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I may be (probably am) wrong, electricity is definitely not my strong area and that's why I don't do anything beyond replacing an outlet. Kinda hard to see in the photo, but there are 3 Romex running into the box. One of them is the outlet, simple enough. From the other two, the hot (black) wire from each is wired to the switch, one to the line and one to the load. From those same two Romex, the ground (bare copper) and neutral (white wire) are connected to each other with wire nuts. I am guessing that one of the Romex is from the panel and the other is wired to the dishwasher. I didn't actually disconnect the wires or test what's hot and ground, since I don't have a multimeter or tester. Like I said, I know not much beyond which color wires go where on an outlet and light fixture, so I don't mess around with this stuff since I don't like dying in a fire.
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Jun 12, 2015 16:50
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Laminator posted:I didn't actually disconnect the wires or test what's hot and ground, since I don't have a multimeter or tester. That's the confusion here - it's just in your phrasing. You're calling them both "hot" (indicating you tested this) when in reality they are just black wires that may or may not be hot.
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Jun 12, 2015 17:12
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And to elaborate a little further, a switch should always have two black (or another fun, nonwhite, non-green color) wires connected to it. One will be a hot wire, and one will be a leg running to the device in question, be it a light or dishwasher. When the switch is thrown, that leg goes hot and powers the device. Think of a circuit in simple terms - a device and the panel connected by one hot and one neutral. A switch just lives on that hot branch, interrupting it or not. The neutral is always uninterrupted between panel and device. And it sounds like I did misunderstand a bit at first. Sounds like your neutrals are tied to each other and your grounds are tied to each other, which is as it should be. I thought at first you were saying the grounds and neutrals were tied to each other. Slugworth fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 12, 2015 |
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Jun 12, 2015 17:31
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Laminator posted:I am guessing that one of the Romex is from the panel and the other is wired to the dishwasher. I didn't actually disconnect the wires or test what's hot and ground, since I don't have a multimeter or tester. This is the correct answer.
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Jun 12, 2015 18:54
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Laminator posted:This switch has perplexed us since we moved in. It didn't seem to do anything, and when I looked at the wiring on it yesterday I got even more confused since it has two hot leads wired to it, with the neutral and ground just pigtailed together in the back of the box. A few hours after I got the GFCI installed, I had a thought and went to look at the dishwasher... it was off. Flipping the switch ON, and the dishwasher light turns on. Apparently it's a common thing down here in Texas Not for nothing but in Illinois, you are supposed to have an off switch for the dishwasher as well. Which makes a kind of sense if you need to really cut the power quickly if the dishwasher decides to eat your kitchen.  Also, I'm always surprised and jealous of all those remodeling shows where the electrical is all Romex. Illinois requires all electrical to go through conduit.
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Jun 12, 2015 19:00
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Laminator posted:GFCI installation tales continue If I'm reading you right: One socket under the sink should be always on for the dishwasher, the other one that is switched is for a disposal.
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Jun 12, 2015 19:05
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Thwomp posted:Not for nothing but in Illinois, you are supposed to have an off switch for the dishwasher as well. Which makes a kind of sense if you need to really cut the power quickly if the dishwasher decides to eat your kitchen. It's for the safety of maintenance personnel. Any appliance that has a 1/8 HP or greater motor needs a disconnect that is within sight of the appliance.
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Jun 12, 2015 19:48
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Thwomp posted:Not for nothing but in Illinois, you are supposed to have an off switch for the dishwasher as well. Which makes a kind of sense if you need to really cut the power quickly if the dishwasher decides to eat your kitchen. Huh, I thought the mystery switch in my kitchen controlled the vent.
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Jun 12, 2015 20:41
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Mr. Mambold posted:If I'm reading you right: One socket under the sink should be always on for the dishwasher, the other one that is switched is for a disposal. Yeah, and that's how it's been at other places I have lived. But this house has no disposal, and it looks like the dishwasher was added later so they decided that was the best spot to put the disconncect switch. Just in case I wasn't clear, that outlet is one of the kitchen countertop outlets, not an under the sink one. Sorry for the confusion folks, this is why I don't mess with electricity!
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Jun 12, 2015 21:04
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Thwomp posted:Not for nothing but in Illinois, you are supposed to have an off switch for the dishwasher as well. Which makes a kind of sense if you need to really cut the power quickly if the dishwasher decides to eat your kitchen. I've lived in Illinois all my life in numerous places with dishwashers and have never seen one with a switch. Inspector didn't mention it on my current home either.
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Jun 12, 2015 22:41
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Home inspectors don't report on everything that might not comply with current code. They look for significant safety and functional defects; those things are often forbidden by code, but that is not why they are reporting it. Edit: I know not all of IL has adopted NEC, but the requirement for dishwasher disconnects was rewritten for the 2011 NEC because the old version was widely misunderstood to allow the circuit breaker to meet the disconnect requirement. Zhentar fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jun 12, 2015 |
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Jun 12, 2015 23:40
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:I've lived in Illinois all my life in numerous places with dishwashers and have never seen one with a switch. Inspector didn't mention it on my current home either. Same here. I bought my house 5 years ago and it was completely rennovated. The disposal has a switch just to the left of the sink, but the dishwasher has none. I even looked under the sink next to where the dishwasher is. Zhentar posted:Edit: I know not all of IL has adopted NEC, but the requirement for dishwasher disconnects was rewritten for the 2011 NEC because the old version was widely misunderstood to allow the circuit breaker to meet the disconnect requirement. OK, that would probably explain it since I bought mine right at the tail end of 2010.
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Jun 13, 2015 03:51
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Zhentar posted:It's for the safety of maintenance personnel. Any appliance that has a 1/8 HP or greater motor needs a disconnect that is within sight of the appliance. Sounds like the kind of socialist nanny-stating I've come to expect from texas.
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Jun 13, 2015 07:00
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Laminator posted:This switch has perplexed us since we moved in. It didn't seem to do anything, and when I looked at the wiring on it yesterday I got even more confused since it has two hot leads wired to it, with the neutral and ground just pigtailed together in the back of the box. A few hours after I got the GFCI installed, I had a thought and went to look at the dishwasher... it was off. Flipping the switch ON, and the dishwasher light turns on. Apparently it's a common thing down here in Texas There either is something wrong with your post or with your wiring to the CFGI afaik. Get an electrician to check everything or you have a small chance of dying. Maybe Three-Phase will show up and correct me, but: A GFCI measures the current that is going out against the current that is coming back. If there is a small difference, the GFCI shuts off. How do you get a difference so the GFCI trips? The current isn't (completely) flowing back through the neutral line, but is going somewhere else. Like to ground. Then it should switch off. As there always will be current going to ground if connected, you can't have a working/correctly wired GFCI if there is a connection between neutral->ground in your wiring. I'm greatly confused. But something is wrong with your wiring.
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Jun 13, 2015 13:31
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Dishwashers fail frquently enough that surely you'd want then plugged into a normal electrical outlet anyway? Over here they are plugged in like any other kitchen appliance and plumbed into a normal faucet so you can do that yourself too.
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Jun 13, 2015 13:49
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Holy poo poo. My dishwasher mysteriously stopped working a month ago. I checked the fuse, poked around the board with a multimeter, couldn't find any obvious problems, and gave up because I can't afford to replace it. And then I read the last few pages of this thread. "Hey babe, are there any mystery switches in the kitchen?" "Yeah, I think so, what about it?" [moves things around to get at it] "Flip it." "Switched!" "Now look at the dishwasher." "HOLY loving poo poo  ... I guess I'll do a load of dishes now."
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Jun 13, 2015 22:27
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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I hear you guys like crappy construction tales Here is my back porch. The chucklefuck idiots who put this up should be flipping burgers somewhere or maybe emptying portapotties. Every other stringer is a 1x6... because Reasons.   The support posts are nowhere near a corner junction, in pure shear with no bracketry, and haphazardly nailed on with 3 12 penny nails. Note how far up the post is and that the decking over it has fallen off and you can tell how that ended exactly as you would expect.  I kicked this one and it came mostly off.  Two 1 5/8" deck screws into the very corner of a 4x4 a couple inches apart (no longer present) should be enough to hold a railing post up, right?  You can tell how secure the ends of those 1x6 stringers are by the nails popping out. All two of them.  This post hasn't been connected since I bought the place, that end of the porch is supported by a couple cement blocks I jammed under there so it would stay up till I got around to replacing it.  Don't let idiots build porches, guys.
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Jun 14, 2015 02:09
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~Coxy posted:Dishwashers fail frquently enough that surely you'd want then plugged into a normal electrical outlet anyway? I'd have to pull mine out, but I'm pretty sure mine is plugged into an outlet instead of direct wiring, like my washer and dryer are both plugged into a wall outlet in the laundry room. I know the water is hooked up directly to the feed to the kitchen sink faucet with what I'm guessing is a ball valve. But no switch in sight. Just one for the disposal.
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Jun 14, 2015 03:49
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Laminator posted:I had a thought and went to look at the dishwasher... it was off. Flipping the switch ON, and the dishwasher light turns on. Apparently it's a common thing down here in Texas So far I've only run across those in Plano, never any other city in TX. And I know the house I'm in now has the dishwasher connected by a cord and outlet anyway, so it's not like it's difficult to secure power to it (just unplug it once it's been pulled out from under the counter). Though I've only lived in El Paso and a handful of cities in DFW.
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Jun 14, 2015 04:33
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OHSA.jpg
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Jun 14, 2015 12:04
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Collateral Damage posted:OHSA.jpg Now all ladders will have to add "Do not use someone using this as a step as a step" to the top.
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Jun 14, 2015 14:22
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Collateral Damage posted:OHSA.jpg Oh god, his back. 
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Jun 14, 2015 15:31
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Standing on someone's back like that demonstrates exactly the kind of superb understanding that you'd never hope to see on a construction site. Because I don't think the spine is built for support the load of an adult male standing on it like that. Really makes you wonder where in the build they've applied such a slapdash approach as well.
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Jun 14, 2015 15:37
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Devor posted:Now all ladders will have to add "Do not use someone using this as a step as a step" to the top. But tattooed to the small of his back.
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Jun 14, 2015 15:52
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Collateral Damage posted:OHSA.jpg Hahahaha...something something about strap that truss down right here
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Jun 14, 2015 17:00
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Cleaned out the gutters on the rental place yesterday (pulled out about 10 gallons of compost from them, and destroyed a few thousand ants in the process). I had assumed that the end of the gutter was missing the end plate and needed to be fixed, but then I hosed the gutters out and realized... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCu4Tz4A5WI (sorry about vertical video)
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Jun 14, 2015 18:22
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This thread has damaged me. There was a moment, right between you turning on the hose and water starting to pour down, where I was convinced it would turn out that it drained to the inside of the house.
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Jun 14, 2015 18:27
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I was expecting the water to come out of mailbox or something equally bizarre.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:19
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Collateral Damage posted:OHSA.jpg Is the guy standing on the ladder wearing just socks ?
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Jun 14, 2015 19:19
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He is also wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Possibly ballet slippers.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:25
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My Lovely Horse posted:This thread has damaged me. There was a moment, right between you turning on the hose and water starting to pour down, where I was convinced it would turn out that it drained to the inside of the house. Yeah, same here.
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Jun 14, 2015 20:00
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Holy poo poo, watch this guy carry 400 pounds of concrete on his neck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fSQfxKaV1I
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Jun 14, 2015 20:01
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DNova posted:Holy poo poo, watch this guy carry 400 pounds of concrete on his neck That only looks like half a large tub's worth.
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Jun 14, 2015 20:03
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DNova posted:Holy poo poo, watch this guy carry 400 pounds of concrete on his neck I like to think that when he gets to the delivery point he just throws them all down on the ground and the bags explode open.
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Jun 14, 2015 20:07
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DNova posted:Holy poo poo, watch this guy carry 400 pounds of concrete on his neck Probably only 200 lbs. Still.
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Jun 14, 2015 20:11
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NOT THIS loving poo poo AGAIN I had great hopes this thread was going to stay on topic and I see goons are still goons. gently caress this I give up, have fun being stupid spergs and arguing about how much concrete something is or whether some dude is wearing shoes or not. I've got better poo poo to do than try and wade through a crummy 99% derailed thread. 
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Jun 14, 2015 20:59
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kastein posted:NOT THIS loving poo poo AGAIN How deep are the bad posts you're wading through? Do you have the right boots on?
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Jun 14, 2015 21:48
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Zhentar posted:It's for the safety of maintenance personnel. Any appliance permanently connected that has a 1/8 HP or greater motor needs a disconnect that is within sight of the appliance. Using a cord gets around that.
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Jun 15, 2015 01:21
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By the letter of the code, yes, but I wouldn't really consider the use of disconnectable wiring "getting around" the requirement for a disconnect.
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Jun 15, 2015 01:49
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I think he just means a cord with a plug. AKA unplugging the unit is as good as flipping an "off" switch (a lot better, really, if you have a lockout box with you).
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Jun 15, 2015 09:32
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