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Gilok posted:So I don't want to go wade through thousands of off-site forums posts. What do RPG.net and OPP forums think of Beast? Are these same issues being raised and taken seriously there, are they being raised and then smacked down by mods, or do they all love it? 4chan despises it, RPG.net is having about the same debate if much more carefully with far more people defending its honor, and last I looked at OPP they were about the same as RPG.net, with more confusion than frustration.
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# ? Jun 7, 2015 23:44 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 18:33 |
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Gilok posted:So I don't want to go wade through thousands of off-site forums posts. What do RPG.net and OPP forums think of Beast? Are these same issues being raised and taken seriously there, are they being raised and then smacked down by mods, or do they all love it?
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# ? Jun 7, 2015 23:45 |
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The mage page states that mages sometimes listen to Beasts going on about the Dark Mother and take away the idea that Beasts are servants of the Life Exarch. An "honor" literally no other splat gets - vampires and mummies get classed as "related to the lower depths" by the Orders, werewolves and Sin-Eaters are regarded as native guides to their respective otherworlds, but Beasts are the guys who a non-zero number of mages look at and decide must represent everything wrong with the universe. Now, if you play Beast, those mages are obviously wrong. But it's not exactly Poochie.
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# ? Jun 7, 2015 23:46 |
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Roland Jones posted:Ah, fair enough. Still, the rest of it stands, and what he has written on these subjects and other things I've found reading back in this thread do not inspire confidence. I was already unsold on buying Demon now that I have a little spare money before I read that. Said before and it's the reason I'm in this thread: Demon might be the best game in the White Wolf/OPP line, better than Changeling or even Promtehsus even with the right group in my honest opinion.
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# ? Jun 7, 2015 23:52 |
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Night10194 posted:Also this thread is making me think that as well as Hunter, Changeling might very well be for me, too. It's basically normal people taken by hosed up horror faeries and turned into something inhuman who escape and try to stay escaped, while trying to deal with their trauma, yes? Changeling owns, Daemon (now that I've bought it) owns too, get both they're amazing. That being said, I still like Changeling better, and I'd kill for an IRL game. Yawgmoth posted:I can't speak for RPG.net but OPP posters are by and large the best examples of Beast sample characters outside of an otherkin tumblr so I can't imagine that they are concerned with anything in the book. From what I've seen, 4chan's surprisingly 50/50; I'd have thought they'd be all for it.
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# ? Jun 7, 2015 23:53 |
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LatwPIAT posted:Got a link to that? This is the thread quote:OK, I'm not going to post in red text, because I'm very much a normal poster in this thread, but as a request - could we tone down the "OMG HEROES ARE FIREMEN WHY DO YOU HATE FIREMEN" stuff a little? Because that's really obviously not what we're going for, and frankly the question of why Heroes are called Heroes has been more than adequately answered.
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# ? Jun 7, 2015 23:54 |
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Dave Brookshaw posted:The mage page states that mages sometimes listen to Beasts going on about the Dark Mother and take away the idea that Beasts are servants of the Life Exarch. An "honor" literally no other splat gets - vampires and mummies get classed as "related to the lower depths" by the Orders, werewolves and Sin-Eaters are regarded as native guides to their respective otherworlds, but Beasts are the guys who a non-zero number of mages look at and decide must represent everything wrong with the universe. Beast is what happens when you Join the Seers. Don't join the Seers.
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# ? Jun 7, 2015 23:55 |
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paradoxGentleman posted:Bowser is too decent to be a Beast. Agreed, please don't compare Bowser to that book.
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# ? Jun 7, 2015 23:55 |
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Honestly the crossover stuff (barring the Hunter bits) didn't bug me as much because it gives me the feeling that most Beasts are lonely. They track down other monster-y things to hang out with and right out the gate try to make a space for themselves, but slowly realize that even other monsters are more human than they are. It's an interesting idea.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:00 |
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Obligatum VII posted:Agreed, please don't compare Bowser to that book. Besides, Bowser can't be a Beast, he is all the time in the shape of an awesome dragon-turtle thing that breath fire.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:00 |
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Gilok posted:So I don't want to go wade through thousands of off-site forums posts. What do RPG.net and OPP forums think of Beast? Are these same issues being raised and taken seriously there, are they being raised and then smacked down by mods, or do they all love it? A mix of the latter two with hints of the first, from what I've seen; they are being discussed and at least given token consideration, but RPG.net's terrible moderation is frequently smacking detractors, though that might just be because they're incapable of anything but the most heavy-handed letter-of-the-law sort of moderation, and a ton of people there seem to love it and not consider or not care about the problems with the game, or are jumping through hoops to justify it/explain it away. Though I've only taken looks through the RPG.net thread, so, yeah. Other people here seem to have different impressions.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:01 |
Bowser is a Sorcerer according to the mario 1 instruction manual
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:04 |
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Dave Brookshaw posted:The mage page states that mages sometimes listen to Beasts going on about the Dark Mother and take away the idea that Beasts are servants of the Life Exarch. An "honor" literally no other splat gets - vampires and mummies get classed as "related to the lower depths" by the Orders, werewolves and Sin-Eaters are regarded as native guides to their respective otherworlds, but Beasts are the guys who a non-zero number of mages look at and decide must represent everything wrong with the universe. I think the most reasonable perspective for a knowledgeable mage to take is that Beasts are exponents of an extremely powerful Temenos "god", or at least a repeating phenomenon rooted in that place.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:10 |
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Honestly the crossover stuff (barring the Hunter bits) didn't bug me as much because it gives me the feeling that most Beasts are lonely. They track down other monster-y things to hang out with and right out the gate try to make a space for themselves, but slowly realize that even other monsters are more human than they are. It's an interesting idea. I agree. And any supernatural that's like "wow, you can charge up my supernatural powers" instead of "holy poo poo, stay away from me, don't charge up my supernatural powers please" is exactly the type of greedy shithead that will make all kinds of interesting trouble. And the amount of dice added is comparable to the "helping" mechanic that already exists. So that's cool. The other games have done a really good job of making the supernatural abilities integrate with character development. Someone who can just say your name and your blood starts to boil like it's FUCKIN ALIVE AGAIN MAN is very, very creepy. Hell, aren't there poo poo-tons of Very Dangerous Beings out there that Mages warn each other about cutting deals with? Isn't this the Abyss all over again? The abilities letting them go into and out of (say) the Hedge also more or less mark them as fuckheads of the highest caliber. Of course there are Changelings that love them. Privateers. I think the Kinship mechanics fit my view of the game pretty well.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:14 |
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Little_wh0re posted:Bowser is a Sorcerer according to the mario 1 instruction manual Makes sense.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:16 |
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The crossover stuff is the least awful part of the book because it's the part that hooks into games that have a reason to exist and siphons off their meaning while conveying none in return. At least it's an ethos.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:17 |
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Will be interesting to see if this Monday update consists of anything other than pointing at the Kickstarter that's well on its way to doubling its funding goal and saying, "Scoreboard." Obviously somebody wants this book, or thinks they do.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:33 |
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Night10194 posted:Also this thread is making me think that as well as Hunter, Changeling might very well be for me, too. It's basically normal people taken by hosed up horror faeries and turned into something inhuman who escape and try to stay escaped, while trying to deal with their trauma, yes? Yes, but it's also completely awesome in basically every other way because there's just so much stuff to do. Some games you wonder what you're meant to do, Changelings almost have too much stuff; some things could be the basis for entire games alone.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:38 |
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Crion posted:Will be interesting to see if this Monday update consists of anything other than pointing at the Kickstarter that's well on its way to doubling its funding goal and saying, "Scoreboard." Obviously somebody wants this book, or thinks they do. This is what I'm expecting. A mix of "thanks for backing this!" and "we're getting great feedback, keep it coming!" I mean, really, doing something like pulling the book and rewriting would be a pretty unprecedented (for OPP) admission of failure, and they have a project that isn't actually failing because there are plenty of people paying for it. If the grumbling reaches critical mass, or someone says something unfathomably stupid in public and pledges start getting pulled, then they might change course. I honestly can't see anything other than maybe reiterating that the text of the book is right there on the kickstarter page and people are free to make decisions based on it.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 00:56 |
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Nearly every person on 4chan is utterly making GBS threads on outside of one or two defenders who might be trolls.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:09 |
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I don't know how I missed this onequote:
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:09 |
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Oh MAN I don't know how I missed this onequote:They say children can see monsters. They’re wrong, at least about him. He’s only seen in his day job, as the administrator of a juvenile justice facility. His facility’s got one of the cleanest records in the state. After lights out, he stalks the corridors of the building, seeing what no one else can see, guarding against the dangers the children bring inside with them or foment when given too much time to themselves. He says he’d never hurt any of “his kids”... but cross enough lines and you’re not his kid anymore. or this one quote:Like every one of his kind, he knows what it’s like to be on the outside, but he likes it there very much. He gets to watch people. Happy people. Sad people. Loving people. He sets up camp every night across the street from the only bar in town, and watches the little people go about their lives, blissfully unaware that they share their town with a monster. He’s very strict with his Hunger. He only lets it out every few years, but oh, what a glorious feast. To take one of those happy people and break their neck before they can even stop smiling, and then to feast on the flesh.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:12 |
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Of course not-Trunchbull isn't the only example of sample characters abusing children in the book. Why would it be.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:17 |
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Crion posted:Of course not-Trunchbull isn't the only example of sample characters abusing children in the book. Why would it be. Reminder that the flagship character in chargen gets like two paragraphs of an example of play where she nearly murders a child for taking other kids' Halloween candy.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:19 |
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tatankatonk posted:Oh MAN I don't know how I missed this one "I only need to feed every few years, gently caress what the rules say." that or he sits at Satiety zero for a LONG time. Nightmares for EVERYBODY.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:21 |
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quote:Example of Character Creation quote:Right now, Mrs. Winters looks like a sweet, benign old lady who just wants to protect her neighborhood. At this stage, Magda adds the details that make her not so benign. quote:• Are you a social predator? Magda decides that Mrs. Winters is disinclined to hunt with other Begotten, especially since her primary target is children. She would rather not deal with the judgmental attitudes that other Beasts might bring (or, indeed, expose the neighborhood kids to a Beast with a bloodier Hunger than hers). The snickering from the other players at the hypocrisy in Mrs. Winters’ stance is reward enough for Magda to not take the point of Satiety for the third question. quote:
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:23 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:24 |
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As someone who has heard a lot about child abuse, up to and including parents slowly poisoning their adopted children to death to 'punish' them, this legitimately makes me angry now.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:29 |
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Night10194 posted:As someone who has heard a lot about child abuse, up to and including parents slowly poisoning their adopted children to death to 'punish' them, this legitimately makes me angry now. No, but you see, anyone reading anything unsavory into the interpretations of the game is obviously doing it wrong, because the developers would never do something as vile as imply that the players should be enjoying inflicting realistic, lovingly detailed abuse on people who- quote:Magda is making a character for her friend Orson’s Beast game. quote:Just to drive the point home, she uses the You Deserve This Nightmare on Brent, and Magda is delighted to see that she’s rolled an exceptional success! quote:Magda is delighted ...no you see, because the developers would never intend to imply
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:37 |
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I have legitimately no idea how, but this book is worse than changing breeds or that gypsy supplement.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:37 |
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Beast is that particular sort of horrible and horrific product that not only makes me reconsider spending money on things that OPP puts out in the future, but makes me think about cutting back on the amount I use OPP products in the present. It never really bothered me to be known as a tabletop gamer who plays White Wolf/OPP products before now, but now it's something I have to sit down and think about. I might not duck out of any current games, but I'm reconsidering whether I want to start or join any new ones in the future, even using old editions.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:39 |
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Daeren posted:No, but you see, anyone reading anything unsavory into the interpretations of the game is obviously doing it wrong, because the developers would never do something as vile as imply that the players should be enjoying inflicting realistic, lovingly detailed abuse on people who- Of course not, they're long past Implying. NutritiousSnack posted:I have legitimately no idea how, but this book is worse than changing breeds or that gypsy supplement. Let's not go saying things we'll regret.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:39 |
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Beast doesn't make me want to stop playing nWoD/OPP games. It really, really makes me wish that a bunch of other people would stop playing them, forever.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:43 |
This book fails on so many loving levels that I feel legitimately concerned for the people that got it funded. Did people even read the loving PDF before they threw in money? Either answer is disappointing.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:43 |
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SunAndSpring posted:This book fails on so many loving levels that I feel legitimately concerned for the people that got it funded. Did people even read the loving PDF before they threw in money? Either answer is disappointing. I'm not sure I could fault people who saw stuff like Demon, Changeling, and the 2.0 versions of Werewolf and Vampire and decided to donate sight unseen (and without wanting the spoil themselves on a raw text version of the book). They were obviously fools in retrospect, but that's a good track record to bet on. Now, still having money in the pot knowing what we know now? Yeah, that's messed up.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:46 |
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NutritiousSnack posted:I have legitimately no idea how, but this book is worse than changing breeds or that gypsy supplement. Let's not says things we're going to regret, here. Edit: Woah, I post slow.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:48 |
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SunAndSpring posted:This book fails on so many loving levels that I feel legitimately concerned for the people that got it funded. Did people even read the loving PDF before they threw in money? Either answer is disappointing. Well, Mummy kept pretty much every aspect of the game secret until the final release, to a degree that makes Exalted Third Edition look like open development, so that pretty much tells you how much Kickstarter funding you can get purely based on OPP's reputation.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:48 |
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tatankatonk posted:Beast doesn't make me want to stop playing nWoD/OPP games. It really, really makes me wish that a bunch of other people would stop playing them, forever. Same here. I'm hoping Beast gets less support than Geist and dies a quiet death.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:53 |
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SunAndSpring posted:This book fails on so many loving levels that I feel legitimately concerned for the people that got it funded. Did people even read the loving PDF before they threw in money? Either answer is disappointing. Hell, the drat product.
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:53 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 18:33 |
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edit: eh, replace this post with "burn it down" and its the same thing, I'm actually running out of ways I can be angry without feeling exhausted
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# ? Jun 8, 2015 01:54 |