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When I play video games, the only requirement I have for their story is for them to be consistent, allow me just enough wiggle-room to immerse myself and kinda forget about the coherence of reality from game world. What takes me straight out of that is when I meet an NPC that I've been looking forward to meeting and I am given NOTHING in all my choices that reflect how I feel. In all my playthroughs, in all character concepts I've imagined, meeting dad in Fallout 3 falls apart in so many ways. He admonishes the player character for leaving the vault, where you were safe, ignoring that he forced you, the player to leave in the first place. At no point are you allowed to point this flaw out to him or given any sense of closure in getting him to apologize to you for leaving you in a dangerous situation. This is why Fallout 3 loses me as a good game. I don't demand a perfect story, I just want something that doesn't kick me in the face and drags me out of the experience. And Bethesda have been really loving bad at this, ever since Morrowind as far as I can see.
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Jun 9, 2015 13:51
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SpookyLizard posted:
Relevant post from the New Vegas thread.
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Jun 9, 2015 14:25
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I'm curious, which things did you guys feel didn't work in New Vegas, without blaming the engine or Bethesda's QA work, just things that were entirely on Obsidian and Fallout 3 genuinely handled better?
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Jun 9, 2015 14:30
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Ahem I think you'll find the Enclave are bad guys therefore you have to stop them even though they're doing the thing you want to do, they'll be doing it in a way that's EEEEEEEVIL _________________\| 
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Jun 9, 2015 14:31
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I'm curious, which things did you guys feel didn't work in New Vegas, without blaming the engine or Bethesda's QA work, just things that were entirely on Obsidian and Fallout 3 genuinely handled better? For someone that supposedly is an infamous Courier, it seemed like no one except that Lonesome Road dude knew you at all. (Though it has been a while since I played so maybe I misremember)
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Jun 9, 2015 14:38
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I never got the impression that you were "infamous", there were just a few people aware that "some courier" got shot by a guy and left for dead and you happened to be them. In Fallout 3 you have some random radio DJ narrating your story for Reasons, because you're the protagonist in a game and they go out of their way to make you feel like the center of attention. I really like the Mad Max story structure of New Vegas. You're this mysterious loner who appears in town and meets with a bunch of different tribes and solves their problems, then disappears into the wastes when you're done with each of them. The Boomers especially left that impression, because they were total isolationists who believed that "one day an Outsider would come and make contact" and then you are that outsider. King Vidiot fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 14:41
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I'm curious, which things did you guys feel didn't work in New Vegas, without blaming the engine or Bethesda's QA work, just things that were entirely on Obsidian and Fallout 3 genuinely handled better? The world design, dungeon design, encounters, cities. There are also more interesting ideas thrown around in Fallout 3, even if the execution is not that great, like a town built around a grounded aircraft carrier orthe vaults you find...
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Jun 9, 2015 14:41
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Bholder posted:There are also more interesting ideas thrown around in Fallout 3, even if the execution is not that great, like a town built around a grounded aircraft carrier orthe vaults you find... You're right, it's a drat shame New Vegas didn't have any vaults... No vaults at all  The carrier was a legit neat idea though. Shame navigating it was such a bitch of loading screens.
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Jun 9, 2015 14:57
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KillerQueen posted:Heh, you think video games can have good stories, what kinda dumb idiot poo poo baby are you? qed
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Jun 9, 2015 14:59
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Pham Nuwen posted:You're right, it's a drat shame New Vegas didn't have any vaults... No vaults at all It had vaults but not exactly interesting ones.
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Jun 9, 2015 15:08
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Bholder posted:It had vaults but not exactly interesting ones. Like the Democracy vault?
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Jun 9, 2015 15:14
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Like the Democracy vault?
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Jun 9, 2015 15:18
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NV should have basically just been an update of Fallout Wasteland Edition with proper Ironsights. They somehow couldn't manage even that, which is pretty indicative of the way Obsidian misinterpreted what was wrong with F3.
Flaky fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 15:20
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Shugojin posted:Ahem I think you'll find the Enclave are bad guys therefore you have to stop them even though they're doing the thing you want to do, they'll be doing it in a way that's EEEEEEEVIL Colonel Autumn wanting to just establish rule through hydraulic despotism instead of Eden's ultra-genocide was probably the most interesting part about the Enclave, until Bethesda didn't do anything with it. quote:The Boomers especially left that impression, because they were total isolationists who believed that "one day an Outsider would come and make contact" and then you are that outsider. It's too bad the coolest faction has the most tedious quests. Around the time you're doing chores for House dealing with factions is where the game starts to nosedive for me. New Vegas is bad, the back and forth for the King is horrible (again, best factions shittiest things), the air field is bad, dealing with the Brotherhood and Benny is fun, Omerta's okay, I constantly forget the Great Khans exist, and I always murder Caesar because that brawl escaping is great. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 15:29
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RBA Starblade posted:Colonel Autumn wanting to just establish rule through hydraulic despotism instead of Eden's ultra-genocide was probably the most interesting part about the Enclave, until Bethesda didn't do anything with it.
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Jun 9, 2015 15:31
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Azhais posted:Relevant post from the New Vegas thread. the immortal words of shamus young echo through the internet
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Jun 9, 2015 15:31
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Genocyber posted:Witcher 3 has very few loading screens. um do you count all the detective/dialogue/cutscene load screens because the game is 'loaded' with em
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Jun 9, 2015 15:33
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RBA Starblade posted:Colonel Autumn wanting to just establish rule through hydraulic despotism instead of Eden's ultra-genocide was probably the most interesting part about the Enclave, until Bethesda didn't do anything with it. Yeah I liked that it was something resembling a plan that works. Use military might -> seize pure water source -> protect pure water source with military might. Everyone ends up doing what you say because you give the water. Basically Immortan Joe, except no rape.
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Jun 9, 2015 15:35
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Just skimmed through the latter portions of this thread and lol at anyone playing Skyrim or Fallout base game and clutching their pearls about the boring missions. I go in to all these games just expecting to enjoy the world and see how I can break it. The base games always have a handful of decent missions (Emperor assassination and Thalmor embassy missions in Skyrim and a few NV quests come to mind). The DLCs are always better story-wise and if you're a PC gamer, da mods. So I expect to be at minimum content with whatever Fallout 4 offers in the base game.
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Jun 9, 2015 15:38
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Chomp8645 posted:The Skyrim guilds were beyond terrible. I don't think anyone here is stupid enough to defend them. The entire Thieves' Guild questline was abominably bad. Even after you become the Guild Master your fellow guild members keep insulting you to your face with the same lines they used when you first showed up.
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Jun 9, 2015 15:45
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:It set the stage for the comical amount of wasted potential that was Skyrim I didn't even finish the main quest for that one, what's the point?
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Jun 9, 2015 15:48
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RBA Starblade posted:Colonel Autumn wanting to just establish rule through hydraulic despotism instead of Eden's ultra-genocide was probably the most interesting part about the Enclave, until Bethesda didn't do anything with it. Seriously though: I think I've only seen that as a fan-explanation. Was there actually anything regarding Autumn's goal & motivation in FO3?
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Jun 9, 2015 15:52
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A scientist and I forget which one says "The Enclave wants to take over the water!" It's a throwaway line that was a plot better than the one you got.
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Jun 9, 2015 15:53
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Kurtofan posted:I didn't even finish the main quest for that one, what's the point? you have to kill a dragon thats eating the souls of the dead and you literally go to valhalla to do it. it is fairly cool
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Jun 9, 2015 15:54
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Blue Raider posted:you have to kill a dragon thats eating the souls of the dead and you literally go to valhalla to do it. it is fairly cool Yeah in theory it's really cool but it was a very underwhelming fight
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Jun 9, 2015 15:56
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Zzulu posted:Yeah in theory it's really cool but it was a very underwhelming fight it was. but i maintain it was a cooler set piece than anything in either fallout 3 or new vegas
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Jun 9, 2015 16:00
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King Vidiot posted:The Boomers especially left that impression, because they were total isolationists who believed that "one day an Outsider would come and make contact" and then you are that outsider. It's a bit weird though when the reason nobody talks to them is because they fire artillery at anybody who gets within half a mile. "One day, an outsider will travel from the fabled lands outside of the airfield and say hello." says the people who have been bombing everyone who tried that to poo poo for the past hundred years.
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Jun 9, 2015 16:09
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OwlFancier posted:It's a bit weird though when the reason nobody talks to them is because they fire artillery at anybody who gets within half a mile. "Well, it can't be just ANY outsider."
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Jun 9, 2015 16:11
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Raygereio posted:It's not even in the game. That's how little Bethesda did with it. Autumn and Eden squabble about it very briefly, but it's mostly only implied to be the wedge between them.
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Jun 9, 2015 16:15
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So Chris Avellone has left Obsidian it seems.
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Jun 9, 2015 17:42
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Mordaedil posted:He admonishes the player character for leaving the vault, where you were safe, ignoring that he forced you, the player to leave in the first place. No he didn't. He left notes directly stating "I'm leaving, but stay here, you'll be safe." Raygereio posted:It's not even in the game. That's how little Bethesda did with it. Autumn is textually against Eden's "poison the water supply" plan, and you can convince him to gently caress off when you tell him that Eden is doing it.
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Jun 9, 2015 17:46
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MisterBibs posted:No he didn't. He left notes directly stating "I'm leaving, but stay here, you'll be safe." Well I mean James leaving is what pushed the overseer into full on crazy mode and so you had to flee for your life, probably, but yeah. Lord it was hamfisted.
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Jun 9, 2015 17:49
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Mr. Fortitude posted:So Chris Avellone has left Obsidian it seems. I give him a year at his new job.
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Jun 9, 2015 17:50
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Shugojin posted:Well I mean James leaving is what pushed the overseer into full on crazy mode and so you had to flee for your life, probably, but yeah. "You'll be safe as long as the overseer doesn't have a psychotic break and try to kill everyone. Don't worry, this has never happened in the history of the vaults."
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Jun 9, 2015 17:56
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Caidin posted:I give him a year at his new job.
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Jun 9, 2015 18:00
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Caidin posted:I give him a year at his new job.
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Jun 9, 2015 18:01
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Raygereio posted:It's not even in the game. That's how little Bethesda did with it. Autumn is probably the only villain in Fallout 3 that has a reasonably decent motivation: he wants to control the water supply in DC to create an Enclave-led fascist state of sorts. It's not really well-explained in game, but still, it's there. Of course, that doesn't really explain the need to fight a war over who turns on the purifier first.. 
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Jun 9, 2015 18:01
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Raygereio posted:Any reason why? He never struck me as Kirkbride-level unhinged. He made the following twitter post: quote:I have officially left Obsidian Entertainment to accept a sudden opening as the Defence Against the Dark Arts Professor at Hogwarts.
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Jun 9, 2015 18:02
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Shugojin posted:He made the following twitter post: Fair Bear Maiden posted:Autumn is probably the only villain in Fallout 3 that has a reasonably decent motivation: he wants to control the water supply in DC to create an Enclave-led fascist state of sorts. It's not really well-explained in game, but still, it's there.
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Jun 9, 2015 18:07
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Flaky posted:I actually think it gets a lot more hate than it deserves. James was a pretty good character (for a computer game) all things considered, and at least adequately voice acted, regardless if you like the choice of Liam Neeson. My main criticism if any was that it was a bit too short (I think there's a speedrun of F3 that takes something like 11 minutes), but then I think I had a good 50 hours of exploring under my belt before I tried to finish the main quest (even Moira's quests would probably take at least 10 hours alone). So let me go through from memory what I perceived as some of the strengths and explain some of the weaknesses. The entire questline is totally invalidated right at the end, you're supposed to go into a radioactive room and push a button and die. This is patently retarded because there are both a ghoul (actually healed by radiation) and a robot companion but if you bring them they just give some bullshit "nuh uh you do it bithc" answer. The whole thing is so hamfisted and relies heavily on raw coincidence for it's deus ex machina BS. Frankly I've never actually seen anyone write that many words about it and now you've got me doing it and aaaaaaaaaaah
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Jun 9, 2015 18:20
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