|
SunAndSpring posted:Kind of a stretch to say that the world is soaked in the 50's setting when there's nothing left of that era but blasted-apart relics that the modern day survivors are trying to jerry rig into something useful. SunAndSpring posted:Yeah, and the Centurions. Everyone else is stuck with shoulder-pads and cups. Okay so now Fallout has very little to do with 50s poo poo, whereas 5 posts ago it was a biting satire of 50s poo poo? Like the game is just not really in any way a critique, it's a straight up celebration of that aesthetic. Which would be fine, if the game weren't seemingly convinced it is in fact a biting critique. And again, this is the literal exact same thing you see with steampunk icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 9, 2015 |
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 00:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 07:08 |
|
|
icantfindaname posted:Okay so now Fallout has very little to do with 50s poo poo, whereas 5 posts ago it was a biting satire of 50s poo poo? everyone's clearly overthinking this
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:04
|
|
|
khy posted:1) Do you guys think that if Fallout hadn't been sold off and Black Isle had made 3 and onward, would the series have gained as much mass market appeal as it did? In your opinions, would it be more or less successful than Bethesda made it? If you want to see the bullet Fallout dodged by Bethesda taking it over, play Van Buren. You wouldn't have been able to get anyone (outside of NMA and Obsidian fetishists) to buy that incarnation of Fallout 3 if you'd pay them. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jun 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:04
|
|
|
I hope Bethesda realise people have a limit of 50s Americana and really focus on the other parts that make fallout fallout. Fo3 went way overboard with the 50s aesthetic and put me off for a long time. I associated fo3 with kids singing "world on fire" avatars of everyone being that jumpsuit smiley man laser beams lol! and 3 dogg. It was bland and unsubtle.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:06
|
|
|
MisterBibs posted:If you want to see the bullet Fallout dodged by Bethesda taking it over, play Van Buren. That was simply a tech demo, though. Horribly unpolished and meant to be a test of the new engine is how I understood it. OR did they eventually release more than the tech demo?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:10
|
|
MisterBibs posted:If you want to see the bullet Fallout dodged by Bethesda taking it over, play Van Buren. Van Buren sounded pretty cool, from the design documents.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:11
|
|
|
Aesthetics and politics/culture are not the same thing, you can "celebrate" (read: put it in your game because it's tied to the series) an aesthetic of a time and place while also critiquing the politics and culture of that time and place.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:11
|
|
|
icantfindaname posted:Because it's impossible to criticize something like that while simultaneously soaking everything about the world's aesthetic in it, especially when the game's main appeal is in loving around and having fun in that world. I'm reminded of the Far Cry 3 thing where the game's writers intended to write a satire or parody and it ended up being indistinguishable from the real thing. It doesn't matter what the authors intended, the game's tone still comes out as "isn't 50s retro-futurism so cool??? we agree on like everything, its uncanny idk how people can think the fallouts are satire even if theyre intended to be. they come off as straight up veneration which is alright, the future is bright in the 50s. which may be irony but its certainly not satire
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:12
|
|
" Self-awareness isn't the same thing as critique. And it is the exact same situation as steampunk, fetishization of that historical setting and aesthetic while somehow being convinced it's a critique of it at the same time
|
I don't mind very vague references to a pre-war toxic mix of fascism, social conservatism and warmongering, using a 50s aesthetic to make it distinctly American also works, if used sparingly and intelligently. In terms of 50s veneration there are a few points to consider. Cool 50s music played constantly. T-51b armour, literally the fascist uniform of pre-war American war criminals is the box art and Really Cool. Despite everything the most Good Guy faction that exists in New Vegas is basically 'Merica part 2. It could go on but I broadly agree with the point that you can't use a setting like this consistently without venerating it in some regard. Some more thoughtfulness in how its done in FO4 would be great. There's a lot more to explore in Fallout's pre-war dystopia than COMMIES AND NUKA COLA.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:21
|
|
|
maev posted:
Followers of the Apocalypse
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:25
|
|
|
khy posted:That was simply a tech demo, though. Horribly unpolished and meant to be a test of the new engine is how I understood it. OR did they eventually release more than the tech demo?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:27
|
|
|
I wonder if the plot will just be incredibly retarded like fallout 3 or the most insanely boring trite ever made like skyrim
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:33
|
|
|
Hoodrich posted:I wonder if the plot will just be incredibly retarded like fallout 3 or the most insanely boring trite ever made like skyrim
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:34
|
|
|
maev posted:Despite everything the most Good Guy faction that exists in New Vegas is basically 'Merica part 2. You mean the faction that's also shown to be almost hopelessly corrupt and stretched too thin, and will inevitably become either imperialist conquerors or collapse entirely unless they can figure their poo poo out? I mean, yeah. You could technically call it "Merica part 2" in the sense that it features many of America's worst flaws and is very morally gray without help from people like the Courier.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:40
|
|
|
if rumors are to be believed, fallout 3 really should have been set when it was intended to be i.e. shortly after doomsday a lot more works when that is assumed. the family in the national guard vault (best story in 3 or new vegas), the violin lady with her stradivarius, a ramshackle community around a bomb (?) or an aircraft carrier, etc
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:41
|
|
|
hmm yes i dislike fallout because it's so ~steampunk~ but i'll go root through dwarven ruins in skyrim all day.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:43
|
|
|
Blue Raider posted:if rumors are to be believed, fallout 3 really should have been set when it was intended to be i.e. shortly after doomsday
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:43
|
|
|
MisterBibs posted:If you want to see the bullet Fallout dodged by Bethesda taking it over, play Van Buren. You are retarded http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3723844&userid=166124
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:45
|
|
|
I don't get how you can possibly think the Fallout games venerate the Cold War mindset. Does Wolfenstein: The New Order venerate Nazism? Your character dwells in a blasted hellscape directly created by Cold War jingoism and paranoia, not to mention the town in FO3 whose obsession with 1950's values has led them to widespread inbreeding and predatory cannibalism. Like, if you seriously think the NCR is some kind of unironic endorsement of America's foreign policy, and not a blatant critique, I don't know what to tell you. Quite a few of their soldiers point out that they have no real reason to be there other then foolish pride and/or overt expansionism, the game isn't very subtle about it or anything. Random Asshole fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:46
|
|
|
NV is worse than 3 because it doesn't have baby mode. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:46
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:hmm yes i dislike fallout because it's so ~steampunk~ but i'll go root through dwarven ruins in skyrim all day. skyrim doesn't think it's a critique of anything and doesn't push some insipid attempt at political commentary. to be fair i might be reacting to the fans more than the game itself, and other stuff with a similar aesthetic like bioshock, but still
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:48
|
|
|
Sir AIDS posted:You are retarded http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3723844&userid=166124 To be fair, he has a point about how loving great liberty prime was. Best part of FO3 hands down. From the anti-communist loudspeaker to the way it delivers mininukes, everything about Liberty Prime was amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:49
|
|
|
khy posted:To be fair, he has a point about how loving great liberty prime was. Best part of FO3 hands down. From the anti-communist loudspeaker to the way it delivers mininukes, everything about Liberty Prime was amazing. icantfindaname posted:skyrim doesn't think it's a critique of anything and doesn't push some insipid attempt at political commentary. to be fair i might be reacting to the fans more than the game itself, and other stuff with a similar aesthetic like bioshock, but still But if you don't like political content in general basically anything with more than a token attempt at a story is pretty much out of your appreciation range. Pillars of Eternity is also fantasy, but it has heaps of political commentary, even if it's only in the context of fantasy settings, and the Witcher 3, while a fantasy setting, is a massive pisstake on the political controversies in Poland. Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jun 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:49
|
|
|
liberty prime was legit cool. it was a spectacle in a game series that desperately needs it
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:51
|
|
|
Random rear end in a top hat posted:Your character dwells in a blasted hellscape directly created by Cold War jingoism and paranoia, not to mention the town in FO3 whose obsession with 1950's values has led them to widespread inbreeding and predatory cannibalism. Didn't you know that 1 in 3 households back in the 50's was full of cannibalistic inbreeders? True fact. How else could you explain the amount of retardation that produced all those hippies?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:53
|
|
|
Yeah anyway on my newest replay I'm finding stuff I never found and exploring places I've never explored, like the H&H Tools factory where one of the workers went totally shithouse crazy and paranoid in the pre-war days and started making all kinds of weird demands on the workers and installed dangerous security measures... ...and also was probably Mr. House. I'm sure it's something that 90% of players already knew about from combing through the wikia or whatever, but I stumbled across it completely on my own and thought it was cool.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:58
|
|
|
I think I said this before in the New Vegas thread but I'll mention it again, Fallout 3 did feel like fanfiction that reused plot beats from Fallout 1 and 2 and mixed them together in a way that didn't quite work but you also have to remember that Fallout 3 is more or less a mini-reboot of the series to new audiences. Fallout was a cult classic but the mainstream had never heard of it until Fallout 3, so much of Fallout 3 was reintroducing the setting to the newcomers and expanding the fanbase exponentially. It's why I have a feeling that Fallout 4 will be significantly better than 3, but still not as good as New Vegas because now that the setting has been reestablished, Bethesda can do their own thing on the East Coast and introduce new ideas to the series. You had hints of that anyway with what you heard about The Institute in Fallout 3. khy posted:Couple things I was thinking of on my way home from work today. To your first point, probably not. NMA and other Fallout fans wanted Troika to get the IP but let's be honest, Troika was completely terrible when it came to the business side of things which resulted in rushed, unbroken and sometimes completely unplayable games without unofficial patches, worse than any of the Fallout games on release even. If Troika had the IP then it wouldn't have really helped because they still wouldn't have had a publisher willing to fund a new Fallout game. During this time, Obsidian just started up and were too busy working on Knights of the Old Republic 2 and frankly, didn't have the funds to even dream of buying the series. So if anything, I'm sort of glad Bethesda picked up the rights because without them, Fallout would have died there and then, even if Bethesda's strengths aren't a brilliant fit for Fallout. The alternatives is some lovely shovelware developers getting their mitts on the series and releasing games of similar quality to the console Brotherhood of Steel game. For your second point, that was the primary complaint about New Vegas wasn't it? That game was more post-post apocalyptic than it was post apocalyptic. While DC still being a shithole 200 years after the bombs fell was a huge glaring issue with Fallout 3, it did offer some more interesting locations to explore for a lot of people than New Vegas did, despite New Vegas being the better game. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jun 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:58
|
|
|
King Vidiot posted:Yeah anyway on my newest replay I'm finding stuff I never found and exploring places I've never explored, like the H&H Tools factory where one of the workers went totally shithouse crazy and paranoid in the pre-war days and started making all kinds of weird demands on the workers and installed dangerous security measures...
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:59
|
|
|
khy posted:Didn't you know that 1 in 3 households back in the 50's was full of cannibalistic inbreeders? True fact. Hey, hippies were a perfectly natural counter culture response to that and the following miserable decade.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 01:59
|
|
|
A. Beaverhausen posted:Hey, hippies were a perfectly natural counter culture response to that and the following miserable decade.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:00
|
|
|
MisterBibs posted:If you want to see the bullet Fallout dodged by Bethesda taking it over, play Van Buren. How can I play a game that doesn't actually exist, and never existed beyond tech demos and design documents?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:02
|
|
|
King Vidiot posted:Yeah anyway on my newest replay I'm finding stuff I never found and exploring places I've never explored, like the H&H Tools factory where one of the workers went totally shithouse crazy and paranoid in the pre-war days and started making all kinds of weird demands on the workers and installed dangerous security measures... i don't think it's mr. house. pretty sure like basically nothing in the bethesda east coasts parallelverse actually relates to the canon west coast fallout you see in new vegas
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:02
|
|
|
Looking forward to the game, hope it takes the quality of story-line from Fallout 3 and adds it with the length of Fallout New Vegas's story-line. Should be interesting to see the new mechanics and modification systems that they have added as well. Game is on the top of my list for "CAN NOT loving WAIT FOR RELEASE", I wanna play now, but with all good things we must be patient. Will be happy to see a little game-play during this years E3. Should give us a small sneak peak at what to expect.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:02
|
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:I think I said this before in the New Vegas thread but I'll mention it again, Fallout 3 did feel like fanfiction that reused plot beats from Fallout 1 and 2 and mixed them together in a way that didn't quite work but you also have to remember that Fallout 3 is more or less a mini-reboot of the series to new audiences. Fallout was a cult classic but the mainstream had never heard of it until Fallout 3, so much of Fallout 3 was reintroducing the setting to the newcomers and expanding the fanbase exponentially. more interesting locations such as 90 subway tunnels
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:03
|
|
|
Hoodrich posted:i don't think it's mr. house. pretty sure like basically nothing in the bethesda east coasts parallelverse actually relates to the canon west coast fallout you see in new vegas Wilks Checkov posted:Looking forward to the game, hope it takes the quality of story-line from Fallout 3 and adds it with the length of Fallout New Vegas's story-line. Should be interesting to see the new mechanics and modification systems that they have added as well. Game is on the top of my list for "CAN NOT loving WAIT FOR RELEASE", I wanna play now, but with all good things we must be patient. Will be happy to see a little game-play during this years E3. Should give us a small sneak peak at what to expect. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:03
|
|
|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:His brother actually Is there anything that would point you there to learn their backstory during any other quests though? I'm curious if that's the only place to learn about the Houses.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:04
|
|
|
oh i see. is it that huge industrial building just off the freeway?
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:04
|
|
|
King Vidiot posted:Is there anything that would point you there to learn their backstory during any other quests though? I'm curious if that's the only place to learn about the Houses. Hoodrich posted:oh i see. is it that huge industrial building just off the freeway? http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/H%26H_Tools_Factory Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Jun 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:06
|
|
|
khy posted:CoW was too short and needed more skill checks. Archmage when you don't have a single magic skill above 25 is not good design. I don't want skill checks like this in either TES or Fallout to be honest because I'd rather these games avoid this sort of content gating even at the sacrifice of my immersion  . However, I am all about lengthy quest lines that expect me to do really awesome and challenging stuff with the skills that relate to that quest line. That is 10x more fun than just having high numbers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 07:08 |
|
|
Xavier434 posted:I don't want skill checks like this in either TES or Fallout to be honest because I'd rather these games avoid this sort of content gating even at the sacrifice of my immersion
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2015 02:11
|
|