|
fritz posted:I haven't read the third one in a long long time, but I re-read the second a couple years ago and it was a lot more mean-spirited and charmless than I remembered. I read all three back to back just a few months ago. I liked them all and would recommend them, but I agree the second was probably the weakest and first definitely the best. Still worth reading all of them though.
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 20:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 15:00 |
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Not as good but definitely worth reading. I think either of them would be well-regarded if Bridge of Birds didn't exist. But since it does, they're like second and third pots of tea made from the same leaves; not bad, but they never recapture that first cup.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 21:49
|
|
|
For those of you who loved The Martian, which I think is all right-thinking people, there's a promo video for the movie that introduces the crew (as Our Hero grapples with complicated video camera technology). They seem to be getting the tone of the book spot-on, which is encouraging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CumZP6_9sHU
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2015 23:00
|
|
|
Prop Wash posted:As a counter-counterpoint I think one of the most compelling things about the Culture is that I don't think we're necessarily supposed to agree with the Culture's warmongering, interventionist standpoint. Consider Phlebas is very upfront about this - the Culture went to war because they feared that their sphere of influence was being challenged by the Idirans. The Player of Games exists entirely because the Culture decides to infiltrate and destabilize a small empire for no reason other than that they disagree with its governance. Excession is in many ways directly critical of the Culture. Perhaps. But in The Player of Games the Empire of Azad is outright psychopathic and brutal and there's no way you can argue that the Culture's "enforced niceness" policy isn't better. The Idirans are religious fanatics with a pathological hatred of the Culture and everything it stands for, and their own mercenary believes that the war was unavoidable because they couldn't stop expanding. Excession is perhaps a little more grey, but the Affront are also aggressive and sadistic and ultimately a force more powerful than the entire Culture is dissuaded from attacking it solely by being given access to the personality of a single Mind, implying that the Culture is a net positive even if it isn't perfect.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 00:59
|
|
|
Look to Windward is all about the Culture loving up spectacularly on a civilizational scale. Use of Weapons is too, but on a far more personal one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 02:00
|
|
|
Jedit posted:I'll counterpoint this by saying I don't think much of the Culture novels in general. The Player of Games is excellent, no dispute about that, but much of the rest is basic SF with a thick pasting of left wing intellectualism. The Culture itself is a post-scarcity socialist utopia run by AIs with godlike intellect - which is why they share all the author's beliefs and prejudices - and as such it suffers the usual problem of stories where the plot is driven by agents beyond human comprehension: the only way to explain the plot is to assume that those agents are correct. Banks did it a lot better than most, it must be said, but I just couldn't get into books where the GUA* I'm Not As Clever As I Think I Am carefully patronises the gently caress out of the protagonists for 400 pages. Prop Wash posted:As a counter-counterpoint I think one of the most compelling things about the Culture is that I don't think we're necessarily supposed to agree with the Culture's warmongering, interventionist standpoint. Consider Phlebas is very upfront about this - the Culture went to war because they feared that their sphere of influence was being challenged by the Idirans. The Player of Games exists entirely because the Culture decides to infiltrate and destabilize a small empire for no reason other than that they disagree with its governance. Excession is in many ways directly critical of the Culture. Jedit posted:Perhaps. But in The Player of Games the Empire of Azad is outright psychopathic and brutal and there's no way you can argue that the Culture's "enforced niceness" policy isn't better. The Idirans are religious fanatics with a pathological hatred of the Culture and everything it stands for, and their own mercenary believes that the war was unavoidable because they couldn't stop expanding. Excession is perhaps a little more grey, but the Affront are also aggressive and sadistic and ultimately a force more powerful than the entire Culture is dissuaded from attacking it solely by being given access to the personality of a single Mind, implying that the Culture is a net positive even if it isn't perfect. Interesting discussion. There's difference between a novelist providing a counterpoint to his thesis/ theme, and a novelist refuting his thesis/theme. Banks is a good enough writer that he tries to show some shades of grey in his utopia but ultimately the Culture is always validated. I still appreciate the Culture novels as a decent socialist rebuttal to the various libertopian SF authors (Heinlein, etc.) but I think Jedit has a point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 03:03
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:Look to Windward is all about the Culture loving up spectacularly on a civilizational scale. Use of Weapons is too, but on a far more personal one. Hydrogen Sonata is about the Culture poking their nose into a place that didn't need poking, wasting a great deal of lives and resources in the process, and accomplishing nothing at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 03:10
|
|
|
Jedit posted:Perhaps. But in The Player of Games the Empire of Azad is outright psychopathic and brutal and there's no way you can argue that the Culture's "enforced niceness" policy isn't better. The Idirans are religious fanatics with a pathological hatred of the Culture and everything it stands for, and their own mercenary believes that the war was unavoidable because they couldn't stop expanding. Excession is perhaps a little more grey, but the Affront are also aggressive and sadistic and ultimately a force more powerful than the entire Culture is dissuaded from attacking it solely by being given access to the personality of a single Mind, implying that the Culture is a net positive even if it isn't perfect. As I recall, the Excession just stopped by to say hello, and buggered off in irritation and alarm when the lesser life-forms started fighting and politicking over it. The Sleeper Service did nothing, even if it looked impressive while doing it. The whole thing was about how the Culture wasn't as enlightened as it thought it was, and the Affront's biggest crime was in being more up-front about their monstrosity (which is largely played as amusing and oddly charming, anyway).
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 03:19
|
|
|
Jedit posted:Perhaps. But in The Player of Games the Empire of Azad is outright psychopathic and brutal and there's no way you can argue that the Culture's "enforced niceness" policy isn't better. The Idirans are religious fanatics with a pathological hatred of the Culture and everything it stands for, and their own mercenary believes that the war was unavoidable because they couldn't stop expanding. Excession is perhaps a little more grey, but the Affront are also aggressive and sadistic and ultimately a force more powerful than the entire Culture is dissuaded from attacking it solely by being given access to the personality of a single Mind, implying that the Culture is a net positive even if it isn't perfect. I think you're right that Banks favors the Culture (i mean he basically says as much in this here interview) but I think the important detail is who he chooses as its enemies: Azad, the Affront, Idir, Veppers (from Surface Detail, who literally owns and operates Hell as a business), the list goes on. So yeah, you can say that the Culture is portrayed as a righteous society that only embraces conflict as a means to a moral end, but I think it's telling that in order to set them up as SOCIALIST UTOPIA Banks chooses to put them up against the most cartoonishly evil villains he can imagine. It's like he implicitly wrote democratic peace theory into the Culture universe, and now we'll never know what would have happened if the Culture went to war with another basically good society. I really like The Hydrogen Sonata because it's a lot more ambiguous about who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are. It's also a really well-told character-driven story.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 03:53
|
|
|
Started and finished Shovel Ready by Adam Sternbergh today. Picked it up because it was mentioned in this thread + I'm still on a detective fiction in a downer/sci-fi atmosphere kick from plowing through The Last Policeman trilogy. Pretty good stuff. Bad(ish) guy who gets roped into doing something relatively good. A hint of mystery to the story, but definitely not detective fiction. The full-immersion virtual world was less interesting than I thought it was going to be, but I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing. At the end of the day, I certainly wasn't wanting more of the virtual world, so what little you see of it I was fine with. Will probably pick up the next book.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 03:56
|
|
|
Prop Wash posted:I think you're right that Banks favors the Culture (i mean he basically says as much in this here interview) but I think the important detail is who he chooses as its enemies: Azad, the Affront, Idir, Veppers (from Surface Detail, who literally owns and operates Hell as a business), the list goes on. So yeah, you can say that the Culture is portrayed as a righteous society that only embraces conflict as a means to a moral end, but I think it's telling that in order to set them up as SOCIALIST UTOPIA Banks chooses to put them up against the most cartoonishly evil villains he can imagine. It's like he implicitly wrote democratic peace theory into the Culture universe, and now we'll never know what would have happened if the Culture went to war with another basically good society. See, I though player of games did a good or at least interesting job of criticizing the imperial leadership of Azad and top down social structure while holding up the more 'earthy' and more... conflicted... lifestyle as an improvement over the Culture's 'homogenized heterogeneity'. If that makes any sense. Maybe it doesn't but that's how I've always thought of it.  I haven't read past Use of Weapons yet so my opinion is liable to change.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 04:24
|
|
|
fritz posted:I haven't read the third one in a long long time, but I re-read the second a couple years ago and it was a lot more mean-spirited and charmless than I remembered. This actually describes quite well how i feel about Consider Phlebas.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 04:38
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:the Affront's biggest crime was in being more up-front about their monstrosity (which is largely played as amusing and oddly charming, anyway).[/spoiler] Yes, but from the perspective of the culture agent who is sort of going native. They're buffoonish and charming because banks wrote them as a send up of British aristocrats playing on tropes we all recognize (also there is a bit of a nod to / mockery of niven's kzin going on) but seriously the affront are the most horrifying group in any of the culture novels, including the pro-hells from surface detail.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 05:20
|
|
|
Kalenn Istarion posted:See, I though player of games did a good or at least interesting job of criticizing the imperial leadership of Azad and top down social structure while holding up the more 'earthy' and more... conflicted... lifestyle as an improvement over the Culture's 'homogenized heterogeneity'. If that makes any sense. Maybe it doesn't but that's how I've always thought of it. But again, that's because of the point of view of the character experiencing it. The Culture would never create a game as sweeping and glorious as Azad because they have nothing with which to imbue it with meaning. When nothing can be truly gained or lost, gambling and competition are pale shadows of what we experience them as. To the Morat, this is something of a shame, but to literally anyone else he looks insane, like he has a masochistic need to be deprived of something so that he can struggle to get it back. Which the benevolent Culture, of course, gently tries to cure him of. If anything is a ding against the Culture, i'd think it's how culturites all tend to go native if you leave them sitting out for too long.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 05:37
|
|
|
I started reading this book the other day called (R)evolution by somebody I can't remember and man it is just AWFUL. With stuff like overly detailed character descriptions and product name dropping like the author was getting paid for it. All in all the book comes off as really amateurish and is in dire need of another editing pass. Like a better (or any) editor would have told the author not to spend so much time on detailed descriptions of the three people in the opening scene who carry out the terrorist attack as they're dead by the end of the prologue.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 12:44
|
|
|
Prop Wash posted:So yeah, you can say that the Culture is portrayed as a righteous society that only embraces conflict as a means to a moral end, but I think it's telling that in order to set them up as SOCIALIST UTOPIA Banks chooses to put them up against the most cartoonishly evil villains he can imagine. It's like he implicitly wrote democratic peace theory into the Culture universe, and now we'll never know what would have happened if the Culture went to war with another basically good society. Although there's the Excession artifact, which I guess led to something akin to a civil war, if you count that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 14:44
|
|
|
Kesper North posted:For those of you who loved The Martian, which I think is all right-thinking people, there's a promo video for the movie that introduces the crew (as Our Hero grapples with complicated video camera technology). They seem to be getting the tone of the book spot-on, which is encouraging: So pumped for this. This might be in my head but I kind of feel like Matt Damon is channeling the audio book narrator's voice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 14:57
|
|
|
Green Crayons posted:Started and finished Shovel Ready by Adam Sternbergh today. You should check out Chasm City if you want some more dark sci-fi hardboiled detective-ish fiction. It's set in Reynolds's Revelation Space world, and I guess it's sort of the second book in the series, but it's basically a standalone that doesn't require having read any of his other stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 16:37
|
|
|
Zaphiel posted:I just finished Bridge of Birds last night and it was awesome. I found out that there are two more books in the series, are they any good? I didn't see any mention of them here. I marathonned all three a couple of months ago, and yes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
Here's an official trailer for The Martian. I'm a little disconcerted by how prevalent the Earth/NASA bits are in this, considering I hated all those scenes in the book. Hopefully the movie itself is more Watney-focused. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue4PCI0NamI
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 19:18
|
|
|
Kesper North posted:For those of you who loved The Martian, which I think is all right-thinking people, there's a promo video for the movie that introduces the crew (as Our Hero grapples with complicated video camera technology). They seem to be getting the tone of the book spot-on, which is encouraging: Yeah I'm a huge fan. edit: gently caress was too excited to read the rest of the thread.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2015 19:57
|
|
|
Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:Here's an official trailer for The Martian. I'm a little disconcerted by how prevalent the Earth/NASA bits are in this, considering I hated all those scenes in the book. Hopefully the movie itself is more Watney-focused. I'm not a fan of Damon, but I'm going to see this. Please don't suck!
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 00:26
|
|
|
Megazver posted:I prefer individual books because it's more satisfying to reach the 100% of book each time you finish one. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:43
|
|
|
Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:Here's an official trailer for The Martian. I'm a little disconcerted by how prevalent the Earth/NASA bits are in this, considering I hated all those scenes in the book. Hopefully the movie itself is more Watney-focused. Whoops I didn't pay enough attention this first time I watched the trailer and it actually looks very similar to how it goes down in the books although it seems like the Hermes might find out earlier in the film than the book? Pretty hyped for this, glad to see Jeff Daniels (maybe he can make the NASA parts suck less). my bony fealty fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jun 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 03:40
|
|
|
I watched Space Cowboys the other day and I couldn't stop thinking about how bad William Devane's polyester shirt must have smelled since he wasn't wearing an undershirt the entire time Thanks for reading
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 03:54
|
|
|
PINING 4 PORKINS posted:I watched Space Cowboys the other day and I couldn't stop thinking about how bad William Devane's polyester shirt must have smelled since he wasn't wearing an undershirt the entire time off topic, this is the the stinky clothes IN BOOKS thread, movies is over there ===> everyone else plz keep posting ur fave stinky clothes IN BOOKS ONLY!!!
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 06:48
|
|
|
Kesper North posted:For those of you who loved The Martian, which I think is all right-thinking people, there's a promo video for the movie that introduces the crew (as Our Hero grapples with complicated video camera technology). They seem to be getting the tone of the book spot-on, which is encouraging: I'm having one issue with the movie: For some reason I imagined Watley as African-American. Which Matt Damon very much isn't. Otherwise it looks really good (which isn't a surprise given Ridley Scott).
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 09:14
|
|
|
Decius posted:I'm having one issue with the movie: For some reason I imagined Watley as African-American. Which Matt Damon very much isn't. Otherwise it looks really good (which isn't a surprise given Ridley Scott). South African-American.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 10:02
|
|
|
At least the source material looks good and the characters won't be incompetent lunatics like in Prometheus.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 11:05
|
|
|
Dear lord, Kaleidoscope Century is the most bleakly, unrelentingly unpleasant books to read since the first book in Donaldson's Gap series. Two principal characters, each of whom I hated more than the other and kept wanting them to die just to stop their unrepentant sociopathies. A *good* read, but a distinctly unpleasant one. Are the remainder in this series as difficult to get through? And I didn't read the first one, Orbital Resonance. Is that one worth reading? What's it about?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 17:10
|
|
|
Phanatic posted:Dear lord, Kaleidoscope Century is the most bleakly, unrelentingly unpleasant books to read since the first book in Donaldson's Gap series. Two principal characters, each of whom I hated more than the other and kept wanting them to die just to stop their unrepentant sociopathies. Orbital Resonance is about two kids saving a space colony. It's pretty good. The other one, I forget what it's called, is bleak-but-less-bleak-than-KaleidoscopeCentury, but I do get a kick out of the Comsat Angels reference every time. (See: Real Genius soundtrack.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 17:34
|
|
|
Decius posted:I'm having one issue with the movie: For some reason I imagined Watley as African-American. Which Matt Damon very much isn't. Otherwise it looks really good (which isn't a surprise given Ridley Scott). I just listened to the audiobook the other day, almost certainly should have gone with the print version, because a lot of the list-formatted stuff was really really annoying in a measured speaking tone. As far as the imagined race of our hero, I feel like the entire "Pirate ninjas" section of random goofy guy stuff (also almost certainly more insufferable spoken than as text) was whiter than swim team. Though now I am also cringing at the concept of slightly AAVE inflected narration, to go with the other accented portions for Kapoor and Ng. Slo-Tek fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jun 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 19:02
|
|
|
Yeah I read the text and definitely got a "white dork" impression. I was sort of hoping that gets toned down for the screen version actually.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 19:48
|
|
|
Welp, gently caress Tor I guess. http://review.gawker.com/americas-largest-sci-fi-publisher-gives-in-to-reactiona-1710069386
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 22:17
|
|
|
Yeah... I haven't followed this whole thing too closely but calling people nazis when they haven't gone full Manson and saying books your employer publishes land on the range of "bad-to-reprehensible " probably isn't very smart. Basically, what Eric Flint posted: http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2015/06/08/in-defense-of-the-sad-puppies/#more-6351
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 23:01
|
|
|
e: this is not worth it
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 23:10
|
|
|
Popular Human posted:Welp, gently caress Tor I guess. I like none of these people.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 23:47
|
|
|
Decius posted:I'm having one issue with the movie: For some reason I imagined Watley as African-American. Which Matt Damon very much isn't. Otherwise it looks really good (which isn't a surprise given Ridley Scott). Why would they go through all that trouble to bring back a black dude? Jokes aside, what gave you that impression? Popular Human posted:Welp, gently caress Tor I guess. Actually they are remaining morally/ethically consistent, nothing wrong here, move along. I mean, this is how far gone the Left is, ready at a moment's notice to turn on anything they once held in respect. It's petty and I think you need to be more objective in your assertions. General Emergency posted:Yeah... I haven't followed this whole thing too closely but calling people nazis when they haven't gone full Manson and saying books your employer publishes land on the range of "bad-to-reprehensible " probably isn't very smart. Yup this thehomemaster fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Jun 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2015 00:45
|
|
|
Look guys, the truth is somewhere in the middle. On one side we have people who rally behind Vox Day, who thinks black people are subhuman, and on the other we have those SJWSJWSJWSJWSJWSJWSJWSJWSJWSJWSJWSJWSJs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2015 01:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 15:00 |
|
|
"The Left".
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2015 01:17
|
|
