|
I think it's interesting we haven't seen Doom actually DO anything with his godlike powers.
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 14:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 16:43 |
|
|
Nevvy Z posted:I think it's interesting we haven't seen Doom actually DO anything with his godlike powers. When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 14:46
|
|
|
Nevvy Z posted:I think it's interesting we haven't seen Doom actually DO anything with his godlike powers.  I don't know if that falls under godlike powers or not.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 14:51
|
|
|
I think that even if that isn't the original Sue, Valaria, etc with Doom there's still a good chance they survived. These are characters that Hickman has previously had surviving the end of a universe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 15:04
|
|
|
redbackground posted:Well, we did see him manipulating the physical walls around him as he started his walk with Strange: It may be an artistic choice and not mean anything, but Doom deconstructing the wall to geometric shapes is not unlike what Franklin is shown to be doing while he chills with Galactus.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 15:09
|
|
|
Nevvy Z posted:I think it's interesting we haven't seen Doom actually DO anything with his godlike powers. Well, the only real evidence of him being a capital "G" God is the testimony of Battleworld's inhabitants. You know, the folks who have had their memories manipulated.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 16:33
|
|
|
Ok. So a lot of people seem to be getting confused by a lot of fairly simple things. I thought I’d have a go at trying to put a few basic answers to things that keep coming up. Secret wars seems to be pretty confusing and we don’t know a lot about how it all actually runs, but with a bit of basic reading comprehension it’s fairly easy to work out what’s going on in most places. And it’s getting on my nerves seeing people asking the same questions again and again. So maybe this will help. It’s worth bearing in mind that not everything have been explained yet. There are quite a few mysteries left to solve, but here’s what I can see so far. There are many instances of many characters. This seems to have no relation to weather a character was on the raft or not. Obvious examples include Cyclops, who has been spotted in X-Men 92, Inferno, and the life raft; The Thors; Wolverine (Old Many Logan, X-92, Years of Future Past), Spiderman (Renew Your Vows, Ultimate End, Spider Island) and probably a bunch of others. So just because a character does one thing in one book, there is no guarantee that that has any relation to a similar instance of that character in another. 616 vs Ultimate Universe:Ultimate End seems to be causing a lot of confusion. Probably because it was billed as being about the end of the Ultimate U, so most people assumed it was taking place there, prior to the final incursion. This is not the case. It is a zone of the battleworld where parts of the 616 and parts of the Ultimate Universe co exist. There is some kind of rift between the two though it’s still uncertain how this works. The map of the beginning implies they are sort of on top of each other, though the existence of the wormhole also implies some kind of way of travelling between them. As this is actually taking place on battleworld, then we can assume that these characters, including Miles and Spidey are NOT the same versions that we know. These are not the same characters who were on the arc. This also means that the instances of 616\ Ultimate U are not really our 616\UU. They are different, and as such characters that were dead before are now alive or have different memories, which is how we get a still alive Tony Stark, instead of one who died during the incursion. Either way, there is more to be discovered here. As far as everyone on Battleworld is concerned, Battleworld has always been the status quo. The residents remember nothing else, although they have in fact only been there for 8 years, as established in Secret Wars #3. None of the characters remember the incursions. Not sure what this means for how Doom created the world. It’s been hinted at that the world was created from the incursion points of various universes, but it’s unlikely that simple, as some of the zones are huge, and others tiny, plus the Ultimate universe zone does not match up with the pre-incursion state of the UU. My theory is that the zones are somehow made in the ‘spirit of’ the universes that they were made out of, which gives us a bit of leeway as to exactly how well they stick to the previous incarnations as we know them. It isnt exactly known how much influence Doom had over the exact details. The Fantastic Four: As far as I can tell, these guys haven’t turned up yet (Maybe a Thing in one of the books I missed) as regular Battleworld members,. This doesn’t mean they won't, but given Doom’s relationship with them, there is likely to be some kind of reason. Doom is married to a Sue Storm, but we don#t know exactly if this is the same Sue that fell off the liferaft (likewise for Val and Franklin). Probably not but who knows. Johnny is the sun. No other Reeds have turned up and this is likely significant (The argument that ‘all the alternate Reeds died in Hickmans F run’ doesn't work, because everybody died before the incursions anyway, save for those on the rafts) Those are the main ones that seem to be flummoxing people. Personally, I want to know how the economy of this weird patchwork planet works. Anyway, that’s my take on what’s happening. It’s possible I’m wrong about some of these things but they seem pretty solid to me. If i’ve missed something obvious or theres more to add, please let me know!
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
The Thing showed up in one of the tie-ins this issue, but I won't spoil it because it was a last page reveal. I'm also thinking that, as has been said before, the Shield itself is some form of Ben Grimm.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 17:31
|
|
|
Codependent Poster posted:I'm also thinking that, as has been said before, the Shield itself is some form of Ben Grimm. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 17:32
|
|
|
redbackground posted:I'm on-board with this too: i like this theory
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 17:35
|
|
|
krakagar posted:There is some kind of rift between the two though it’s still uncertain how this works. The map of the beginning implies they are sort of on top of each other, though the existence of the wormhole also implies some kind of way of travelling between them. As this is actually taking place on battleworld, then we can assume that these characters, including Miles and Spidey are NOT the same versions that we know. These are not the same characters who were on the arc. This was the plot of Spider-Men and was used again in Cataclysm. It's simply a tear between worlds and its being used as an explanation of how 616 and 1610 are both in "Manhattan" while other realities have their own section of the battleworld. The tear was never really explained but Mysterio had been using it for years without any consequence so it makes sense that when forming Battleworld it ends up being part of the creation when Doom brings back what he could from both universes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 17:37
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:Well, the only real evidence of him being a capital "G" God is the testimony of Battleworld's inhabitants. In the panel above, Strange, who hasn't had his memory manipulated, refers to Doom being omnipotent.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 17:45
|
|
|
krakagar posted:i like this theory
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 17:46
|
|
|
In a revoltin' development, it turns out that the Shield was Grimm's Aunt Petunia all along!
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 17:56
|
|
|
Happy Noodle Boy posted:This was the plot of Spider-Men and was used again in Cataclysm. It's simply a tear between worlds and its being used as an explanation of how 616 and 1610 are both in "Manhattan" while other realities have their own section of the battleworld. The tear was never really explained but Mysterio had been using it for years without any consequence so it makes sense that when forming Battleworld it ends up being part of the creation when Doom brings back what he could from both universes. Yeah, I know where it comes from, just not sure how it functions as part of Battleworld. The official Battleworld map had Manhattan split in to 616/UU, but the map at the beginnign of teh issue shows both universes existing on the same Manhattan island. So I'm assuming that the portal just allows physical transport between the two zones, but less clear as to the exact geography and whether this is an effect of the portal or Battleworld itself.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 17:57
|
|
|
redbackground posted:This interview I just found with Gillen all but confirms it. Excellent.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 17:58
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:In the panel above, Strange, who hasn't had his memory manipulated, refers to Doom being omnipotent. I think he is playing it safe and trying to be mostly hands off. thats why so many of these universes are basically what they were before he got involved. He's been a god before and he wasn't super good at it then, he's learned and is being smarter about it now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 18:19
|
|
|
redbackground posted:This interview I just found with Gillen all but confirms it. Hrmph I thought Siege was going to be the Osborn Dark Avengers book.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 19:02
|
|
|
Nevvy Z posted:I think he is playing it safe and trying to be mostly hands off. thats why so many of these universes are basically what they were before he got involved. Also it would kind of defeat the conceit of many of the titles (mostly the X-Men spin-off realities) if Doom just fixed the piece of Limbo leaking into that one Manhattan, or the virus in Genosha that could wipe out every single mutant on Battleworld, or the impoverished of that one medieval place, or the whole Greenland/Dystopia mess, or all that poo poo south of the Shield. I'm sure Hickman will bust out some reason as to why Doom left Battleworld a lovely place to live, but for the time being I'm reminding myself it's just an event comic, I should really just relax 
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 23:33
|
|
|
Conflicts keeps people from worrying about Doom. Plus he has Thors and the Shield so he keeps some of the peace there is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 23:42
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:In the panel above, Strange, who hasn't had his memory manipulated, refers to Doom being omnipotent. Or perhaps Strange only thinks his memory hasn't been manipulated. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 23:57
|
|
|
Wasn't it estabshed in Emperor Doom, that absolute control bored Doom, and that was at least part of the reason he eventually lost? Aside from the absolute lack of freewill, Emperor Doom's world was perfect, it would make sense that Doom would create a world with internal and external strife, if only to give himself something to do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 00:53
|
|
|
Four Score posted:Also it would kind of defeat the conceit of many of the titles (mostly the X-Men spin-off realities) if Doom just fixed the piece of Limbo leaking into that one Manhattan, or the virus in Genosha that could wipe out every single mutant on Battleworld, or the impoverished of that one medieval place, or the whole Greenland/Dystopia mess, or all that poo poo south of the Shield. I'm sure Hickman will bust out some reason as to why Doom left Battleworld a lovely place to live, but for the time being I'm reminding myself it's just an event comic, I should really just relax They ask him directly about the virus in the X-Men one. He doesn't care because Doom is racist.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 00:58
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:They ask him directly about the virus in the X-Men one. He doesn't care because Doom is racist. He no longer wants to bang Storm?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 01:00
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:He no longer wants to bang Storm? Sue's right there, bro.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 01:11
|
|
|
Happy Noodle Boy posted:Not to mention the Beyonders could still be out there and maybe that's why we can't go past a single world and restart at least one universe. Based on the cover of the first July issue of SW we're getting, the Beyonders are definitely still around.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 01:32
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:He no longer wants to bang Storm? Claremont's not writing anymore, so no.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 02:32
|
|
|
I've been about a month behind just due to general craziness. Got some books today and I'm sure my thoughts will echo the thread as a whole: Secret Wars #3 - Great book, this storyline is everything Convergence wanted to be. So pumped for issue #4 and beyond A-Force #1 - Any book with America Chavez is great. I hope we get to see her on the wall kicking rear end. A-Force has an interesting premise and I'm really excited to see it out Planet Hulk #1 - Holy gently caress this was awesome and I well continue reading this one and be sad when its over Secret Wars 2099 #1 - Eh it was ok, I probably won't continue with this one though due to my wife wanting me to pare down my pulllist Battleworld #1 and #2 - Anthology books are cool, but again probably wont' continue with this one for above reasons Old Man Logan #1 - Not really sure where this book is going, I'll give #2 a read I have Infinity Gauntlet #1 and Years of Future Past #1 to read as well, but I'm enjoying this cross over so much. Sorry to interrupt the thread with my month old reactions! EDIT: Infinity Gauntlet #1 was weird. I'll give 2 a shot but it was totally different from what I expected Years of Future Past #1 was exactly what I expected and I can't wait to keep reading it. I realized that I missed Attilian Rising, how is that book? SalTheBard fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Jun 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 03:35
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:They ask him directly about the virus in the X-Men one. He doesn't care because Doom is racist. Yeah that is X-Tinction Agenda, and I chalked it up to lazy writing. I didn't think Doom was well-known for being an anti-mutant bigot, just a self-absorbed despot. All beings are Doom's lessers 
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 08:36
|
|
|
Four Score posted:Yeah that is X-Tinction Agenda, and I chalked it up to lazy writing. I didn't think Doom was well-known for being an anti-mutant bigot, just a self-absorbed despot. All beings are Doom's lessers When it doubt assume a doombot
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 09:21
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:When it doubt assume a doombot Or  Got to say with the exception of the O Face, I'm just in love with art. I legit bought the first issue in print today. Trying to get issue 2....was not as easy. Anecdotal, but I had to go to two shops to find an issue one. One place (large) store was sold out of both and waiting for second printings, other was sold out of two and only had Doom/Sue for 3 left (and which I kind of wish I got...but 12.99* ). It seems to be selling very (at least according to the two owners I talked too. *I'd buy a poster of it in a heartbeat as I just want the art. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jun 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 23:37
|
|
|
For all those Retcon Doombot scenes, I'd like one of a Doombot accusing the real Dr. Doom of something egregious and terrible and then trying to self destruct him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 00:58
|
|
|
TNG posted:For all those Retcon Doombot scenes, I'd like one of a Doombot accusing the real Dr. Doom of something egregious and terrible and then trying to self destruct him. I'm be kind of shocked if that hadn't happened at some point
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 01:54
|
|
|
Jason Aaron's Incredible Hulk had some hilarious bits where the Doombots were trying to cover for Doom being gone to be a god in another dimension.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 04:41
|
|
|
Four Score posted:Also it would kind of defeat the conceit of many of the titles (mostly the X-Men spin-off realities) if Doom just fixed the piece of Limbo leaking into that one Manhattan, or the virus in Genosha that could wipe out every single mutant on Battleworld, or the impoverished of that one medieval place, or the whole Greenland/Dystopia mess, or all that poo poo south of the Shield. I'm sure Hickman will bust out some reason as to why Doom left Battleworld a lovely place to live, but for the time being I'm reminding myself it's just an event comic, I should really just relax Doom has to keep all these various contradictions, conflicts and destructive forces around to ensure the continual operation of Battleworld. APART FROM THE RED SKULL! DOOM USED HIS GODLIKE POWERS TO OBLITERATE HIM. BECAUSE gently caress THAT GUY!
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 11:25
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:APART FROM THE I bet he's even more angry because Doom approached Reed and Strange after the Latveria incursion and they told him to gently caress off.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 12:56
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:
Honestly, I was hoping it was Odin which is why Doom is using Yggdrasil as his throne and why the police are all Thors. Battleworld is Asgard
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 16:37
|
|
|
"That's not Odin!" "That's Odin!" "That's not Odin!" "That's Odin!" "Son of a bitch!" It was a pretty good twist. Kept thinking finding Odin might of had some larger ramifications for Battleworld.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 17:07
|
|
|
Well it looks like I'll have to wait a while to get number 2 in print. It seems out of the three places I tried, none had regular variant issue 2 and only had ones that were $9.99 and up. So since I didn't want to spend $14.95 on acceptable art...I figure I'll wait to the second printing. I have to imagine sales have been very good for Marvel so far.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 20:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 16:43 |
|
|
Die Laughing posted:"That's not Odin!" "That's Odin!" "That's not Odin!" "That's Odin!" "Son of a bitch!" "Well well, you." "Me."
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:37
|
|