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Also provoking a psychological meltdown in someone rates far ahead of a breach of trust that has no other negative impacts on its victim. And Kat's response made it pretty clear how offended she was(n't)
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Jun 8, 2015 20:30
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EmmyOk posted:That was not the joke, do not worry! I've only read a few of the original stories but didn't really like them because I am uncultured scum.
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Jun 8, 2015 20:39
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Mercury Hat posted:Whatever the court's deal is, it's hard to say what it wants to accomplish with the actual education of its students. Like, why the heck are the forest students studying orbital mechanics? Because the forest students are all secretly Kerbals. 
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Jun 8, 2015 20:44
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I've posted this before, but in real life, the professional, peer-reviewed consensus is that even when a kid is genuinely failing, you do things like give them tutoring, or catch-up classes, or really anything other than holding them back to avoid the child from doing things like falling into a vicious spiral of self-loathing, social isolation, and public humiliation. I think we've moved on from this particular argument, but talking about how much people actually need math misses the point.
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Jun 8, 2015 20:46
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Fister Roboto posted:I'll keep this in mind next time people are whining about abuse apologists. LMFAO you're still not over that Pinstripe Hourglass fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 20:49
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Josef bugman posted:Look at it this way, Annie is clearly bright, why not let her make it up by giving her additional work to do during the time period. Not least of which you can't cheat at S.A.T.S tests (which is the only ones she would be sitting at the moment prior to G.C.S.E) because you do them in a big hall on your own. I bet she could use ethervision to wander around and look at what the other people are writing.
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Jun 8, 2015 20:58
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Consider Maslow's hierarchy of needs as a comparison. Where exactly does this breach of trust fall when you deal with the injustice that founded the Court, violence and danger that can't be contained, or what Annie's life has become? When Kat immediately forgives Annie, it's because she recognises exactly what's at stake. I was talking in terms of Annie's actions. Failing academic standards pales in comparison to abusing your best friend's trust. The fact that Kat forgives her so easily makes it hard for me to sympathize with either of them as characters.
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Jun 8, 2015 20:58
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You guys ought to put him on your ignore list. You aren't accomplishing anything by talking to him.
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Jun 8, 2015 21:01
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but he's trolling on the internet
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Jun 8, 2015 21:09
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Cat Mattress posted:I bet she could use ethervision to wander around and look at what the other people are writing. Which comes back to the point of "maybe the literal fire witch already has her career path laid out for her and grading her on things that don't help with being a literal fire witch is counterproductive" But that's more of an institutional problem than anything else, isn't it ↓ You're right, that is the best and sanest solution, which is precisely why the Court will never allow it 
Rasamune fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 21:22
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At the risk of sounding like South Park, maybe there's a middle ground between "am fire witch, am need no hyoo-man school" and "publically shame this girl and take her away from her entire peer group". At the very least, I dunno, some decent therapists? Or is that expecting too much for the Court to provide for a girl whose mother died, whose father abandoned her without a word for multiple years, and who has nearly died several times. (I guess psychiatry isn't STEM enough.)
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Jun 8, 2015 21:32
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therapist? she has jones
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Jun 8, 2015 21:32
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No, there can be no middle ground, because South Park.
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Jun 8, 2015 21:33
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whats that FisterRoboto? Little Timmys stuck in a well? Well sucks to be him, as I can't see what your saying, and thus cannot respond. See how nice it is to not have to hear dumbasses?
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Jun 8, 2015 22:45
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Don't talk to Fister Roboto. He's a known abuse apologist
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Jun 8, 2015 22:51
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thechosenone posted:whats that FisterRoboto? Little Timmys stuck in a well? Well sucks to be him, as I can't see what your saying, and thus cannot respond. hahahaha
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Jun 8, 2015 23:04
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I've never been owned this hard in my life, god drat.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:08
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Freudian posted:At the risk of sounding like South Park, maybe there's a middle ground between "am fire witch, am need no hyoo-man school" and "publically shame this girl and take her away from her entire peer group". At the very least, I dunno, some decent therapists? Or is that expecting too much for the Court to provide for a girl whose mother died, whose father abandoned her without a word for multiple years, and who has nearly died several times. (I guess psychiatry isn't STEM enough.) No one is really suggesting that Annie should have been completely let off the hook, we're all just agreeing that Anthony's approach is flawed in hundreds of ways, except for one idiot, and thus all arguments about the situation are made in opposition to his points.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:16
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Fister Roboto posted:I've never been owned this hard in my life, god drat. You have received unfair abuse and I shall make no apology of it.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:59
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Donnie's eyes are missing. What did you do with his eyes, Tony? What did you do?
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Jun 9, 2015 01:06
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thechosenone posted:whats that FisterRoboto? Little Timmys stuck in a well? Well sucks to be him, as I can't see what your saying, and thus cannot respond. shut up Fister Roboto posted:I was talking in terms of Annie's actions. Failing academic standards pales in comparison to abusing your best friend's trust. The fact that Kat forgives her so easily makes it hard for me to sympathize with either of them as characters. The way I took it was that Kat forgave her so easily because of the circumstances where it came out. Like if it happened out of the blue one day and the court decided "You know what? It's time to get this teen in gear before she seriously hurts herself/others, let's stop being so lenient about her cheating/punishment skipping" and exposed it and Kat still had the same reaction, then sure I'd understand the whole thing feeling flimsy. But the cheating came out from Annie's dad after he embarrassed her after seeing her for the first time in years, while Kat only stepped in to say she didn't really care about it when she overheard Anthony say he was about to take what had been her best friend out of her life. I mean yeah Annie just violated her trust and all but cheating off of her homework isn't like a best-friendship ending offense most of the time. At any rate, probably not something that would make you continue to dislike a person who was your bff ten seconds ago while you eavesdrop on her absentee dad aggressively loving up her life. And at that age (which is what, like 14 or something?), yeah, holding someone back a year is practically ruining their life forever in their eyes.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:17
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Like some people were saying upthread, most people don't use the stuff they learn in school later in life. You don't need to remember how to complete the square or who the gently caress Marco Polo was; if you ever cared, you could look it up and/or figure it out. But that doesn't mean that Annie can just blow off school and that's okay. This effortpost is for the people upthread who, in all seriousness, thought that it was okay for Annie to cheat and essentially blow off half of high school because she had other things going on (i.e. mediumhood). Fister Roboto is right about that poo poo, at least, and here's why. (Sorry for the wall of text; I give a huge poo poo about education.) There's two reasons why all that poo poo you won't need to know is still important to learn in high school. First, and most simple answer: practice. School is for learning how to learn. You might not remember Newton's Second Law in twenty years' time, but you need to learn how to solve problems, to think critically, to reason logically, and to figure out how to do things you've never done before. That's why there are such things as "elective" classes - the school wants you to learn SOMETHING, they don't give a poo poo WHAT. They want you to practice learning. And if you're learning photography, or wood shop, or a foreign language - they don't give a poo poo. Anything to exercise your brain. Of course, there are certain courses that they do, in fact, make everyone take - a couple years of math, some english lang/lit, history, etc. This is for the second reason. Up above, I said that "most" people didn't use that information later in life. Well, it turns out, when you're fifteen you're pretty lovely at predicting what you want to be doing when you're twenty-five. Some kids want to take math, some don't; some of the kids will need advanced math ten years down the line, some won't. The problem is that those two groupings are not the same. For example, I have a coworker who is 33 years old. He blew off math when he was young, behaved generally hooligan-ly through his early twenties, and then suddenly realized that he was an adult and math was awesome and he had missed out on a decade of opportunities. He's just finished community college, where he was taking multivariable calculus, and is transferring to a university where he is going to study engineering. When he was in school, he would have loved to not have to take math; he was one of those kids constantly asking "when are we going to use this in real life?" He may have had other strengths in school, I don't know, but that's no reason to let him fail math. If the system hadn't failed him by allowing him to fail math and science, he'd be much better equipped to achieve his adult dream of being an engineer. So that's why it's important that high schoolers get a wide breadth of education. It may seem cruel to force something on students when 90% of them won't ever use it again, but it's even crueler to not force it on the 10% who will. For those two reasons, it's important that Annie actually accomplish her math and physics work. For those reasons, the cheating should have been stopped as soon as anyone noticed it. You can't just let a student learn to cheat and copy instead of learning to think, and you can't just let a student's skills wither away, no matter what their destiny seems like now. Just because Annie finds medium-ing to be important and math to be unimportant now, doesn't mean that she won't regret that ten years down the line. The court may have noticed it and not cared; this makes them deficient as a school and as care-givers to children. Now that it's been a whole year, it's more complicated. Anthony's solution is also ridiculous, for the reasons many in this thread have noticed. Becoming a pariah at age 14/15 or however the gently caress old she is is unacceptable. Holding someone back a year is a surefire way to stunt their education even further. Anthony might mean well in this regard, but he's an idiot if he thinks he's helping his daughter. Furthermore, the way he instituted this plan was downright abusive (this sentence is where I depart from agreement with Fister Roboto). There are better solutions. Summer school would have been great, if it weren't for the fact that Anthony showed up too late for that. At the very least, for most of her classes, she should have stayed with her classmates. With math, that'd be hard, because of the way math builds on itself; she could maybe go to the math class for the previous year. For all her classes, she could make up for lost time with summer school or private tutelage. tl;dr: Multiple choice question: what should be done about Annie's cheating? a. ignore it and let annie be a dumb butt who can't do high school math b. isolate her from her friends and force her to become a math-robot [c.] literally anything the gently caress else
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Jun 9, 2015 01:20
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Holy crap, 70 posts overni- oh, Fister Roboto's posting again.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:21
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YF-23, come in YF-23, over.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:24
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I mean in the end I think the root of the issue is that Anthony is completely putting the blame on his daughter for her problems, happy to pass judgment, when the fact is he was never there to help her. And now that he is there, the first thing he does is punish her rather than help her through it. Sure, Antimony deserves some blame for what she did, but if he hadn't just dropped her off at the court days after her mother's death, maybe she wouldn't have had to resort to cheating. Hell, what kind of schooling did she even get before coming to the Court, anyway? She lived in a hospital. Maybe her deficiencies in math are a result of her being incapable of going to school and her father being too busy looking after Surma to properly homeschool her.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:26
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sorry I feel asleep what were we arguing aboutFister Roboto posted:Yeah it would be really interesting and not at all a cliche for all of Annie's friends to team up to beat the badguy. Oh gently caress you've exposed me... i actually hope that the last scene of the last panel is Annie turning into a car and driving Kat off into the sunset while the court burns
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Jun 9, 2015 01:31
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Today's strip made it easy for me to imagine Tony without the scars and realize how young he would still look without them. I mean if all these kids are teens their parents could definitely still be in their thirties.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:47
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T-man posted:Donnie's eyes are missing. Eh, they do that sometimes  Anja's initial approach to tony in this strip is yet another indicator that he has changed a lot, she knew him and was expecting something else. Donald seems to be more up to date on what's up.
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Jun 9, 2015 02:08
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BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Jun 9, 2015 02:10
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Thesaurasaurus posted:I like how faded and bleached Annie's silhouette looks in the first panel without an outline. when Anja is really forcing her smile she looks kinda like the happy mask salesman
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Jun 9, 2015 02:11
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Here's a rush job to show Tony sans what I am pretty sure are all scars (and not wrinkles/stress/age lines) at this point: 
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Jun 9, 2015 02:17
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The Red Queen posted:Here's a rush job to show Tony sans what I am pretty sure are all scars (and not wrinkles/stress/age lines) at this point: Anthony Carver posted:I believe in taking care of myself and a balanced diet and rigorous exercise routine. In the morning if my face is a little puffy I'll put on an ice pack while doing stomach crunches. I can do 1000 now. After I remove the ice pack I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb-mint facial mask which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion.
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Jun 9, 2015 02:20
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No wonder he hates Annie. All that hard work for naught. How's he supposed to find her a stepmom now?
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Jun 9, 2015 02:22
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I like how angry Donnie is. Like how I can almost hear the little ticking clock inside his head counting down to "Tell oldest friend to get the hell out of my house".
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Jun 9, 2015 02:23
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DontMockMySmock posted:Furthermore, the way he instituted this plan was downright abusive (this sentence is where I depart from agreement with Fister Roboto). Amazing post, but this is not something that I have ever said.
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Jun 9, 2015 04:02
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Fister Roboto posted:Amazing post, but this is not something that I have ever said. Well, not in so many words. But you chimed in to defend other posters who were saying that Anthony wasn't abusive. Then, rather than clarifying by saying "i actually agree that anthony is abusive," you have said a few times "i didn't say 'anthony isn't abusive'," which is technically correct but still really weird. Long story short, you didn't "say" it, but you drat well convinced me that you think it.
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Jun 9, 2015 05:05
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The Red Queen posted:No wonder he hates Annie. All that hard work for naught. How's he supposed to find her a stepmom now? Through a set of hilarious hijinx and misunderstandings on the path to true love, of course! Gunnerkrigg Court: Rom Com edition.
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Jun 9, 2015 06:08
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Fister Roboto posted:I was talking in terms of Annie's actions. Failing academic standards pales in comparison to abusing your best friend's trust. The fact that Kat forgives her so easily makes it hard for me to sympathize with either of them as characters. Are you actually autistic Are you a fleshy robot that can process only the value of academia beep boop
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Jun 9, 2015 06:29
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Captain Oblivious posted:Are you actually autistic It has nothing to do with academia. Trust is extremely important to me. I wouldn't have done the same thing in her shoes. Thanks for bringing in the autistic robot beep boop bullshit because I feel differently about things than you though. DontMockMySmock posted:Well, not in so many words. But you chimed in to defend other posters who were saying that Anthony wasn't abusive. Then, rather than clarifying by saying "i actually agree that anthony is abusive," you have said a few times "i didn't say 'anthony isn't abusive'," which is technically correct but still really weird. Long story short, you didn't "say" it, but you drat well convinced me that you think it. Whether or not he's abusive is something I'd prefer not to argue about. Is that OK?
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Jun 9, 2015 06:39
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Fister Roboto posted:It has nothing to do with academia. Trust is extremely important to me. I wouldn't have done the same thing in her shoes. Do you believe that withholding forgiveness would have been a productive course of action at that particular moment in time? Do you believe anyone would have been better off for it?
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Jun 9, 2015 06:41
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