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Night10194 posted:The worst thing about the 'Batman Doesn't Kill' thing is how all these stories turn that one legitimately positive character trait into a weakness by hammering it over and over. They make it entirely too easy to agree that yes, Bats just really enjoys his dances with his buddies and doesn't really care who else gets hurt. 'I don't kill people' should not be something that should be made to look like nothing but foolhardy weakness. They did this with The Riddler for a minute actually. He became a detective. It was a nice addition to the character. Maybe Catwoman is supposed to be this as well? You're absolutely right though. I hear Gordon say stuff like "Show him our way works" in The Killing Joke and have to roll my eyes. Does your way work, Gordon? The guys at the top of Batman should take like 2-3 big villains and reform them. It'd be easy to do with Harvey and Nygma and the villains who are fringe crazy as opposed to like Hush and Joker who are batshit insane. The Video: I have to admit, it's funny that Bats just has to say "I didn't do it." and Gordon, even skeptical just met Batman Gordon is like "Alright." I wasn't a fan of TN-1. I would very much appreciate it if Arkham Knight didn't do anything with Titan. This game didn't have to. I'm starting to get frustrated again. This was supposed to be some kind of free slate. It's a prequel, so they could've gone in literally any direction. There's no time frame given on how long Bruce has been Batman in Asylum, so they could've told any story. Instead they told another Joker story that had Titan in it where Bane runs at you and there's canisters you blow up with explosive gel and on and on with retread stuff. That's the disappointment. They had a clean sheet of paper and requested a stencil out of pure laziness is what it feels like. Granted they had time constraints, but drat. I appreciate the attempt to make the final boss fight with Bane be kind of a Mr. Freeze kind of thing, but after the original it doesn't really hold up. The best part of it is the atmosphere. They put you in a predator type situation with a guy who can and will obliterate you. And as much as it feels like you're stalking Bane, it also feels like he's stalking you. Watching Batman fight with Gordon, I have to ask the thread. How much can I complain about the lack of a Robin DLC mission/story pack before it gets old? They did the character development of Bruce admitting he needs help, they have posters up of the Flying Graysons coming soon, the DLC takes place after the main story. Come on! I actually let Joker finish his monologue once, because I was curious. He actually does shoot you after a time if I'm remembering it right. That sucked. It was worth it though once you got to beat him down. That was satisfying as all hell. I would've liked it better without the drat sound though. "Come on, baby! Beat me til your knuckles bleed!" Why does every writer want Batman and Joker to go full  whenever they lock eyes?
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Jun 7, 2015 20:10
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SonicRulez posted:I would've liked it better without the drat sound though. "Come on, baby! Beat me til your knuckles bleed!" Why does every writer want Batman and Joker to go full Serious House on Serious Earth. They had Joker going full gay panic.
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Jun 7, 2015 21:12
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The problem with the Joker is every time he shows up they make the Punisher look like a reasonable person with a better approach to crime-fighting than Batman, which is insane and counter to the intended point of both Batman and the Punisher. At least, that's the sense I get from the Punisher thread, that the intention with him is that he's supposed to be genuinely broken, fighting symptoms instead of causes, and that his brutality might be cathartic to an audience used to the Batman not only letting the Joker live but going out of his way to stop him from dying, but doesn't really accomplish anything.
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Jun 7, 2015 21:22
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Night10194 posted:The problem with the Joker is every time he shows up they make the Punisher look like a reasonable person with a better approach to crime-fighting than Batman, which is insane and counter to the intended point of both Batman and the Punisher. I think the difference too is, Batman lives on the edge of being a homicidal maniac, it's been proven time and time again that without influences like Alfred, the various Robins, Batgirl/Oracle etc. he'd be no better than the Joker. His whole crusade stems from childhood trauma. I won't go into the whole deconstruction of his character as Serious House On Serious Earth did it well. Suffice it to say, Punisher seems like a Batman that said, gently caress it, criminals suck and therefore when I see a criminal I'm going to waste him because they don't deserve second chances whereas Batman needs to believe that his rogues gallery will someday manage to be worthy of the million chances he gives in order to stay sane.
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Jun 7, 2015 21:28
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Discendo Vox posted:Serious House on Serious Earth. They had Joker going full gay panic. IIRC, they were gonna dress him up as Madonna too, wearing this outfit, purely so they could hammer in some point about motherhood and Psycho (among the other themes that Grant Morrison endlessly wanks himself over in that comic). In the end they just stuck to Joker goosing Batman, and flirting I guess.
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Jun 7, 2015 21:32
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SonicRulez posted:Why does every writer want Batman and Joker to go full Because it's edgy and transgressive in DC's eyes, mostly. DC in general and Batman in particular tend to treat homosexuality very badly - besides Batman and Joker, they keep making Harley Quinn lesbian-but-not-really-because-she'll-never-leave-the-Joker with Poison Ivy, who's a godawful mess of issues depicting women herself without making her Harley Quinn's on-and-off lover.
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Jun 7, 2015 22:07
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Cythereal posted:they keep making Harley Quinn lesbian-but-not-really-because-she'll-never-leave-the-Joker with Poison Ivy, who's a godawful mess of issues depicting women herself without making her Harley Quinn's on-and-off lover. What. Why.
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Jun 7, 2015 22:09
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Night10194 posted:What. Why. Not a comics readers, but apparently it's a thing in Harley Quinn focused comics called Gotham Angels or some such. I hope I've just been hoodwinked and that isn't official DC material, but considering how they treat the Joker I kinda doubt that.
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Jun 7, 2015 22:14
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Night10194 posted:What. Why. Well it started with a BtAS episode "Harley and Ivy"...
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Jun 7, 2015 22:21
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This episode (and one I guess will pop up next) pretty much emphasize the big issue I have with Origins. I obviously don't have the hate-on for the game that some people like Discendo Vox do (although as previously stated I got real lucky dodging glitches), but the end of the game really made me see clearly how much better the game could have been if it were just its own game and didn't try to stick in the Arkham Asylum/City "canon". I've always thought Bane being a smart guy was an overlooked aspect of his character in the cartoons and in games, but here he is being a mastermind who figures out Batman's identity, breaks into the Batcave, and nearly kills Alfred! Brilliant! ...And then he basically injects himself with "dumb juice" so he can not only forget Batman's identity, but so he can Hulk out and look like Rocksteady's stupidly huge Bane design. Harley meets and falls for Joker. Deathstroke gets written out of the plot since he won't be seen in the next two games! It's like the game tries right at the end to "put all the toys back in the toybox" and reset everything back to Arkham status quo so nothing contradicts Rocksteady's plot. Don't get me wrong, the game would still have plenty of problems (I'm sure many of them still glitch-wise) but I think if WB Montreal were just allowed to go wild with making their own plot, there might've been a much better game as a result.Crystalgate posted:Later Batman is saying "Gotham deserves better" as an explanation for not killing Joker. Gotham deserves better than what? A dead Joker? Does Gotham deserve an alive Joker? Obviously no universe deserves an alive Joker, but Batman saying "Gotham deserves better" is in response to Gordon mentioning that his guys would've totally shot Joker even when they had him dead to rights. Batman is reasserting his point that the GCPD is crooked as hell and that Gotham deserves better. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 00:39
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Better still, make it so that Origins happens more than a handful of years before Asylum. Bane can still roid up and become ugly in the future, but this game didn't need to end with that. That kind of limits their options for possible future Montreal Arkham games. I mean, what if reception to this version of Bane was positive and they decided to make another Arkham game? Can't use smart Bane anymore because now he's Hulk-lite. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 00:57
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Better still, make it so that Origins happens more than a handful of years before Asylum. Well, they could always dehulkify him like they did to the Joker in Arkham City. It wasn't a good plot point (in either case), but there's all sorts of comic book logic they can use here.
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Jun 9, 2015 02:44
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caleramaen posted:Well, they could always dehulkify him like they did to the Joker in Arkham City. It wasn't a good plot point (in either case), but there's all sorts of comic book logic they can use here. Bane actually starts dehulkified in Arkham Asylum, and mentions that they "drained the Venom from him" before his boss fight. Which Origins kinds of complicates because, like, in Asylum, aren't Venom and Titan two completely distinct things? If I remember correctly, the Titan reveal is a major plot twist because it's a refined version of Bane's blood. Wouldn't his blood already be tainted by the proto-Titan from Origins?
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Jun 9, 2015 02:54
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TwoPair posted:This episode (and one I guess will pop up next) pretty much emphasize the big issue I have with Origins. I obviously don't have the hate-on for the game that some people like Discendo Vox do (although as previously stated I got real lucky dodging glitches), but the end of the game really made me see clearly how much better the game could have been if it were just its own game and didn't try to stick in the Arkham Asylum/City "canon". I've always thought Bane being a smart guy was an overlooked aspect of his character in the cartoons and in games, but here he is being a mastermind who figures out Batman's identity, breaks into the Batcave, and nearly kills Alfred! Brilliant! ...And then he basically injects himself with "dumb juice" so he can not only forget Batman's identity, but so he can Hulk out and look like Rocksteady's stupidly huge Bane design. Harley meets and falls for Joker. Deathstroke gets written out of the plot since he won't be seen in the next two games! It's like the game tries right at the end to "put all the toys back in the toybox" and reset everything back to Arkham status quo so nothing contradicts Rocksteady's plot. Don't get me wrong, the game would still have plenty of problems (I'm sure many of them still glitch-wise) but I think if WB Montreal were just allowed to go wild with making their own plot, there might've been a much better game as a result. A lot of the problems in the plot appear to have predated the Joker Inclusion- things were always going to be something of a mess. Quoting myself from the Arkham thread, on the impossibility of writing a good Bane: Unintelligent Bane is pretty much the only way to write the character if he's not the main antagonist. Bane is essentially a Mary Sue villain- a genre-savvy hyperintelligent charismatic leader superstrong tactician with nebulously unlimited support, and a plot device glowing AO actually arguably depicted Bane's addiction accurately, but it's not clear that was intentional. Sef! posted:Bane actually starts dehulkified in Arkham Asylum, and mentions that they "drained the Venom from him" before his boss fight. Which Origins kinds of complicates because, like, in Asylum, aren't Venom and Titan two completely distinct things? If I remember correctly, the Titan reveal is a major plot twist because it's a refined version of Bane's blood. Wouldn't his blood already be tainted by the proto-Titan from Origins? I think the idea is that that's where they got it.
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Jun 9, 2015 04:08
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I can't help but wonder what kind of procedures they were doing at Arkham that required you to literally become the Hulk to survive. Unless they were planning on toning down the formula, but Joker added  to keep the Hulk effect.
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Jun 9, 2015 05:00
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I can't help but wonder what kind of procedures they were doing at Arkham that required you to literally become the Hulk to survive. It's an unfinished formula that the Joker finished himself until results were to his liking. It was never finished in Origins, and the Joker tests it out on inmates until he "perfects" it. The joker is a borderline-suicidal crazy person who interprets pain, suffering, and tragedy as comedy, mind you. The closest it has been is AC, where Bane wants to perfect what the Joker completed, but Batman destroys the last few canisters and subdues Bane.
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Jun 9, 2015 05:06
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death .cab for qt posted:It's an unfinished formula that the Joker finished himself until results were to his liking. It was never finished in Origins, and the Joker tests it out on inmates until he "perfects" it. The joker is a borderline-suicidal crazy person who interprets pain, suffering, and tragedy as comedy, mind you. I hated Bane in AC, that whole sidequest was idiotic. Seriously, did Bane think that Batman was going to let him get away with managing to steal the Titan to perfect it and did Batman not realize that Bane was going to betray him?
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Jun 9, 2015 05:45
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To be fair, I'm pretty sure Batman was baiting Bane into collecting the other containers the whole time. I believe he even says as much the whole time. My favorite part of that sidequest are the lines before the team up fight. Batman: "I've destroyed the canisters, Bane." Bane: "Good, now we-" -Goons run in- Bane: "Help me, Batman. We must not allow these puppets to take the TITAN." He literally tells Batman "I've collected the TITAN instead of destroying it" right before the fight.
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Jun 9, 2015 07:18
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Discendo Vox posted:Serious House on Serious Earth. They had Joker going full gay panic. Someone forgot about Dark Knight Returns: "Batman. Dear!" I think the original intention was to show that he views his relationship with Batman as a really intimate one, where they know each other better than anyone else, more than even lovers. Of course, that's gotta mean that he's for Batman!Bane is written well when, instead of the Venom angle, the writers go with his world-view: Since he was born and raised in a prison, he sees all of the world as just a larger prison. So he has to become the head-inmate of wherever he is, by surpassing all the other menaces. I like Bane because, unlike the other Batman villains, his insanity is not manic or compulsive, but this twisted, deliberate thing that kinda makes sense when seen from the right angle. Just like Ra's al-Ghul's "cleanse the earth" thing.
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Jun 9, 2015 07:55
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Bane is so used to being King poo poo of gently caress Mountain that it's just a reflex these days; he doesn't even think about it anymore.
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Jun 9, 2015 09:02
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death .cab for qt posted:The closest it has been is AC, where Bane wants to perfect what the Joker completed, but Batman destroys the last few canisters and He must've thought he was back in prison and gave up. Like when you put a sheet over a bird and it thinks it's night.
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Jun 9, 2015 09:36
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Dariusknight posted:and did Batman not realize that Bane was going to betray him? Bats final lines in that quest are him saying; 'I knew I couldn't trust you, so I used you to round up the last titan here, so I can destroy it'. So yes, yes he did realise that.
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Jun 9, 2015 14:52
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I suddenly realize I've been neglecting the campaign challenges. This is the last regular challenge map, the next six will be two regular campaigns and then the extreme challenge campaigns. Also! This is sort of the start of the roundup. This is getting the last Enigma informant and finishing off the crime scene investigations. It's...decent stuff.  Setting The Table/Polsy Combat Challenge: Panopticon/Polsy with New 52 Graphic Batman
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Jun 9, 2015 18:49
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Kal-L posted:Someone forgot about Dark Knight Returns: "Batman. Dear!" It was an intentional choice. drat you.
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Jun 9, 2015 21:09
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Huh, it took you that long to get the bat dialogue? That was one of the first ones I got. I was very sad when we didn't get a Manbat fight.
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Jun 9, 2015 21:48
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"Rewind. Enhance."
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Jun 9, 2015 22:12
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Kloro posted:"Rewind. Enhance." Probably my favorite part. Just hearing that little thunk when it connects makes the scene. 
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Jun 9, 2015 22:15
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i like the part where, after vowing to put a stop to prison brutality, batman kicks a man in the neck
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Jun 9, 2015 22:29
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I'd blocked out that last Most Wanted since it doesn't really feature a villain. There's no reason to have 20 escapees. It's not that Arkham games aren't fun to fight in, it's just that 20 guys exposes how repetitive things can get. They could've gotten the point across with 5 or so. And kept the GCPD from being so wildly incompetent that they let 20 guys break out of prison.
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Jun 9, 2015 23:02
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a cartoon duck posted:i like the part where, after vowing to put a stop to prison brutality, batman kicks a man in the neck Brutality is only fun when he gets to do it, damnit.
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Jun 9, 2015 23:07
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Yes, yes, Bane breaking Batman's back was very cool. There's absolutely no reason to have one of his thugs refer to Batman as 'the one who must be broken.'
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Jun 9, 2015 23:14
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SonicRulez posted:I'd blocked out that last Most Wanted since it doesn't really feature a villain. There's no reason to have 20 escapees. It's not that Arkham games aren't fun to fight in, it's just that 20 guys exposes how repetitive things can get. They could've gotten the point across with 5 or so. And kept the GCPD from being so wildly incompetent that they let 20 guys break out of prison. Honestly, I'd have preferred a sidequest that ended in, like, Crazy Quilt. Or Condiment King. Just some wacky goofball to cap off all of the assassin stuff.
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Jun 10, 2015 00:08
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Honestly, I'd have preferred a sidequest that ended in, like, Crazy Quilt. Or Condiment King. I've become convinced that Rocksteady should just hire you. I can't imagine any way they could implement that where it wouldn't be the best addition to the Arkham series. I just couldn't help but to love Kevin Conroy say "It looks like a series of fancy quilts have been stolen" completely seriously. Then have to say "Crazy Quilt. I should've known it was you." followed by a boss fight. Just the idea of that being played straight is worth $60 to me.
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Jun 10, 2015 00:15
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I realized during the Joker beatdown that Batman's arm blades are an extremely bad idea considering his no-kill policy. Watch the video in slow motion around 17:45. If that was anyone but the Joker, those punches would have torn out the victim's jugular vein. 
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Jun 11, 2015 06:19
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I *think* those are supposed to be batarangs. Which, as everyone knows, are sharpened to a fine stunning edge.
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Jun 11, 2015 06:35
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VostokProgram posted:I realized during the Joker beatdown that Batman's arm blades are an extremely bad idea considering his no-kill policy. Watch the video in slow motion around 17:45. If that was anyone but the Joker, those punches would have torn out the victim's jugular vein. Wanna know how I got these scars?
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Jun 11, 2015 08:30
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drat I'm tired. Work is hard. Anyway. Here's the first Riddler Roundup. I've got the next one recorded but I don't have the audio covered yet.   Enigma Escapades/Polsy with Discendo Vox - Cyrus Pinkney diaries Campaign Challenge: Destroyer/Polsy with Bruce Wayne
dscruffy1 fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jun 11, 2015 |
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Jun 11, 2015 18:03
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The ballsiest goon in all of Gotham. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpyOfjsIFA4
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Jun 11, 2015 19:10
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dscruffy1 posted:
I hadn't noticed before now how pointlessly huge the manhole is outside the prison. Man, that area was rushed. I also liked how the electricity particle effect was flowing through Bruce's nonexistent gauntlets shortly after you took down the cattleprod enemy. Remaining video notes coming probably this weekend.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:05
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dscruffy1 posted:drat I'm tired. Work is hard. Anyway. Here's the first Riddler Roundup. I've got the next one recorded but I don't have the audio covered yet. Anyone want to volunteer to talk about Bat-things for an hour? You laugh, but check yer DMs. I am perfectly up for talkin' Enigmas and other stuff. 
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