U.S. Department of Justice vs. FIFA: Zurich in Flames, Indictments For All

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > U.S. Department of Justice vs. FIFA: Zurich in Flames, Indictments For All

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The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Eh, I get that, but the only things they actually have to build (Stadium, Olympic Park, bike arena, aquatics arena) can go in Boston proper.

Go look at a map of Boston. It's loving tiny geographically. They would have to literally knock over business or residential buildings to make room for anything inside of city limits. Or dredge up artificial land in the bay or something.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:13

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# ? May 20, 2024 21:04

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

Go look at a map of Boston. It's loving tiny geographically. They would have to literally knock over business or residential buildings to make room for anything inside of city limits. Or dredge up artificial land in the bay or something.

It's almost like that's what they're going to do!

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:15

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Olympic Stadiums have to be around 80k -- which is bigger than Gillette and bigger than anything that any team in Boston would ever draw for (both Harvard and Boston College have facilities in the 40-ish range). Which is why it wouldn't be "perm" seating for 80k --which is what they did with London and Atlanta. The only reason Rio and Tokoyo aren't doing this is because its their national stadiums.

Yeah but that's not the stadium itself being too big.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:18

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

The nations of the world really should just come together and all chip in to build and maintain two olympic 'cities' somewhere remote, one for summer games and one for winter, so no has to deal with Olympics bullshit unless they want to.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:26

StandardVC10: Feb 6, 2007; This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

Raskolnikov38 posted:

The nations of the world really should just come together and all chip in to build and maintain two olympic 'cities' somewhere remote, one for summer games and one for winter, so no has to deal with Olympics bullshit unless they want to.

I'm not convinced they wouldn't both end up in Qatar.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:27

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

StandardVC10 posted:

I'm not convinced they wouldn't both end up in Qatar.

Build a dome over a local mountain, and run a desalinization plant and snow machines 24/7 for five years. Shouldn't set them back more than ten billion dollars... and 20,000 lives.

They can name the new city whatever the local word for "hubris" is.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:30

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

Mister Macys posted:

Build a dome over a local mountain, and run a desalinization plant and snow machines 24/7 for five years. Shouldn't set them back more than ten billion dollars... and 20,000 lives.

They can name the new city whatever the local word for "hubris" is.

Olympimandus.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:33

FuriousxGeorge: Aug 8, 2007; We've been the best team all year.

They're just finding out.

Nintendo Kid posted:

Yeah but that's not the stadium itself being too big.

Yeah I meant the seating capacity. It's a huge downsizing to get to what MLS teams generally build for soccer specific stadiums. Generally they want around 20-30k max. That would be taking it even further than Atlanta (Downsize to 49,000) or London (Downsize to 54,000) but I suppose it could be done.

# ? Jun 5, 2015 21:44

tk: Dec 10, 2003; Nap Ghost

FuriousxGeorge posted:

Yeah I meant the seating capacity. It's a huge downsizing to get to what MLS teams generally build for soccer specific stadiums. Generally they want around 20-30k max. That would be taking it even further than Atlanta (Downsize to 49,000) or London (Downsize to 54,000) but I suppose it could be done.

Their team currently plays in a mostly empty Gillette, so it's not like having a bunch of empty seats would be a change for them. It's a waste of space/money, but that's another story.

tk fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jun 6, 2015

# ? Jun 6, 2015 00:09

FuriousxGeorge: Aug 8, 2007; We've been the best team all year.

They're just finding out.

tk posted:

Their team currently plays in a mostly empty Gillette, so it's not like having a bunch of empty seats would be a change for them.

Yeah, the MLS hates the optics of that sort of thing though and has made a concerted effort to get the smaller buildings built. Philly metro area has around 7 million people to Boston metro's 8. They built a stadium that seats 18,500. Boston probably wouldn't want to go a ton bigger than that.

For comparison, there is a high school football stadium in Texas that seats 18,000 for a city with a population of 84,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Stadium_%28Allen,_Texas%29

FuriousxGeorge fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jun 6, 2015

# ? Jun 6, 2015 00:12

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

FuriousxGeorge posted:

Yeah, the MLS hates the optics of that sort of thing though and has made a concerted effort to get the smaller buildings built. Philly metro area has around 7 million people to Boston metro's 8. They built a stadium that seats 18,500. Boston probably wouldn't want to go a ton bigger than that.

For comparison, there is a high school football stadium in Texas that seats 18,000 for a city with a population of 84,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Stadium_%28Allen,_Texas%29

DC United plays in the withered husk of RFK and the entire upper section is closed off for fear of ghosts and structural decay. Of course DC United games tend to at least fill the lower section so it doesn't look as bad.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 00:33

Cliff Racer: Mar 24, 2007; by Lowtax

Toplowtech posted:

And you know Mitt Romney and the Mormons and the South Lake City games. Then there is also the whole cold war madness, so you can be sure there are probably some crazy blackmail and skullduggery stories to tell about the LA and Moscow games.

Actually, LA was pretty much alone when it bid for its' games. This was immediately after the financial disaster in Montreal and wet fart in Moscow- the Olympics were seen as a huge boondoggle and practically nobody wanted them so LA got in with a cheapo bid. Of course LA then went on to be a massive success and the race was on for other cities to follow up.

Nintendo Kid posted:

To be fair the US has hosted the most Olympic Games of any country during the period of the modern Olympics, 4 summer and 4 winter. The next most is France with 2 summer and 3 winter, and then Japan with 2 of each.

The Olympics are not a national event like a World Cup, they are a city based event. Many huge American cities have yet to have had even a single one. Unless I am forgetting something, none of the major northeastern cities have had one, Chicago hasn't had one and actually had one stolen from it, Detroit came second in bidding something like three or four times but never got to host, there's never been one in Texas or Florida, etc. Its great the the distribution of games has become increasingly spread out but they've historically done a much better job of it than the World Cup has so there was no reason to have 28 years of no American games like there was when they did the "every conference gets a World Cup" rotation in FIFA. Remember, they first gave a games away to non-America/Europe (Tokyo won the right to host) in 1940, though they had to be cancelled due to war. Melbourne had them in the fifties, Mexico City in the sixties, Seoul in the eighties. I'd much rather see the IOC put limits on having cities rehosting than try to spread the games out more between nations.

FuriousxGeorge posted:

Wouldn't an Olympic stadium be too big for a permanent MLS home? Would they build it with a planned downgrade in size later on? It would make more sense to move the Patriots out of Foxboro but that doesn't make sense either.

They turned the Atlanta's into a goddamn baseball stadium, which involved tearing half of it down immediately after the games and then building in new stands closer to the opposing wall. Turning it into a football or soccer stadium (which would involve just having a temporary outer bowl, as opposed to Atlanta's vertical slices) should be much easier to do.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 02:01

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

Cliff Racer posted:

They turned the Atlanta's into a goddamn baseball stadium, which involved tearing half of it down immediately after the games and then building in new stands closer to the opposing wall. Turning it into a football or soccer stadium (which would involve just having a temporary outer bowl, as opposed to Atlanta's vertical slices) should be much easier to do.

And now they're tearing it down to build a lovely stadium in the burbs only 19 years later.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 02:21

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Cliff Racer posted:

The Olympics are not a national event like a World Cup, they are a city based event. Many huge American cities have yet to have had even a single one.

The Olympics are very much a national event and if you're going to be like that then there are like hundreds of more deserving cities that haven't had one than there are American cities.

As for no major Northeastern cities hosting: none of them particularly wanted them most of the time, and furthermore most of them would have pretty serious issues hosting. The last serious bid was a NYC one that would have involved a location that's currently getting some big rear end skyscrapers all over it now. Boston's got a bid right now but everyone around here loving hates the idea unless someone else pays for all of it and Massachusetts doesn't pay a red cent. And even then like 40% would still be opposed.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 02:57

ToastyPotato: Jun 23, 2005; CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

FuriousxGeorge posted:

Yeah, the MLS hates the optics of that sort of thing though and has made a concerted effort to get the smaller buildings built. Philly metro area has around 7 million people to Boston metro's 8. They built a stadium that seats 18,500. Boston probably wouldn't want to go a ton bigger than that.

For comparison, there is a high school football stadium in Texas that seats 18,000 for a city with a population of 84,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Stadium_%28Allen,_Texas%29

Yeah. If I am not mistaken, the NYFC, who currently play in Yankee Stadium (over 50k seats), are looking to get a 25kish stadium of their own.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 03:12

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

Go look at a map of Boston. It's loving tiny geographically. They would have to literally knock over business or residential buildings to make room for anything inside of city limits. Or dredge up artificial land in the bay or something.

The proposal is to bulldoze over some warehouse/food processing district, which also has some maintenance facilities of the public transport system.
Right around here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/W...f09c74a!6m1!1e1
And IIRC the stadium is actually supposed to be 100% temporary, just completely torn down --- and of course they want expensive housing to be there afterwards.

And anyway, the organizers basically showed almost... FIFA-like arrogance in how they did things --- basically completely behind closed doors, without any sort of
involvement with the community (unless you count the Boston mayor as community?). Like, say, they tentatively placed events in parks without consulting non-profits
that maintain them!

P. S. That article on Brookline opposition is already out of date. Brookline town meeting voted 111-46 on a resolution against hosting the Olympics in the area.
Boston 2024 organizers did not send anyone to speak to the town meeting, just sent a letter. Much earlier Cambridge did the same, in a city council vote.

You can see Brookline's resolution here, on page 37.
http://brooklinema.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/7253
It starts with "Whereas: the Town of Brookline, surrounded on three sides and about 85% of its
borders by Boston, was never consulted about hosting the 2024 Olympics before
Boston2024's private bid was placed, proposing at least two events within our town;"
...Well, I think you get my point.

P.P.S. A lot of Boston is already on dredged up land in the bay, BTW

# ? Jun 6, 2015 03:34

skaboomizzy: Nov 12, 2003; There is nothing I want to be. There is nothing I want to do.
I don't even have an image of what I want to be. I have nothing. All that exists is zero.

I feel like the Boston bid is the USOC's token attempt to feign interest. No sane community wants to host the Games now, so get used to them being used as schemes to line the pockets of oligarchs. The Sochi Games will look quaint in another twenty years.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 03:42

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

skaboomizzy posted:

I feel like the Boston bid is the USOC's token attempt to feign interest. No sane community wants to host the Games now, so get used to them being used as schemes to line the pockets of oligarchs. The Sochi Games will look quaint in another twenty years.

I think not building an Olympic village or stadiums is the only thing that's gonna top using tarp as a structural material.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 03:50

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

Raskolnikov38 posted:

The nations of the world really should just come together and all chip in to build and maintain two olympic 'cities' somewhere remote, one for summer games and one for winter, so no has to deal with Olympics bullshit unless they want to.

You say that like the bullshit isn't intentional and the point.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 06:40

BexGu: Jan 9, 2004; This fucking day....

axeil posted:

DC United plays in the withered husk of RFK and the entire upper section is closed off for fear of ghosts and structural decay. Of course DC United games tend to at least fill the lower section so it doesn't look as bad.

Worth it to not be owned by Dan Synder.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 15:13

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK: Sep 11, 2008; Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
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Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
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-Cheap Trick; Nap Ghost

Mister Macys posted:

Build a dome over a local mountain, and run a desalinization plant and snow machines 24/7 for five years. Shouldn't set them back more than ten billion dollars... and 20,000 lives.

They can name the new city whatever the local word for "hubris" is.

The highest elevation in Qatar is like 338 ft.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 16:16

Constant Hamprince: Oct 24, 2010; by exmarx; College Slice

ayn rand hand job posted:

The highest elevation in Qatar is like 338 ft.

Solution: Stack the foreign worker corpses on top of each other. They'll have a double black diamond-grade slope before they're halfway finished laying out the foundation!

# ? Jun 6, 2015 17:22

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

ayn rand hand job posted:

The highest elevation in Qatar is like 338 ft.

That's smaller than the Dune of Pilat! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_of_Pilat

for shame.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 17:28

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

skaboomizzy posted:

I feel like the Boston bid is the USOC's token attempt to feign interest. No sane community wants to host the Games now, so get used to them being used as schemes to line the pockets of oligarchs. The Sochi Games will look quaint in another twenty years.

Yeah any city with half a brain should be glad to not win the Olympics given all the problems it causes.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 17:40

Cliff Racer: Mar 24, 2007; by Lowtax

An Olympics could actually be pretty good for a city, provided that they have spare land to develop and a federal government (or a couple of private businesses which really need stadiums) to foot the bill for them. Ironically Doha would probably benefit greatly from having an Olympics, even if the Olympics would not benefit from having Doha.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 17:48

Cantorsdust: Aug 10, 2008; Infinitely many points, but zero length.

Cliff Racer posted:

An Olympics could actually be pretty good for a city, provided that they have spare land to develop and a federal government (or a couple of private businesses which really need stadiums) to foot the bill for them. Ironically Doha would probably benefit greatly from having an Olympics, even if the Olympics would not benefit from having Doha.

Problem is that it usually works the other way: the city/state/federal government foots the bill, uses eminent domain to clear out some poors, and then turns it all over to the private companies who now have carte blanche to develop this new area.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 17:51

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Cantorsdust posted:

Problem is that it usually works the other way: the city/state/federal government foots the bill, uses eminent domain to clear out some poors, and then turns it all over to the private companies who now have carte blanche to develop this new area.

So you're saying it should be awarded to Miami since that's how they work anyway, occasionally substituting "federally protected wetlands" for "poors"? :v:

# ? Jun 6, 2015 17:53

SubponticatePoster: Aug 9, 2004; Every day takes figurin' out all over again how to fuckin' live.; Slippery Tilde

etalian posted:

Yeah any city with half a brain should be glad to not win the Olympics given all the problems it causes.

Ours (2002 winter) actually went off pretty well. At least it got us better mass transit. I think SLC is actually one of the main "fallback" sites since we still have everything. Speedskating oval, ski jumps, etc. So if there's some kind of natural disaster or other thing that makes a winter games fall through they can rehost here in short order.

It was actually pretty neat having them here, but I think ~~all the bribes~~ the bidding process was a bit less ridiculous back in the 90's when we got them.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 18:07

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

I'm wondering if winning an Olympics is like a giant stimulus spending by the government. Except at the end of the Olympics you wind up with a bunch of poo poo you don't need while in traditional government stimulus plans you get a new road or something that your community actually needs.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 20:14

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

SubponticatePoster posted:

Ours (2002 winter) actually went off pretty well. At least it got us better mass transit. I think SLC is actually one of the main "fallback" sites since we still have everything. Speedskating oval, ski jumps, etc. So if there's some kind of natural disaster or other thing that makes a winter games fall through they can rehost here in short order.

It was actually pretty neat having them here, but I think ~~all the bribes~~ the bidding process was a bit less ridiculous back in the 90's when we got them.

Only a related hilarious note, the SLC did have a bribe for votes scandal involving 2 IOC members and the SLC Olympics committee so it's just not countries like Russia trying the scheme.

Mitt Romney got hired as a result and was fairly successful at rounding enough money from mormon businessmen to fund the games in addition to 1.4 billion dollars in federal funding for the games.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 20:19

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

Vladimir Putin posted:

I'm wondering if winning an Olympics is like a giant stimulus spending by the government. Except at the end of the Olympics you wind up with a bunch of poo poo you don't need while in traditional government stimulus plans you get a new road or something that your community actually needs.

Well, yes, except for a few differences. It would be like the government gave you the go-ahead on a stimulus project but only if the city in question did all the work and ponied up all the money. And it has to be a rich and vibrant city too, no poors for this "stimulus". Finally, in return for allowing this "stimulus" project to go through, the government demand all sorts of kickback, like having the city paint and set aside entire road lanes for the officials overseeing the "stimulus" (something the IOC actually demanded of...Sweden I think it was?)

So, it's not at all like a stimulus, and you still end up with the rotting, crumbling, unusable stadiums.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 20:28

Full Battle Rattle: Aug 29, 2009; As long as the times refuse to change, we're going to make a hell of a racket.

I never even knew that they built entire new stadiums every single time until the last world cup. That's so mind-bogglingly crazy to me.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 21:18

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Full Battle Rattle posted:

I never even knew that they built entire new stadiums every single time until the last world cup. That's so mind-bogglingly crazy to me.

well most of it due to how most places don't have huge stadiums.

The 1994 world cup at the US didn't have to build new stuff but on the flip side it meant teams had to travel all over the country for the games.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 21:48

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

etalian posted:

well most of it due to how most places don't have huge stadiums.

The 1994 world cup at the US didn't have to build new stuff but on the flip side it meant teams had to travel all over the country for the games.

Isn't that always the case though. The games were spread all over Brazil and South America and Korea/Japan. I mean it might have been an hour more flying but these are professional athletes who spend their whole lives traveling, often internationally.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 21:52

Full Battle Rattle: Aug 29, 2009; As long as the times refuse to change, we're going to make a hell of a racket.

etalian posted:

well most of it due to how most places don't have huge stadiums.

It made so much sense in retrospect.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 21:53

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

Cliff Racer posted:

An Olympics could actually be pretty good for a city, provided that they have spare land to develop and a federal government (or a couple of private businesses which really need stadiums) to foot the bill for them. Ironically Doha would probably benefit greatly from having an Olympics, even if the Olympics would not benefit from having Doha.

Aren't the Los Angeles Olympics the only one that's made money in the last thirty years because they already had the infrastructure in the first place?

# ? Jun 6, 2015 21:57

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

Mister Macys posted:

Aren't the Los Angeles Olympics the only one that's made money in the last thirty years because they already had the infrastructure in the first place?

Also basically all of the venues are still used commonly today.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 22:04

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Alkydere posted:

\
So, it's not at all like a stimulus, and you still end up with the rotting, crumbling, unusable stadiums.

Unless you have someone like, idk, us do it.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 22:18

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

I keep thinking that the inability of any US city to provide the kind of sterile branding area that Olympic sponsors demand would be a major hitch in any plans to host. The ACLU is very quick to attack any attempt to create a marketing Clean Zone on public areas and they have the law on their side.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 22:36

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# ? May 20, 2024 21:04

BI NOW GAY LATER: Jan 17, 2008; So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Shifty Pony posted:

I keep thinking that the inability of any US city to provide the kind of sterile branding area that Olympic sponsors demand would be a major hitch in any plans to host. The ACLU is very quick to attack any attempt to create a marketing Clean Zone on public areas and they have the law on their side.

It's not a big deal and it only lasts for the month or that it happens.

# ? Jun 6, 2015 22:39

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > U.S. Department of Justice vs. FIFA: Zurich in Flames, Indictments For All

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