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NutritiousSnack posted:Where's anyone have that fake political cartoon of the guy screaming at Hitler, while Hitler sits there calmly and goes "wow all I want to do is kill all the jews and you won't let me, looks like you need to do some growing up pal" because this entire thing is an unironic version of that. Reasonable Hitler. 
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Jun 7, 2015 09:38
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I'd pledge a hundred dollars if they made that the cover picture.
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Jun 7, 2015 09:40
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I was stoked for this game, you guys have no idea The idea of adding dragons and Medusa and kraken to the nWoD's bestiary sounded so good to me And now, look at this.
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Jun 7, 2015 09:51
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tatankatonk posted:I guess that the gleeful, willing malice of the Beasts is what makes them so unpalatable. It's sad that their souls are, from birth, trying to drag them back into being monsters. It's intolerable that they be allowed to exist once that happens, though. There's nobody except the book who can make Beasts sound like things that need to live for the world to be a good place. Is it me or does this segment suggest Beasts aren't actually people who've ~finally accepted their inner sociopath~ or whatever but people who're straight up soul-devoured and possessed by primeval nightmare monsters, who in the process swallowed all their memories too and now falsely think they're the original, while still being a horrific nightmare monster that just now has skin and calls itself Pete?
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Jun 7, 2015 10:31
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spectralent posted:Is it me or does this segment suggest Beasts aren't actually people who've ~finally accepted their inner sociopath~ or whatever but people who're straight up soul-devoured and possessed by primeval nightmare monsters, who in the process swallowed all their memories too and now falsely think they're the original, while still being a horrific nightmare monster that just now has skin and calls itself Pete? Yup. At this point I'd have to disagree with the person who said Beasts would get on with Seers and the Pure - that's the wrong category of antagonists. Beasts are more like the Strix, the Maeljin, or Abyssal intruders - terrifying entities that exist only to degrade and devour and whose very existence is a blight on the world. They even do creepy things like devour children's/teenager's souls to wear them as a person suit, put the mind-whammy on supernaturals to make them their best buds, and look ravenously on as the supernatural indulges in their vices. Hell, you know where we've heard the "you and I are kin" speech in the nWoD before? It's what the Strix say to vampires.
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Jun 7, 2015 10:37
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Flavivirus posted:Yup. At this point I'd have to disagree with the person who said Beasts would get on with Seers and the Pure - that's the wrong category of antagonists. Beasts are more like the Strix, the Maeljin, or Abyssal intruders - terrifying entities that exist only to degrade and devour and whose very existence is a blight on the world. They even do creepy things like devour children's/teenager's souls to wear them as a person suit, put the mind-whammy on supernaturals to make them their best buds, and look ravenously on as the supernatural indulges in their vices. Exactly what I was thinking after I thought about it some. Also the thing about heroes losing their hero-ness after getting integrity up combined with the fact beasts get satiety from killing them is making me think of a former hero who's like a beast's disinterested ex. "And now my nemesis for our final showdown." "Oh, yeah, uh, actually I've kind of moved on from that." "What?" "Sorry, I got a job and I just don't have time to play around anymore." Also also the thing about heroes not being from integrity 4 people who were exposed to the supernatural is still dumb, because it's also entirely possible to be integrity 4 from mundane things that traumatise you. So, text is suggesting that war veterans, abuse survivors, people who were involved in protracted horrific situations like kidnappings or long-term natural disasters, etc have weak souls and are self centred. But then this is also the game that mocks the concept of triggers, so I shouldn't be surprised.
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Jun 7, 2015 10:51
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Flavivirus posted:Yup. At this point I'd have to disagree with the person who said Beasts would get on with Seers and the Pure - that's the wrong category of antagonists. Beasts are more like the Strix, the Maeljin, or Abyssal intruders - terrifying entities that exist only to degrade and devour and whose very existence is a blight on the world. Don't forget the True Fae! Seriously, reading about the Beasts and the poo poo they put people through is reminding me more of the True Fae than even the Changeling books.
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Jun 7, 2015 11:52
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There's a Sergei Lukianenko short story about a drifter in a post-apocalyptic world who comes to a town being terrorized by a gang of "vampires". He kills all but one of them, and heads off on a train into the sunset without taking payment, taking the one survivor with him. The guy wakes up and screams at him about how they were just playing, and he says, "Yeah, I know. But real vampires don't like little shits like you." In this analogy, Beasts are the posers, and every other supernatural line are the real monsters.
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Jun 7, 2015 12:10
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So what happens if CPP doesn't want to be attached to a game focused on being a hateful douchebag? Do all the nWoD serial numbers get filed off and it still goes out the door as a stand-alone?
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Jun 7, 2015 13:36
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moths posted:So what happens if CPP doesn't want to be attached to a game focused on being a hateful douchebag? Do all the nWoD serial numbers get filed off and it still goes out the door as a stand-alone? OPP? I don't think they can, the problem with beasts is that they're heavily entwined with every world of darkness gameline. They'd need to jettison everything except the mechanics (which are good) and start from scratch. CCP? I doubt they even know what the hell is going on with the World of Darkness license these days.
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Jun 7, 2015 14:40
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Kurieg posted:OPP? I don't think they can, the problem with beasts is that they're heavily entwined with every world of darkness gameline. They'd need to jettison everything except the mechanics (which are good) and start from scratch. Technically every nWoD (and Exalted and oWoD) product needs CCP approval to go ahead, though I'm not sure how in-depth that is. I doubt they care very much so long as it's not going to get them sued or anything.
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Jun 7, 2015 14:44
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I seriously want to take up a collection and professionally pay a person to run Beast simultaneously with every Vampire LARP, pickup, or convention game I'm in from here on out. The giant sucking sound as the players who only want to play superhero monster bully-beaters rush to Beast and away from a more nuanced political game will be music to my ears. And is that it? Is it all a joke? Is this the Players bloodline from Requiem 1E but as its own entire line? Has OPP looked into the souls of the playerbase in general, found them wanting, and given them this? Did we do this to ourselves?
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Jun 7, 2015 15:57
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Beast is the kind of game where it seems like they wanted to write about scenery-chewing, mustache-twirling villains who invited their heroic nemeses into their Secret Lairs while playing their leitmotif on their standard-issue spooky organ, then someone tacked on completely mismanaged social commentary that means both parties end up staring awkwardly at each other when they realize how badly they've been written. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my end because I really love a game where I can yell WELCOME TO YOUR DOOM and flourish my comically oversized black-and-red cape.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:09
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I'm starting to suspect that Beast: the Primordial is bad. It's bad and not good.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:12
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Attorney at Funk posted:I'm starting to suspect that Beast: the Primordial is bad. It's bad and not good. I'm surprised it's not already in FATAL and Friends tbh, especially after those excerpts upthread.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:13
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Daeren posted:Beast is the kind of game where it seems like they wanted to write about scenery-chewing, mustache-twirling villains who invited their heroic nemeses into their Secret Lairs while playing their leitmotif on their standard-issue spooky organ, then someone tacked on completely mismanaged social commentary that means both parties end up staring awkwardly at each other when they realize how badly they've been written. 6. 1 2. Wharf Avenue. Right next to. Gentleman's Club.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:16
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Daeren posted:Beast is the kind of game where it seems like they wanted to write about scenery-chewing, mustache-twirling villains who invited their heroic nemeses into their Secret Lairs while playing their leitmotif on their standard-issue spooky organ, then someone tacked on completely mismanaged social commentary that means both parties end up staring awkwardly at each other when they realize how badly they've been written. Even then, the two parts are themselves pretty bad, unless the abusive vice principal was meant to be social commentary of some kind etc. and they fed off one another.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:16
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Effectronica posted:Even then, the two parts are themselves pretty bad, unless the abusive vice principal was meant to be social commentary of some kind etc. and they fed off one another. Well yes, but if you're looking for anything actually good in Beast instead of just "this was a good idea once", you're going to end up burning down most everything that isn't the mechanics, and then taking a hammer and chisel to a good portion of those. E: Like for real, aside from the bizarrely high power level of everything, a lot of the conceits of the mechanics of things like Lairs and Kinship Nightmares and poo poo are pretty novel, and I really enjoy how they work even if I don't always like what they do.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:19
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Daeren posted:Well yes, but if you're looking for anything actually good in Beast instead of just "this was a good idea once", you're going to end up burning down most everything that isn't the mechanics, and then taking a hammer and chisel to a good portion of those. There's some interesting mechanics, and you could probably use some of the fluff in a revisionist context (granted, I doubt that there's a market for playing extrauniversal horrors that are trying to insinuate themselves into monstrous society).
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Jun 7, 2015 16:24
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Daeren posted:Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my end because I really love a game where I can yell WELCOME TO YOUR DOOM and flourish my comically oversized black-and-red cape. I loved doing this in Exalted as an Infernal- any other games that do this? Better Angels is one that I know of, anything else? Daeren posted:Like for real, aside from the bizarrely high power level of everything, a lot of the conceits of the mechanics of things like Lairs and Kinship Nightmares and poo poo are pretty novel, and I really enjoy how they work even if I don't always like what they do. Someone else in the thread said it
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Jun 7, 2015 16:27
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I mean the book is pretty much done, but honestly there's probably nothing in it that couldn't be fixed with like 2 solid months of editing and maybe 10 to 15 pages on the Primordial Dream and the role it has in the cosmology. It still probably wouldn't end up a book I'd like, but it'd be internally consistent and add something to the setting that way.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:28
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CommissarMega posted:I loved doing this in Exalted as an Infernal- any other games that do this? Better Angels is one that I know of, anything else? Or just release it as an antagonist book instead of trying to make them sympathetic, relatable people.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:29
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I love the game for having a power that lets you vomit fire every day for no cost, and for having an ability called "BEHOLD MY TRUE FORM" that requires you to make eye contact with your enemy and rant at them to deal purely psychological damage. But then everything else about the game happens. Pope Guilty posted:I'm surprised it's not already in FATAL and Friends tbh, especially after those excerpts upthread. I'm waiting until the finalized version of the book comes out. At the very least.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:30
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Dammit Who? posted:What queer person imagines themselves in their secret heart to be a horrible assistant principal? This was post was incredible and completely on the nose, by the by.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:50
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Kurieg posted:an ability called "BEHOLD MY TRUE FORM" that requires you to make eye contact with your enemy and rant at them to deal purely psychological damage. This is also Demon as gently caress.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:50
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Ferrinus posted:This was post was incredible and completely on the nose, by the by. Agreed, without the emote because I'm not being sarcastic. I didn't say this last night but you've been on loving fire with your posts about Beast, Dammit Who?.
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Jun 7, 2015 16:53
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quote:Demon: What would happen if I tore off your masks? Would anything remain? An immensely pissed-off robot that just regained all its health & mana, topped off its power meter, and gained access to a wide arsenal of reality hacks and inbuilt weaponry? Someone didn't think this sentence through when they wrote it.
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Jun 7, 2015 17:33
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Does the author of this poo poo just hate Demon or something?
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Jun 7, 2015 17:35
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Night10194 posted:Does the author of this poo poo just hate Demon or something? Same exact guy wrote for both.
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Jun 7, 2015 17:36
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Night10194 posted:Does the author of this poo poo just hate Demon or something? It's a clumsy attempt to preserve some mystery in the setting.
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Jun 7, 2015 17:37
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SunAndSpring posted:An immensely pissed-off robot that just regained all its health & mana, topped off its power meter, and gained access to a wide arsenal of reality hacks and inbuilt weaponry? Someone didn't think this sentence through when they wrote it. Not to mention you just called down a hit squad of murderbots all like  
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Jun 7, 2015 17:37
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Night10194 posted:Does the author of this poo poo just hate Demon or something? If he did he wouldn't have set demons apart as special while lumping all other playable creatures together as the beasts' precocious kid brothers and sisters.
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Jun 7, 2015 17:38
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Did Onyx Path lose an editor last year? That's the only rationale I can think of for the drop in quality.
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Jun 7, 2015 17:41
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I'm still chuckling at the idea of a Beast taking the book's recommended path of trying to make hunters question themselves by turning the question of who the real monster is on them. "Aha, maybe it is you who are the real monster!" "Yes, I am one of the 666 sons and daughters of Satan and I am perpetually surrounded by hellfire." "But what if YOU are the real monster?" "No poo poo, I work for an unimaginable horror's pharmaceutical company and half my body has been replaced by things I organlegged from wizards, vampires, werewolves, and faeries." "But what if killing me makes you the real monster?" "I am a plumber and you are a giant squid that tricks people into swimming in a lake so you can 'punish' them by either drowning them or snubbing them on instagram."
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Jun 7, 2015 17:50
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Mormon Star Wars posted:I'm still chuckling at the idea of a Beast taking the book's recommended path of trying to make hunters question themselves by turning the question of who the real monster is on them. "PERHAPS IT IS MAN THAT IS THE TRUE - wait a second is that your dick, goddamn man put that back in your pants, just because I can fly doesn't mean I'm interested"
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Jun 7, 2015 17:52
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Mormon Star Wars posted:I'm still chuckling at the idea of a Beast taking the book's recommended path of trying to make hunters question themselves by turning the question of who the real monster is on them. "Perhaps the same can be said of all religions, O faithful one..." "Yeah, perhaps." *licks lips, pulls on bib, pours clarified butter into chafing dish*
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Jun 7, 2015 17:54
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Mormon Star Wars posted:I'm still chuckling at the idea of a Beast taking the book's recommended path of trying to make hunters question themselves by turning the question of who the real monster is on them. I mean, this is the central question for Hunter and basically what decides your character is how you answer it. And here Beast treats it as something no Hunter has ever heard before. It's like those weird missionaries on college campuses who assume someone in the US actually hasn't heard of Jesus before.
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Jun 7, 2015 17:54
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"Maybe it's you who is the real monster---" "I have cold iron here and you won't take me again." So why didn't they call this True Fae: The Fair Folk?
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Jun 7, 2015 17:57
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Mormon Star Wars posted:"But what if killing me makes you the real monster?" "I am a plumber and you are a giant squid that tricks people into swimming in a lake so you can 'punish' them by either drowning them or snubbing them on instagram." Now I'm envisioning Bowser as a beast, with Mario as his Hero. Does Beast have go-kart rules?
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Jun 7, 2015 18:15
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Bowser is too decent to be a Beast.
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Jun 7, 2015 18:19
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