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ManMythLegend posted:lol thread title.
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Jun 13, 2015 06:47
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So, remember that woman who was arrested on suspicion of helping those two convicts escape?
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Jun 13, 2015 07:03
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Dead Reckoning posted:So, remember that woman who was arrested on suspicion of helping those two convicts escape? Her son is in the Vermont Air Guard.
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Jun 13, 2015 07:55
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Bernard McFacknutah posted:I'm pretty sure that the Fukushima and Chernobyl reactors were a very similar design. The French and Finns were saying that their new reactors were immune from that sort of meltdown. Since no one else said it: Not remotely similar. Chernobyl underwent a feedback loop-driven power excursion due to insane Russian design having both a positive moderator voiding coefficient and a large positive temperature coefficient of reactivity. Also, the operators allowed an extremely dangerous Xenon poison transient to occur while doing unapproved test procedures to see what would happen to the cooling systems if they tripped the main generator offline. They allowed this because they were mostly untrained miners and had no clue how the science behind the systems worked. It's a perfect storm of terrible decisions. Fukushima suffered a beyond-design basis loss-of-coolant accident that proceeded in the way one would expect. Core overheats due to insufficient decay heat removal because emergency systems are underwater -> Fission product release within containment -> Meltdown -> Zircalloy reaction with water at extreme temperatures -> Hydrogen gas formation -> Hydrogen explosion -> Fission product release to environment The design flaw of Chernobyl was nuclear in nature and corrected in all future plants (and most/all current ones). The design flaw of Fukushima was putting your emergency power systems in the basement. The new AP1000 plants are much less susceptible to a loss of coolant accident resulting in core meltdown due to greatly improved passive cooling systems.  
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Jun 13, 2015 13:52
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Some kind of shooting with an armored van happened at Dallas police HQ followed by a chase and standoff this morning. Can't find many details yet. http://heavy.com/news/2015/06/dalla...nfire-gunshots/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxe-GcCGoM4 E: Found a little more info. A bag with pipe bombs in it detonated early this morning and was linked to the van. Van eventually gets disabled by a 50 cal round through the engine block, and a sniper later shot the driver. Van cannot be approached since the driver indicated that the van was rigged with explosives during negotiations. Bomb squad is currently trying to figure out what's going on with the van and if the guy is dead or not. EBB fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jun 13, 2015 |
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Jun 13, 2015 16:22
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The best part of all this is that one of Van Man's reasons for trying to blow up the Dallas Police HQ was because they called him a terrorist. A wonderful end for redneck rampage week.
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Jun 13, 2015 19:03
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KetTarma posted:Since no one else said it: Not remotely similar. Thank you. I enjoy learning things. What about nuclear plants that were made before this change? Have they been upgraded to the new standard and what would cause (barring human idiocy) a city from being wiped out now?
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Jun 13, 2015 20:31
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KetTarma posted:Since no one else said it: Not remotely similar. That's not goonsay, since it's rational, properly explained and well informed
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Jun 13, 2015 21:45
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KetTarma posted:Since no one else said it: Not remotely similar. Thanks man. I was halfway through writing up a big effortpost about it but I bow to your superior knowledge and wisdom
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Jun 13, 2015 21:59
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Anita Dickinme posted:Thank you. I enjoy learning things. The style of reactor plant of concern is the RBMK. These featured graphite tipped control rods with a graphite moderator also in use. This meant that when control rods were inserted, the core had a local power peaking event as the control rods were inserted. Also, when the light water coolant flashed to steam, the graphite moderator would thermalize more neutrons. In a water moderated plant, this would cause water vaporization to cause power levels to drop since fewer thermalization events occurred. In the RBMK, water vaporization still occurs but the efficient graphite moderator still kicks in and causes a local power increase. Thus, when the core gets "more unstable" to speak during thermal transients, you also get greater increases in overall power levels which results in more vaporization and higher power levels on up until the transient is arrested with control rods... except the control rods also cause a brief power surge. It's basically insanity the whole way down. The Soviets retrofitted their RBMKs to have more "fission poisons" in the core. Think of it kind of like putting a speed governor on your car. They also increased the number of control rods and increased the emergency shutdown rod speed. This would provide faster response... kind of like putting really good brakes on your car. In an ideal world, an AP-1000 plant would undergo a design basis Fukushima style natural disaster. Instead of the decay heat from the nuclear fission reaction heating the plant up uncontrollably, the plant naturally establishes a gradient temperature profile where the hot water forces its way out of the reactor and the cold water is driven into the reactor. This creates a natural circulation where, despite no coolant pumps operating, there's still coolant flow. Ideally, at least.
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Jun 13, 2015 22:02
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Liquid fluoride thorium reactors are even safer. If things go to poo poo, like say you're hit with a 9.0 earthquake then flooded by a thirty foot wave that turns a fuel refinery up the coast into q gigantic oily smear of an ecological disaster that is going on to this day that never makes it into the news, the reactor core doesn't even have the possibility of going critical. If power fails the active cooling that requires power stops and a salt plug at the bottom of the chamber melts, dumping the fuel into a big pool of water, shutting everything down. If the reactor gets too hot, before it goes critical, the excess heat overwhelms the active cooling, plug melts, pool, shut down.
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Jun 13, 2015 22:03
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KetTarma posted:The style of reactor plant of concern is the RBMK. These featured graphite tipped control rods with a graphite moderator also in use. This meant that when control rods were inserted, the core had a local power peaking event as the control rods were inserted. Also, when the light water coolant flashed to steam, the graphite moderator would thermalize more neutrons. In a water moderated plant, this would cause water vaporization to cause power levels to drop since fewer thermalization events occurred. In the RBMK, water vaporization still occurs but the efficient graphite moderator still kicks in and causes a local power increase. Thus, when the core gets "more unstable" to speak during thermal transients, you also get greater increases in overall power levels which results in more vaporization and higher power levels on up until the transient is arrested with control rods... except the control rods also cause a brief power surge. I once read a report that claimed the control rods were encased in steel sleeves that extended half a metre or so beoynd the rods themselves, so that when the rods decended the first thing that happened was that a fair amount of coolant was displaced with thin steel and air, and that this was greatly contributing to the excursion when they scrammed. Coolant near boiling point already and the positive void coeffiecient did the rest. Also that the Xenon buildup was undetected because they simply didn't have detectors (or at least no readouts for them in the control room). Was this bullshit?
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Jun 13, 2015 23:33
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Two things about the LFTR: 1) Wait until we've actually built a modular prototype before we praise it, or at least preface it with 'The current theory behind LFTRs is...'. 2) The dump reservoir will probably not be filled with water. Thorium fluorides are not very soluble, true, but adding an extremely hot substance to a large quantity of water in an enclosed space seems... unwise. That said, carry on. I'm enormously in favour of the LFTR project, even if the projected economic models indicate that it'll be tricky to actually make a profit on them (Which in a neo-capitalistic society makes them rather difficult to deploy commercially)
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Jun 13, 2015 23:37
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There's no goddamn way to get around needing to employ both fuel recycling, but also the use of a lot more, though not that many, fast neutron breeder reactors, to meet global energy demands and meet the G7's climate change goals for the next century. We're talking COTS, for what it's worth. We don't need LFTR's. Though I guess they're cool in theory and I've got nothing against them. But fermi and co. cracked this nut close to a century ago, and their academic progeny perfected the solutions to our problems circa nineteen loving seventy. Our refusal to save our own asses for illogical reasons can't be described in words, I just want to see it all burn, personally.
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Jun 14, 2015 00:01
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Caconym posted:I once read a report that claimed the control rods were encased in steel sleeves that extended half a metre or so beoynd the rods themselves, so that when the rods decended the first thing that happened was that a fair amount of coolant was displaced with thin steel and air, and that this was greatly contributing to the excursion when they scrammed. Coolant near boiling point already and the positive void coeffiecient did the rest. Also that the Xenon buildup was undetected because they simply didn't have detectors (or at least no readouts for them in the control room). Was this bullshit? Xenon exists as a fission product inside the fuel matrix. Xenon is well understood these days but the Chernobyl operators were unaware of it. It is -only- visible as a fission product poison that causes power to undergo dips and peaks during transients. There's no way to detect it since it's in the fuel. Xenon in nuclear reactors is produced from the Tellurium-135 decay chain as well as a minor production from the direct result of fission. Xenon also decays naturally at a set rate while also undergoing burnup from fission. That means that power and temperature levels can do some non-intuitive things sometimes considering that an accurate model is a time varying differential equation that must account for power level history over the past few days. Your Xenon production rate is based on previous power levels that kick off the Tellurium decay chain as well as probabilistic assumption for direct production from fission. Your Xenon decay rate is based on your present power level relative to the current Xenon population as well as a set decay rate using a simple half-life equation. It is ... complicated.... but predictable.
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Jun 14, 2015 00:09
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shut it nuke also stairmaster in the recruiting thread might become a nuke he has been messaging me on steam and I have been trying to persuade him not to be one
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Jun 14, 2015 03:07
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Dont forget that at fukushima the fuel core of the #4 reactor was outside its containment in a spent fuel pool because it was being refueled. The hydrogen explosion in that building decimated the fuel pool and thats why they gotta put so much ocean water on it. Any safety feature built into the plant was bypassed when they put the hot fuel in a pool of water several stories above the ground.
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Jun 14, 2015 03:32
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Two Finger posted:Thanks man. I was halfway through writing up a big effortpost about it but I bow to your superior knowledge and wisdom they both done blew up though
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Jun 14, 2015 05:21
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So Russia and China managed to get into some of the encrypted poo poo Snowden gave them. Necessitating a bunch of spies being moved, and failing to convince fedora garbed retards everywhere that he's not a heroic whistleblower. Can we just render the piece of poo poo already?
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Jun 14, 2015 05:51
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So the spies have gotten out in one piece. So sorry local assets, you're all loving boned now. Like, if you catch a bullet in the head you are lucky. But nobody bad has gotten Snowden's data. Oh no.
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Jun 14, 2015 06:02
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Nah, totally worth having the NSA fuckery exposed.
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Jun 14, 2015 07:00
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Intel5 posted:Nah, totally worth having the NSA fuckery exposed. There were hundreds of articles discussing the scope and breadth of powers the PATRIOT act gave to the NSA and other federal organizations. Edward Snowden's defection wasn't really necessary to anyone that could read.
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Jun 14, 2015 07:55
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Kawasaki Nun posted:There were hundreds of articles discussing the scope and breadth of powers the PATRIOT act gave to the NSA and other federal organizations. Edward Snowden's defection wasn't really necessary to anyone that could read. Those articles didn't delve into the depth of just exactly what the NSA was doing under PRISM and MUSCULAR (which incidentally was way outside the scope of what was supposedly authorized under the PATRIOT Act, especially since PRISM alone wasn't even authorized under PATRIOT, it was authorized under the generally previously undisclosed FISA Amendment Act of 2008.) I mean if you just assumed from the previous news stories that the NSA was just spying on everyone about everything then I guess his revelations weren't a surprise, but it's pretty disingenuous to state that the stuff he revealed didn't provide a factual basis for things that weren't previously known to be occurring, especially if you consider that the ACLU's suit against the Act was dismissed for inability for prove their case (never mind that Snowden's revelations basically laid out their entire case and then some for them.) Also the source for the "ZOMG WE HAD TO MOVE OUR SPIES BECAUSE OF THAT loving TRAITOR SNOWDEN THE SKY IS LITERALLY FALLING IN ESPIONAGE THE WORLD OVER" is MI6 so pardon me if I don't exactly take them seriously given the fact that Western intelligence in general has done nothing but loving lie through their teeth over the last 15 years in their public statements about pretty much everything. I mean the CIA literally told bald faced lies about everything to do with torture and the NSA has done the exact same thing in regards to what their domestic surveillance program allegedly had yielded as far as actionable intel (which is zilch in case you were keeping score, although don't expect anyone associated with the government to acknowledge that)...so yeah, I don't believe a word of anything they say.
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Jun 14, 2015 09:14
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The absolute worst part of the white crazy Spokane chick 'fiasco' is all of the people who think it's relevant to anything, ever
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Jun 14, 2015 10:59
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lol if you didn't think the government was spying on everyone everywhere even prior to 9/11
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Jun 14, 2015 14:23
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Kawasaki Nun posted:There were hundreds of articles discussing the scope and breadth of powers the PATRIOT act gave to the NSA and other federal organizations. Edward Snowden's defection wasn't really necessary to anyone that could read. I know people who still think Iraq did 9/11. Unless you can get through to them, the political landscape doesn't change, and unless the landscape shifts under Congress' feet then nothing happens.
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Jun 14, 2015 14:37
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Larry Parrish posted:The absolute worst part of the white crazy Spokane chick 'fiasco' is all of the people who think it's relevant to anything, ever my mom somehow managed to segue this into a discussion about transsexuals while i was sitting shotgun on the freeway and unable to get away
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Jun 14, 2015 17:06
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Evidence is still more important than having a gut feeling, who would've thought
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Jun 14, 2015 18:05
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PINING 4 PORKINS posted:Evidence is still more important than having a gut feeling, who would've thought
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Jun 14, 2015 18:14
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Well then he should have just leaked information about shady domestic programs, instead of handing military and intelligence secrets over to people far shittier than we could ever be.
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Jun 14, 2015 18:37
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Casimir Radon posted:Well then he should have just leaked information about shady domestic programs, instead of handing military and intelligence secrets over to people far shittier than we could ever be. The only people who are saying that are Western military and intelligence officials...who have every reason to try and paint Snowden as some huge traitor spy guy, because the more they can discredit him the more they can avoid his revelations having any lasting impact on their ability to continue carrying out illegal domestic surveillance and mislead Congress (among other things). So there's a very real incentive for them to lie about what he's allegedly leaked, which is why I don't believe a word they say on the subject.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xFmNMTVFIE more or less courageous than a tranny?
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Jun 15, 2015 02:08
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That dude got taken out by a 50 cal. Literally dusted.
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Jun 15, 2015 02:23
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iyaayas01 posted:Those articles didn't delve into the depth of just exactly what the NSA was doing under PRISM and MUSCULAR (which incidentally was way outside the scope of what was supposedly authorized under the PATRIOT Act, especially since PRISM alone wasn't even authorized under PATRIOT, it was authorized under the generally previously undisclosed FISA Amendment Act of 2008.) I mean if you just assumed from the previous news stories that the NSA was just spying on everyone about everything then I guess his revelations weren't a surprise, but it's pretty disingenuous to state that the stuff he revealed didn't provide a factual basis for things that weren't previously known to be occurring, especially if you consider that the ACLU's suit against the Act was dismissed for inability for prove their case (never mind that Snowden's revelations basically laid out their entire case and then some for them.) The NSA built a massive loving datacenter in Utah in 2012, and the power of the FISA Amendments Act was already widely known at that point, it just didn't receive much attention in the media because it occurred at the height of the surge, the worldwide economic collapse, and the 2008 elections (you know, things that the public actually cares about). What the gently caress did you think that data center in Utah was being used for? You don't build a goddamned data center in the middle of the desert in Mormon country to store employee records. psydude fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jun 15, 2015 |
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Jun 15, 2015 04:47
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holocaust bloopers posted:That dude got taken out by a 50 cal. Literally dusted. fav part was when the news reported that the van was disabled by a .50 then a sniper took out the dude but his condition was unknown 
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Jun 15, 2015 04:51
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psydude posted:The NSA built a massive loving datacenter in Utah in 2012, and the power of the FISA Amendments Act was already widely known at that point, it just didn't receive much attention in the media because it occurred at the height of the surge, the worldwide economic collapse, and the 2008 elections (you know, things that the public actually cares about). What the gently caress did you think that data center in Utah was being used for? You don't build a goddamned data center in the middle of the desert in Mormon country to store employee records. Again PINING 4 PORKINS posted:Evidence is still more important than having a gut feeling, who would've thought The fact that "everyone knew" they were doing "something" isn't the same as knowing the specifics of what exactly they were doing and just how illegal it was. For exhibit A on why this matters, witness the recent ruling against Section 215...that challenge never would've seen the light of a courtroom if it hadn't been for Snowden, and if you don't believe me on that just look at the ACLU's first challenge against the FAA: dismissed on standing because they couldn't prove they were actually being surveilled. I wonder why that was. e: The fact of the matter is that the only thing that matters about this is, as someone already said, actually changing public opinion to drive Congress to actually exercise oversight authority instead of rubber-stamping on whatever bullshit the NSA comes before them in closed session to spew. Granted the chances of this happening now that the GOP is in control of the Intel committees is basically zero but without knowing the specifics of what exactly it was the NSA was doing in the first place that oversight was never going to happen regardless of who was in control of the Hill, because Congress didn't even know just how badly they were being lied to. iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jun 15, 2015 |
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Jun 15, 2015 06:42
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Knowing the extent of an activity can be important. Like your wife and that guy she has lunch with every few days from work. Snowden pointed out that he's railing her every time you blink. But he kinda pointed it out to the entire world, and included your and your wife's SSN, credit card and banking info, mothers' maiden names, complete medical histories, junior high diaries, and your dick size (sorry bro).
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Jun 15, 2015 07:18
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 if you think Snowden was anything other then a mole that made the greatest escape in espionage history.
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Jun 15, 2015 13:29
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ManMythLegend posted:
Basically.
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Jun 15, 2015 13:31
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ManMythLegend posted:
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Jun 15, 2015 13:39
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