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khy posted:I dunno. What's fun? Also what's an amusing pairing with Ninja? Putting ranger's !Rapid Fire on a Ninja is always fun
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Jun 4, 2015 16:44
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khy posted:So trying to come up with an interesting party comp. Tell me how awful this will be : Butz: Bog standard. You'll eventually drop Two-Handed for something else in world 3 once you get the Chicken Knife - probably !Rapidfire. Faris: For bonus hilarity, give her a magical command, like !Summon. The damage of Ninja Scrolls via !Throw is determined like a magic spell, and the scrolls are actually better than a -aga spell if you're hitting multiple targets. Lenna: Standard as gently caress, but good and reliable. Galuf/Krile: You really don't need !Black if you have access to !Summon, but it's not that suboptimal. If you want some real fun, give them !Throw from Ninja (and the Ninja gets !Summon, like I said) so you have two people with Summoner-level Magic stats throwing 120 Magic Power blasts for 200 gil a pop. Bonus: Summoner can rod-boost Flame/Lightning Scrolls. 
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Jun 4, 2015 16:48
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khy posted:Also, I enjoy the humor in the Android version of V. Secondly, coming off of my first complete run of FFV, that's a pretty solid party comp. As a matter of fact, that's pretty much exactly how my mages were set up. If you have the patience to make the Ninja master Ranger, Rapidfire & Dual-Wield is a nasty combo. I didn't see much use from 2-Handed, but that Mystic Knight looks pretty good either way. So actually, your party isn't awful at all (besides a worrying lack of Mix, but that doesn't take long to get).
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Jun 4, 2015 17:17
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Sordas Volantyr posted:(besides a worrying lack of Mix, but that doesn't take long to get). Bah, !Mix is overrated. 
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Jun 4, 2015 17:25
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Edward_Tohr posted:Bah, !Mix is overrated.  Take it back!
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Jun 4, 2015 17:46
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Pssh. If people can play and win this game with three zerkers then I'm sure I can handle not having some silly mix command. Also, do Ninjas always stay squishy as hell or do they eventually toughen up? khy fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jun 4, 2015 |
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Jun 4, 2015 18:16
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khy posted:Pssh. If people can play and win this game with three zerkers then I'm sure I can handle not having some silly mix command. Stats don't get better from leveling up in this game. Max HP is based on a character's Vitality score and level. Ninja's vitality is only 27 (compared to the 50 of monk) Ninjas can't equip heavy armor. None of this means anything unless you don't put other abilities on your ninja, or your ninja's abilities on others. That's the beauty of this game.
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Jun 4, 2015 19:03
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Kyrosiris posted:Butz: Bog standard. You'll eventually drop Two-Handed for something else in world 3 once you get the Chicken Knife - probably !Rapidfire. Two throwers with !Summon is pretty redundant when there's so many other wonderful combos to try out. I'd do something crazy for Faris, like Equip Axes so she's dualwielding two giant gently caress-off sickles that instantly kill enemies. Redundant and useless as hell, but god drat does it sound badass.
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Jun 4, 2015 19:12
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Edward_Tohr posted:Bah, !Mix is overrated. that's like, not even close to true
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Jun 4, 2015 19:14
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Mega64 posted:I'd do something crazy for Faris, like Equip Axes so she's dualwielding two giant gently caress-off sickles that instantly kill enemies. Redundant and useless as hell, but god drat does it sound badass. On the other hand, grinding 500 AP in Berserker.  Equip Axes is neat, but getting it in World 1 means you're grinding too much, and getting it later means you're not going to use it because axes fall off in usefulness in World 2 and don't really recover fully by endgame (though they at least recover enough to make Berserkers not terrible in Fiestas)
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Jun 4, 2015 19:15
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The difference between a monk's vitality and the lowest, dancer's 14, is only about a 75% boost in HP. The gap between leather and plate defenses closes up a bit later on, especially since no one actually stacks defense (hermes sandals too stronk) and enemy attack power gets much higher in relation to armor defense than early on.
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Jun 4, 2015 19:16
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Succubus Kiss alone nullifies any challenge in the game besides the two undead bosses you can instant kill with Phoenix Down/Odin anyway and the two superbosses, which you'll have to actually use other mixes to humiliate with ease. Best part is the ingredients are incredibly easy to get. KataraniSword posted:On the other hand, grinding 500 AP in Berserker. It's a joke anyway. It's like giving a Monk !Jump, pretty useless compared to so many other combos but who doesn't want to see someone jump into the air and come down just to punch an enemy.
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Jun 4, 2015 19:17
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Mega64 posted:Succubus Kiss alone nullifies any challenge in the game besides the two undead bosses you can instant kill with Phoenix Down/Odin anyway and the two superbosses, which you'll have to actually use other mixes to humiliate with ease. Shinryu can be humiliated with just !White. Or, failing that, a Wonder Wand and !Guard. Or a Mirage Vest. Omega's a little trickier on the timing, but can be shut down completely by !Calm or !Sing. Or reflect, Quick, and a Venom Rod. Anything else can either be insta-killed, shut down, or just plain have their gimmick ignored by equipping the right stuff beforehand. And let's not forget that Death Potion doesn't bypass Death immunity like Level 5 Death does. Yeah, !Mix can trivialize the entire game if you know what you're doing and don't mind farming materials, but so can a lot of other stuff. It's a good skill, don't get me wrong, but I really don't think it's worth all the fellating it gets. 
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Jun 4, 2015 20:22
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Mega64 posted:Two throwers with !Summon is pretty redundant when there's so many other wonderful combos to try out. True, but I feel it's a good first introduction to non-obvious but really good ability interactions, stat inheritance via abilities, etc. Edward_Tohr posted:It's a good skill, don't get me wrong, but I really don't think it's worth all the fellating it gets. When you can solo (as in, use one character) Omega and Shinryu with those other abilities/combinations, let me know. 
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Jun 4, 2015 20:22
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I just beat Atomos on my first try (ever!) but I'm pretty sure I got lucky: I let him take the Dragoon and the Mystic Knight first while the Bard just kept speeding up the Black Mage. By the time the Bard died and was getting sucked in, I was dropping bios like crazy. Now I'm looking it up and I can see that I should have been putting him to sleep, but oh well, this worked! Question: I can't make any of the stat boosting songs go faster by having two people using them, can I? I'm assuming not, but it's hard to tell. If not, can I use two of them at the same time? And is there some sort of modifier with them, i.e. does having someone with higher Magic sing them make the numbers go up faster, or is it just flat?
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Jun 4, 2015 20:23
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OzFactor posted:Question: I can't make any of the stat boosting songs go faster by having two people using them, can I? I'm assuming not, but it's hard to tell. If not, can I use two of them at the same time? And is there some sort of modifier with them, i.e. does having someone with higher Magic sing them make the numbers go up faster, or is it just flat? I don't... think two singers using the same song overlaps, but I'm not positive. I might test that later. Singing is a function of the individual's speed - every time they'd normally get a turn (if they weren't singing), the song takes effect and the stat goes up by 1. That's why the Agility-boosting song is the best one to start with (if you're cranking everything) - with 99 Agility, you get turns really drat fast and thus your Strength/Magic/Level hit 99 way faster than it took for Agility.
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Jun 4, 2015 20:24
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Kyrosiris posted:I don't... think two singers using the same song overlaps, but I'm not positive. I might test that later. This is why I love threads like this, I never really knew how bard songs worked and now I do! :D
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Jun 4, 2015 20:40
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 I'm redy. I'd like to go with a Karnak Truther name but 10% of another berserker is what I'd rather have, for some hosed up reason. What color should I make the background, anyway?
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Jun 4, 2015 21:06
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Edward_Tohr posted:Shinryu can be humiliated with just !White. Or, failing that, a Wonder Wand and !Guard. Or a Mirage Vest. No, !Mix does actually deserve all of the hype it gets. You said it yourself: !Mix can trivialize the entire game. That is literally the best a command in this game can be, so it's hard for it to be overhyped above that. You say other stuff can trivialize the entire game. What are these things? Blue Magic, maybe? But Dark Shock/Level 5 Death won't work on anything whose level doesn't divide down into a multiple of 5. This notably includes Omega and Shinryu, and anyway, how are they to survive those repeated castings through Magic Evasion and a level disadvantage? !Rapid Fire is strong, but it's just doubled damage plus ignoring defense, so call it 220-250% of normal damage. If numbers like that were acceptable to trivialize the game, Berserkers would be more regarded. Sword Magic's good, but is again almost all offense. Drain Sword exists, but there's still nothing to stop statuses. !White is laughable. It can't attack until 85% of the game is over. All it does is not die until then. This is good, but I'd hardly call that trivializing. !Time's in a similar boat. !Summon's definitely up there. Golem and Carbuncle stop a lot of problems, and you're not hurting for offense. Still, it's not trivial: consider the case of Summoner versus Berserked Shinryu: one mistimed Golem casting and you're dead. Not to mention that awful stretch through World 2 where you have to make do with Titan to do any real damage, and it's not enough. Where's this command that sits next to !Mix on the throne of superboss corpses? The perfect ability would be one which wins the battle in a single action while incurring no loss of resources. Nothing does that, but the closer you can get, the better. !Mix, in a single command, gives you invincibility and unresistable killing power. There are other things that trivialize Final Fantasy V. A combination of abilities and equipment, planning and knowledge. None of those are a singular entity. All you need with !Mix are a few dozen buyable items and a few dozen of some common drops, and a nice little chart, and the game is in your hands. No other single element in the game claims that distinction. That's why !Mix is hyped, and it is not overhype by any means.
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Jun 4, 2015 21:11
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Trasson posted:No, !Mix does actually deserve all of the hype it gets. You said it yourself: !Mix can trivialize the entire game. That is literally the best a command in this game can be, so it's hard for it to be overhyped above that. Bardsongs.
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Jun 4, 2015 21:19
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Evil Fluffy posted:Bardsongs. mix does everything they can do better and faster except for romeo's ballad (which doesn't matter because mix is better at applying dead, the best status effect in the game)
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Jun 4, 2015 21:23
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
Go with your f/heart.
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Jun 4, 2015 21:41
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Evil Fluffy posted:Bardsongs. !Sing can't kill, aside from undead. It also doesn't provide any protection to attacks that hit more than Vitality * Level / 128 damage per turn coming from enemies not vulnerable to Stop or Confuse. It's good, but it's not !Mix powerful.
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Jun 4, 2015 21:45
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
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Jun 4, 2015 22:35
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
Either toxic yellow-green or hot pink.
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Jun 4, 2015 23:22
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
Lenna's Hair Pink.
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Jun 4, 2015 23:27
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Whatever color the box of fartz that Abductor drops is. 
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Jun 4, 2015 23:29
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
Red, in honor of your typo.
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Jun 4, 2015 23:44
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Trasson posted:No, !Mix does actually deserve all of the hype it gets. You said it yourself: !Mix can trivialize the entire game. That is literally the best a command in this game can be, so it's hard for it to be overhyped above that. Yeah, and erosion will eventually make that hill flat, but a steam shovel is faster. !Mix just tends to be too slow and cumbersome to be worthwhile if you have other good skills, which are Fungah! posted:better at applying dead, the best status effect in the game) Chemists have to take for-loving-ever to make themselves both strong enough to withstand attacks, and then slowly whittle down the enemy. Most other good commands can exploit and destroy bosses in a tenth of the time it takes chemists to get rolling (and other jobs only use MP, which is a commodity you never have to worry about replenishing). No, one other command may not have all the tools to totally wreck every boss, but a combination of a couple jobs usually can, and without taking 20 turns to do it.
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Jun 5, 2015 02:41
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Mix is super loving effortless though. Like when I got chemist all I had to do was get the three mix drops (and it's super easy to kill those encounters) and breeze my way through bosses. It was the only thing that made my Red Mage worth anything as a character slot.
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Jun 5, 2015 02:45
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How Rude posted:Mix is super loving effortless though. Plus, Chemist's offensive options either A) are HP-based and don't care about mediocre stats or B) have such absurd loving attack power (255 for Succubus' Kiss, 240 defense-ignoring* for Shadow Flare) that even if your magic is low it still hits like a train, and just gets better if you hit level 255. (*technically Flare and its siblings "ignore defense" by dividing it by 32. Most things have under 32 Magic Defense. Omega, notably, will still have 5 MDef in the face of a Shadow Flare unless you use Turtle Soup to reduce it.)
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Jun 5, 2015 02:48
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Schwartzcough posted:Yeah, and erosion will eventually make that hill flat, but a steam shovel is faster. !Mix just tends to be too slow and cumbersome to be worthwhile if you have other good skills, which are Yeah, I'm not arguing that. I'm just arguing that the reason !Mix is so beloved is because it does everything and the kitchen sink in one command. There's nothing else that single handedly trivializes the game like !Mix. There are certainly combinations that do so--a tag team of Blue Magic and Summoning comes really goddamn close--but there's nothing that wins the game against all challenges as easily as !Mix does. Now as for if it's the best way to do things in general? That's playstyle dependent. If you're the type who prefers to win each time, every time, no questions asked, !Mix likely rates higher. Same with other slow-but-durable things like Sword and White Magic. On the other hand, if you're grinding averse and prefer a faster less dominant strategy, then !Mix loses its luster. Why Death Potion when Death Sickles exist, that sort of thing. Personally, I'm not much of a !Mix fan in actual play, as aside from Shinryu/Omega/Neo Exdeath, most of its use is covered by !Drink and a good weapon. There's no denying its power, though.
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Jun 5, 2015 02:53
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This will be Fiesta #5 for me although I was a big dumb moron last year and for the first time, failed to finish even my first run  This year I will not repeat that shame.
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Jun 5, 2015 03:30
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Kyrosiris posted:Whatever color the box of fartz that Abductor drops is. Poo brown. Goin' for it. Mostly because I've already done hot pink and red.
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Jun 5, 2015 03:38
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Why is it that The Run is using the 2nd most voted jobs instead of the top? I know last year they had #1 and #2 slots because two runners used different party setups, but isn't everyone using the same job set this time? Or is he just trying to keep the obvious Thief/Zerk/Geo/Dragoon party from winning? Fenrir fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jun 5, 2015 |
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Jun 5, 2015 03:41
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Fenrir posted:Why is it that The Run is using the 2nd most voted jobs instead of the top? I know last year they had #1 and #2 slots because two runners used different party setups, but isn't everyone using the same job set this time? Those numbers are negative.  (Every year, last year's team gets an initial -1000 vote seeding to promote new stuff. Puwexil won, so his team minus the water job got -1000'd.)
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Jun 5, 2015 03:46
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Ohhhh, I see. Wow, in that case I'm kinda surprised at some of these totals. Especially Monk losing to Black Mage.
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Jun 5, 2015 03:53
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There's quite a few people who want to, for once, give them a not-completely-awful team. Honestly, with three really good runners (puwexil/elmagus/squid), I'm inclined to agree. Last year proved Dragondarch has issues even with good teams (he had problems killing Omega/Shinryu with Blue/White/Chemist in a second run), so...
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Jun 5, 2015 03:58
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Dragondarch's method for killing the Crystals is still nothing short of amazing, though. (From last year's thread) W.T. Fits posted:Okay, for those who haven't been following the streams, I have to put this down to preserve it for prosperity because holy loving poo poo this is terrible.
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Jun 5, 2015 04:02
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Saigyouji posted:Dragondarch's method for killing the Crystals is still nothing short of amazing, though. Wow, I'm barely starting to learn the intricacies of this game's mechanics to prepare for the fiesta (thanks to everyone in the IRC!) and even I'm baffled by that plan.  Why does Bartz need to be in critical condition? Why wear reflect rings???
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Jun 5, 2015 04:13
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