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For the "no true leftist" crowd, I am interested; which American politicians do you support / believe best represent your political platform?
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Jun 3, 2015 22:11
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Also for the unemployment and price issue, it has been covered exhaustively in length for pages and there is a bunch of evidence to support higher than at least a .50 of median wage increase. Hell there is fairly good support in the .60-.70 range. Oh yeah and the full-time OECD wage for the US is around $20 and other median wage comparisons are also full-time wages. Basically, all this poo poo has been talked to death, literally to loving death. It has been beaten again and again into the ground. I lived more or less in a food desert on the south-side of Chicago, I have no loving idea why low wages would help anyone in and around that neighborhood. If anything a higher minimum wage might have helped stabilized a lot of people from what I saw. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 22:15
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Geriatric Pirate posted:The poor in the US face many problems, even if the ridiculous hyperbole on these forums ("literally starving") makes it difficult to take them seriously sometimes. No, I won't define support, you can figure out what I meant quite easily. Same for programs - ideally things that don't punish people for working but still compensate those who can't work like disability. Ah ok, well then let me tell you. 1. Several cities and states are proposing and implementing a $15/h minimum wage, the support is there because it's happening. There are currently no states or cities with UBI, GMI or other living wage policies being implemented or which have popular support by voters. 2. Current welfare programs do not provide for all the needs of the poor. There is no welfare program that provides long term housing, food or health care to any poor person in the US. All of them have time limits, if you haven't bootstrapped yourself within 6 months (it varies between programs) you're out on the street. Sadly, homeless people don't choose to live on the street.. I understand that your metrics for "everything is ok" is probably different than mine. But not "literally starving" isn't proof that everything is just fine, even during the great depression bodies weren't necessarily stacking up on the streets.
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Jun 3, 2015 22:17
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archangelwar posted:For the "no true leftist" crowd, I am interested; which American politicians do you support / believe best represent your political platform? ron paul 
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Jun 3, 2015 22:23
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Geriatric Pirate posted:Is the ghetto you live in in a food desert (does it count as a food desert if your mom brings over some food she cooked for you)? I'm way more intrigued about your life as a poor person than anything else in this thread which is more insulting, poor jokes or mom's basement jokes? not sure which one is supposed to sting more
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Jun 3, 2015 22:23
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Popular Thug Drink posted:which is more insulting, poor jokes or mom's basement jokes? not sure which one is supposed to sting more your momma so fat, when she heard you live in a food desert she came over the next day with a spoon
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Jun 3, 2015 22:48
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your momma's so poor, she works three jobs and still doesn't meet the federal poverty line
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Jun 3, 2015 22:53
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Geriatric Pirate posted:The poor in the US face many problems, even if the ridiculous hyperbole on these forums ("literally starving") makes it difficult to take them seriously sometimes. No, I won't define support, you can figure out what I meant quite easily. Same for programs - ideally things that don't punish people for working but still compensate those who can't work like disability. I personally know people in the US who have "literally starved" by the dictionary definition of starve. You don't have to starve to DEATH to starve, you just have to experience hunger when you have no access to food because you don't have food or money. It's been recharacterized as "food insecurity" because starve evokes too much sympathy or something. Consistent access to shelter is generally the more pressing problem for the American poor in my experience, but starvation is a problem here too.
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Jun 3, 2015 23:06
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JeffersonClay posted:No, you just don't understand that data does not necessarily mean numbers. No, I understand that you concocted a bullshit graph that you have no hope of supporting and are playing semantic games to save face while make fun of you. Lol why in gently caress would you pick this hill to die on
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Jun 3, 2015 23:23
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Geriatric Pirate posted:The poor in the US face many problems, even if the ridiculous hyperbole on these forums ("literally starving") makes it difficult to take them seriously sometimes. No, I won't define support, you can figure out what I meant quite easily. Same for programs - ideally things that don't punish people for working but still compensate those who can't work like disability. Tell me more about life as a poor in the US in the same thread you have accused people of being out of touch.
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Jun 3, 2015 23:25
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I demand... DEMAND!!! an explanation from all you left-wing fucks who keep insisting we raise minimum wage while opposing a raise in targeted social benefits!
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Jun 3, 2015 23:28
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Growing up I would share lunch with a friend because her family could only afford to feed her once a day at dinner and hunger pains during the day would distract her from the classwork. It's good to know that she actually should have been grateful that she got the minimum caloric intake necessary not to die.
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Jun 4, 2015 00:47
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Growing up I would share lunch with a friend because her family could only afford to feed her once a day at dinner and hunger pains during the day would distract her from the classwork. It's good to know that she actually should have been grateful that she got the minimum caloric intake necessary not to die. according to the BLS, this is statistically improbable and you should be ashamed of yourself for lying on the internet
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Jun 4, 2015 00:49
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She didn't have it that bad there are poor posters in Sweden who have it way worse
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Jun 4, 2015 00:57
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Zeitgueist posted:She didn't have it that bad there are poor posters in Sweden who have it way worse Excuse me, that's swamp Sweden.
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Jun 4, 2015 01:00
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Popular Thug Drink posted:according to the BLS, this is statistically improbable and you should be ashamed of yourself for lying on the internet Actually given the number of posters in this thread and the number of people each poster went to school with, it's statically improbable that at least one of us didn't know at least one kid growing up with very low food security. I'm just that one slight statistical longshot that becomes expected with a high enough number of posters.
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Jun 4, 2015 01:07
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Actually given the number of posters in this thread and the number of people each poster went to school with, it's statically improbable that at least one of us didn't know at least one kid growing up with very low food security. I'm just that one slight statistical longshot that becomes expected with a high enough number of posters. Many school districts in poorer areas give kids a meal before lunch because lunch assistance wasn't cutting it and kids were still going hungry but I'm sure our Scandinavian America Expert knew that
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Jun 4, 2015 01:49
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Geriatric Pirate posted:No, 40% is fair, and yes, those people that keep their jobs would get a raise. How do those 30 million perpetually unemployed people who will never hold a job and who receive no support from working friends or family afford food and shelter right now?
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Jun 4, 2015 01:54
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Zeitgueist posted:Many school districts in poorer areas give kids a meal before lunch because lunch assistance wasn't cutting it and kids were still going hungry but I'm sure our Scandinavian America Expert knew that Some school districts also continue to provide meals during summer break despite not having any classes, because a lot of their kids depend on those meals to stay well fed. Farmer Crack-Ass fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jun 4, 2015 |
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Jun 4, 2015 02:01
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Zeitgueist posted:No, I understand that you concocted a bullshit graph that you have no hope of supporting and are playing semantic games to save face while make fun of you. Data is not only numbers. You are a moron. Guess what popular economic work was devised without empirical, numerical data. Das kapital. You. Idiot.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:13
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:Growing up I would share lunch with a friend because her family could only afford to feed her once a day at dinner and hunger pains during the day would distract her from the classwork. It's good to know that she actually should have been grateful that she got the minimum caloric intake necessary not to die. Tell us more about your headmates.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:17
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euphronius posted:Disability and retirement payments are largely paid for by payroll taxes which of course would go way up. Price increases are one of the less contentious impacts. Demand only increases to the extent minimum wage transfers wealth, which is poorly. Precisely because most of the extra wages are paid for in cost increases and because the minimum wage population is only slightly poorer than the general population and because minimum wage cost increases are somewhat skewed towards minimum wage consumers. And in general demand isn't always beneficial anyways. This is why we don't print money and hold interest rates at 0% all the time.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:20
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President Kucinich posted:Tell us more about your headmates. Hungry middles schooler seems like the most banal category of headmates imaginable.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:25
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My headmates include an accountant from Poughkeepsie and the owner of a Korean nail salon, ama.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:27
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JeffersonClay posted:Data is not only numbers. You are a moron. Yes I remember when Marx ms painted a graph and got pissy when people asked him to back it up.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:34
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Increasing demand is probably a good thing if we've used every tool in our box, held rates near zero, and created money to buy hundreds of billions in assets but there still isn't enough demand.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:36
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JeffersonClay posted:Data is not only numbers. You are a moron. Graphs can be used to illustrate data. Graphs in themselves, without numbers tied to them, are only data if they are what you are gathering in your experiment/survey/research. For example, say you are surveying visual expression practices among amateur economists. Instead, I think that what you may be trying to express, if I reinterpret it charitably, is that you were using the graph to describe a model of reality, rather than data about reality. Do you find that acceptable?
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Jun 4, 2015 02:39
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Graphs can be used to illustrate data. Graphs in themselves, without numbers tied to them, are only data if they are what you are gathering in your experiment/survey/research. For example, say you are surveying visual expression practices among amateur economists. We know what he was doing, we're making fun of him for making a graph to give his opinion the weight and heft of an academic statement, but without the rigor.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:41
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Zeitgueist posted:We know what he was doing, we're making fun of him for making a graph to give his opinion the weight and heft of an academic statement, but without the rigor. Or maybe this is an extremely useless, multi-page derail hinging upon someone stumbling in expressing themselves and then getting all defensive about it, which I, for one, would be happy to help deescalate so that there is at least a chance for some meaningful conversation. 
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Jun 4, 2015 02:46
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Or maybe this is an extremely useless, multi-page derail You just described the nature of the entire thread. There is no Golden Age of reasoned discourse to try to return to.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:48
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Zeitgueist posted:We know what he was doing, we're making fun of him for making a graph to give his opinion the weight and heft of an academic statement, but without the rigor. I'm guessing that's the impact you imagine your own graphical sources carry but I think Jefferson, like most people posting a graph with unlabeled axis, had more realistic goals in mind.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:50
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:You just described the nature of the entire thread. There is no Golden Age of reasoned discourse to try to return to. This thread was literally started by an anti-Semite who couldn't stop himself from blaming the bad economy on the Jews, there was at no point in time anything redeemable in this thread.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:50
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Raskolnikov38 posted:This thread was literally started by an anti-Semite who couldn't stop himself from blaming the bad economy on the Jews, there was at no point in time anything redeemable in this thread. In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. (Jer. 31:29 King James Version)
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Jun 4, 2015 02:52
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The Laffer Curve analogy was intentional, not opportunistic. Someone's trying to forward a sketchy, questionable idea and giving it a graph so it seems like more that it is, and then gets snippy when asked to provide any sort of support.
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Jun 4, 2015 02:55
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JeffersonClay posted:Data is not only numbers. You are a moron. welcome, t. piketty
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Jun 4, 2015 06:36
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asdf32 posted:Price increases are one of the less contentious impacts.  Seriously, after all of that work showing how there's a supermajority of studies showing 0% change in unemployment and 0% change in prices, you're still going to waltz in here and drop this steaming pile of poo poo?
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Jun 4, 2015 07:03
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QuarkJets posted:
You see, it's kind of hard to explain. Since in the past we only increased the minimum wage by X amount it means we can only increase the minimum wage in the future by X amount. Why this is is a mystery to everyone, the future is wild and unpredictable.
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Jun 4, 2015 07:29
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QuarkJets posted:
This might be relevant to his interests:  Admittedly lack of correlation does not imply lack of causation, but with all the other evidence... Caros fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Jun 4, 2015 |
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Jun 4, 2015 07:32
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ElCondemn posted:You see, it's kind of hard to explain. Since in the past we only increased the minimum wage by X amount it means we can only increase the minimum wage in the future by X amount. Why this is is a mystery to everyone, the future is wild and unpredictable. Most studies DO show employment effects, almost all show price effects, and no one here had posted anything showing the famous demand effect you keep talking about
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Jun 4, 2015 07:50
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Zeitgueist posted:Many school districts in poorer areas give kids a meal before lunch because lunch assistance wasn't cutting it and kids were still going hungry but I'm sure our Scandinavian America Expert knew that
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Jun 4, 2015 07:56
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