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Lord Lambeth posted:it was this guy He has 134K followers. He said in the video that he had 125K. He gained 9K followers since posting that video. 
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Jun 10, 2015 09:33
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I remember the original Siboot. The interactions were kind of neat but the actual nighttime combat left me confused. It's kind of like a free-for-all version of those mafia games in the Traditional Games subforum.
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Jun 10, 2015 09:35
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Nemo2342 posted:After reading the article about him on Wikipedia, I'm going to pledge just to go along for the ride. You (and anyone else who's curious) should read the profile Kotaku did on him: 30 Years Later, One Man Is Still Trying To Fix Video Games. I think the guy is doomed to fail, but there's something admirable about his persistence.
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Jun 10, 2015 09:38
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Mr Underhill posted:Oh, alright. I got my first computer in '97 so I wouldn't know who the guy is. No offense to any of those people, it just seemed like they were exaggerating the way they delivered their little speeches for some reason, I guess it's just me. Part of the reason is that he hasn't had a new idea in 20 years. Siboot is a old trading game, with a bit of weird face reading thing. It gets tedious very very quickly. He's got a bit of a cult around him that quickly disintegrates whenever people realise just how much an ego maniac he is and how unworkable his ideas are. He drives for emotional connection in games, but designs games that are like interacting with someone on the spectrum. It's an almost purely mechanistic view of human interaction cloaked in aspirations towards art. In meantime, he's designed awful games, that suck as games and barely work as experiments. Anything he says should be taken with the awareness that he's really really bad at this stuff. Do you enjoy playing that weird game about a dinner party with a couple just about to break up, Facade? Then maybe you'll enjoy the 2d version of that except filtered by M.U.L.E.
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Jun 10, 2015 09:39
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Another way of describing Chris Crawford's games is to say they're all plot and character but no narrative.
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Jun 10, 2015 09:41
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His diagnosis is partially correct, but his treatment is impractical and can only really be implemented by a artificial general intelligence. And if that were possible, you'd be running into an ethical conundrum where you have a bunch of intelligent lifeforms enslaved to allow a bunch of fleshbags to act out their social fantasies using videogames. Also, I wonder what he thinks of Japanese VNs. He probably thinks they're horrible failures that, while capable of finding more commercial success than western attempts at interactive fiction, still can't effectively simulate social interactions. Phobophilia fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Jun 10, 2015 |
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Jun 10, 2015 09:57
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Phobophilia posted:His diagnosis is partially correct, but his treatment is impractical and can only really be implemented by a artificial general intelligence. And if that were possible, you'd be running into an ethical conundrum where you have a bunch of intelligent lifeforms enslaved to allow a bunch of fleshbags to act out their social fantasies using videogames. And this is the problem, his theories are bad from first principles. We don't create narrative to simulate social interactions. We create narrative for a whole bunch of reasons, many of them social in and of themselves. His dream is of Crusader Kings 2 but a version where you have to spend time analysing previous behaviour in order to guess how a character will react or behave. Problem is people cry at the end of The Last of Us, not when they finish playing Crusader Kings 2. There's simply a great deal more emotional connection and involvement, even though there's a great deal less player choice and volition. fez_machine fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jun 10, 2015 |
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Jun 10, 2015 10:09
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I respect Chris Crawford for his legacy, but I've never wanted to actually play his games. I don't think the word "emotion" should be mentioned in the same sentence as any of them, unless it appears directly after "lack of".
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Jun 10, 2015 10:12
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fez_machine posted:Part of the reason is that he hasn't had a new idea in 20 years. Siboot is a old trading game, with a bit of weird face reading thing. It gets tedious very very quickly.
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Jun 10, 2015 10:28
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fez_machine posted:And this is the problem, his theories are bad from first principles. We don't create narrative to simulate social interactions. My impression he's not going for melodrama, but trying to simulate the social leadership. So less number juggling, and more finding out which people are reliable to delegate tasks. Maybe a better comparison would be DXHR's social combat (a tiny part of that game).
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Jun 10, 2015 10:42
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It might be cool if someone succeded in what that guy is trying, but why would anyone be interested in a videogame that emulates social interaction, unless they were trying to escape the real deal? What's the intended audience, asteroid miners stuck alone on a space shuttle? Really popular games (Minecraft, WoW) get that way because you're interacting with actual people, not some crappy 3D model. The way you make artificial constructs interesting is by giving them a narrative.
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Jun 10, 2015 11:10
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quakster posted:It might be cool if someone succeded in what that guy is trying, but why would anyone be interested in a videogame that emulates social interaction The difficulty is hiding the mechanics so it's less obvious you're dealing with a bunch of rules and numbers where you can game the system.
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Jun 10, 2015 11:25
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Those sound like narratives to me. Then again, it seems that he's making a narrative construction kit of some sort (not really sure but sure sounds like it), so close enough. Just construct narratives with fellow people, like the Flying Spaghetti Jesus or whoever intended, don't need no digital people for that. This thing sounds like it's essentially made by a guy who really wants to have a kid he can play with. I hope he's got a family.
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Jun 10, 2015 11:39
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Trapezium Dave posted:Murder mysteries, political intrigue, diplomacy. Precisely. Board games or board-game-like games can simulate this, but then you have things like kingmaking and tableflipping and out-of-character behaviour that squelches the simulation. Also you need to co-ordinate a bunch of schedules from a number of human beings. So a computer game that can simulate these kinds of interactions would be a dream come true. But it's probably a pipe dream, and all we can achieve right now is an autistic shadow. And I mean autistic not as an insult: the AI is not capable of forming a mental model of the player and responding in a truly intelligent way. Phobophilia fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jun 10, 2015 |
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Jun 10, 2015 11:41
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quakster posted:Those sound like narratives to me. Then again, it seems that he's making a narrative construction kit of some sort (not really sure but sure sounds like it), so close enough. I'm mainly going from what I remember from about a decade ago when I studied up on storytelling and character AI. The problem I have with Crawford's kickstarter is that it looks pretty similar to the stuff I remember from back then. His work was always very heavily based on rules and very obvious mechanics, and I don't think that's where the difficulty is. The presentation is at least as important. It's all about providing that sleight-of-hand to provide the illusion that you're dealing with genuine characters, which requires an artistic touch. And in the past Crawford has been very bad at that, and unfortunately I didn't see much change in that pitch
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Jun 10, 2015 12:03
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Trapezium Dave posted:They are, or at least can be, and there have been attempts to generate narrative structures on the fly as well. I'm speaking in general here, not just Crawford's work. The problem they generally have is that once you loosen constraints or add more rules to your set, they fly off the rails and make really stupid stories. Even with a good artistic touch you're likely to get another God Will Be Watching, where the rules and mechanics aspect of the game mean it becomes an exercise in see through the obfuscation to see the rules as clearly as possible and then you've lost social believability. Unfortunately, Crawford focuses on giving the player the agency to control the plot of a story, where the success of Tell Tale Games' series of interactive visual novels, shows that a far more effective strategy for player involvement is interactive control of the narrative (or how the story is told). My bets are on people getting used to Tell Tale's slight of hand, where you don't have any real control over what happens, but still returning for the ability to add a personal flavour to what happens, and interactive storytelling evolving out from that.
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Jun 10, 2015 12:18
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Personally I think there is a lot of room in all directions in this area, and would love to see more promising projects in this. However I also believe it's an area where there is no one correct approach. It's an area where I could see a solo developer or very small team carve a whole bunch of very genre specific niches. I don't think giving player agency to the story is wrong in itself. Crawford's problem to me is more that he is still trying to prove the system he came up with decades ago is the One True Approach To All Stories Interactive.
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Jun 10, 2015 13:05
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kode54 posted:He has 134K followers. He said in the video that he had 125K. He gained 9K followers since posting that video. There has to be a way to make money off these people while keeping your own dignity intact.
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Jun 10, 2015 13:51
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I feel bad for the people who paid to be in the new Leisure Suit Larry.
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Jun 10, 2015 14:19
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Whatever, as long as they make his anthro character fit the visual style of the game it shouldn't be too unbearable. Why is it that Kickstarter whales always happen to be furries? This happened with Skullgirls too, a bunch of furries paid several grand to have their fursonas appear as background art.
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Jun 10, 2015 14:35
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Subject: Yes! Sethian - a sci-fi language puzzle game has been successfully funded!
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Jun 10, 2015 15:05
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Oxxidation posted:There has to be a way to make money off these people while keeping your own dignity intact. Dignity and a buck'll buy you a cup of coffee.
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Jun 10, 2015 15:07
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Cabbagepots posted:Whatever, as long as they make his anthro character fit the visual style of the game it shouldn't be too unbearable. Uh those fur suits and adult diapers don't come cheap dude. [e] Didn't Kaiju combat get a bunch macro fursonas from it's design a character tier? DrManiac fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jun 10, 2015 |
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Jun 10, 2015 15:08
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Cabbagepots posted:Why is it that Kickstarter whales always happen to be furries? This happened with Skullgirls too, a bunch of furries paid several grand to have their fursonas appear as background art. Furries, at least the older ones, have a long history of sitting on a whole lot of money and a whole lot less sense. Prior to sites like Furaffinity and Deviantart popping up, artists could make some serious dough adding a handful of 'tribal' elements (for the Werewolf: the Otherkin fanatics) to a piece and making the subject a lynx woman or whatever.
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Jun 10, 2015 15:19
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Truga posted:Subject: Yes! Sethian - a sci-fi language puzzle game has been successfully funded! I am so happy I don't even regret my tipsy choice of backing amount.
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Jun 10, 2015 15:33
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Tokyo Dark funded after just hitting it's anime cutscene stretch goal. So that'll be a thing that's happening next year.
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Jun 10, 2015 16:41
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Bieeardo posted:Furries, at least the older ones, have a long history of sitting on a whole lot of money and a whole lot less sense. Prior to sites like Furaffinity and Deviantart popping up, artists could make some serious dough adding a handful of 'tribal' elements (for the Werewolf: the Otherkin fanatics) to a piece and making the subject a lynx woman or whatever. furry commissions are still the most lucrative money to be made as a freelance artist
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Jun 10, 2015 17:29
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DolphinCop posted:furry commissions are still the most lucrative money to be made as a freelance artist I'd guess not just furry, but any sort of sick fetish poo poo will net an artist money on a semi-regular basis if they're good at it.
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Jun 10, 2015 17:58
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Good av/post combo.
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Jun 10, 2015 18:01
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KiddieGrinder posted:I'd guess not just furry, but any sort of sick fetish poo poo will net an artist money on a semi-regular basis if they're good at it. Yeah, but there's way more furries out there to bilk.
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Jun 10, 2015 18:21
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Well Umbra hit the multiplayer stretch goal just now and Bard's Tale just added digital copies of all 3 previous Bard's Tale games to anyone who backed it for $20 and more.
Lowtechs fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jun 11, 2015 |
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Jun 11, 2015 00:14
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The final stretchgoal in Bloodstained by a roguelike dungeon mode is interesting. I don't think they'll reach it, but still interesting!
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Jun 11, 2015 03:18
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Has Bloodstained's campaign mentioned whether their outside funding is proportional to the money they pull in from Kickstarter?
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Jun 11, 2015 08:46
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Anaxite posted:Has Bloodstained's campaign mentioned whether their outside funding is proportional to the money they pull in from Kickstarter? No, just that it was conditional. They finally found a publisher after a year of trying but they had to raise 10% of it on their own to show people would still want this type of game. At least according to Igarashi's interview here: http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/10/koji-igarashi-tells-us-all-about-bloodstaineds-leading-lady-miriam/ So esentially if they hit 5 mil they'll have doubled their budget.
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Jun 11, 2015 09:04
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I see now. It's not as good as I was hoping, but with the yen really weak right now hopefully the campaign will go a long way. 
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Jun 11, 2015 09:17
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They're predicting a small recovery in the immediate short term, so maybe not quite as much as they'd like once the campaign closes.
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Jun 11, 2015 09:53
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Good news for MN9 backers. Cross-buy for Sony platforms is available. Platform surveys will start next week and stay up until July 15th. http://www.mightyno9.com/en/20150611
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Jun 11, 2015 12:45
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Zaa Boogie posted:No, just that it was conditional. They finally found a publisher after a year of trying but they had to raise 10% of it on their own to show people would still want this type of game. At least according to Igarashi's interview here: This one's on track to pass up the current highest single video game Kickstarter (Torment at $4.1 million)
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Jun 11, 2015 14:31
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RightClickSaveAs posted:This one's on track to pass up the current highest single video game Kickstarter (Torment at $4.1 million) Hell, it already has. (It's at 4.25m as of right now)
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Jun 11, 2015 14:37
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RightClickSaveAs posted:That seems insane, publishers still need convincing that big names like him bringing back hugely popular franchises isn't something people just throw money at? No, but they understand that they can use crowdfunding campaigns to mitigate their financial layout and supplement their workload by getting fans to mobilise around their game and give them millions of dollars for the privilege of doing so. Oculus was the first example of that approach, I think, but it's really gonna kick off thanks to Bloodstained and I'm not looking forward to it at all.
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Jun 11, 2015 14:43
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