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Psychotic Weasel posted:Well that and the stuff about Vault-Tec and the pre-war Enclave group having planned the Vault system to be some sort of grand social experiment to see how people would behave in isolation and space and poo poo. I don't think that there's any real answer as to why the Great War happened, is there? I don't think the Enclave kicked it off, I was always under the impression that ZAX or its Chinese equivalent fired the bombs to avoid losing at Chess, but I dunno if it's ever set down in stone.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:00
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I think "what sparked the great war" is the kind of question better left unanswered.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:02
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^^^^ fo2 gives you a pretty good idea of how it happened. the world found what was most likely the last oil batch in the ocean between china and alaska, and a big rush to be the first nation to build an oil well began. china was set up to finish first, when an "accident" happened to their well, letting the u.s finish theirs first. china accused the u.s of sabotaging their well(which probably happened!) and invaded alaska. the u.s beat them back, and invaded china, basically curb stomping them because of the oil they got from the well letting them actually use armor and the like. once they got close to taking chinas capital, thats when nukes probably starting flying.MisterBibs posted:^ Eh I've never been a fan of the mastermindy "We intentionally caused the Great War" theories. It's much more human if you have these two big monolithic groups that in trying to create a peace for themselves, wound up causing the largest war/extinction event in history. things were still pretty lovely for pre-war americans at the time, but it was still marginally better than the rest of the world. most cars and the like probably didn't run on fission cells, just some very expensive outliers like the highwayman, and the u.s was basically a fascist state before the end of the world actually happened, what with them corralling dissenters into big mt and the like. also cant forget that they forcefully annexed canada, and the intro movie literally showing soldiers killing tied up pows. Roobanguy fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jun 4, 2015 |
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Jun 4, 2015 22:02
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I think the best part of the hardlight holograms was when they gunned down literally everyone in the casino because the bombs accidentally tripped the "lockdown" switch. Those people could have survived the war and led themselves into being a postwar power, if only the hardlight holograms didn't have super lasers in their eyeballs.
Malpais Legate fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jun 4, 2015 |
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Jun 4, 2015 22:05
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I don't know why you guys are arguing over what caused the war, Mothership Zeta made it clear it was the little aliens 
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Jun 4, 2015 22:05
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The "let's blow up the world and take a piece for ourselves" story was the prevailing theme in the FO Bible when I last read it ages ago. No idea if its still canon or not. Seems a good a reason as any to start a war in the hosed up universe that is Fallout. Oddly enough thats was also a major theme in New Vegas too.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:06
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Shugojin posted:I don't know why you guys are arguing over what caused the war, Mothership Zeta made it clear it was the little aliens Yep. According to Zeta aliens stole the launch codes and (probably) started the war. ~canon~ Anime Schoolgirl posted:The abduction happened while the nukes were already flying so at best they just added a little more glassed landscape to the planet as opposed to starting the MAD chain reaction in the first place It's still dumb as all hell
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Jun 4, 2015 22:12
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Shugojin posted:I don't know why you guys are arguing over what caused the war, Mothership Zeta made it clear it was the little aliens Mortimer posted:Yep. According to Zeta aliens stole the launch codes and (probably) started the war. The Enclave and Shi say that China launched the nukes, and there was nobody else alive back then close enough to the conflict to tell so that's all we have to go by.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:12
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Psychotic Weasel posted:The "let's blow up the world and take a piece for ourselves" story was the prevailing theme in the FO Bible when I last read it ages ago. No idea if its still canon or not. The FO "Bible" has to be taken with a shaker of salt since it devolved into Chris Avellone using it as a opportunity to retcon all the things he didn't like from FO2. And yeah, I consider it unimportant "exactly" why the war happened, the point is it happened because two huge nations couldn't see past their own paranoia, bigotry, and greed to try to come to an understanding with each other and let go of past transgressions and grudges. There's a reason that one quote goes something like "at the start of the day, no one knew who launched first. At the end of the day, no one cared."
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Jun 4, 2015 22:15
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khy posted:Is it bad that my attention was IMMEDIATELY drawn to the vanishing barrels in the lower left corner from 1:08 to 1:12ish? Seems like it's a misconfiguration by the guy that made the sim. It's culling out "unseen" objects incorrectly, I guess? And voice actors aren't, and haven't been the issue. It's not like going for less talent there is somehow going to make things less ugly.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:17
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they should spend their money on guns to shoot themselves with
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Jun 4, 2015 22:19
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AlternateAccount posted:And voice actors aren't, and haven't been the issue. It's not like going for less talent there is somehow going to make things less ugly. It was just an example, since one of the frequently repeated criticisms of the TES games is the small pool of voices. They spend their money/resources on things we don't care about, while the things we DO get ignored and left in the hands of barely-trained monkeys.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:22
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Roobanguy posted:things were still pretty lovely for pre-war americans at the time, but it was still marginally better than the rest of the world. most cars and the like probably didn't run on fission cells, just some very expensive outliers like the highwayman, and the u.s was basically a fascist state before the end of the world actually happened, what with them corralling dissenters into big mt and the like. also cant forget that they forcefully annexed canada, and the intro movie literally showing soldiers killing tied up enemies. That's what I'm saying. The literature tells us how lovely things were getting in the macro scale, but I'm curious if that shittiness is going to be depicted in the micro before-our-hero-is-frozen bits. I think it'd be powerful if that little bit of time (assuming the theories are true) didn't look at all lovely. Shugojin posted:I don't know why you guys are arguing over what caused the war, Mothership Zeta made it clear it was the little aliens I don't know why everyone says that. The bit that 'confirms' such a thing literally has the guy refusing to give out the codes and dying seconds later. Kerning Chameleon posted:The FO "Bible" has to be taken with a shaker of salt since it devolved into Chris Avellone using it as a opportunity to retcon all the things he didn't like from FO2. Yeah, my "I don't really like the Fallout Bible" moment happened when he said "Yeah, every talking Deathclaw, Wannamingo, and other thing died the minute FO2 ended."
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Jun 4, 2015 22:25
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Republican Vampire posted:I don't think that there's any real answer as to why the Great War happened, is there? I don't think the Enclave kicked it off, I was always under the impression that ZAX or its Chinese equivalent fired the bombs to avoid losing at Chess, but I dunno if it's ever set down in stone. The intro of the very first game basically says 'Man, some poo poo went down. Doesn't matter why it did, just that it did, because it would've blown the world the gently caress up either way.' and it was the best choice possible.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:27
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Kerning Chameleon posted:The FO "Bible" has to be taken with a shaker of salt since it devolved into Chris Avellone using it as a opportunity to retcon all the things he didn't like from FO2. Yeah I know they liked to screw around with it and change things after the fact. The GNN report some one mentioed earlier and the whole oil rig and UN blustering you read about in the Sierra Army Depot was later reconed out afterwards. The Bible was a good read though. some interesting ideas in there. To the person who asked earlier. The city over run by feral animals was Denver. They had some great ideas for what was going to be Van Bruen.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:28
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MisterBibs posted:That's what I'm saying. The literature tells us how lovely things were getting in the macro scale, but I'm curious if that shittiness is going to be depicted in the micro before-our-hero-is-frozen bits. I think it'd be powerful if that little bit of time (assuming the theories are true) didn't look at all lovely. it would be pretty disappointing if they try to portray pre-war life as completely idyllic. if they made it off and uncomfortable, like people trying to act like everythings perfect while national guard and the like wandered the streets would be p. cool imo.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:28
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Psychotic Weasel posted:To the person who asked earlier. The city over run by feral animals was Denver. They had some great ideas for what was going to be Van Bruen. Is. Denver is mentioned in that state many times in NV.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:31
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I'm going to buy a PS4 to play this, but I'm going to tell everyone it's to play No Man's Sky.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:34
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Or maybe you'll play the intro as the spouse of the player character and fail to get to the shelter in time. Oh! And maybe you'll die trying to find some way to get your baby into the shelter, like you push him into a soldiers arms over his protests. I mean really, is Modern Warfare gonna do a better job of conveying a nuclear attack than Fallout? I still hope you're an android and all these pre wars memories are there to keep you motivated and focused, like a Blade Runner replicant.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:35
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^ Apples and Oranges re Nuclear Attacks. Modern Warfare would be portraying a more modern/understood nuclear attack. Fallout has big mushroom clouds turning everything into perpetually sandy wastelands. Roobanguy posted:it would be pretty disappointing if they try to portray pre-war life as completely idyllic. Why? Bit of a digression from the topic, but we've already seen Everything Is Horrible dystopias and Everyone Is Too Scared To Admit It's Horrible dystopias. Painting them as more idyllic would be more interesting: Why does almost everyone in the Fallout universe, from Vault Dwellers to Hardened Wastelanders, venerate Pre-War society? Because despite all the historical records painting poo poo as really horrible, it was actually pretty nice. It'd be the most dangerous dystopia: one that makes you want to be in it.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:35
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Jack B Nimble posted:Or maybe you'll play the intro as the spouse of the player character and fail to get to the shelter in time. Oh! And maybe you'll die trying to find some way to get your baby into the shelter, like you push him into a soldiers arms over his protests. I don't know, that's only like 7/10 on the cliche meter. For a AAA title of this magnitude I expect more. Like maybe the main character just proposed marriage that day and she said yes and wow what a bright future these lovebirds have ahead of them. Now that's some 10/10 cliche.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:39
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MisterBibs posted:I don't know why everyone says that. The bit that 'confirms' such a thing literally has the guy refusing to give out the codes and dying seconds later. Because we think it's funny 
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Jun 4, 2015 22:42
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MisterBibs posted:Why? Bit of a digression from the topic, but we've already seen Everything Is Horrible dystopias and Everyone Is Too Scared To Admit It's Horrible dystopias. Painting them as more idyllic would be more interesting: Why does almost everyone in the Fallout universe, from Vault Dwellers to Hardened Wastelanders, venerate Pre-War society? Because despite all the historical records painting poo poo as really horrible, it was actually pretty nice. It'd be the most dangerous dystopia: one that makes you want to be in it. yeah, compared to the wasteland, a fascist state that atleast has running water and power would seem idyllic in comparison. but it was still a fascist state where dissenters and chinese citizens were sent to camps where they were experimented on. where soldiers killing bound pow's were venerated on tv. if they make it totally idyllic and everyone happy that would be a huge departure from what we know. also most wastelanders most likely don't know poo poo about the history of the u.s leading to the great war, what with school systems teaching pre-war history probably isn't a high priority when they could learn more practical things(and that most history books still around were probably written by a fascist state). vaulters were probably educated believing everything was peachy keen in the good 'ol u.s of a, what with the education system being made by vault-tec.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:44
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Roobanguy posted:if they make it totally idyllic and everyone happy that would be a huge departure from what we know. My point is that it wouldn't be a departure at all. All the hippies are being schelpped to big MT, you see on the news that Our Boys just annexed a country that was hiding its oil from us, and we're using the last of the oil to crush the Godless Reds in China. If worse comes to worse, Vault-Tec has a Vault for everyone. Sure, in the macro things are lovely and about to get a lot worse, but from your lawn chair poo poo seems really good.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:51
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I have not read all 23 pages of this thread. Have we talked about how awesome it would be if the dog was the character who was cryogenically frozen from before the bombs? The dog is the one having the flashbacks? I think that'd be pretty awesome.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:54
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Snak posted:I have not read all 23 pages of this thread. Have we talked about how awesome it would be if the dog was the character who was cryogenically frozen from before the bombs? The dog is the one having the flashbacks? I think that'd be pretty awesome. This is Todd Howard and I am making this cannon. The dog will be voiced by a real dog and must be male however.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:55
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I just think it'd be kind of funny if the only living being who remember what life was like before wasteland was a dog. Dogs are intelligent, compassionate, social animals, so I don't mean it just as a dumb joke. The dog would get that everything is hosed and the humans really need some help. But at the same time, the dog can't like, tell us where society went wrong. edit: V Especially the lies.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:58
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khy posted:Which lies exactly should I not believe in All of them. Even the lies.
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Jun 4, 2015 22:58
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Lastgirl posted:All of them. Even the lies. You need to go replay Fallout 3
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Jun 4, 2015 23:07
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I only played the first two DLC of Fallout 3 and I can scarcely remember anything positive about them. Operation Anchorage stripped all the role-playing elements out of the game in favour of bog-standard shooting which isn't really the appeal of the game. The Pitt was a dreary, linear chore and the only choice I was allowed to make was whether or not to kidnap a baby. I chose to spare the child and in doing so I realised I had accomplished absolutely nothing nor had I effected any change on the landscape. Can someone please summarise the next three DLC expansions? I'm not going to play them.
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Jun 4, 2015 23:10
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Man it'll be hella sick if the Fallout set in my stomping ground drops on my bday.
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Jun 4, 2015 23:19
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You might say it would be neato.
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Jun 4, 2015 23:26
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Mothership Zeta sucks, Broken Steel has a pretty cool final base level but also adds really lovely monsters to the overworld and awkwardly retcons the ending, and Point Lookout is pretty decent aside from the overpowered hillbillies. I even somewhat enjoyed the dumb pulpy story of it.
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Jun 4, 2015 23:26
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Chomp8645 posted:This is Todd Howard and I am making this cannon. The dog will be voiced by Troy Baker who just says "Bark bark bark" enthusiastically to everything. Also, I'm pretty sure that no matter how bad pre-war society was, it would be pretty easy to wish for that existence again when you're drinking radiation pee water out of a toilet to survive while fending off murder-Ghouls and Raiders.
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Jun 4, 2015 23:37
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Snak posted:I just think it'd be kind of funny if the only living being who remember what life was like before wasteland was a dog. Dogs are intelligent, compassionate, social animals, so I don't mean it just as a dumb joke. The dog would get that everything is hosed and the humans really need some help. But at the same time, the dog can't like, tell us where society went wrong. There are ghouls (who apparently age very slowly) who lived before the War. Dean Domino from the Dead Money DLC or Harold from F1&2, for example.
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Jun 5, 2015 00:02
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Harold from Fallout 1, 2 and three.
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Jun 5, 2015 00:07
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I played Fallout 3 first, so I assumed after I went back and played 1+2 I would understand the Harold references in 3. I still don't. What an awkward mess.
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Jun 5, 2015 00:58
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Why did he even go to DC in the first place?
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Jun 5, 2015 01:03
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Who knows; I think the short answer is Bethesda tried too hard to link their game to the old ones. But that's not the worst thing about fallout's setting/premise. The weirdest thing about Fallout to me is that everything looks like the bombs JUST fell. I mean rubble in the streets, junk on the shelves, it's nuts. It's been centuries! I think it's a case of Fallout 1 and 2 not having any graphical detail to really worry about it, but then 3 and new vegas are just weird. Supermarkets that still look like they've got original goods in them? And in Goodsprings, old motorcycles and cars just hanging about the place for generations and generations?
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Jun 5, 2015 01:15
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Fintilgin posted:There are ghouls (who apparently age very slowly) who lived before the War. Dean Domino from the Dead Money DLC or Harold from F1&2, for example. Ghouls don't age at all, but they can (and often do) go Feral and lose their minds. In fact, originally it was only the bombs that dropped in 2077 that caused people to become ghoul-ified so thats another thing Fallout 3 hosed up!
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Jun 5, 2015 01:18
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