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What kind of stuff does TAA even do? Is it run by a federal agency or nonprofits that get federal grants or what?
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Jun 12, 2015 23:11
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Republicans in purple states are going to have a field day attacking Dems for voting against protecting American workers in 2016. They would have said this anyway and their base doesn't care if it's true or not. Oh well.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:16
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Unzip and Attack posted:They would have said this anyway and their base doesn't care if it's true or not. Oh well.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:19
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FlamingLiberal posted:The trade stuff is confusing enough to most people. Pretty much. The problem with attacking Democrats for supporting TPA is that most Republicans support it. Ted Cruz has been spending tonight tweeting about why we need TPA. Most voters look to politicians for signals on what they should support because the underlying issues are too complex. That's understandable, and a good thing for Democracy. Supporters of Barack Obama should be able to say, "Well, Obama thinks this is a good idea, so I guess it is," just as supporters of Ted Cruz should be able to do the same thing. On the other side, anyone engaged enough to know what TPA stands for isn't going to be tricked by simple messaging tactics like "Democrats just voted to defund Medicare", as they'll have already made up their mind about which side of the intraparty trade split they're on and certainly aren't going to be persuaded to vote for the other party.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:26
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Joe, why did you say TPIP is still a go with TAA and TPA dead? Isn't the hattrick bill required to clear the way for both TPP and TPIP?
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Jun 12, 2015 23:27
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ufarn posted:Joe, why did you say TPIP is still a go with TAA and TPA dead? Isn't the hattrick bill required to clear the way for both TPP and TPIP? Probably! Though I think TTIP's got bigger problems in the EU at the moment. I was just joking around about there being a confusing number of T-ackronym'd bills/deals.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:31
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Joementum posted:In state money. Koch Industries is headquartered in Wichita. I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that they either pay zero in taxes, or are being given money by the state to stay there. Hell, maybe both.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:46
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Sir Tonk posted:I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that they either pay zero in taxes, or are being given money by the state to stay there. Well, they were all born and raised there.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:49
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mlmp08 posted:As of this past Monday, the U.S. military is offering sexual orientation the same equal opportunity protections and status as race, national origin, religion, sex, and color. The military has often led the way with these kinds of things, including integration and affirmative action. They even wrote amicus curae in support of affirmative action policies when cases started going to SCOTUS.
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Jun 13, 2015 00:08
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Evil Fluffy posted:If I ever wake up one morning and the headline on the news is "Koch brothers brutally murdered by angry mob" it'll be a good day. That's a disturbing frame of mind, but yes.
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Jun 13, 2015 00:26
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Supraluminal posted:Yeah, of course it is. It was supposed to be a snappy finish to a long, dry post. I hope people can figure that out for themselves. Well, no. It's an oversimplification because the TPP has direct impact to things like Defense and strategic planning .
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Jun 13, 2015 00:48
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Boon posted:Well, no. It's an oversimplification because the TPP has direct impact to things like Defense and strategic planning . So other things factor in such as - how will the next President deal with China? Since Obama likely won't be in office when TPP is hashed out and brought to an up/down vote in Congress. Why are there no alternatives? Where is FTAA? Globalization has been running out of control and they want wider trade areas?
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Jun 13, 2015 00:53
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McDowell posted:So other things factor in such as - how will the next President deal with China? Since Obama likely won't be in office when TPP is hashed out and brought to an up/down vote in Congress. Why are there no alternatives? Where is FTAA? What the gently caress does "Globalization has been running out of control" mean?
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Jun 13, 2015 01:01
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Boon posted:What the gently caress does "Globalization has been running out of control" mean? Migrant crises, ISIL recruitment/weapons, climate change, invasive species, the list goes on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI
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Jun 13, 2015 01:02
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Regardless of whether or not it's "out of control," globalization is both a fact and inevitable.
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Jun 13, 2015 01:12
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Fojar38 posted:Regardless of whether or not it's "out of control," globalization is both a fact and inevitable. It's human activity! You control tariffs dummy! Get rid of contiguous borders before you have unlimited sea trade.
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Jun 13, 2015 01:14
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Nintendo Kid posted:No. There were multiple proxy wars within the cold war but the actual era was not a war at all. No poo poo. Everyone just spent a lot of money and practiced hiding behind desks. You can be really hilarious at times.
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Jun 13, 2015 01:22
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Pohl posted:No poo poo. Everyone just spent a lot of money and practiced hiding behind desks. You can be really hilarious at times. The point is that going to war with someone for realsies does not create a cold war. It's rather the opposite.
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Jun 13, 2015 01:45
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Are there any odds of Obama negotiating a stripped down version of TPP (sans IP protection and corporate Ultracourt), if only to maintain some form of FP-related success for his legacy (outside of terrorizing third world countries with drones)? It seems like the base goal is a bipartisan concept that both sides could agree on non-controversially;
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Jun 13, 2015 02:10
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Neurolimal posted:Are there any odds of Obama negotiating a stripped down version of TPP (sans IP protection and corporate Ultracourt), if only to maintain some form of FP-related success for his legacy (outside of terrorizing third world countries with drones)? Or maybe the fundamental rule of negotiation is to start with a wishlist and whittle it down so you still get some of what you want. You know, that thing that people were blasting him for not doing in 2009.
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Jun 13, 2015 02:12
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To be clear, it's not to reduce our reliance on China. It's to isolate China. Consider that commerce is intimately tied to diplomacy, and diplomacy directly impacts defense. When I say defense, what you need to think about is things like forward basing and logistics and the capability to project power. What the Navy calls "Sea Lines of Communication". One might consider this meaningless but it's strategic impact is enormous. If you're not convinced at just how important that concept is to diplomacy and commerce, you need to look at the Strait of Hormuz and the complications to US foreign policy it entails.
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Jun 13, 2015 02:18
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Can Obama even finish TPP? A new guy is getting elected next year and no one in Congress is going to work with Obama anyway. Seems like negotiations are really just a warm up for the other countries. Get a feel on the general American desire.
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Jun 13, 2015 02:19
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Neurolimal posted:Are there any odds of Obama negotiating a stripped down version of TPP (sans IP protection and corporate Ultracourt), if only to maintain some form of FP-related success for his legacy (outside of terrorizing third world countries with drones)? Despite what many shrill pundits have to say, no treaty this big is set in stone this early in the process. Gyges posted:Can Obama even finish TPP? He's got 19 months easily. But the point really is that it has to get done under his watch and I doubt Hillary or generic Republican alternative would really oppose it much either.
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Jun 13, 2015 02:21
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Gyges posted:Can Obama even finish TPP? A new guy is getting elected next year and no one in Congress is going to work with Obama anyway. Seems like negotiations are really just a warm up for the other countries. Get a feel on the general American desire. TPP itself is definitely going to pass at some point. I personally think that Obama will eventually be able to squeeze it through because I don't think Democrats actually LIKE robbing him of one of his legacy-defining achievements and this is more a quid-pro-quo to the GOP after five years of conservative obstructionism. In the worst case scenario for the TPP, we'll have to wait for the next administration before it will finally be passed.
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Jun 13, 2015 02:23
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computer parts posted:Or maybe the fundamental rule of negotiation is to start with a wishlist and whittle it down so you still get some of what you want. Yeah, it's gotten to where even the APS Director of Public Affairs recently scolded Obama for his poor negotiation skills.
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Jun 13, 2015 02:27
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Californian drivers may have been subjected to coordinated Enron-like price-gouging earlier this year.
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Jun 13, 2015 02:28
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Boon posted:To be clear, it's not to reduce our reliance on China. It's to isolate China. Somewhere, the ghost of Alfred Thayer Mahan is looking down on this post, smiling contentedly.
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Jun 13, 2015 02:54
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Somewhere, the ghost of Alfred Thayer Mahan is looking down on this post, smiling contentedly. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's wrong.
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Jun 13, 2015 02:57
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Stultus Maximus posted:Just because it's old doesn't mean it's wrong. I didn't say that it was.
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Jun 13, 2015 03:04
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Fojar38 posted:TPP itself is definitely going to pass at some point. I personally think that Obama will eventually be able to squeeze it through because I don't think Democrats actually LIKE robbing him of one of his legacy-defining achievements and this is more a quid-pro-quo to the GOP after five years of conservative obstructionism. In the worst case scenario for the TPP, we'll have to wait for the next administration before it will finally be passed. ho-hum legacy, achievements, what else do the TV pundits say? But we just have to wait and 'finally' it will be passed - even though none of the details are known to the public. Why do you see TPP passage as inevitable, if not desirable?
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Jun 13, 2015 03:46
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McDowell posted:ho-hum legacy, achievements, what else do the TV pundits say? But we just have to wait and 'finally' it will be passed - even though none of the details are known to the public. Why do you see TPP passage as inevitable, if not desirable? Because there are more centrist democrats than there are progressive democrats and the failure of the TAA was almost entirely Pelosi's doing, and after the vote failed she basically admitted that she's doing it to squeeze the GOP. Trade Promotion Authority, the part of the legislation that has the most to do with the actual trade agreement, passed today.
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Jun 13, 2015 04:02
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Boon posted:Well, no. It's an oversimplification because the TPP has direct impact to things like Defense and strategic planning . Uh... did you read the post you're quoting? I already agreed that that line was a simplification. I wasn't trying to comprehensively describe the motivations of those who voted in favor of the TPP in one sentence at the end of my post which didn't have anything to do with that subject in the first place.
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Jun 13, 2015 04:21
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Californian drivers may have been subjected to coordinated Enron-like price-gouging earlier this year.
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Jun 13, 2015 04:23
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Supraluminal posted:Uh... did you read the post you're quoting? I already agreed that that line was a simplification. I wasn't trying to comprehensively describe the motivations of those who voted in favor of the TPP in one sentence at the end of my post which didn't have anything to do with that subject in the first place. Yeah, I did, and I didn't feel that it addresses what's wrong with your oversimplification. Why is it that you can't be both pithy and correct?
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Jun 13, 2015 04:30
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FlamingLiberal posted:Is there something about CA that just screams out to some people, "Yeah, seems like the kind of place to price-gouge on fuel/utilities!"? Basically Texans trying to kneecap their betters.
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Jun 13, 2015 04:30
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FlamingLiberal posted:Is there something about CA that just screams out to some people, "Yeah, seems like the kind of place to price-gouge on fuel/utilities!"? The fact that it's full of idiots to fleece as evidenced by the proposition system's results?
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Jun 13, 2015 04:31
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Oil producers saw how hilariously bad California is at managing water and figured the same applies to fuel.
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Jun 13, 2015 04:47
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mlmp08 posted:Oil producers saw how hilariously bad California is at managing water and figured the same applies to fuel. California has special blend fuel that both has helped a lot with the smog and also means that California can't import gasoline from other states. So that's obviously ripe for exploitation since you can still export fuel from California.
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Jun 13, 2015 04:50
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Boon posted:Yeah, I did, and I didn't feel that it addresses what's wrong with your oversimplification. Why is it that you can't be both pithy and correct? Because I'm lazy? This is a dumb argument. Let's stop.
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Jun 13, 2015 04:58
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I can't wait for all of the other no-water states to start running out (some probably are) and inevitably avoid doing anything about it until it is too late to save the state from dehydration death. Really, I would like the water problems to be properly dealt with, but I know that ain't happening.
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Jun 13, 2015 05:13
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