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TheDisreputableDog posted:I just pointed out that outcomes and wait times were being deliberately and systematically misreported for who knows how long. I've never denied that the VA hasn't had its problems with corruption/lack of oversight. However, all the reports I gave came from external sources outside the VA looking at the raw patient data and overall system costs, which would be very hard to misreport. Your report does nothing to impeach my data. And your report suggests that the VA needs renewed oversight, increased funding, and a culture change at the VA, whereas the Republicans would rather scrap the thing outright. With all this chaff-throwing and dodging you're doing, it's clear you're not arguing in good faith.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:32
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Bernie gets asked by Swedish TV why he likes Sweden so much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4yBHnMUK5w
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Jun 8, 2015 22:32
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I wonder why Bernie Sanders, Definite Racist, Possible KKK Member, Attended the March On Washington By Accident, was ranked 97% by the NAACP while Hillary Clinton, Champion of Minorities, was rated less at 95% while a senator... Clearly this is a mistake.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:35
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Gentle reminder that the whole birther movement was birthed as a whisper campaign by the Hillary camp. Yeah, and McCain didn't make it to the general in 2000 because Karl Rove started a rumor that he had an illegitimate black baby. Don't pretend that your side is any better (because they're actually worse).
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Jun 8, 2015 22:40
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:I wonder why Bernie Sanders, Definite Racist, Possible KKK Member, Attended the March On Washington By Accident, was ranked 97% by the NAACP while Hillary Clinton, Champion of Minorities, was rated less at 95% while a senator... Clearly this is a mistake. Again: Nobody here has called him a racist, or a KKK member. By making strawmen and parodies of the positions of people who are saying that Sanders needs to learn minority issues--especially when people like I have said that I'm sure he has the best interests of Black Americans at heart--you just look petulant and like you can't engage with any flaws whatsoever in your candidate. It's not at all a mistake--Sanders has consistently voted, as have most of the rest of the Democrats other than Blue Dogs--in the way that the NAACP is happy with. This does not make him in any way stand out from the field. It also does not, however, translate to black support for Sanders. Is your plan to attract black support for Sanders to belittle and mock people who are trying to say that Sanders can improve on minority issues? Deep Hurting posted:Yeah, and McCain didn't make it to the general in 2000 because Karl Rove started a rumor that he had an illegitimate black baby. Don't pretend that your side is any better (because they're actually worse). He's perfectly happy to say that both sides are just as bad--that brings the Democrats down to GOP level. Push the button, Frank.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:43
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:I wonder why Bernie Sanders, Definite Racist, Possible KKK Member, Attended the March On Washington By Accident, was ranked 97% by the NAACP while Hillary Clinton, Champion of Minorities, was rated less at 95% while a senator... Clearly this is a mistake. NAACP is bought and paid for like those black pastors Obama goes to dinner with, obviously.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:50
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I don't really see why it matters what Bernie thinks, since Hillary is going to be installed by the NWO Bilderberger globalists, probably to fulfill a plan related to keeping the British monarchy in control of the world.quote:The Bilderberg 2015 Conference, scheduled to take place this weekend in Austria will focus, at least in part, on “American elections,” according to a press release on the secretive cabal’s very limited public website. Their plan just makes too much sense! Can Bernie stop it in time? Wait, is that a gold fringe on Bernie's logo? NOOOOOO!
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Jun 8, 2015 22:52
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:I wonder why Bernie Sanders, Definite Racist, Possible KKK Member, Attended the March On Washington By Accident, was ranked 97% by the NAACP while Hillary Clinton, Champion of Minorities, was rated less at 95% while a senator... Clearly this is a mistake. You should for sure embrace this and never get over the fact that many black people disagree with Bernie that racial equality will come with economic equality so we need to focus on that. You 100% don't sound like a bitter manbaby who is legitimately upset that 'the blacks' aren't just doing as his group wants.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:54
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Cantorsdust posted:However, all the reports I gave came from external sources outside the VA looking at the raw patient data and overall system costs, which would be very hard to misreport. Your report does nothing to impeach my data. I'm not sure what this golden source "raw patient data" you're talking about. The books were cooked. Patient data falsified. It took an internal whistleblower to stop it. You can tell me I'm not arguing in good faith, but I'm not the one trying to pass off suspect and falsified data as unimpeachable fact.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:57
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Someone please stop Ted Cruz from doing any more impressions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AP_dUYA6-8
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Jun 8, 2015 23:01
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Tatum Girlparts posted:You should for sure embrace this and never get over the fact that many black people disagree with Bernie that racial equality will come with economic equality so we need to focus on that. You 100% don't sound like a bitter manbaby who is legitimately upset that 'the blacks' aren't just doing as his group wants. When has Bernie ever said this? Also, I'm not debs or whoever was making those bad posts earlier.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:01
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Since Bernie doesn't care about black people what are Hillary's proposals/ideals/speeches to tackle racism?
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Jun 8, 2015 23:05
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TheDisreputableDog posted:I'm not sure what this golden source "raw patient data" you're talking about. The studies looked at the direct medical records of each patient and abstracted outcomes from that. Admissions, readmissions, infections that occurred, deaths. That's not tables in VA reports or averages calculated after the fact, that's the direct history of each patient. If you can't be assed to at least glance at the stuff I'm posting, then we really don't have anything to talk about.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:05
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:When has Bernie ever said this? Also, I'm not debs or whoever was making those bad posts earlier. That Salon article that started all this talked about how in college that was his stance, and, ya know, his entire political career says 'yea he probably still thinks that'.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:05
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Since Bernie doesn't care about black people what are Hillary's proposals/ideals/speeches to tackle racism? 1. Wife of the first black President
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Jun 8, 2015 23:08
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Since Bernie doesn't care about black people what are Hillary's proposals/ideals/speeches to tackle racism? I think this is an extremely silly argument, but Hillary's two big policy speeches so far have been very much race-related.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:11
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Since Bernie doesn't care about black people what are Hillary's proposals/ideals/speeches to tackle racism? Kill whitey
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Jun 8, 2015 23:11
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Since Bernie doesn't care about black people what are Hillary's proposals/ideals/speeches to tackle racism? Well, here's a speech she gave a little over a month ago about the need for prison/police reform, with a focus on how it affects minority communities.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:13
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DaveWoo posted:Well, here's a speech she gave a little over a month ago about the need for prison/police reform, with a focus on how it affects minority communities. Ha! I even forgot about this one. I was only thinking of her big pushes on immigration and voter registration.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:15
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Cantorsdust posted:The studies looked at the direct medical records of each patient and abstracted outcomes from that. Admissions, readmissions, infections that occurred, deaths. That's not tables in VA reports or averages calculated after the fact, that's the direct history of each patient. If you can't be assed to at least glance at the stuff I'm posting, then we really don't have anything to talk about. I can't be assed to do more than copy paste Wikipedia but... Are you actually saying that wait times have no bearing on outcomes or comparisons to private systems? Because - come on, son quote:When investigators asked VA employees to explain "what occurred in March 2013" the employees said that "they were instructed by Business office staff to access the appointment schedule, review it for capacity, inform the Veteran of schedule availability, and then enter the Desired Date as the patient appointment date" and "By entering the Desired Date as the appointment date, the wait time … appears to be zero days."
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Jun 8, 2015 23:18
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Santorum is on the lips of every young republican male. This is the best post in this thread so far.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:20
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Since Bernie doesn't care about black people what are Hillary's proposals/ideals/speeches to tackle racism? Nobody has said that Sanders doesn't care about Black people. Why is it so impossible for you guys to engage on this topic without strawmanning?
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Jun 8, 2015 23:25
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TheDisreputableDog posted:I can't be assed to do more than copy paste Wikipedia but... Are you actually saying that wait times have no bearing on outcomes or comparisons to private systems? Because - come on, son I agree that wait times do. But that's one reported outcome, and one of the most manipulable, as shown. When you look at less easily manipulable data, you still see good performance. Check the last study listed in my first post: http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9100/index1.html Follow-up is just one of the many performance measures listed. The VA still performed better in general diagnosis, treatment, and specific care for a number of different diseases. This is why I'm saying you're not bothering to read what I'm posting. Because you're focusing on one small part of the larger picture. Probably because that's the only part that you can criticize.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:27
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Joementum posted:Their plan just makes too much sense! Can Bernie stop it in time? Wait, is that a gold fringe on Bernie's logo? NOOOOOO! Does that mean his campaign is only subject to maritime law? Imagine the possibilities!
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Jun 8, 2015 23:30
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:Does that mean his campaign is only subject to maritime law? Imagine the possibilities! Danelaw, clearly.    
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Jun 8, 2015 23:40
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:Does that mean his campaign is only subject to maritime law? Imagine the possibilities! Great, now the FEC has to announce that they don't have the funding to bring pirates to justice this election season.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:43
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Joementum posted:I don't really see why it matters what Bernie thinks, since Hillary is going to be installed by the NWO Bilderberger globalists, probably to fulfill a plan related to keeping the British monarchy in control of the world. I've never really understood the obsession conspiracy theorists have with what are essentially groups of people shooting the poo poo that only happen to look important because the people in question are rich/famous/politicians/etc..
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Jun 9, 2015 00:00
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Joementum posted:Someone please stop Ted Cruz from doing any more impressions. Is he running for president, or to replace Rich Little at The Venetian?
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Jun 9, 2015 00:02
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Gen. Ripper posted:I've never really understood the obsession conspiracy theorists have with what are essentially groups of people shooting the poo poo that only happen to look important because the people in question are rich/famous/politicians/etc.. tbf I bet shooting the poo poo would include some form of business talk with guys that high up in the food chain
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Jun 9, 2015 00:03
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Joementum posted:Bernie gets asked by Swedish TV why he likes Sweden so much. Couldn't really hear anything over the wind, so I'm just going to assume he said it's their fish.
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Jun 9, 2015 00:06
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Gyges posted:Couldn't really hear anything over the wind, so I'm just going to assume he said it's their fish. He basically asked the reporter what they pay/paid for stuff like doctor visits, college, and childcare, (spoiler: nothing/almost nothing) and then talked about how low their rates of child poverty and other social ills are.
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Jun 9, 2015 00:12
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TheDisreputableDog posted:I can't be assed to do more than copy paste Wikipedia but... Are you actually saying that wait times have no bearing on outcomes or comparisons to private systems? Because - come on, son Excessive wait times would be a problem with the funding not being adequate to serve the needs of the patients, not a condemnation of the system.
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Jun 9, 2015 00:33
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Jun 9, 2015 00:37
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TheDisreputableDog posted:I can't be assed to do more than copy paste Wikipedia but... Are you actually saying that wait times have no bearing on outcomes or comparisons to private systems? Because - come on, son Are you even actually a Republican? This is like sub- "angry old man ranting on facebook for the first time" quality analysis. Didn't D&D used to have smart Republicans?
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Jun 9, 2015 00:39
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VitalSigns posted:Are you even actually a Republican? This is like sub- "angry old man ranting on facebook for the first time" quality analysis. Like I said, he's the five cent version. You could replace him with any average commentator at Red State. That Chris Christie guy has some intelligence and is at least well-spoken, but he spends most of his time cringing.
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Jun 9, 2015 00:42
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VitalSigns posted:Are you even actually a Republican? This is like sub- "angry old man ranting on facebook for the first time" quality analysis. Maybe they all forgot to rereg after Toxx For Romney/McCain?
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Jun 9, 2015 00:52
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Salvor_Hardin posted:Excessive wait times would be a problem with the funding not being adequate to serve the needs of the patients, not a condemnation of the system. The widespread and almost casual way wait times were covered up are certainly a systematic issue and emblematic of people's general fears re: single payer government run systems. The people doing it were literally like "Well, this is just how you get wait times down." Meanwhile - you have vets dying of cancer. Dead vets' families getting callbacks for appointment setups after they died. Like, only a handful of people were actually fired because of it and a bunch of bonuses were still paid out. It's the biggest load of horseshit. But sure, Obamacare is at a record low approval rating because republicans made up death panels one summer in 2009.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:08
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TheDisreputableDog posted:The widespread and almost casual way wait times were covered up are certainly a systematic issue and emblematic of people's general fears re: single payer government run systems. I don't quite see how Obamacare relates to vets` underfunded and understaffed single-payer healthcare, to be honest. You want to walk me through that?
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Jun 9, 2015 01:09
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TheDisreputableDog posted:But sure, Obamacare is at a record low approval rating because republicans made up death panels one summer in 2009. Citation Needed.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:10
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TheDisreputableDog posted:The widespread and almost casual way wait times were covered up are certainly a systematic issue and emblematic of people's general fears re: single payer government run systems. So why didn't they just use the free market to get their health care first? 
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Jun 9, 2015 01:13
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