Board Game Thread 4e: The Call of Catan

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Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; "LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Electric Hobo posted:

I remember people liking Eminent Domain. I'm considering buying it, so could someone tell me what's so great about it?

It's one of the most interesting "and something" deckbuilders. It's a tableau builder grafted onto a deckbuilder where "buying" multiple copies of the same card is awesome and there's two currencies that actually work well.

There's also Technologies which are awesome (mostly) unique cards that you can acquire. And there's little plastic spaceships.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 15:13

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 03:19

fozzy fosbourne: Apr 21, 2010

Electric Hobo posted:

I remember people liking Eminent Domain. I'm considering buying it, so could someone tell me what's so great about it?

Broken Loose's post that got me to try it out:

quote:

quote:
What's your 2nd favorite deck builder?

Eminent Domain + Escalation. Escalation is absolutely required, because base EmiDo has little-to-no game-to-game variation and ends up being largely solvable in a handful of plays.

Eminent Domain is the only deckbuilder which took the basic concept of "use a deck while making it" and actually did something unique with it. Role-taking is a perfect use of multiple resources in such a game, and the emergent way that your deck gradually grows to fit your playstyle is so elegant I could write an essay on it. Escalation adds new technologies which actively provide alternate victory paths, Scenario cards which give players dramatically different starting positions in ways starting worlds couldn't even have dreamed, the new fleet mechanics give military players multiple tech trees, and all of this being available earlier in the game (thanks to Scenarios) means that you can actually have proactive and then reactive strategies you can take over a game. Holy poo poo Escalation is so goddamn good; it's like it was designed by people specifically reading my posts criticizing the base game.

It's kind of shocking how few games actually tried something genuinely new, and how many are just Dominion/Thunderstone*/Ascension** with a different backstory.

*Which was just a lovely clone of Dominion.
**Which was just a shittier clone of Thunderstone.

quote:

Countblanc posted:
unrelated, what is eminent domain

It's like if Dominion and Glory to Rome had a baby that kind of looks like Race for the Galaxy and they're going to Maury to get a DNA test.

The combination of deckbuilding and role following is really neat for a few subtle reasons. One of them is that it introduces more complex hand management to the deckbuilding mechanic. In most deckbuilders, for the most part vomit your hand out on the board every turn, and there is not too much in the way of actually playing your hand tactically, much less using it to react to an opponent's future move. With the role following mechanic plus the ability to selectively discard cards at the end of the round and fill back up to your hand size, there is now much more strategy involved in building a hand to react to your opponents' turns.

For example, in my turn, if I had 2 Survery cards (in addition to 3 other cards), I can
- play one of them as an action (draw 2 cards).
- Select Survey as my role, which involves:
-- Optionally playing any other Survey cards left in my hand to boost that role (which lets me look at X cards in the planet deck and pick my ideal, where X is 1 + boost (n))
-- Allows opponents also participate in a Survey if they have Survey cards in their hands, but with a starting X-1 value since they are not the leader
-- Gains a Survey card to my deck after this resolves
- At my discard, I can choose to discard these Survey cards if I didn't play them and draw new cards to replace them, or I can hang onto them.
- If I still have the Survey cards and any of my opponents choose the Survey role, I can play them for "free" during their turn and look at the planet deck but with an X-1 starting number of cards to search.
- If I choose not to follow any of the Survey roles called, I can "dissent" and draw a card to my hand to either play during another player's role or during my next turn

And that's just the 2 survey cards in this theoretical hand, which also had 3 other cards which could all be involved in this decision process.

So with any given cards, you can decide to play them as an action, use them in your role, keep them in anticipation of an opponent's role and/or your next turn, or discard them for new cards at the end of your turn. This is kind of fundamental with the role following mechanic, but introducing deck building let's you further craft how powerful your options will be each turn.

It has the deckbuilding goodness of trying to optimize future hands combined with a more complicated hand manipulation strategy as you try to get the most out of your opponent's decisions. The anticipation of what your opponent will play sort of reminds me of playing a blue deck with counters or playing removal in Magic, but is less about countering and more about benefitting personally from predicting your opponent's choice.

Then, add some tableau building on top of it to throw some more factors into the decision making each turn to shape your future hands.

The expansion also introduces a really cool asymmetric start mechanic that's sort of like if each play in Dominion got to start with a different 5 cost kingdom card in their deck. It isn't super balanced and probably needs some drafting or something, but it's great because it forces you out of your comfort zone. Intimidated by trying to invest heavily in a produce/trade engine? Well now you might have the nudge you need because you started with a card and planet that really benefits the strategy.

It's a bit rough around the edges and I found myself constantly looking up rules clarifications from the designer on BGG; feels like an early career design. But it's pretty sweet

Edit: the only place I'm aware of that still has the expansion in stock https://www.gamesurplus.com/product_info.php?products_id=2850

fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jun 5, 2015

# ? Jun 5, 2015 15:19

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Harvey Mantaco posted:

Is it a bit easier? I like Mage Knight but my partner is new to these kinds of games and when trying to explain it to her I think her response was ""My brain is vomiting." Is it (PF) a satisfying enough step-down in complexity from games like that while still being fun?

Honestly, it isn't easier to play, just less satisfying. Many of the cards are loaded with text and triggered effects and all kinds of stuff to keep track of, but in the end the game has as much depth as Zombie Dice. Mage Knight is complex for a reason, Pathfinder cards basically just give you a complicated reason to roll D&D dice.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 15:22

bobvonunheil: Mar 18, 2007; Board games and tea

Rutibex posted:

Honestly, it isn't easier to play, just less satisfying. Many of the cards are loaded with text and triggered effects and all kinds of stuff to keep track of, but in the end the game has as much depth as Zombie Dice. Mage Knight is complex for a reason, Pathfinder cards basically just give you a complicated reason to roll D&D dice.

Welp, there's another reason never to play Pathfinder Adventure Card Game!

# ? Jun 5, 2015 15:44

ETB: Nov 8, 2009; Yeah, I'm that guy.

House Louse posted:

Sounds interesting, how is it with three?

I've played with 4, 5, and 6, and it seems to drag a little with more. I think the optimal number is closer to 3 or 4.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 15:47

Yas: Apr 7, 2009

I like Eminent Domain but dislike how the technology cards are presented. Piles of different cards people needed to sift through whenever they wanted to buy one is inelegant and sucks to teach. As mentioned, buy the expansion and play with the unique starts.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 15:49

Fungah!: Apr 30, 2011

Some Numbers posted:

Is the TragLooper expansion confirmed for a GenCon release? Do we know when it'll hit regular circulation?

afaik it's definitely confirmed for gencon, not sure when it'll make it to everyone else. super pumped

# ? Jun 5, 2015 15:55

signalnoise: Mar 7, 2008; i was told my old av was distracting

Hey Eminent Domain fans

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/michaelmindes/eminent-domain-battlecruisers-and-exotica

# ? Jun 5, 2015 15:55

Fungah!: Apr 30, 2011

and eminent domain is very solid, but you essentially need the expansion to play it. i pretty much look at the base game as proof of concept and the expansion as the actual game, the base mechanics are solid but the expansion really makes them shine. super pumped for the new expansion

# ? Jun 5, 2015 15:58

EvilChameleon: Nov 20, 2003; In my infinite money,
the jimmies rustle softly.

House Louse posted:

Sounds interesting, how is it with three?

I've played it with all player counts except two, and I know people who have played it at two and liked it. It scales pretty well, though the strategy for each number of players is obviously different. I don't /love/ it at 5-6, it feels a bit random and short compared to other player counts. I think they could do with adding a few more cards to play 5-6 properly but that's just me.

signalnoise posted:

Hey Eminent Domain fans

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/michaelmindes/eminent-domain-battlecruisers-and-exotica

Interesting. 40bux is a good price I think, obviously I could save by getting it from my local store, but not a huge amount, and there are some promo cards? Might get behind this once I see how it seems to shake out. But Feb 2016?

# ? Jun 5, 2015 16:23

Poopy Palpy: Jun 10, 2000; Im da fwiggin Poopy Palpy XD

Yas posted:

I like Eminent Domain but dislike how the technology cards are presented. Piles of different cards people needed to sift through whenever they wanted to buy one is inelegant and sucks to teach. As mentioned, buy the expansion and play with the unique starts.

It's not perfect, but rather than go to the effort of making my own perfect guides, I just printed these (front and back, two pages per side)

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/103151/full-tech-tree-reference-ed-and-ede-4-page-version

# ? Jun 5, 2015 16:50

Broken Loose: Dec 25, 2002; PROGRAM
A > - - - LR > > - - LL > - - -

Whalley posted:

I know that it's stupid as hell to say "why didn't anybody tell me it was this fun" because it's loving Dominion, it's one of the most successful 'good' board games around, and people talk about it all the goddamn time. But why didn't anybody tell me Dominion was this fun?

Generally, it's never necessary to explain that good games are often more fun than bad games.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 17:14

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

Anywhere I can buy Eminent Domain: Escalation at a decent price without crazy shipping?

# ? Jun 5, 2015 18:06

Foehammer: Nov 8, 2005; We are invincible.

signalnoise posted:

Hey Eminent Domain fans

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/michaelmindes/eminent-domain-battlecruisers-and-exotica

Looks like you'll also be able to bundle in the original title & expansion as add-ons, once they sort our their pricing.

quote:

We will be launching an update w/ Add On's. Escalation will be part of that, it's currently out of print but will be reprinted in tandem w/ Exotica so that they are both available in retail at the same time.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 18:07

Broken Loose: Dec 25, 2002; PROGRAM
A > - - - LR > > - - LL > - - -

Bottom Liner posted:

Anywhere I can buy Eminent Domain: Escalation at a decent price without crazy shipping?

Have you played it yet? Do you want to play it? I don't have much on my schedule this weekend.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 18:12

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

Foehammer posted:

Looks like you'll also be able to bundle in the original title & expansion as add-ons, once they sort our their pricing.

That's great news, I'm going to pick up the Exotica/Escalation bundle whenever it's put up.

Broken Loose posted:

Have you played it yet? Do you want to play it? I don't have much on my schedule this weekend.

Just checking out the Orlando Toy & Comic Convention tomorrow, email me your number or something defeldus@gmail

# ? Jun 5, 2015 18:24

Morpheus: Apr 18, 2008; My favourite little monsters

I'm kind of curious, why has everyone been talking about Eminent Domain lately? I remember playing it a couple years ago and having a decent amount of fun with it, but suddenly it's been talked about in this thread a bunch lately.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 18:40

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

It was on sale for $20 via Amazon a week or two ago, new kickstarter expansion, etc. It's also a solid game.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 18:42

Broken Loose: Dec 25, 2002; PROGRAM
A > - - - LR > > - - LL > - - -

Bottom Liner posted:

Just checking out the Orlando Toy & Comic Convention tomorrow, email me your number or something defeldus@gmail

why don't you have platinum? get platinum.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 18:49

Fungah!: Apr 30, 2011

Morpheus posted:

I'm kind of curious, why has everyone been talking about Eminent Domain lately? I remember playing it a couple years ago and having a decent amount of fun with it, but suddenly it's been talked about in this thread a bunch lately.

kickstarter for the second expansion probably

# ? Jun 5, 2015 19:04

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Broken Loose posted:

why don't you have platinum? get platinum.

That's half a copy of Eminent Domain.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 19:09

fozzy fosbourne: Apr 21, 2010

Fungah! posted:

kickstarter for the second expansion probably

Also Escalation came out in 2014 and as you mentioned, the expansion makes the game

# ? Jun 5, 2015 19:11

Broken Loose: Dec 25, 2002; PROGRAM
A > - - - LR > > - - LL > - - -

Jedit posted:

That's half a copy of Eminent Domain.

man he could just play my copy if he had platinum

# ? Jun 5, 2015 19:23

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

Given the scarcity of it and the Feb reprint time frame looks like that might be the best option :v:

# ? Jun 5, 2015 19:24

fozzy fosbourne: Apr 21, 2010

Dude, it's $29 total after shipping from Games Surplus! I got it for $17 from Cardhaus but only got free shipping because i put it in a $125 order. So it's not that big a rip off, just don't buy another lovely game this year and you can afford this shipping gouging 5-10 times over!

playing board games has made me good at economics problems like this

# ? Jun 5, 2015 19:25

Foehammer: Nov 8, 2005; We are invincible.

Why pay $15 for shipping when you could buy another $85 worth of games and get free shipping :v:

# ? Jun 5, 2015 19:28

fozzy fosbourne: Apr 21, 2010

Anyone played Dungeon of Mandom/Welcome to the Dungeon? Seems like the latest hyped Japanese microgame. I'm interested in that and Flip City/Design Town (to be clear that's a Taiwanese microgame iirc). Anyways su&sd has a review hyping it here: http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/videos/v/review-welcome-dungeon/

I play Love Letter from time to time but only out of.. utility I guess, to warm people up to other games, but I quite like Skull. So if this game has elements of both, I'm interested.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 20:50

sonatinas: Apr 15, 2003; Seattle Karate Vs. L.A. Karate

fozzy fosbourne posted:

Anyone played Dungeon of Mandom/Welcome to the Dungeon? Seems like the latest hyped Japanese microgame. I'm interested in that and Flip City/Design Town (to be clear that's a Taiwanese microgame iirc). Anyways su&sd has a review hyping it here: http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/videos/v/review-welcome-dungeon/

I play Love Letter from time to time but only out of.. utility I guess, to warm people up to other games, but I quite like Skull. So if this game has elements of both, I'm interested.

Good luck finding it by next week once that video starts getting more views.

Here is some Mandom for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEqA84R0lYU

# ? Jun 5, 2015 20:55

fozzy fosbourne: Apr 21, 2010

sonatinas posted:

Good luck finding it by next week once that video starts getting more views.

Heh umm I already padded out an order with it a while back :unsmith:

# ? Jun 5, 2015 20:56

gutterdaughter: Oct 21, 2010; keep yr head up, problem girl

fozzy fosbourne posted:

Anyone played Dungeon of Mandom/Welcome to the Dungeon? Seems like the latest hyped Japanese microgame.

Literally picked it up over lunch after watching the review. Partly because I'm screwing around with a fantasy game design that uses semi-deterministic combat, and I wanted to see how the idea feels with WttD's gear-check system.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:01

Fungah!: Apr 30, 2011

mind posting impressions once you've had a chance to take a look? i don't have time to watch the whole video but it sounds iitneresting

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:21

Paper Kaiju: Dec 5, 2010; atomic breadth

signalnoise posted:

Hey Eminent Domain fans

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/michaelmindes/eminent-domain-battlecruisers-and-exotica

Welp, time to throw away another $40 on a game I never get to loving play.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:26

EvilChameleon: Nov 20, 2003; In my infinite money,
the jimmies rustle softly.

Got Dungeon Lords: Happy Anniversary in the mail today and I'm happy that it has an insert that actually seems to hold all the stuff in a reasonable manner. I used the fancy guide they posted to fit it all in but the only thing that is bothering me is that in their pictures they have cubes that are more than just red. I only have red cubes in my copy. Am I missing cubes? And if so who should I be talking to? (I haven't ever played the game before so I dunno what components are needed/bonus/whatever)

Paper Kaiju posted:

Welp, time to throw away another $40 on a game I never get to loving play.

I like the cut of your jib.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:54

Foehammer: Nov 8, 2005; We are invincible.

EvilChameleon posted:

Got Dungeon Lords: Happy Anniversary in the mail today and I'm happy that it has an insert that actually seems to hold all the stuff in a reasonable manner. I used the fancy guide they posted to fit it all in but the only thing that is bothering me is that in their pictures they have cubes that are more than just red. I only have red cubes in my copy. Am I missing cubes? And if so who should I be talking to? (I haven't ever played the game before so I dunno what components are needed/bonus/whatever)

I like the cut of your jib.

There should be one cube of each player color for the evil-ometer. Mine were in the large ziplock with the other wooden components.

Edit: Oh, you mean all the gem-like things in the top-left container? My copy didn't come with those either!

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:56

Electric Hobo: Oct 22, 2008; Grimey Drawer

Well, I ordered Eminent Domain and Escalation, and I backed the new expansion because why not. Thanks a lot.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 22:07

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

Foehammer posted:

There should be one cube of each player color for the evil-ometer. Mine were in the large ziplock with the other wooden components.

Edit: Oh, you mean all the gem-like things in the top-left container? My copy didn't come with those either!

The glass cubes were a kickstarter exclusive I believe.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 22:14

jeeves: May 27, 2001; Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire

Dominion lovely-Hasbro-printing-gate question:

I know that there is a tell-tale sign of the "PROUDLY MADE IN THE USA!" sticker on the Dominion base set for the poor-quality Hasbro printings. Does anyone know if this is the same for Intrigue or the other expansions? I've heard that all of the expansions that don't come with coins are being Hasbro-printed now, including 100% of copies of Adventures.

I'd like to buy Intrigue and my FLGS has a copy-- that doesn't have that sticker. I am curious if I should go for it before all of the good-versions are gone in favor of the shittier new printings. They definitely have the base set that has the sticker, but of course Adventures does not. I'm guessing it's just the base set that has the sticker to avoid?

# ? Jun 5, 2015 22:18

gutterdaughter: Oct 21, 2010; keep yr head up, problem girl

Fungah! posted:

mind posting impressions once you've had a chance to take a look? i don't have time to watch the whole video but it sounds iitneresting

Here's the "haven't played it with anyone else yet" breakdown. It's a bluffing and risk-calculation game for 2-4, plays in 30 minutes or less.

At the start of a round, the group picks one of the four adventurers--Warrior, Barbarian, Rogue, or Mage. One of you lucky sods is taking this hapless soul into a spooky dungeon. If he comes out alive, you get a Success. If he doesn't, you get a Wound. Two Successes and you win. Two Wounds and you're eliminated. (Last player standing gets an auto-win, of course).

Each of the adventurers has a few starting HP and six pieces of equipment, which either boost your HP or kill specific monsters. Here's the Rogue and the Mage, for example.

On the other side of the equation, you've got a deck of 13 monster cards. Each monster has a rank in the upper left, 1-9. Ones are Goblins, twos are Skeletons, nine is the Dragon, et cetera. Symbols in the upper right are reminders for Equipment That Kills This Monster.

(Card distro is 1122334455679, if you were wondering.)

Some of these monsters are going to end up in the titular Dungeon. Which ones? Good question!

On your turn, you have one basic choice to make: Draw a Monster or Chicken Out. If you Chicken Out, you're out for the round. Go grab a soda and wait for this adventurer to die.

If you choose to Draw a Monster, you look at the top card of the monster deck, and you get another choice to make. You can put the monster In the Dungeon, where the lucky Adventurer will have to deal with it later. Or, you can sacrifice a piece of the Adventurer's equipment to trap the Monster. Put the monster face down in front of you, with the sacrificed equipment tile on top. That monster won't be bothering the Adventurer in the future, but he's got one less tool for surviving the rest. Either way, pass the turn to the next guy, who has the same choices to make: Wimp or Draw? Dungeon or Sacrifice?

Here's where the bluffing game comes in. On his turn, Fozzy drew a monster card, and sacrificed the Dragonslayer Spear to trap it. Did he do that because he knows the Dragon is safely out of the way, trapped under a Kite Shield a few turns earlier? Or did he put the Dragon in the dungeon himself, and now he's setting up some other poor sap for an impromptu barbecue?

Keep going around until all but one player has Chickened Out. The last sucker standing takes the remaining scraps of equipment, counts up her total HP, and flips over the cards in the Dungeon one by one--either killing each monster with an appropriate piece of gear, or counting that monster's rank against her HP. If she makes it to the bottom of the stack alive, she takes a success card. If she dies, she takes a wound. Either way, reset the board. The last Adventurer picks a new class (Warrior/Barbarian/Rogue/Mage) for the next round, and takes the first turn. Rinse and repeat until someone clears two dungeons or everyone else is dead.

---

The obvious comparison is Donald X's Gauntlet of Fools. Hobble an adventurer until no one else wants her, then send her through monster hell and hope you gauged the challenge better than your opponents. But unlike GoF, you have a LOT more intel on what you're actually going to face in the pits. GoF relies a lot on gutfeel--you maybe kinda know what the average challenge will look like, but you're mostly going blind into a gigantic stack of random events.

In WttD, everything in that stack was consciously put there by someone. Either you saw it going in, or your opponents gave it a pass based on their own plans, which you can try to interpret. Tekopo killed the Dragonslayer Spear but left the armor intact? Maybe he's planning to facetank the dragon and crawl through on his last two hitpoints. He's nuked both? Now he's absolutely trying to wreck the adventurer and fob her off onto you...or at least, that's what he wants you to think.

I tend to like games where any "random" factor is filtered through player agency first, becoming deterministic when it hits the board. Once the Vampire is in the dungeon, there's no roll-to-hit bullshit. Either you have the tool to kill him, or the HP to survive him, or the urn for your ashes picked out.

As with any of the post-Seiji Kanai Minimalist games," however, the big two concerns are Replayability and Solvability. I've got a slight fear that, once someone's done enough math, the two-player game might become a highly evolved form of Nimm, where the first player can math out lose-lose situations for the opponent. I don't know if this fear is valid, and hopefully the secret information will prevent perfect calculation problems. Three players might be the sweet spot for this reason.

In the end, I decided $15 was a safe enough gamble to pick it up and play around with it. I'll let y'all know in a month if it's complete busted nonsense.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 22:19

Fungah!: Apr 30, 2011

Gutter Owl posted:

snip

hrn, interesting. sounds like a decent enough bluffing game, might make a trip up to my game store and see if they've got a copy, i've got a game night tonight so they might be interested in trying out a new filler game. thanks~!

# ? Jun 5, 2015 22:42

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 03:19

T-Bone: Sep 14, 2004; jakes did this?

jeeves posted:

I'd like to buy Intrigue and my FLGS has a copy-- that doesn't have that sticker. I am curious if I should go for it before all of the good-versions are gone in favor of the shittier new printings. They definitely have the base set that has the sticker, but of course Adventures does not. I'm guessing it's just the base set that has the sticker to avoid?

All the new Intrigues are definitely Hasbro so I would grab it for sure.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 23:03

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Board Game Thread 4e: The Call of Catan

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