outsider? Right now I feel like my approach can be essentially the same, in that I can point out all of the ways that I work to make the clinic run better/more smoothly/enhance client experience/etc. My second big thing previously was to point out the growth in skill level that I've made since starting at this clinic fresh out of school, and I am of two minds about that: my 90 day review was kind of poo poo on paper in some areas (wrongly - I kick rear end for someone in my job fresh out of school, but the old boss was never around so he basically just made up his reviews), but I got a 15% raise, so I think I might be able to use that to show a huge jump in ability and skills and capabilities. In doing that, though, I kind of feel like that legitimizes the crappy review from before, which does not sound ideal to me. TL;DR my annual review is coming up, but my boss embezzled and got shitcanned. Now a stranger has to review me and doesn't have any previous knowledge of my skills except for the lovely review I got at my 90 day mark (after which I still got a 15% raise). How can I best approach this? E: Oh, and as part of the chaos from the boss getting fired, the board members have come in and realized that the support staff (me and my group) are woefully underpaid. There has been a lot of talk about the support staff all getting raises once things are stabilized (but who knows when that is, or if it'll happen?) I don't want to just sit on my hands and wait for them to give me a mediocre raise if I can knock it out of the park and get a real, worthwhile bump. Not Grover fucked around with this message at 02:31 on May 31, 2015 |
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May 31, 2015 02:29
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MickeyFinn posted:Why would you continue to negotiate with someone who has apparently unilaterally changed agreed upon terms? Do you expect whatever you negotiate for now to stand the test of the other party's fecklessness and bad faith? Do you want to work for a company that would do this? The more I think about this, the more I think you're correct. This seems very planned out and in bad faith; they were never going to offer me 100K but waited to tell me that so I'd feel like I couldn't turn it down. But I am going to turn it down, because if they're acting in bad faith like this right now, it'll be worse when they're signing my paychecks. I'm just not sure how to handle this with my manager. No way am I taking whatever they offer me, though.
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May 31, 2015 04:37
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null gallagher posted:I'll ask them on Monday. I'm gonna tell the recruiter that if they're "not prepared" to pay me 100K; I'm not prepared to work for their client. I get the feeling they were planning on pulling this poo poo from the very beginning. Hard to use an offer to retrace if it's not written down. You don't have to show it to your current employer but you should have a formal offer on paper before you try to renegotiate. Consider the scenario where you try to retrade, get shown the door, and then they pull the offer because the CEO doesn't like the colour of your socks. Not Grover posted:I'm sure someone has been in a similar position to the one I'm in now, so maybe someone can offer me some insight or advice. My annual review is coming up, and I had put together a pretty good case for landing a substantial raise. However, my boss got shitcanned for embezzling money, so now he isn't there to do my review. He was basically the boss, and above him was the board members, who have no day to day relationship with my place of employ. It's a little bit more nuanced and there are a couple of things going on, but essentially my biggest question is: how do I make sure I'm still making a strong case for myself if I have to be reviewed by a (basically) total outsider? Right now I feel like my approach can be essentially the same, in that I can point out all of the ways that I work to make the clinic run better/more smoothly/enhance client experience/etc. Only thing you can do is be factual, address any specific issues that were noted in your original review, and try to have external salary references.
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May 31, 2015 16:11
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null gallagher posted:The more I think about this, the more I think you're correct. This seems very planned out and in bad faith; they were never going to offer me 100K but waited to tell me that so I'd feel like I couldn't turn it down. But I am going to turn it down, because if they're acting in bad faith like this right now, it'll be worse when they're signing my paychecks. I'm just not sure how to handle this with my manager. No way am I taking whatever they offer me, though. Kick new guys to the curb. Tell them what you understood negotiated salary to be, what you understand it to be now, and that change being made unilaterally is unacceptable. The bridge is burned, and they burned it. Don't talk to your present employer about interviewing with other places. Just keep interviewing. If your present manager wasn't a reference, then don't assume he or she knows anything about what you are doing. If you want to try the counteroffer route wait until you have a signed offer in hand. Do not request a counteroffer. Inform your employer of your intent to resign and take the other offer. If they make a sufficient counteroffer, awesome. If they do not make a sufficient counteroffer, guiding them down that path was not going to work for you in the long run.
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Jun 1, 2015 14:44
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Does anyone have recommendations for alternatives to glassdoor for finding salaries in an area? I'm not finding much of anything for system / network administrators, and absolutely zero for junior positions. It's not urgent, but I want to start planning my pitch for a raise down the line. My only idea right now is to find positions in cities about an hour from here, and plan for any objections for cost of living/travel expenses.
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Jun 2, 2015 21:35
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Kick new guys to the curb. Tell them what you understood negotiated salary to be, what you understand it to be now, and that change being made unilaterally is unacceptable. The bridge is burned, and they burned it. I told them this over the phone this afternoon, in friendlier terms. That i was expecting 100K, and that hadn't changed. They said I wasn't actually worth that much, I was being unreasonable and overly concerned about money, but they'd reconsider my application if I lowered my salary expectation 10K. I'm pretty sure I dodged a colossal bullet there, especially since I'm still getting plenty of interviews. Heard nothing from my current manager. The one who was a reference is still at my company, but not in my department. He hasn't been my manager for a pretty long time.
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Jun 3, 2015 01:13
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null gallagher posted:They said I wasn't actually worth that much. Matter of opinion, but fair enough. Rules of the game. null gallagher posted:I was being unreasonable and overly concerned about money. Gotta love that part. Like anyone else than yourself is concerned about your financial well being. I've gotten that spiel from two different bosses ("money isn't everything, bolind"). OK, so give me some of yours then? Think you're correct in dodging a bullet there.
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Jun 3, 2015 13:18
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bolind posted:I've gotten that spiel from two different bosses ("money isn't everything, bolind"). OK, so give me some of yours then? Exactly this. Any time anyone comes along with "don''t be so concerned with money" the immediate retort should be "if concern for money is unreasonable you shouldn't concern yourself with giving me what I am asking for." It's basically at this point that the other party is burning bridges, though. I'd put even odds on them contacting you later saying they're ready to meet your demands. But you've already got enough information to know how to respond.
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Jun 3, 2015 14:32
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If they get back to me and they're willing to capitulate, I'm not listening. If they wanted me, they shouldn't have pulled that stunt in the first place. It sounds like I did the right thing. And it feels like I did the right thing too.
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Jun 3, 2015 15:49
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null gallagher posted:If they get back to me and they're willing to capitulate, I'm not listening. If they wanted me, they shouldn't have pulled that stunt in the first place. This is correct. You are done with them. Write about it on GlassDoor, move on.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:06
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null gallagher posted:If they get back to me and they're willing to capitulate, I'm not listening. If they wanted me, they shouldn't have pulled that stunt in the first place. This is absolutely the right move. Employers implicitly know they have a power imbalance, though they may not realize it in explicit terms. They have multiple employees while most people do not have multiple employers. Passing on, or firing an employee thus is not an all or nothing deal the way that passing on, or firing an employer is. Getting your ego to a point where you are comfortable rejecting an employer's unsatisfactory behavior means that you can narrow potential employers to only the ones who behave satisfactorily, and is probably the biggest step to having a rewarding career.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:40
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I've had a few conversations with a local recruiter about finding work. When we were first talking (before he even had a potential position for me) I told him my goal range for a position is $34/hr or about $70k/yr after some poking and prodding by him. He gave my resume and references to a company in the area who loved both, but the opening they had in mind for me is budgeted at the 28-30/hr range. The company knows I'm asking for 34 and as a result they are a little unsure of whether or not they want to even bring me in for an interview, as they have another candidate with more work experience and a lower asking price (but who has been out of our field for at least a year and is older with less room to grow). I sat down with my recruiter today and went through the talking points I've read here: it's a big step up in responsibility for me, I just moved here and the cost of living is higher, I want to hear more about the position and hear about how much they value the role etc. In the end he suggested 31/hr and I told him I could live with that if it would get me in front of their hiring manager, at which point I could directly make my case as to why I'm worth 34/hr. Honestly I'm willing to negotiate and even 30/hr would be a big increase over my previous job, and I could live on that just fine. At the same time I was extremely under-valued at my last job and I don't want to feel that way again, and I know that if I get a higher salary now it will continue to pay off in future negotiations (plus I'm getting married in a couple months and need to start paying for stuff). How should I approach this as I work to secure an interview, and then once the interview gets scheduled? FWIW my recruiter says he's "in my corner" and said he would talk to them and see where they might be flexible (such as a sign-on bonus), but he also confessed that he's representing this other candidate too so it's probably all the same to him. I'm in talks with a few other recruiters as well but this is my best shot at a job so far, so I'm trying to be as mindful as I can. E: Semi-related, but how do people feel about sharing current/latest compensation with a recruiting agency? I told this guy mine today but framed it as total compensation for last year (which is higher than my take-home pay for that year), then later I messaged the recruiter again and asked him not to share that number with the company in question. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Jun 4, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 17:14
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Exactly this. Any time anyone comes along with "don''t be so concerned with money" the immediate retort should be "if concern for money is unreasonable you shouldn't concern yourself with giving me what I am asking for." When an employer, who's business is to make money - usually explicitly so, says that an employee should worry less about money I think about a line from Treasure of the Sierra Madre: quote:Anyone who is willing to work and is serious about it will certainly find a job. Only you must not go to the man who tells you this, for he has no job to offer and doesn’t know anyone who knows of a vacancy. This is exactly the reason why he gives you such generous advice, out of brotherly love, and to demonstrate how little he knows the world.
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Jun 3, 2015 18:04
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Yeah this seems to have become a big thing with the millenials entering the workforce, more and more companies try to run sweatshops at slave wages but offer a "cool culture" and there are tons of ping pong matches and happy hour email chains and wacky poo poo on the walls and lots of crap like that. Of course job postings and salary negotiations always emphasize how money is not important and you want to be part of this amazing environment/team and IT'S SO MUCH FUN meanwhile the stakeholders are laughing their loving asses off every day while they walk to and from the bank. Don't fall for that poo poo, know what you're worth and fight for it. I mean there have always been companies like that even back in the 80s but it's become very widespread since 2007 or so.
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Jun 3, 2015 18:21
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The best is when those companies have to grow up and all that poo poo goes out the window in favour of actually operating, with a few notable exceptions of course.
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Jun 3, 2015 19:11
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:This is absolutely the right move. I might print that out and frame it. It echoes what one of my oldest friends said about this whole thing. Pryor on Fire posted:Yeah this seems to have become a big thing with the millenials entering the workforce, more and more companies try to run sweatshops at slave wages but offer a "cool culture" and there are tons of ping pong matches and happy hour email chains and wacky poo poo on the walls and lots of crap like that. Of course job postings and salary negotiations always emphasize how money is not important and you want to be part of this amazing environment/team and IT'S SO MUCH FUN meanwhile the stakeholders are laughing their loving asses off every day while they walk to and from the bank. Don't fall for that poo poo, know what you're worth and fight for it. I did CS and math in college, so I am no stranger to the startup "WORKING HERE IS FUN! WE HAVE AN XBOX!" pitch. It still sounds strange to me. I work at a very uncool and very corporate firm, but I leave at 5 nearly every day, I come in every day knowing exactly what I need to get done, and many of the people above me are lifers with an interest in trying to help subordinates develop. It has many flaws, but overall, it's nowhere near so horrible that I'm willing to jump ship to work for someone who isn't on the level, as this new place was. Explaining to technology recruiters that I'm looking for stable, established companies can be weird.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:05
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Thanks everyone for this great thread. Just got offered a job this week. HR sent the offer letter, I responded with a brief email using a bit of emotion and a lot of data (BLS) and got a counter offer the same day. 10 minutes of work yielded a 6.5k salary bump and a 4k increase in signing bonus. This was the cherry on top of the initial offer which was already a 20% increase over my current salary. Never don't negotiate people!
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Jun 5, 2015 15:45
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So, I just had a second phone interview with the head of HR for a senior level position I'm interested in. I'm currently a regular analyst. I haven't disclosed my salary, but he mentioned the range for the position I'm interviewing for and it's slightly less than what I currently make. However, it didn't seem like it was a hard range. The first interview I had with the internal recruiter, she mentioned the position salary range was based upon an applicant's experience, background, etc. During this second interview the head of HR mentioned the range but said "around" the range. The head of HR and the internal recruiter have not had a chance to talk yet since the head of HR has been out traveling. I already have an in-person scheduled with the hiring managers for next week and the recruiter will be following up on this second phone interview I had early next week as well. Should I mention my concern then since I would expect an increase in salary to go from Analyst to Senior Associate and the related increase of responsibility and workload that would entail? If a range is thrown out there, how much wiggle room is there normally?
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Jun 5, 2015 22:45
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Chaotic Flame posted:So, I just had a second phone interview with the head of HR for a senior level position I'm interested in. I'm currently a regular analyst. I haven't disclosed my salary, but he mentioned the range for the position I'm interviewing for and it's slightly less than what I currently make. However, it didn't seem like it was a hard range. The first interview I had with the internal recruiter, she mentioned the position salary range was based upon an applicant's experience, background, etc. During this second interview the head of HR mentioned the range but said "around" the range. The head of HR and the internal recruiter have not had a chance to talk yet since the head of HR has been out traveling. I already have an in-person scheduled with the hiring managers for next week and the recruiter will be following up on this second phone interview I had early next week as well. Should I mention my concern then since I would expect an increase in salary to go from Analyst to Senior Associate and the related increase of responsibility and workload that would entail? If a range is thrown out there, how much wiggle room is there normally? As a rule of thumb, when a company gives you a range they really mean the bottom. By talking money early they are trying to manage expectations. If you like the place but need/want money to leave your current job then wait for the offer and counter. If the promotion they are offering is a big step up consider staying money neutral but position up, then, in a year or so, move to a company that will pay.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:33
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Not Grover posted:E: Oh, and as part of the chaos from the boss getting fired, the board members have come in and realized that the support staff (me and my group) are woefully underpaid. There has been a lot of talk about the support staff all getting raises once things are stabilized (but who knows when that is, or if it'll happen?) I don't want to just sit on my hands and wait for them to give me a mediocre raise if I can knock it out of the park and get a real, worthwhile bump. So the raises didn't get discussed, the board just implemented them. Mine came out to be about 13%, which means from my starting pay I have gained about 27% in pay in my first year here between 90 day review and this raise from the board (39% if you count negotiating up from the initial offer). I am pretty happy with this, and was contemplating just leaving things as they were, but I also feel like this incidental raise is a separate thing from the merit based raise I would/should/hopefully will be getting when it's review time. I feel like it will be a harder sell to ask for a raise right after the round of raises in the same month. Any thoughts?
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Jun 6, 2015 04:05
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why did you take the job if you think you're still underpaid after a 27% raise? I think you're going to have a hard time negotiating more unless something about your job changed.
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Jun 6, 2015 06:36
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