Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

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mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

hobbesmaster posted:

Does this help? http://eric-is-similar-to-epic-get-it.ytmnd.com/

Yes, absolutely!

:glomp:

# ? Jun 10, 2015 05:39

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# ? May 29, 2024 22:11

sugar free jazz: Mar 5, 2008

Had some dudes throw a party off campus and shine massive lights into my bedroom window at 4 AM from across the street during finals week gently caress em. This is why I am fine with this police officer's actions especially the gun pointing kind, stupid kids.

# ? Jun 10, 2015 05:41

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

All y'all kids bitching about not getting enough sleep must not work steady nights. Goddamn, its like the end of the world if there's a hint of noise.

# ? Jun 10, 2015 06:24

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Ravenfood posted:

All y'all kids bitching about not getting enough sleep must not work steady nights. Goddamn, its like the end of the world if there's a hint of noise.

I've worked nights, too. There are an untold number of times that I went to work after not having slept for 2 days.
I gotta tell ya, after a few days with no sleep it is the end of the world.

Why are they cutting the loving lawn at 10am?!?!? :argh:

# ? Jun 10, 2015 06:35

ChairMaster: Aug 22, 2009; by R. Guyovich

Dead Reckoning posted:

What I don't understand is why you continue to pay taxes that you know will end up in the pockets of these state sanctioned murderers.

I'm pretty sure that if you don't pay taxes long enough then you'll become one of their targets, so... I don't get your point.

Also I don't live in America so my taxes don't really go towards the American police.

# ? Jun 10, 2015 06:42

semper wifi: Oct 31, 2007

ChairMaster posted:

I'm pretty sure that if you don't pay taxes long enough then you'll become one of their targets, so... I don't get your point.

Also I don't live in America so my taxes don't really go towards the American police.

you're perpetuating the framework that these murderous thugs operate within!! you're an enabler, little better than the cops themselves..

# ? Jun 10, 2015 07:25

ChairMaster: Aug 22, 2009; by R. Guyovich

semper wifi posted:

you're perpetuating the framework that these murderous thugs operate within!! you're an enabler, little better than the cops themselves..

Sounds like more of a hostage situation, where they force you to pay them or you go to jail. It's kinda like if someone says they'll shoot you if you don't give them money and then you give them the money and somehow you're in the wrong for enabling them?

# ? Jun 10, 2015 07:30

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

semper wifi posted:

you're perpetuating the framework that these murderous thugs operate within!! you're an enabler, little better than the cops themselves..

I'm not sure why you decided to pick on him, and lol at your post. WTF are you talking about.
You even managed to use "thug", good for you.

Edit: Your sarcasm loving sucks.
Step up your game if you are going to be a lovely cop cock sucking troll.

Pohl fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Jun 10, 2015

# ? Jun 10, 2015 07:43

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

I really wanted to leave a comment about how they need an editor, but the comments are closed.

quote:

Eric Casebolt, the Texas police officer who threw a black girl to the ground and waved a gun at other teenagers others during a pool party incident that quickly went viral and led to protests, has resigned from the police force in McKinney, Texas.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/texas-police-officer-eric-casebolt-racial-profiling-lawsuit

Oh, and why not:

quote:

Casebolt will retain his pension and benefits.

Pohl fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jun 10, 2015

# ? Jun 10, 2015 08:09

Senf: Nov 12, 2006

Pohl posted:

Oh, and why not:

hahahaha gently caress the system gently caress everything burn it all

# ? Jun 10, 2015 08:19

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Pohl posted:

Oh, and why not:

So his display of violent racism got him the maximum promotion. Way better than "long paid vacation" he got "money forever".

That will sure learn those TX cops a thing or two!

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/texas-radio-host-cops-used-force-on-pool-party-jungle-animals-because-whites-were-scared-to-death/

quote:

Texas radio host: Cops used force on pool party �jungle animals� because whites were �scared to death�

# ? Jun 10, 2015 08:43

Zarkov Cortez: Aug 18, 2007; Alas, our kitten class attack ships were no match for their mighty chairs

This is pretty old, but maybe new for the thread since it's more America focused. Every time I end up coming across it I am surprised that there would be no repercussions to the officers involved (it appears at least one was subsequently promoted to sergeant) where this was actually found in the facts by the Judge.

http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/decisions/2013/2013ONCA0750.htm

Justice R.A. Blair in R v Singh, 2013 ONCA 750 posted:

Introduction

[1] Canadian society cannot tolerate � and the courts cannot permit � police officers to beat suspects in order to obtain confessions. Yet, sadly, that is precisely what happened in this case. One of the two police officers who participated in the beatings apparently thought, as he said, that �it�s part of [his] job� to do so.

[2] It is not.

[3] Respectfully, the trial judge erred in failing to grant a stay, and I would allow the appeal on that basis for the following reasons.

...

The Beatings

[10] The appellant testified that he was beaten on three separate occasions over an extended period of time, prior to giving what turned out to be a generally exculpatory statement. Three police officers were involved: Detective Constable Jamie Clark, Detective Steve Watts, and Detective Donald Belanger. D.C. Clark was the principal administrator of the actual beatings, while Detective Watts appears to have been the police presence in the room; he did nothing to intervene and did his best otherwise to persuade the appellant to confess. Detective Belanger�s role was that of �good cop� in relation to the interrogation of the appellant, although he appears to have been active as an aggressor in the case of Maharaj, who also testified on the stay hearing.

[11] The evidence of the appellant and Maharaj with respect to the assaults was not contested. None of the police officers testified and the Crown called no other evidence to counter that tendered on behalf of the appellant. Nor does the Crown contest that evidence on appeal. It therefore provides the factual framework for what actually happened.

The First Assault

[12] The appellant was arrested at his workplace on June 11, 2009, several months after the robbery occurred.

[13] After his arrest, D.C. Clark and Detective Watts brought the appellant to the police station and placed the appellant in an interrogation room. They strip searched him, and then left him alone. About 15 minutes later they returned and began questioning the appellant about the robbery. The appellant denied any involvement. He also denied knowing Maharaj (a statement that was not true).

[14] D.C Clark responded violently to these denials. He struck the appellant on the back of the head five or six times and kneed him in the ribs once or twice, all the while telling the appellant he was lying about not knowing Maharaj. The attack lasted for up to two minutes, during which the appellant was pinned against the wall of the interrogation room. D.C. Clark and Detective Watts then left the room.

[15] About five minutes later, Detective Belanger came into the room. The appellant described him as nice and seemingly genuinely concerned. Detective Belanger told the appellant that �[he should] make sure [he had] something to say or else they�re coming back�. The appellant denied knowing anything about the robbery. Detective Belanger left the room simply shaking his head.

The Second Assault

[16] Sometime later, D.C. Clark and Detective Watts re-appeared. They asked if the appellant was ready to talk. He told them that he ready to talk, but not about the robbery since he knew nothing about it.

[17] D.C. Clark again responded with force.

[18] He grabbed the appellant�s neck, squeezing his throat and slamming his head against the wall. He said to the appellant: �This is what it feels like when you wave guns in people�s faces.� The squeezing was forceful enough that the appellant was unable to breathe and felt that he was about to black out, but D.C. Clark let go before he did. The punching continued, however. D.C. Clark hit the appellant forcefully on the back with his fist several times, and demanded that the appellant tell them what happened in the robbery. Finally the officers left. As they did they stated �I bet you would talk if Randy [Maharaj] was here�, and said they would be back.

[19] Detective Belanger later returned. The appellant was crying. Detective Belanger advised him to �tell them something, tell them anything or else they�re going to come back.� Receiving no response, he left.

The Third Assault

[20] Ten or fifteen minutes later Detective Watts and D.C. Clark opened the door and said �Look.� Maharaj was between them. The door then closed and the appellant was left alone again. Maharaj corroborated this in his testimony, observing that the appellant looked as though he had been in a fight.

[21] Sometime later, Detective Watts and D.C. Clark returned to the interrogation room. D.C. Clark told the appellant he was lying, and claimed Maharaj had given a statement implicating the appellant in the robbery. The appellant denied he was lying. D.C. Clark then asked: �What does zip ties mean?�[1] The appellant said he didn�t know. D.C. Clark then began to administer another prolonged beating, hitting the appellant forcefully on the back of the head and on his back many times � sometimes with an open fist, sometimes with a closed fist. He testified he was in such pain at the time that he felt he could not go on and began to beg the officers just to kill him.

[22] The officers then left the room.

The Apology

[23] An hour later, D.C. Clark returned alone. He apologized to the appellant, saying: �I am sorry for what I did to you. It�s part of my job.� At this point D.C. Clark gave the appellant a bottle of water, a chicken sandwich and a towel. He told the appellant he believed him but wanted the appellant to make a statement on video.

...

The Maharaj Assaults

[26] Randy Maharaj was also beaten. While the stay here is not sought in relation to the charges against him � as noted, the Crown voluntarily sought a stay of those proceedings � the Maharaj assaults are relevant for the light they shed upon the pattern of conduct of the police officers involved.

[27] D.C. Clark was once again the principal actor in the assaults, but Detective Belanger participated as well. This time it was Detective Watts who played the �good cop� role.

[28] After being given the opportunity to speak with duty counsel, Maharaj was taken from the interrogation room, where he saw the appellant, who, according to Maharaj, appeared as if he had been in a fight. He was then returned to the interrogation room, where he was initially reluctant to make a video statement based on his advice from duty counsel, but changed his mind and agreed to make a statement on videotape. However, after being moved to the video room, he changed his mind and advised D.C. Clark and Detective Belanger that he did not wish to make a video statement. In his words, �that didn�t go over too well.�

[29] D.C. Clark reacted violently again. He grabbed Maharaj, pulled him out of his chair, and dragged him into an adjoining room � undoubtedly one without a video camera � where he pushed Maharaj to the ground, fell on top of him, and began punching him in the ribs for an extended period of time. At the same time, Detective Belanger attempted to grab hold of Maharaj�s leg and step on his testicles. D.C. Clark added an oral element to the intimidation and assault: he said, �[O]h, you don�t want to make a statement? You don�t want to make a statement? You�re going to make a statement. We�ll make sure you make a statement � I hope you�re tougher than your buddy.� As the trial judge noted, Maharaj screamed loudly enough that someone opened the door, and the beating stopped.

[30] Maharaj was then returned to the original interrogation room, and then escorted to the room where the beatings occurred. There, Maharaj was shown a portion of the appellant�s videotaped statement. D.C. Clark and Detective Belanger assured Maharaj that �[his] buddy [had] talked. He told us everything. Now you�re [screwed].� While being escorted back to the original holding room, Maharaj was intercepted by Detective Watts who requested to speak to Maharaj alone. He was advised by Detective Watts that he should make a statement because, if he did not, Detective Watts would not be able to protect him from Detective Belanger and D.C. Clark. Maharaj testified that, fearing another beating, he agreed to give a statement. He was told that if he did so, he should say that he did not wish to have counsel.

[31] Maharaj gave an inculpatory statement, admitting his involvement in the robbery (which he later said was not true). He required medical attention for various bumps, scratches and bruises and sore ribs. X-rays subsequently revealed that he had suffered an acute fracture to the seventh rib on his left side.

The Crown Evidence with respect to the Beatings

[32] It bears repeating that none of the foregoing evidence was contradicted or contested by the Crown. The primary argument appears to have been that the appellant was not permanently injured (and may have been exaggerating his injuries) and therefore was not the victim of police misconduct sufficiently serious to warrant a stay of proceedings.

...

Analysis

...

[43] What occurred here was not a momentary overreaction by a police officer caught up in the moment of a difficult interrogation. What occurred here was the administration of a calculated, prolonged and skillfully choreographed investigative technique developed by these officers to secure evidence. This technique involved the deliberate and repeated use of intimidation, threats and violence, coupled with what can only be described as a systematic breach of the constitutional rights of detained persons � including the denial of their rights to counsel.² It would be na�ve to suppose that this type of egregious conduct, on the part of these officers, would be confined to an isolated incident.

[44] The courts must not condone such an approach to interrogation. Real life in the police services is not a television drama. What took place here sullies the reputations of the many good officers in our country, whose work is integral to the safety and security of our society.

[45] Nor does it appear that these officers have been called to account in any meaningful way, although the trial judge made it plain that, in her view, they should be. We were told that an internal investigation was undertaken by the police but that it ceased when the victims, not surprisingly, were unwilling to cooperate. Crown counsel was not able to advise of any charges, disciplinary measures, or other consequences flowing from the investigation.

[46] Yet the police had provided no response to the testimony of the appellant and Maharaj on the stay hearing. Indeed, they have not done so to this day. The absence of any meaningful disciplinary measures is telling, in my view, because the inability or refusal of the police to muster a pointed response in the face of such unchallenged allegations of serious criminal conduct by state actors during a criminal investigation makes the case for a stay under the residual category all the more compelling. Just as the fabrication of evidence by the police violates the integrity of the administration of justice, so too does the police misconduct in question here. Notwithstanding the absence of prejudice to trial fairness, this is, in my view, the very type of conduct �that the mere act of carrying forward in the light of it would constitute a new and ongoing abuse sufficient to warrant a stay of proceedings.�

...

² Indeed, the conduct in this case might well be characterized as �torture� as that term is defined in s. 269.1(2) of the Criminal Code.

Zarkov Cortez fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Jun 10, 2015

# ? Jun 10, 2015 13:46

hallebarrysoetoro: Jun 14, 2003

Pohl posted:

Why are they cutting the loving lawn at 10am?!?!?

Mid-late morning is considered the best time to mow the lawn if the roots are properly established. Basically the second the dew has evaporated off the grass so your mower doesn't rip at the grass rather than cutting it cleanly. It gives the lawn the most amount of time to recover before sundown when fungus/moss/diseases thrive. Evening I'd argue is fine, and probably best for younger lawns that are vulnerable to scorching.

# ? Jun 10, 2015 15:07

Faustian Bargain: Apr 12, 2014

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/10/us/baltimore-police-officers-interview/index.html

Choice quotes:

quote:

The second officer talked about compliance and said the officers involved did "nothing wrong."

"If you're compliant, you will not have to be engaged by officers. Force has to be used with equal force," he said.

Authorities have said that Gray bolted after making eye contact with officers at an area known for high crime and drug activity.

The video does not show the entire confrontation between Gray and the officers, but nothing in the footage suggests Gray used any force against the officers. In fact, Baltimore Deputy Police Commissioner Jerry Rodriguez has that said Gray "gave up without the use of force."

Maybe Gray was running away for fear of being murdered by cops for doing nothing wrong?

quote:

"Everybody has lost something because of this," he said about Gray's death.

When asked what the officers lost, he replied: "Their lives. I mean, they will never be able to go back to their normal life at this point. It doesn't matter if they're exonerated, which they should be. It doesn't matter. This is a life-changing event, which can't be turned back around."

Get hosed. They are at least still alive, unlike Gray.

# ? Jun 10, 2015 15:37

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

Once again we are supposed to feel sorry for the killers because the justice system is just so rough. Ignore that the person they killed would have been treated worse even if they weren't dead.

I'd love for that guy to say the totally reasonable explanation how a man gets his spine broken in custody that exonerates the people responsible.

Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jun 10, 2015

# ? Jun 10, 2015 15:39

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

hallebarrysoetoro posted:

Mid-late morning is considered the best time to mow the lawn if the roots are properly established. Basically the second the dew has evaporated off the grass so your mower doesn't rip at the grass rather than cutting it cleanly. It gives the lawn the most amount of time to recover before sundown when fungus/moss/diseases thrive. Evening I'd argue is fine, and probably best for younger lawns that are vulnerable to scorching.

I was talking about people that work nights and need to sleep during the day but I appreciate your post.

# ? Jun 10, 2015 15:48

CheesyDog: Jul 4, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Mods please change the thread title to "Let's debate about You drat Kids Get off My Lawn"

# ? Jun 10, 2015 15:55

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

Pohl posted:

quote:
Casebolt will retain his pension and benefits.

How the hell does this work? I get keeping the accrued value of his pension, but is there any other job in the world that will let you keep your benefits after quitting (not retiring)?

# ? Jun 10, 2015 16:11

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

How the hell does this work? I get keeping the accrued value of his pension, but is there any other job in the world that will let you keep your benefits after quitting (not retiring)?

I really don't mind it that much. What bothers me is the limited people that have access to pensions and benefits.
A crazy cop has a great retirement plan after planting a young black girl on the sidewalk, but no one else does?

That pisses me off. Let him keep his pension, but why doesn't everyone else have one?

drat, quote is being all crazy.

# ? Jun 10, 2015 16:28

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

He most likely has to pay for the benefits but at a discounted rate. In many states public employees can "retire" by resigning and keep their accrued pension and if they choose to contribute the few hundred a month to their benefit package, they get to keep it also.

Odds are that the dude's pension at this point is like 500-800 a month, an he pays like 150 for the bennies.
It really doesn't bother me that much, but as mentioned, the whole country should get that poo poo.

# ? Jun 10, 2015 16:40

SpeedGem: Sep 19, 2012; by Ralp

Now for a new dose of rage.

Little Rock police slam non-violent blind man to the street. Guess his race.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/10/1392030/-Little-Rock-police-slam-non-violent-blind-man-to-the-street-Guess-his-race

I mean come the gently caress on.

# ? Jun 10, 2015 23:46

NoEyedSquareGuy: Mar 16, 2009; Just because Liquor's dead, doesn't mean you can just roll this bitch all over town with "The Freedoms."

SpeedGem posted:

Little Rock police slam non-violent blind man to the street. Guess his race.

Hooray.

I won the challenge.

# ? Jun 10, 2015 23:57

semper wifi: Oct 31, 2007

SpeedGem posted:

Now for a new dose of rage.

Little Rock police slam non-violent blind man to the street. Guess his race.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/10/1392030/-Little-Rock-police-slam-non-violent-blind-man-to-the-street-Guess-his-race

I mean come the gently caress on.

Seems like there's no reason for them to be cuffing him at all there, but really calling that a "slam" is a pretty big exaggeration, the average toddler falls down harder than that. Plus the cop doing the "slamming" is black.

# ? Jun 11, 2015 00:21

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

semper wifi posted:

Plus the cop doing the "slamming" is black.

By all means go on. I want to see where this is gonna end :allears:

# ? Jun 11, 2015 01:47

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

semper wifi posted:

Plus the cop doing the "slamming" is black.

"Plus"? Is this meant to be evidence of something?

# ? Jun 11, 2015 02:23

Rah!: Feb 21, 2006

SedanChair posted:

"Plus"? Is this meant to be evidence of something?

The cop was black too so there's no way he could be doing anything wrong. And sometimes little kids fall down accidentally, so it's already OK that a blind man was dropped by the cops for no reason.

Checkmate cop haters :smug:

# ? Jun 11, 2015 02:53

Booourns: Jan 20, 2004; Please send a report when you see me complain about other posters and threads outside of QCS

~thanks!

Toddlers fall down all the time, why you getting on a cops case for just throwing a non violent person to the ground!?

# ? Jun 11, 2015 03:14

semper wifi: Oct 31, 2007

SedanChair posted:

"Plus"? Is this meant to be evidence of something?

tezcat posted:

By all means go on. I want to see where this is gonna end

I mean if you want to go at it with a racist police slammin are black people slant it doesn't really work if the guy doing the slamming is black himself, right?

# ? Jun 11, 2015 03:48

SpeedGem: Sep 19, 2012; by Ralp

i got arrested today for refusing to show me id.

# ? Jun 11, 2015 03:53

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

semper wifi posted:

I mean if you want to go at it with a racist police slammin are black people slant it doesn't really work if the guy doing the slamming is black himself, right?

All evidence shows that black officers take on the characteristics of the system and are actually more racist than most of their white counterparts, so no. You are dumb.

# ? Jun 11, 2015 04:10

ToastyPotato: Jun 23, 2005; CONVICTED OF DISPLAYING HIS PEANUTS IN PUBLIC

semper wifi posted:

I mean if you want to go at it with a racist police slammin are black people slant it doesn't really work if the guy doing the slamming is black himself, right?

I guess that is a point assuming you just ignore what systemic racism is and how it functions. Then I guess you have a point.

# ? Jun 11, 2015 04:10

semper wifi: Oct 31, 2007

how many times did you tell the cop about your sovereign citizenship though?

# ? Jun 11, 2015 04:11

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

semper wifi posted:

I mean if you want to go at it with a racist police slammin are black people slant it doesn't really work if the guy doing the slamming is black himself, right?

It works fine. The system is racist, and any black cop has to earn his bones. How do you think a black cop who goes easy on black people fares in his department?

# ? Jun 11, 2015 04:11

semper wifi: Oct 31, 2007

Pohl posted:

All evidence shows that black officers take on the characteristics of the system and are actually more racist than most of their white counterparts, so no. You are dumb.

the NWA school of rhetoric, i like it very impressive

ToastyPotato posted:

I guess that is a point assuming you just ignore what systemic racism is and how it functions. Then I guess you have a point.

SedanChair posted:

It works fine. The system is racist, and any black cop has to earn his bones. How do you think a black cop who goes easy on black people fares in his department?

But I thought we were mad about the super slam though, and not the system? how's the system relevant to that particular takedown anyway?

# ? Jun 11, 2015 04:14

Zarkov Cortez: Aug 18, 2007; Alas, our kitten class attack ships were no match for their mighty chairs

semper wifi posted:

how many times did you tell the cop about your sovereign citizenship though?

The officer refused to look at my binder.

# ? Jun 11, 2015 04:27

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

I think an interview with a black ex-cop may help here.

It won't help semper wifi. Just everyone else.

# ? Jun 11, 2015 04:27

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

semper wifi posted:

But I thought we were mad about the super slam though, and not the system? how's the system relevant to that particular takedown anyway?

Are you somehow unable to understand how systemic issues manifest in specific incidents?

# ? Jun 11, 2015 04:55

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

SedanChair posted:

Are you somehow unable to understand how systemic issues manifest in specific incidents?

Wherein he proves that he really doesn't understand jack poo poo and overarching theories on policing or power are beyond his comprehension.

# ? Jun 11, 2015 05:01

hallebarrysoetoro: Jun 14, 2003

Pohl posted:

I was talking about people that work nights and need to sleep during the day but I appreciate your post.

Lawn chat never comes up in D&D so I had to force the subject :smith:

In other news, another unarmed person shot by the police. The deceased made a "quick advance" toward the cop after a low-speed chase. Sounds like a textbook case of He Was No Angel. Oh, the cop was sitting in her patrol car and just shot out from behind her window.

# ? Jun 11, 2015 05:03

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# ? May 29, 2024 22:11

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

hallebarrysoetoro posted:

Oh, the cop was sitting in her patrol car and just shot out from behind her window.

Saves time. Don't even have to open the door, just drive right on to the next shooting. Solid police work.

# ? Jun 11, 2015 05:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

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