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 Mark Leung Revenge of the Bitch
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Jun 8, 2015 07:14
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| # ? May 21, 2024 15:44 |
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Man you people did some quality work this weekend when it comes to the whole opinions thing geez
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Jun 8, 2015 07:34
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FirstAidKite posted:One of the worst parts of ff9's battle system is how slow it is. One of the other worst parts is that it has a damage cap and so many skills end up hitting the damage cap that it's pointless to get any of the other skills that also hit the damage cap. I'm surprised no one has made a remove damage limit mod for that game yet.
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Jun 8, 2015 07:43
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corn in the bible posted:spider was colonel redips??? spider is redips spelled backwards
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Jun 8, 2015 08:47
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*vaguely gestures at entire thread* Source your quotes.
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Jun 8, 2015 09:43
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Tallgeese posted:I'm surprised no one has made a remove damage limit mod for that game yet. Then they gave Quina a move in Disc 1 that one-shots every boss through Disc 2, and half the cast easily-ground-out 9999s.
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Jun 8, 2015 17:47
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i fused a power with elec, wind, light and fire hit all in persona 3. its very powerful!! hahaha
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Jun 8, 2015 18:09
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Yeah nearly everyone in FF9 can hit the damage cap early on if you know what you're doing. Frog Drop on Quinna that Dragon move for Freya Zidane's Thievery. Steiner's Double Damage trance and shock, some of the summons.
Kild fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jun 8, 2015 |
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Jun 8, 2015 18:13
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FF9 really needed to diversify moves better than just bigger damage. It's a shame because it has some really cool concepts but at the end of the day 9999 is just too easy to hit for too little effort and that devalues almost everything else you can do because nothing is as important as damage.
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Jun 8, 2015 18:15
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Davincie posted:i fused a power with elec, wind, light and fire hit all in persona 3. its very powerful!! hahaha If you can fuse up that four-elements Power for a little while it should carry you to the point where good physical AoEs and Boost/Amps show up though. Stats actually make a pretty huge difference so getting too used to a persona because it has a great skill spread can backfire on you. It should be a lot easier if you're playing P3P with skill cards though, I guess. Kild posted:Yeah nearly everyone in FF9 can hit the damage cap early on if you know what you're doing. Frog Drop on Quinna that Dragon move for Freya. Steiner's Double Damage trance, some of the summons. I think Zidane has one too.
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Jun 8, 2015 18:17
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Nakar posted:This is a good idea early but as the game goes on you may want to diversify and get Boost/Amps on your elemental personas. It's more of a pain in the rear end with fusion but those skills can turn the -dynes into incredibly strong attacks and the mid-tiers into incredibly cost-effective killers. Also depending on which version of P3 you're playing physicals might also be worth looking at. P4 kind of had the more obviously appealing (and overpowered) physical moves but P3's split physical types allowed for some insanely good Pierce AoEs that can more or less wipe fights if no enemy nulls Pierce. And physical AoEs are often the most cost-efficient because they cost HP but you can replace that with a cheap heal so the cost in SP is effectively much lower. Yeah that too. - Frog Drop (Quina), Thievery (Zidane), and Dragon's Crest (Freya) all do a guaranteed 9999 damage. - Shock (Steiner) is almost always a 9999 attack. - Iai Strike (Steiner) can instant kill an enemy easily - Climhazzard & Stock (Steiner) break do tons of damage against a group of enemies - Soul Blade (Zidane) can inflict great status effects (Doom, Petrify)
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Jun 8, 2015 18:25
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Nakar posted:This is a good idea early but as the game goes on you may want to diversify and get Boost/Amps on your elemental personas. It's more of a pain in the rear end with fusion but those skills can turn the -dynes into incredibly strong attacks and the mid-tiers into incredibly cost-effective killers. Also depending on which version of P3 you're playing physicals might also be worth looking at. P4 kind of had the more obviously appealing (and overpowered) physical moves but P3's split physical types allowed for some insanely good Pierce AoEs that can more or less wipe fights if no enemy nulls Pierce. And physical AoEs are often the most cost-efficient because they cost HP but you can replace that with a cheap heal so the cost in SP is effectively much lower. Don't worry about Phys skills, just use the party member you get in June/July-ish who has pure Phys Skills. You are indeed far better off spreading your elements to only one or two per Persona though, as buffs, debuffs and buff/debuff purge spells are REALLY important.
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Jun 8, 2015 18:59
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All the 9999s being removed from FF9 wouldn't change the problem of the skill stacking though. There's practically no enemy Steiner can't gib by just stacking * Killer and MP Attack with an elemental sword + element booster (even if not hitting a weakness), and if he goes Trance then that gets doubled again. And Auto-Regen not being metered to the ATB progress (and ATB not stopping during animations) ruins any chance of dying. It's like they balanced the entire game around skills not existing and special abilities not being used, because actually utilizing the features the game provides you trivialize it. I mean yes using Materia or Junctions makes 7/8 really easy but you actually have to track down the right Enemy Skills or play cards to trivialize things. FF9 just flat out can't do anything bad to you once you start getting equipment, and if you poke at it even slightly by stacking damage boosts on Steiner or using any of Quina's Blue Magic the game falls over and shits itself. Hell, even actually using Trance with any character swings things absurdly into your favor, and using Trance is unavoidable.
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Jun 8, 2015 19:30
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isn't any Final Fantasy game exploitable if you are a big enough sperglord? I remember spending a good amount of time casting Yell with Ramza in FFT back in the day.
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Jun 8, 2015 20:03
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The problem with FF9 was that you can exploit it without even trying and that's a big no-no. It's one thing to have an exploitable JRPG that people can opt out of if they want (and people legitimately do) but if your combat breaks down without even trying, then your poo poo's just busted and not fun. People who want to break the game completely miss out on the experience of finding ways to break it too.
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Jun 8, 2015 20:05
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Rascyc posted:The problem with FF9 was that you can exploit it without even trying and that's a big no-no. It's one thing to have an exploitable JRPG that people can opt out of if they want (and people legitimately do) but if your combat breaks down without even trying, then your poo poo's just busted and not fun. People who want to break the game completely miss out on the experience of finding ways to break it too. You can't get 9999 Frog Drop without just straight up having autism
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Jun 8, 2015 20:14
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Good thing there's like 50 other moves that'll hit the damage cap early in the game! No autism required
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Jun 8, 2015 20:21
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i think it's ok for it to be broken really easily. none of the final fantasy games are really hard. its all about sitting back, wat hing cutscenes, and playing the chocobo minigame
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Jun 8, 2015 20:30
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Oh my God you guys, the power walk in Radiata Stories!!
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Jun 8, 2015 21:54
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Wendell posted:Oh my God you guys, the power walk in Radiata Stories!! Wait 'till you get different outfits for Jack. A lot of them are especially goofy while power walking. Also, don't kick the homeless guy rifling through the trash.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:25
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The Gentlemieu posted:Also, don't kick the homeless guy rifling through the trash. Well that's just good life advice in general.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:26
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The easy-to-reach damage cap in FF9 is actually a great tool for balancing the game. It ensures that all characters are equally useful, and no one breaks the game. Because if the devs can know with 100% certainty that everyone will always do 9999 with every turn, then that's the simplest thing ever. The problem is just that they were pretty uncreative with a lot of abilities, that were just better versions of other abilities and that ended up being totally meaningless.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:29
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Nakar posted:Then they gave Quina a move in Disc 1 that one-shots every boss through Disc 2, and half the cast easily-ground-out 9999s. I dunno if I'd call it bad design. Weird, maybe, but it's the ultimate brute force and I kinda dig that. quote:It's worse than that. Kill Quina -> Phoenix Down until revived at 1HP -> Limit Glove kills everything up to Soulcage instantly. No boss where Quina exists is a challenge. Phoenix Down is the busta's way, and even Auto-Life/Reraise isn't pro. Use Matra Magic 
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Jun 8, 2015 22:32
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I mean, yeah, it's well balanced, but it's also really boring. Every battle plays exactly the same with every character spamming the same moves every time. I realize that's rpg.txt but it's true.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:56
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Yeah the main difference is to break FF8 you have to know how Junctioning works, know where to get like Tornados or Quakes on Disc 1 (i.e. cards), acquire enough to make 100 of them (including learning the GF abilities that refine them and knowing those matter most), and then slot them, and then Squall breaks the game by just selecting Attack until the end of the game. To break FF9, you just need to have Steiner use Attack after putting some equipment on him. God help you if you collect the Stellazio coins by being marginally thorough and get the Blood Sword on Disc 2.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:27
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Doing max damage isn't what breaks the game. Having a really boring combat system does. Bravely Default has the same really-easy-to-reach max damage, and while that creates some oddities, but that didn't break the game either because it's simply not important compared to figuring out how to get more turns. And not die. Other things break the game, but max damage is just a thing you do.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:31
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Right, because Bravely Default's more increasingly difficult fights kind of assume you're using powerful class combos. They're kind of designed to be fought that way, as trying to do it without is either incredibly hard or just surpassingly tedious.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:38
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If FF9's battle speed was the same as Bravely Default, that would really eliminate most of its problems.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:38
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What is emblematic to me about the problem of FF9 is Zidane's Trance. The way the game is set up, your main character has a bunch of Trance moves at his disposal. The problem is, you would be foolish to use anything but the first one, since if I'm not mistaken spamming it provides the highest damage over time! All those other moves are a waste! See also: Ark's move. The fact it's Shadow element is just icing.
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Jun 8, 2015 23:40
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Shadow hearts is fun because everybody gets broken moves and it's fun to try to break the enemy before it breaks you
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Jun 9, 2015 00:30
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I just wanna look stylish
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Jun 9, 2015 00:36
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sorry you opened the wrong chest, no zodiac spear for you
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Jun 9, 2015 00:37
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the funniest thing about ff12 international is that they didn't bother making models for the new weapons, and then tried to justify this by claiming that they're just invisible
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Jun 9, 2015 00:38
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Tallgeese posted:What is emblematic to me about the problem of FF9 is Zidane's Trance. Get the mage masher from Baku at the first fight in the game. During the Trance tutorial, Zidane will have two dyne skills. The second one is stronger and multitarget. However, it targets Garnet and kills her resulting in a Game Over. It was the only game over I experienced that didn't come from Ozma.
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Jun 9, 2015 00:58
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FF9 is one of the few games I can sincerely say I love despite its flaws. There are so many dumb design decisions but the game has heart and that's enough for me. I really don't know what the design decision was behind trances. "Everybody liked limit breaks so lets make them automatically go off and 90% of the time in random battles!"
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Jun 9, 2015 01:12
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Any love here for Demon Gaze? I grabbed it a couple weeks ago for like $5 or something from one of the PSN weekly sales and started playing last week. It's excellent! The battle system reminds me of what Dragon Quest's would be like if it were fun and interesting and fast, I like exploring the various dungeons, the item system is addictive, and all of that means that I even enjoy the grinding. I'm, uh, maybe halfwayish through and am having a blast. This is one of the best low-budget RPGs I've played. Note: you definitely need to have a tolerance for anime.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:58
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Yeah dawg, Demon Gaze is a good game.
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Jun 9, 2015 01:59
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Dr. Eldarion posted:Any love here for Demon Gaze? Yeah, I was enjoying it right up to Lord Shark. Talk about a brick wall....
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Jun 9, 2015 02:20
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Demon Gaze is fun if not really easy for 90% of it.
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Jun 9, 2015 02:27
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Once you stick a Paladin in the front of the party to tank literally every hit, it does become rather easier. I wish you had more control over the demons you've got out, though - they can really make or break the battle and when they do the Persona 3 thing and sit there constantly defending it kind of sucks. It was nice that you had a lot more customization available than most Wizardry-esque games, in the form of artifacts.
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Jun 9, 2015 02:32
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