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Angry Grimace posted:He's saying people thought Narset was good because they were thinking how good she would have been in last season's UW deck with Supreme Verdict without considering that 1) the good cards in UW rotated anyways, and b) waiting an extra turn to rebound Verdict already is sucky to begin with. yes this. people were d reaming of UW from standards past and forgetting that a lot of the cards that made that deck good just weren't around anymore. i'm sure theres a deck where shes good in low amounts or maybe sideboard-only, but everyone was dreaming of just chaining boardwipes in a card game where you can't afford to not play anything useful on turn 4.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:44
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Death Bot posted:yes this. people were d reaming of UW from standards past and forgetting that a lot of the cards that made that deck good just weren't around anymore. i'm sure theres a deck where shes good in low amounts or maybe sideboard-only, but everyone was dreaming of just chaining boardwipes in a card game where you can't afford to not play anything useful on turn 4. I don't even think its a guarantee she was a great card in Theros UW...she'd be okay, but I don't honestly know if I would say "yes she is definitely better than Jace AOT."
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Jun 11, 2015 20:48
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Count Bleck posted:I'm still dying over Tromple.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:51
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Jace AOT is much better, although Narset would out perform him against combo decks that don't play creatures or permanents or any spells on turn 4.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:51
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rabidsquid posted:Jace AOT is much better, although Narset would out perform him against combo decks that don't play creatures or permanents or any spells on turn 4. So...Belcher?
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Jun 11, 2015 20:53
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a dozen swans posted:So...Belcher? AoT is better against belcher because he blanks the empty the warrens plan.
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Jun 11, 2015 20:57
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I think mcmagic is right in that the card is powerful or at least provides very unique effects, the issue is whether Standard supports it at the time. I don't see why claiming a card is good or bad now is any more definitive when it came out, especially when it's still Standard-legal for a while.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:05
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The card is only as good as adding rebound to a card is valuable. Narset was trash.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:16
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Maybe it will become good in a later version of Standard. We've got 15 months to find out. And I'm not only hoping this because I bought two at $40 for the first week of DTK standard because Shaheen Soorani said so. Not at all. I opened a third Korean one, so I'm set if UW gets big.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:21
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I mean the correct play is to narset -2 and then pass.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:22
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I have 5 of them... they better loving see SOME play.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:23
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Sigma-X posted:The card is only as good as adding rebound to a card is valuable. Not really.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:28
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Narset's problem is really easy to see: her +1 is unreliable and her -2 requires you to have a spell worth rebounding. Its like Domri Rade, except 1 mana more expensive and in a deck that cares a lot less about her abilities than a R/G deck cares about Domri's (a deck with Domri also can likely turn 2 him).
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Jun 11, 2015 21:31
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Have any of the modern UWR control decks tried running Narset as a sideboard card for the mirror? Her ultimate is "you win the game" if you can defend her in that matchup and the +1 helps you defend her. Is Ajani Vengeant still just better at that and better in other matchups too?
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Jun 11, 2015 21:32
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Well. I will say, I wouldn't be surprised if Narset (and walkers in general) see a large uptick in play after Hero's Downfall rotates out. It is kind of an oppressive card against anyone wanting to play CMC 4+ walkers expecting them to stick around for at least 1 turn. Narset is unique in the sense that she can probably tank 1 direct hit from anything most decks poo poo out turn 3.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:32
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Entropic posted:Have any of the modern UWR control decks tried running Narset as a sideboard card for the mirror? Her ultimate is "you win the game" if you can defend her in that matchup and the +1 helps you defend her. I lol'd. I mean even if you're playing UWR control in modern (a deck that's probably below 50% against everything good right now) the mirror is not something you're looking to prepare for.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:33
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AlternateNu posted:Well. I will say, I wouldn't be surprised if Narset (and walkers in general) see a large uptick in play after Hero's Downfall rotates out. It is kind of an oppressive card against anyone wanting to play CMC 4+ walkers expecting them to stick around for at least 1 turn. Narset is unique in the sense that she can probably tank 1 direct hit from anything most decks poo poo out turn 3. I'd be surprised if there isn't a direct instant or sorcery answer to Planeswalkers in BFZ.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:35
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Incitatus posted:Even the grandest sail collapses even the most awesome dog
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Jun 11, 2015 21:35
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Narset could still be good in Battle for Zendikar standard, so there is that (but probably not.)
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Jun 11, 2015 21:41
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Anyone who thinks Narset sucks has never had the experience of casting Treasure Cruise 6 times in one game (my opponent ultimated Ajani and I decked myself)
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Jun 11, 2015 21:42
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DTT with rebound is basically a scoop and cruise rebounded is also pretty amazing, but outside of that I don't think I've ever seen Narset do anything of value beyond soak up a few attacks.
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Jun 11, 2015 21:47
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Yawgmoth posted:DTT with rebound is basically a scoop and cruise rebounded is also pretty amazing, but outside of that I don't think I've ever seen Narset do anything of value beyond soak up a few attacks. Turn 5 rebound end hostilities turn 6 rebound dragonlords prerogative
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Jun 11, 2015 21:55
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Entropic posted:Have any of the modern UWR control decks tried running Narset as a sideboard card for the mirror? Her ultimate is "you win the game" if you can defend her in that matchup and the +1 helps you defend her. Probably, but all the UWR control players I know were honestly more interested in Ojutai. You're not going to be playing Narset turn 4, you're going to still be countering and burning poo poo off the board, so she's a dead card in that respect, and even when you play her, she doesn't really pose an imminent threat to your opponent. Rebound can be played around, and as long as you're rebounding things, you're not ticking her up (which isn't even guaranteed card advantage) to ult her. Ojutai, for one, can't be Negated or Spell Pierced like Narset, can't be targeted with removal as long as he's untapped, has flying, and when he swings will live through anything short of a Dismember or a Path. e: Zoness posted:I lol'd. UWR control is a cool and fun deck, gently caress your meta winrates Four Score fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jun 11, 2015 |
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Jun 11, 2015 21:59
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mcmagic posted:I have 5 of them... they better loving see SOME play. sorry to say this but you're what star city games refers to as "profit margin" Entropic posted:I'd be surprised if there isn't a direct instant or sorcery answer to Planeswalkers in BFZ. i'm sure there will be something but there's no guarantee it's gonna be 3 mana and in a single color.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:01
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Death Bot posted:sorry to say this but you're what star city games refers to as "profit margin" I don't buy from star city.. but yea...
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Jun 11, 2015 22:02
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Went to my LGS today to grab some lands of all things... There was a guy who looked 15 staring up at all the boosters and duel decks, and as I was looking at the foil lands he turned to me and told me he was just learning the game and asked me what packs of boosters he should get. I told him that he should save his money and first figure out what he wants to put in his deck(s) and then buy singles. He promptly told me that money was "no problem" and wanted to open packs so I told him to buy some fat packs so that he'll at least get some boxes and spin downs with his packs. He bought 2 DTK fat packs, a RTR fat pack for $60, and a bunch of varied core boosters from 4th to 9th edition. I hope he has fun opening all those boosters, and at least got a few decent cards. I walked out with one MM15 pack, and opened a Dark Confident. 
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Jun 11, 2015 22:24
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Four Score posted:Probably, but all the UWR control players I know were honestly more interested in Ojutai. You're not going to be playing Narset turn 4, you're going to still be countering and burning poo poo off the board, so she's a dead card in that respect, and even when you play her, she doesn't really pose an imminent threat to your opponent. Rebound can be played around, and as long as you're rebounding things, you're not ticking her up (which isn't even guaranteed card advantage) to ult her. Ojutai, for one, can't be Negated or Spell Pierced like Narset, can't be targeted with removal as long as he's untapped, has flying, and when he swings will live through anything short of a Dismember or a Path. Hey man I am an appreciator of UWR control I just look at all the dumb junk or coco decks and can't help but want to play the kolaghan's command plan instead if I'm not jamming metal dudes in modern.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:25
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Yawgmoth posted:Truer words have never been spoken. Rofl
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Jun 11, 2015 22:29
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Meh, there is already more flexible card advantage printed for control decks to use.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:30
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Sickening posted:Meh, there is already more flexible card advantage printed for control decks to use. Like Dig Through Time!  
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Jun 11, 2015 22:33
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TheKingofSprings posted:Like Dig Through Time! Or Dragonlord Ojutai 
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Jun 11, 2015 22:34
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Hero's Downfall isn't really keeping Narset down. I mean it also incidentally kills her and your opponent will presumably be forced to use it on her instead of an actual good card. One of my favorite cards of all-time is Sea Gate Oracle. I love Wall of Omens. The unfortunate reality is that unless there is a DRASTIC change in design, incremental card advantage is going to be one of the worst things you could be doing. There are a lot of reasons for that if anyone is actually interested but the biggest is that your opponent can be doing things like Polukranos, Siege Rhino, Goblin Rabblemaster. I am aware that these cards are going to rotate but you just go back Huntmaster, Olivia Voldaren, Hero of Bladehold. There are a ton of haymakers in the 3-5 mana range and have been for years, it's really stifling room for a card like Narset to succeed.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:39
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Zoness posted:Or Dragonlord Ojutai Jeff Hoogland secret account spotted
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Jun 11, 2015 22:39
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What a sick gently caress (Suspension Field x 2, Ghostly Prison x 2, Runed Halo x 2 (naming Snapcer and Deciever) + one on the stack turn after Keranos resolved)
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Jun 11, 2015 22:41
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Rinkles posted:What a sick gently caress looks like a prison enchantments deck alright, get hosed twin-havers
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Jun 11, 2015 22:43
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that's what twin deserves
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Jun 11, 2015 22:44
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It's seems tailor made to beat twin (and little else?)
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Jun 11, 2015 22:46
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TheKingofSprings posted:Like Dig Through Time! In standard there is ingenuity,dig, and prerogative. They aren't at 4 mana but they are at instant speed which is more important.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:47
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Four Score posted:looks like a prison enchantments deck alright, get hosed twin-havers 
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Jun 11, 2015 22:48
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Are Zendikar full art lands valid at any point, or do they rotate with the regular sets?
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Jun 11, 2015 22:53
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