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Even with the ability to move through them, and even with lots of windows, ruin walls are still meaningful if you play that you need enough movement to get the whole way through (which you should). My group also generally doesn't take dozer blades (simply because we don't have them on our models) so terrain is still a big risk.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:05
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Sulecrist posted:Even with the ability to move through them, and even with lots of windows, ruin walls are still meaningful if you play that you need enough movement to get the whole way through (which you should). My group also generally doesn't take dozer blades (simply because we don't have them on our models) so terrain is still a big risk. In my group, if it can take a dozer blade, it's gonna have a dozer blade. And after one weekend of just driving willy-nilly through walls and cutting corners, leaving vehicles perched at silly angles, we decided together that we were getting out of hand, and we needed to do something about it.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:18
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Master Twig posted:But the sentence "Vehicles are not obscured simply for being inside terrain such as woods or ruins. The 25% rule above takes precedence." on page 77 specifically says that it does not. Hmm I see that. Maybe every time I have seen this the vehicle just happens to also be 25% obscured. Also, the best a vehicle can get is a 3+ from cover, of course that is if it doesn't also have stealth/shrouded.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:18
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Wait, you can drive through walls? How does that even work? Clearly, I am the worst warham.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:24
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BULBASAUR posted:Wait, you can drive through walls? How does that even work? Just a dangerous terrain check if it's not a real building. You can't drive though crap that has an armor value. And man a lot of you play cover wrong. Twig is right, even with ruins obscuring is a 5+ not a 4+.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:27
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So if there's a piece of terrain without an AV you can drive your model right through a massive wall despite models behind said wall not having LOS? So, if I was going to play on some awesome cinematic terrain at Warhammer World, I could just teleport my rhino up ramparts and poo poo? So far this sounds seriously stupid, even for Warhammer.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:36
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Yeah, gently caress that poo poo. If there's a jacked up chunk of a building, you drive your poo poo around it. I get that having Orks plow through things and jump out of windows is cool, but for gently caress's sake.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:41
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Hixson posted:Whatsup ashamed to play your army buddy A shameful ham. You should be powerslamming D scythes into panascope day in and out while ridiculing his manhood in front of his wife and child.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:46
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A tank can probably ram through a crumbling ruin.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:51
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BULBASAUR posted:So if there's a piece of terrain without an AV you can drive your model right through a massive wall despite models behind said wall not having LOS? So, if I was going to play on some awesome cinematic terrain at Warhammer World, I could just teleport my rhino up ramparts and poo poo? LOS doesn't matter. If you don't want to have that happen call it impassible. Otherwise yeah, koolaid/bill paxton this poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhGWWY1nCWw Naramyth fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 20:54
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BULBASAUR posted:So if there's a piece of terrain without an AV you can drive your model right through a massive wall despite models behind said wall not having LOS? So, if I was going to play on some awesome cinematic terrain at Warhammer World, I could just teleport my rhino up ramparts and poo poo? Technically this works for infantry models too. Power armor is a hell of a thing.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:55
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Does anyone have a Big Trakk? I'm trying to determine the size compared to the current Trukk model. I'd love to pick it up for Gorkamorka, but I have a feeling it would be positively gigantic compared to the old buggies and trukks (not that the current trukk isn't huge compared to them.)
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Jun 3, 2015 20:56
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koreban posted:A shameful ham. You should be powerslamming D scythes into panascope day in and out while ridiculing his manhood in front of his wife and child. He hasn't been playing much because he's been "sick" or he "wants to spend time with his newborn child" or some other equally bullshit excuse
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Jun 3, 2015 20:57
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koreban posted:Technically this works for infantry models too. Power armor is a hell of a thing. gently caress, so are t-shirts.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:57
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Hixson posted:He hasn't been playing much because he's been "sick" or he "wants to spend time with his newborn child" or some other equally bullshit excuse Can't say I blame him. The shame of losing to your Eldar every week while you cheekily refer to him as M'Warlord is probably too much for his delicate sensibilities.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:00
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BULBASAUR posted:So if there's a piece of terrain without an AV you can drive your model right through a massive wall despite models behind said wall not having LOS? So, if I was going to play on some awesome cinematic terrain at Warhammer World, I could just teleport my rhino up ramparts and poo poo? It depends how high up the ramparts are, although I'm guessing the ramparts wouldn't be Ruins anyway. Also, vertical movement is measured the same way as horizontal movement. But if there's any wheeled vehicle that can climb walls, it's your hella sweet Rhino.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:25
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Wow those rules are dumb. Thanks dudes. Gonna go model my vehicles small so I can park them on top of vertical ledges and poo poo.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:33
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berzerkmonkey posted:Does anyone have a Big Trakk? I'm trying to determine the size compared to the current Trukk model. I'd love to pick it up for Gorkamorka, but I have a feeling it would be positively gigantic compared to the old buggies and trukks (not that the current trukk isn't huge compared to them.) I have the Ork Half-Trakk and it's going to be essentially the same size as they are based on the current Trukk chassis. My mobs use a mix of old vehicles and new and yeah, they are very different in size, but it's not a big deal. Having wildly different sizes of vehicles in GoMo doesn't really matter in my opinion, especially if you deliberately set up some narrow paths/canyons with the terrain so that littlerer vehicles can sneak through. Edit: sorry it seems actually the Big Trakk is not based on the trukk chassis, so I have no idea how big it is! I still don't think it matters though.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:40
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BULBASAUR posted:Wow those rules are dumb. Thanks dudes. Gonna go model my vehicles small so I can park them on top of vertical ledges and poo poo. If you're going to that much effort you should give them lots of crawly legs. If you make them sturdy enough and spaced properly, you can use them to grab onto windows and hold on halfway up. Plus people will have less of a knee-jerk problem with spider-Rhinos climbing walls and balancing on narrow rooftops than box-Rhinos. I think I'd have more of a problem with it if I could imagine any meaningful exploits that ALSO don't make any sense and ALSO aren't cool and fun, but I really can't. Edit: assuming we're still only talking about how vehicles interact with ruins. Edit: I guess having a trilas Predator balanced on top of a three-plus-story building might qualify. I think it'd have to be something relatively small, long-ranged, and direct-firing, and at that point it's going to be penalized by wasting multiple turns driving up there. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 21:46
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I play with my buildings as difficult area terrain so tanks can enter them. While they have ledges that troops can perch(since its all diffucult terrain and the ledges are 3 inches off the ground you cant get to them if your difficult terrain move is under three) on I've never tried to bring vehicles to ledges or actually do any vertical movement that didn't have a slop or hill(And would laugh at you if you tried it in a building then take my poo poo and go home(or kick you out of my house)). Skimmers are a different matter of course. Also... for you guys looking for simple easy area terrain go over to a Jo-Anns Fabrics and buy a bed of plastic grass. A square foot is like $10 and makes excellent bushy ground area. Easy to cut up too. 
Crab Dad fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 21:46
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BULBASAUR posted:So if there's a piece of terrain without an AV you can drive your model right through a massive wall despite models behind said wall not having LOS? So, if I was going to play on some awesome cinematic terrain at Warhammer World, I could just teleport my rhino up ramparts and poo poo? I always assumed it was the vehicles crashing through walls, even if you can't directly represent that on the terrain. The wall-climbing thing to get to the second story of a ruined chapel, that's another thing entirely.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:49
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Rulebook Heavily posted:I always assumed it was the vehicles crashing through walls, even if you can't directly represent that on the terrain. I've only ever seen walkers do it. I can't think of any non-skimmer, non-walker vehicles that are small enough to even fit up there. Warbuggies, maybe? I guess it depends on how big and stable the ruin's upper floors and roof are.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:53
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Bikes driving up walls is totally okay with me.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:55
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Hasn't it always been like this? We've been doing vehicle movement through difficult terrain like this in every group I've ever been a part of.serious gaylord posted:Bikes driving up walls is totally okay with me.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:56
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^^^^ I think in previous editions, models couldn't go through solid walls and/or needed ladders. Oh yeah bikes and infantry should be able to do whatever they want. Having to figure out doors and windows and ladders every time would be slow and dumb.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:57
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Sulecrist posted:Oh yeah bikes and infantry should be able to do whatever they want. Having to figure out doors and windows and ladders every time would be slow and dumb. Yeah, it works for Necromunda but in a game of this scale I'd rather do without it.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:58
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In 6th bikes and cav couldn't be on higher levels of ruins. It created weird "the floor is lava" situations where melee heavy armies (twolf cav, blood crushers) couldn't even assault units hiding on higher floors. It was stupid when those type of units couldn't assault a riptide, or a wave serpent, or a flyrant was stupid.
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Jun 3, 2015 22:18
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So is there any reason to not run an army of imperial knights? I like the idea of an army of 4 models.
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Jun 3, 2015 22:24
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I agree with the lack of limitations on things on infantry/beasts/cavalry and I understand the RAW with regards driving through ruins however instinctively I drive my vehicles around ruins I don't think they should be able to drive through. . In future my pre game conversation will be dicussing which buildings I think should be impassable for vehicles. I agree with bulbasaur that the freedom of movement is excessive. Even though bulbasaur recently used the 'L' word in this thread to describe those of British descent. You can't use that word. Only we can use that word.
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Jun 3, 2015 22:27
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Sigma-X posted:So is there any reason to not run an army of imperial knights? I like the idea of an army of 4 models. Previously, lack of Anti-Air- but the new ones can take that as well. So, no. No reason to not have every game of 40k be between Imp Knights and/or Eldar Wrathknights.
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Jun 3, 2015 22:29
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Sigma-X posted:So is there any reason to not run an army of imperial knights? I like the idea of an army of 4 models. Some highly opinionated angry nerd strangers might not play against you. So, no. There is no reason not to play an army of Knights.
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Jun 3, 2015 22:48
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Paging Stanyer69 to the 40 Kay thread. Stanyer69 to the 40 Kay thread please.
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Jun 3, 2015 22:49
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Rulebook Heavily posted:I always assumed it was the vehicles crashing through walls, even if you can't directly represent that on the terrain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SQV9mb8ABM
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Jun 3, 2015 23:08
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BULBASAUR posted:Paging Stanyer69 to the 40 Kay thread. Stanyer69 to the 40 Kay thread please. Beetlejuice... Beetlejuice... Beetlejuice.
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Jun 3, 2015 23:37
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berzerkmonkey posted:Does anyone have a Big Trakk? I'm trying to determine the size compared to the current Trukk model. I'd love to pick it up for Gorkamorka, but I have a feeling it would be positively gigantic compared to the old buggies and trukks (not that the current trukk isn't huge compared to them.) They're pretty comparable to a Battlewagon in size. Compare the Supa Cannons in these two images. (Not mine)  (Mine) 
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Jun 3, 2015 23:43
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PierreTheMime posted:It's a matter that (once again) their rules are worded poorly. "Models in terrain have a 4+ cover save, regardless of obscurity" takes precedence over "Vehicle does not count as obscured..." because obscured is the prerequisite for getting a cover save based on line of sight, whereas the terrain simply grants the cover save to any model even partially inside. It's perfectly fine that the Land Raider is not obscured in its terrain, because a separate rule provides a separate (and better) cover save without it. Well sure... that WOULD be confusingly worded when you ignore the second half of the vehicle piece specifically stating what takes precedence...
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Jun 3, 2015 23:47
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Reynold posted:Some highly opinionated angry nerd strangers might not play against you. Are they considered OP or something? Because I'm all the gently caress for that!
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Jun 4, 2015 00:05
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Sigma-X posted:So is there any reason to not run an army of imperial knights? I like the idea of an army of 4 models. It may prompt someone to poo poo on you with a bigger titan.
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Jun 4, 2015 00:11
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JackMack posted:In future my pre game conversation will be dicussing which buildings I think should be impassable for vehicles. I agree with bulbasaur that the freedom of movement is excessive. This is exactly what you're supposed to do. If y'all aren't specifying that certain terrain is impassable then don't act like it's a problem with the rules. It makes perfect sense that infantry can go through holes in walls or windows or whatever (maybe they're even making a hole in a solid wall.) It also makes sense that a tank can drive through a building, a real tank would have zero problem going through most buildings unless it got hung up or fell in the basement or something. If you think a wall is too thick or a hill too steep to drive over then you need to discuss it with your opponent beforehand. You can do it the other way around too, perhaps you've got some razor wire or something that's not a problem for vehicles but is dangerous or impassable to infantry.
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Jun 4, 2015 00:30
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Sigma-X posted:Are they considered OP or something? They're considered a dick move more than OP, since people who don't expect five towering vehicles have a hard time dealing with them. Just let people know what you're playing first and THEN they'll scream about you being OP when their list tailoring doesn't work.
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