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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Pick your words better, Obama: On the subject of fighting ISIS --"We don't yet have a complete strategy'.  Amergin posted:Considering the White House has been trying to tout "oh yeah we have the IS on the back foot yeah sure" while they don't know what the hell they're doing and ISIS is making gains... yeah, the Dems should be pilloried in the upcoming election over their Middle East policy.  Map reminder:  I've done more in-depth effortposts in the ME thread, but the TL;DR is that ISIL losing Tal Abyad would be a major blow for them. There is literally a highway that goes straight from Tal Abyad to ISIL's Syrian capital of Raqqa, and many of ISIL's foreign fighters rely on crossing the border at Tal Abyad in order to get into Syria/Iraq. On the flipside, the Kobani Kurds/Euphrates Volcano forces can only get weapons, supplies, and reinforcements through Turkey (most of the time through smuggling), so taking Tal Abyad/Gire Sipi is very important logistics-wise for them. There's also the morale factor to consider, especially since ISIL is just coming off a couple victories. Finally, keep in mind that the Kurds/Euphrates Volcano forces aren't going to be taking Tal Abyad alone, they're got the US airforce as backup. Luckily for the Kurds: icantfindaname posted:Dropping massive amounts of bombs on stuff is possibly the only thing the US military is consistently good at 
fade5 fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 22:32
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It's a shame Turkey is such an awful country because the US being able to say "you know what, gently caress it we're going all in with the Kurds because they've been faithful to us even though we've treated them like poo poo" and helping them establish a Kurdistan would be nice. Except Turkey will go nuclear (figuratively if not literally) if such a nation were to form since it'd be almost impossible for the Kurds to not demand their territory that Turkey holds and Turkey's perfectly fine with committing genocide against uppity ethnic groups in/near its borders even if a Kurdistan formed without changing Turkey's borders.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:37
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I don't see the point. We don't really need a strategy. Nobody in the Pentagon is going to be regurgitating COIN anytime soon.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:38
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Amergin posted:Because what's more American than having terrible opinions but being great at coming up with catchy fluff? The price we pay for good titles.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:45
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fade5 posted:The problem is that he's basically being honest. Without sending US troops back to Iraq, the only people who can/will fight ISIL in Iraq are the (somewhat unreliable) forces on the ground aka the Kurds/ISF/Shia militias/various Sunni militias, and it's a giant clusterfuck trying to get them all in the same room much less on the same page. Saying that we don't yet have a complete strategy is basically right, and to be honest I'd prefer that Obama says so rather than pretending there's a simple, easy solution. But then that doesn't make for a good soundbyte so The problem I have is it just seems like Obama refuses to take a leadership role. After watching the pbs frontline episode that came out recently, they just don't seem with it. The whitehouse only meets on the topic for an hour a week. The locals are having a hard enough time and they live this thing 24/7, an hour a week isn't going to come close. Obama really needs to delegate high level authority to someone with knowledge and working experience in the region. someone who could even have a prayer of a chance to influence the situation on the ground in a pro-active fashion rather than reacting a week too late.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:50
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Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld
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Jun 8, 2015 22:55
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Torpor posted:The problem I have is it just seems like Obama refuses to take a leadership role. After watching the pbs frontline episode that came out recently, they just don't seem with it. The whitehouse only meets on the topic for an hour a week. The locals are having a hard enough time and they live this thing 24/7, an hour a week isn't going to come close. To do what? What do you want the US to do? Do you honestly think someone like the CENTCOM commander, a guy with a high level of authority, knowledge, and working experience within the region is just kind of sitting on his thumbs? Boon fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 22:57
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Joementum posted:Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld
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Jun 8, 2015 22:58
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Joementum posted:Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld So like, does he have a brain problem or what Like no joke, I read that as "Donald Trump" at first and thought 'yea ok he's an idiot' but then I read it again and wow what the gently caress.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:00
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Joementum posted:Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld That documentary with Errol Flynn never happened.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:01
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Joementum posted:Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld For gently caress's sake I am going to be happy on the day this piece of poo poo dies
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Jun 8, 2015 23:02
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site posted:That documentary with Errol Flynn never happened. I would definitely watch a movie with Errol Flynn and Donald Rumsfeld in it.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:04
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Joementum posted:Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld
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Jun 8, 2015 23:05
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DeathSandwich posted:Well, it seems as though Kansas might actually be able to unfuck their budget situation after all. This still has to make it through the state house who might be pushing debates off until tomorrow? I've seen a whole lot of "BIGGEST TAX INCREASE IN STATE HISTORY" getting thrown around so I could see a lot of people getting gun shy. I hope they don't pass it so we can continue to watch the show.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:06
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Joementum posted:I would definitely watch a movie with Errol Flynn and Donald Rumsfeld in it. lmao Errol Morris my bad
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Jun 8, 2015 23:06
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Joementum posted:Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld  Black is white, up is down, and we have always been at war with Eastasia.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:07
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John Boehner gives his press conference the Michael Bay / JJ Abrams treatment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx7oEk7Nhj0
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Jun 8, 2015 23:09
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Boon posted:To do what? What do you want the US to do? Not ignore kobani for a few weeks last fall because it wasn't important. Rescue the yazidis from their stupid hill instead of showing up a week after they were rescued by communists. God knows how many deals there are to be made and conflicts to resolve; the country is just about being torn in 3 and obama's strategy appears to be to ignore realities on the ground and pretend the current government represents everyone adequately. I don't doubt that there are capable leaders in centcom or at State, but without resources and manpower not a lot can be done by them. also centcom doesn't exactly have a great track record in this area.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:14
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Its pretty funny that you are basically asking for gulf war 3. I mean we had the best people in centcom and state working 10 years to get some semblance of peace. The best thing that came of that was bribing the diffrent militas to stop for a bit. What exactly are you looking for wholesale slaughter of isis?
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Jun 8, 2015 23:34
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Torpor posted:Not ignore kobani for a few weeks last fall because it wasn't important. Rescue the yazidis from their stupid hill instead of showing up a week after they were rescued by communists. Got it, you have no idea what you're talking about and are looking to get the US mired in sectarian conflicts within the region indefinitely. Since you're so concerned about it, I suppose you'll be the next guy doing 9 month deployments to the region? Maybe I read it wrong and you just want us to cut deals with the "good militias" and arm/train them because surely they'll form a government that is based on US interests rather than their own? What exactly are you proposing? Boon fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 23:34
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Boon posted:Got it, you have no idea what you're talking about and are looking to get the US mired in sectarian conflicts within the region indefinitely. Since you're so concerned about it, I suppose you'll be the next guy doing 9 month deployments to the region? We started this discussion based upon Obama's statement of we don't know what to do with our strategy involving iraq and syria. Which sounds a bit like what you refer to as getting the US mired in sectarian conflicts within the region indefinitely. If that is your hangup that horse left the barn about a year ago. Ultimately, we bombed Kboani, it happened, late after a US general got up at a press conference and said we wouldn't bomb kobani because it was not important. The Yazidi rescue mission happened, late, for no reason. Our Anbar Awakening partners literally got hung out to dry when we promised them support, now we're bitching about not having reliable partners on the ground fighting ISIS. The US is pretty loving involved right now; it just appears to be very ineffectual involvement. Edit: made post less salty. DoubleEdit: Part of the reason for the whole mess in Syria and Iraq is due to US meddling in the area, and not a little to do with the US abruptly exiting Iraq a couple years ago. Torpor fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 23:46
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Joementum posted:Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld Maybe he means unrealistic in the sense that we can never achieve Platonic ideal Democracy? And concerned in the sense that you get concerned that you forgot to hit the car lock button in the parking lot?
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Jun 8, 2015 23:53
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Greataval posted:Its pretty funny that you are basically asking for gulf war 3. I mean we had the best people in centcom and state working 10 years to get some semblance of peace. The best thing that came of that was bribing the diffrent militas to stop for a bit. What exactly are you looking for wholesale slaughter of isis? Don't be silly. They want to go Full Roman. Kill every native and repopulate the area with their own people. 
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Jun 9, 2015 00:02
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Joementum posted:Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Od3eL6FJeY&t=1220s
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Jun 9, 2015 00:05
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Joementum posted:Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld I can't even begin to say how angry this makes me.
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Jun 9, 2015 00:07
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Zeroisanumber posted:I can't even begin to say how angry this makes me. The Don is hoping to get his old gig back if Jeb wins it. Paul promised. Don's got a whole rolodex filled with defense contractor CEOs.
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Jun 9, 2015 00:09
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McDowell posted:The Don is hoping to get his old gig back if Jeb wins it. Paul promised. Don's got a whole rolodex filled with defense contractor CEOs. I will honestly and truly burn this motherfucker down if that happens.
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Jun 9, 2015 00:13
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Torpor posted:We started this discussion based upon Obama's statement of we don't know what to do with our strategy involving iraq and syria. Which sounds a bit like what you refer to as getting the US mired in sectarian conflicts within the region indefinitely. If that is your hangup that horse left the barn about a year ago. Yeah, because when you consider that we're not going to go and root ISIS out cave by cave like we did with the Japanese in WWII, that there are no diplomatic options with ISIS, that our "allies" are shifty at best, and there being no interest in being tied to the US long-term for any group in the region it basically means that there are no good US options. And no, that horse left the barn three decades ago, and then again two decades ago, and again a decade ago. It appears to be very ineffectual involvement because again you have no idea what the gently caress is going on and what is being done daily over there. You're literally talking from a place of ignorance based solely on some thousand mile point of view on isolated events. So I'll ask you again, what specifically would you have the US do? This isn't some short-term game. ISIS took a decade to come to fruition and now that it has, it's not going away by the end of Obama's term and probably not the next Presidents either. The US isn't going to swoop in with Chariots of Fire blaring every time a humanitarian crisis pops up in a loving war zone and expect to save the day, because that poo poo only happens in movies. Boon fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 00:17
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Never change,   
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Jun 9, 2015 00:27
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Joementum posted:Quote of the day, "Six million people risk losing their health care subsidies, yet [Obama] continues to deny that Obamacare is bad for the American people." ~ Senator John Thune (R-SD). 
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Jun 9, 2015 00:28
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I see it's time for another round of GOP: Evil or Stupid.
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Jun 9, 2015 02:02
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Iowa Snow King posted:I see it's time for another round of GOP: Evil or Stupid. Both levers all the way to full.
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Jun 9, 2015 02:09
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FAUXTON posted:Both levers all the way to full. They don't have a setting high enough. Jesus Christ, Donny. The amount of doublethink going on there almost impresses me.
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Jun 9, 2015 03:10
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McDowell posted:The Don is hoping to get his old gig back if Jeb wins it. Paul promised. Don's got a whole rolodex filled with defense contractor CEOs.
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Jun 9, 2015 04:17
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CannonFodder posted:Rummy needs to be Jeb's adviser for finding a VP running mate, and nominate himself of course. Burn it all to the ground. House of Cards: Life Imitating Art Imitating Life
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Jun 9, 2015 12:46
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AlternateNu posted:House of Cards: Life Imitating Art Imitating Life What does that have to do with House of Cards? Are you talking about the Raymond Tusk thing? That was never meant to end with Tusk being VP. Frank didn't nominate himself. Him being sent to "evaluate Tusk" meant he was in the running from the beginning. Cheney really was meant to actually find a real VP. ErIog fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 12:47
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I think the hint is that Tusk is pretty much the Kock brothers of the series.
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Jun 9, 2015 12:51
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FAUXTON posted:Maybe after his high school autism case helper explains it to him.
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Jun 9, 2015 13:05
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Joementum posted:Quote of the day, "Six million people risk losing their health care subsidies, yet [Obama] continues to deny that Obamacare is bad for the American people." ~ Senator John Thune (R-SD).  WHAT? Joementum posted:Quote of the night, “The idea that we could fashion a democracy in Iraq seemed to me unrealistic. I was concerned about it when I first heard those words.” ~ Donald Rumsfeld Oh I understand, they are intentionally trying to give me a brain aneurysm. gently caress you Rumsfeld you disingenuous gently caress, you weren't concerned about poo poo.
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Jun 9, 2015 13:32
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FAUXTON posted:Both levers all the way to full. They've had them pegged into Flank Ahead for a while now and some are starting to wonder about the very interesting sounds coming from the engine room.
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Jun 9, 2015 13:37
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