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Pope Guilty posted:Hey do Heroes also hunt other supernaturals or only the supernaturals who are totes the moral superior of the rest of the world I haven't read the section personally but from what I've read of other people they will actually work together with the other splats if they think it will help them kill a Beast. Depending on the splat the other end of the equation may or may not like the Hero, but the Hero is pretty much open to working with anything that isn't a Beast. Like, they will even full on sell their soul to a Demon, giving their entire being to them to use as Cover, because they see it as a worthwhile sacrifice if it means getting one Beast killed.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:34
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tatankatonk posted:Melanie is a badass. I would play this character in a heartbeat. What the hell is wrong with someone who fought back against her attacker, won, and now quests to return to her family by fighting the horrors that put her in hell? I mean gently caress, who doesn't want to play a magical dream knight fighting their way out of hell? Night10194 fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 05:34
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Pope Guilty posted:that fuckin' bitch trying to get back what was stolen from her and trying to get home to her body! she deserves to be in a neverending nightmare of a coma dream! If she'd just let herself be victimized none of this would've happened! That poster goes on to say (around page 12) that Beasts cannot be considered abusers by a conventional meaning of the word.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:36
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 ^^^^^^^^^ Night10194 posted:I would play this character in a heartbeat. What the hell is wrong with someone who fought back against her attacker, won, and now quests to return to her family by fighting the horrors that put her in hell? I think you mean fighting the totes awesome dudes who were just doing their thing because a Beast's desire to hurt people is 100% more important, valid, and defensible than peoples' irrelevant, arrogant, and frankly RUDE desire not to be hurt.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:36
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don't worry, melanie is going to grow up to be a TERF or racist or something, so it's all ok!
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Jun 8, 2015 05:37
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Effectronica posted:don't worry, melanie is going to grow up to be a TERF or racist or something, so it's all ok! If she didn't hate black people and geek girls she would've never tried to defend herslf in the first place!
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Jun 8, 2015 05:38
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Night10194 posted:I would play this character in a heartbeat. What the hell is wrong with someone who fought back against her attacker, won, and now quests to return to her family by fighting the horrors that put her in hell? That's what's wrong! She didn't lie down and sympathise with the poor widdle Beast, who just wanted take what was rightfully theirs! But seriously though, Hunter: Beasthunters/Dream Commandos would own so much.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:38
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So, towards the end of that rpg.net thread, things get.... worse.quote:
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quote:Preying on the fear caused by that honesty is monstrous. quote:I would argue that it's no more monstrous than the way humans treat the animals we eat, though. Cue an entire page of poo poo I'm not going to requote. quote:So humans are worse than animals, because we're better than animals, so when we aren't better than animals that makes us terrible, while animals get a pass for being terrible because they're animals.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:39
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The real question is "Just how awesome would a Hero/Shaunkshen duo be?"
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Jun 8, 2015 05:39
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CommissarMega posted:That's what's wrong! She didn't lie down and sympathise with the poor widdle Beast, who just wanted take what was rightfully theirs! Goddammit now I have to watch Nightmare on Elm Street 3 again. (this is never a bad thing)
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Jun 8, 2015 05:40
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i dunno why people aren't quoting the other rpg.net thread where people argue about whether it would be okay to poison and strangle an adult for stealing candy from children "Also, as others have pointed out, Brent reads a lot more as an adult, or at least "old enough to know better", rather than another child. I'd actually missed that on my first reading of the passage, but he's described as a "young man", and always in terms that set him apart from the children he victimized. It's always "Children" or "Youngsters", not "other Children", "fellow Youngsters", etc. The "Brent's house" argument is weak, and it could stand to either be explicit that this isn't a child she's targeting, or explicit that this is supposed to be deeply uncomfortable and wrong (Possibly with trigger warnings attached to the book), but not getting the same visceral "the authors are evil bastards" vibe some of you seem to be getting off of it."
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Jun 8, 2015 05:43
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Effectronica posted:i dunno why people aren't quoting the other rpg.net thread where people argue about whether it would be okay to poison and strangle an adult for stealing candy from children Oh my god, they're literally arguing over whether it's okay for a fairytale monster to prosecute a juvenile as an adult.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:44
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'Young man' might not necessarily mean a 20 year-old dude, it might as well refer to a 16-18 year-old. But hell, a middle-aged man stealing candy from kids deserves a stern-talking to and maybe some shaming on social media at most, not being suffocated and then mind-raped into being a sociopath that you kill for bonus XP.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:45
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How would I build Shrek and his nemesis, Lord Farquad, in Beast: the Primordial?
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Jun 8, 2015 05:45
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Thinking about it, the other thing that separates Beasts from Vampires is that you can take blood from someone without killing them, but all of a Beast's methods for feeding seem like the kind of thing that could give you PTSD and gently caress you up for life.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:47
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Kellsterik posted:How would I build Shrek and his nemesis, Lord Farquad, in Beast: the Primordial? Farquad is the beast, I don't know what kind, some kind of reverse-collector? Shrek is the hero trying to bring him down. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 05:48
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This book is probably going to be the litmus test for recruiting new players for years to come. "What do you think of Beast" and if the immediate reaction isn't visceral disgust then run.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:50
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Kurieg posted:I want to smack this person. So I take it literally autistic (or close to it) people are the ones missing the entire problem with Beast then? Or at least taking part in the Beast defense force? I assume the type of people who willingly know they're being awful have the sense to shut up and know full well they're playing abusers with no need to justify it, but I could be wrong.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:52
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Cabbit posted:This book is probably going to be the litmus test for recruiting new players for years to come. Every cloud has a silver lining.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:52
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So would it be better just to use Beast as a sourcebook for antagonists? Because that's the feeling I'm getting from this book.Cabbit posted:This book is probably going to be the litmus test for recruiting new players for years to come. So Beast is going to become the new version of chapters 1 and 2 of the 2e Infernal Exalted splatbook.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:53
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It would be best not to use Beast at all, because it adds nothing to the nWoD as things stand (beyond an Astral Realm that nobody cares about) and you can replicate just about anything involving Beasts with other lines.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:55
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Mormon Star Wars posted:Thinking about it, the other thing that separates Beasts from Vampires is that you can take blood from someone without killing them, but all of a Beast's methods for feeding seem like the kind of thing that could give you PTSD and gently caress you up for life. Xelkelvos posted:So I take it literally autistic (or close to it) people are the ones missing the entire problem with Beast then? Or at least taking part in the Beast defense force? I highly doubt they're actually autistic, mostly because they self identified and used it as a defense of their actions. Cause how dare you argue with a poor autistic person, they know not what they do... Oh no, I'm the hero now. Cabbit posted:This book is probably going to be the litmus test for recruiting new players for years to come. If someone asks to play a beast in a crossover game just kick them right the gently caress out of the group.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:58
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A player apping a character that makes everyone else uncomfortable and then pushing it in disturbing directions is the realist description of like half the IRL WoD groups I've ever played in, so I will give Beast kudos for portraying it accurately. edit: love the new title
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Jun 8, 2015 05:59
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So there's another thread on RPG.net with a poll for their opinion on Beast and the kickstarter preview. Just a little more than half (53%) didn't like it, more than a quarter (29%) like it or saw no problem and 12% saw only minor, fixable problems. Another post summing up the big audiences and reactions:quote:One thing that I find interesting about the response to Beast is that every forum but the OP forums dislikes it strongly, and rpg.net is divided, but all for different reasons. The people who dislike it here dislike it because of the whole MRA: the Victim Blaming thing, and because it's horribly written. /tg/ hates it because of muh SJW's and because it's horribly written. It also has approximately two posters who like it, which is the third most that I've seen, ironically enough. SomethingAwful dislikes it because it excuses domestic abuse, and because it's horribly written. Sufficient Velocity hasn't actually discussed it much, mostly because everyone agrees that it's horrible and thus has no reason to talk about it.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:02
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I'm a pretty big fan of RPG.net in general, but the attempts to defend Beast, by much of the mod staff no less, is really hurting my desire to remain there.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:02
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tatankatonk posted:I spend money on Onyx Path products and nWoD is the game i'd recommend if someone new to the hobby asked me what I thought they would have the most fun playing. This is probably the first time I've felt this way, but I really would like a statement from someone from the company saying this offensive material is a mistake, or a one-off that won't get any further support, or something. I just don't think we'll get it, or at least we won't get it from McFarland, who is the public face of this project. If Exalted is anything to go by they will promise an apology but only after the Kickstarter is done, with the reasoning being that to apologize during the Kickstarter would be an obvious pandering for cash. Then they will offer a trite "sorry you were offended" and pretend nothing happened at all.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:03
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Omnicrom posted:So Beast is going to become the new version of chapters 1 and 2 of the 2e Infernal Exalted splatbook. It's worse; Infernals added a lot to Exalted, and Chapters 1&2™ were disjointed enough that they could easily be removed without affecting much. Infernals also presented a whole new paradigm to Exalted- where the Solars and other splats were all about being a shinier human, Infernals were all about transcending the human condition to be come something else. Beast? It's all about being an rear end in a top hat. Seriously, when your sample antagonists range from nerd, to MRA nightmare, to teenage girl in a coma questing through the Realm of Nightmare to get home to her parents, you're either a pissant threat or butt buddies with the True Fae.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:05
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Calde posted:If Exalted is anything to go by they will promise an apology but only after the Kickstarter is done, with the reasoning being that to apologize during the Kickstarter would be an obvious pandering for cash. Then they will offer a trite "sorry you were offended" and pretend nothing happened at all. The Exalted devs seem to be in their own little hosed up universe seperate from the WOD devs most of the time, and Rose Bailey previously gave a legitimate apology for Scion 1e so I'm holding out hope in spite of things.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:06
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Daeren posted:The Exalted devs seem to be in their own little hosed up universe seperate from the WOD devs most of the time, and Rose Bailey previously gave a legitimate apology for Scion 1e so I'm holding out hope in spite of things. My existing impression of Rose Bailey doesn't jibe with her being okay with Beast as it stands, so I guess I'm surprised it got to this point without her putting her foot down. Or maybe she doesn't have the power within the company I thought she had.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:12
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Xelkelvos posted:So I take it literally autistic (or close to it) people are the ones missing the entire problem with Beast then? Or at least taking part in the Beast defense force? Sure, autistic people are among the people who like Beast, but autistic people also include, (by their own admission) Lord Raziere, who thinks Beasts are unpalatable, and myself, who thinks BtP was conceptually weak to start with and has found the execution to be bad for basically all the reasons mentioned in this thread. I don't really think Beast has much of an inherent appeal to autistics. That game, if any, would be Promethean, the game about playing someone who is trying to fit into a society that has arcane and arbitrary rules and find you somewhat unsettling to talk to. Beast is more of a generic outsider revenge power-fantasy, about being an outsider and being righteous when you beat up your bullies precisely because of your outsider-ness. To some degree, autistic people may see an appeal in that - revenge on people who bullied them, but not particularly moreso than goths or other demographics WW/OPP has targeted before.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:16
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Xelkelvos posted:So there's another thread on RPG.net with a poll for their opinion on Beast and the kickstarter preview. Just a little more than half (53%) didn't like it, more than a quarter (29%) like it or saw no problem and 12% saw only minor, fixable problems. Another post summing up the big audiences and reactions: Surprisingly, Reddit doesn't seem to be discussing it at all beyond the KS announcement.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:20
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LatwPIAT posted:Beast is more of a generic outsider revenge power-fantasy, about being an outsider and being righteous when you beat up your bullies precisely because of your outsider-ness. To some degree, autistic people may see an appeal in that - revenge on people who bullied them, but not particularly moreso than goths or other demographics WW/OPP has targeted before. So basically Christian Chandler would love this game.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:21
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CommissarMega posted:It's worse; Infernals added a lot to Exalted, and Chapters 1&2™ were disjointed enough that they could easily be removed without affecting much. Infernals also presented a whole new paradigm to Exalted- where the Solars and other splats were all about being a shinier human, Infernals were all about transcending the human condition to be come something else. I was talking specifically about the idea of Beast being a litmus test of bad players actually, though it's not like absolutely anything you've said is wrong here.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:36
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Omnicrom posted:I was talking specifically about the idea of Beast being a litmus test of bad players actually, though it's not like absolutely anything you've said is wrong here. The equivilent of someone asking to play a Malkavian or Pooka in oWoD.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:37
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I know a few die-hard oWoD players who would totally love Beast. I know I really don't like it and want to stay away from it. All this talk got me to leaf through my old copy of Promethean (got it first printing, with the little brain that I subsequently lost) and IT IS SO GOOD! Even the intro fiction is great. It's just... How? How did no one notice that this game would get the reactions it's getting? How did no one look at Kinship and realize how much the fans of other games would hate it? Actually, the last one is the question I find myself coming back to. The rest I can sort-of understand. But the crossover? It's textbook Poochie!
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Jun 8, 2015 06:48
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is that Yahtzee Yahtzee is a "Hero" My opinion of Beast has changed. I get Beast. I get Beast. I get Beast. Spite:the Dickering is the best game to play once and never again that I've ever seen, and if they get the tone into a perfect mix of tails got trolled, freep.text, and tumble.text yes yes yes! Oh wow! Shame Yahtzee turned out to be a dick, but oh well, dragons gotta drag on. quote:teenage girl in a coma questing through the Realm of Nightmare to get home to her parents Man. gently caress Beast. Every time I I would loving love to have a character graduate from stupid Heroes and then get killed by a sympathetic/cool Hero in a twist ending where the ST takes revenge on I/ my fellow players for making them run Beast. I eagerly await confirmation that Beast isn't meant to be a two way street of Tomb of Horror level work of dickery intended as initiation for a new generation of WoD players. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 06:49
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Soonmot posted:The equivilent of someone asking to play a Malkavian or Pooka in oWoD. Hey, don't lump in Malkavians with Pooka. It's possible to play a cool Malkavian character, and only between half and two-thirds fo Malkavian players are terrible!
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Jun 8, 2015 06:50
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Kurieg posted:A beast feeding from you takes away a point of integrity. That's a much bigger thing than losing a point of blood. And I love the people claiming that beasts are better than Uratha. A Werewolf randomly hunting humans for no reason is violating at least two tenets of the litany, four or five at the high end depending on what the gently caress they're doing. Does a beast feeding take away a point of Integrity for sure? If there's a rule for that I'd like to see it, I thought it just provoked a roll on the Breaking Someone's Psyche table. I can't believe I had to type that but here we are.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:53
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I want to believe Matt has some secret loving plan that no one else can see but I thought that about Ex3 as well.
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Jun 8, 2015 06:53
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Xelkelvos posted:So I take it literally autistic (or close to it) people are the ones missing the entire problem with Beast then? Or at least taking part in the Beast defense force? I'm autistic, and from what I read about Beast's lack of self-awareness, it does seem pretty bad in the excerpts if Beasts are meant to be the 'heroes.' Edit: Also, what LatwPIAT said. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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