RyokoTK posted:

So, not a thing that Id got right in Doom, but someone else did. Okay, got it.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

Like I literally just pointed out, no one's sights are aimed at Doom. The comment was pretty clearly about AAA gaming as a whole. No modern media critic is going to give a poo poo about Doom-4-as-a-Doom-sequel because Doom stopped being relevant 15 years ago; it's just Yet Another Hyper-Violent AAA Game, exactly comparable to the latest Halo or Gears or Call of Duty or Uncharted or etc.

RyokoTK posted:

So, not a thing that Id got right in Doom, but someone else did. Okay, got it.

arcsig posted:

They're a solution to a problem that never existed, the way oldschool shooters handled it was fine and is part of the reason why people like those games more than modern shooters.

The loot pinatas are only one step above auto-regenerating health.

The Kins posted:

If I may go off the current topic for a second... you made cool Marathon mods, didn't you? Are there any documents or wikis or Windows-based tools or whatever that provide easy-to-examine information about the Marathon actors? I'm thinking of recreating the Juggernaut as a Reelism boss, but I'm less familiar with that Strange Cousin of a series than I wish I was, and I'd like to at least pretend that it's similar to it's original appearance.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

They really don't; non-violent "mainstream"/AAA games are essentially non-existent outside of maybe some of Nintendo's output.

Woolie Wool posted:

Try playing maps with actual ammo balance some day. It's a thing that exists, you know.

RyokoTK posted:

Have you played Doom? Resource management is not actually an issue, even on UV you never run out of ammo unless you're very bad or you're speedrunning and deliberately skipping stuff.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

More seriously, they're also resource management. Just because they're not picking up ammo from static pickups doesn't remove resource management from the game.

RyokoTK posted:

Actually pickups being on the ground is not the reason why I like Doom, I like Doom because it's fast-paced and has fun guns and fun monsters to blow up, and loads of user-made content for it. I don't give two shits where the ammo comes from. Ammo conservation has never really been an explicitly stated part of Doom's gameplay, certainly no more than it is based on Doom 4's gameplay video. Sure there are wads that make you count out each shell, but that is absolutely a minority.

Woolie Wool posted:

So ammo conservation has to be discussed at length in the manual for you to accept that it exists? You really are retarded. I played Doom in an era before mouse controls and wikis telling you where the secrets are and ammo was absolutely a concern. Doom 4 appears dead set on making sure nothing you do has consequences beyond the next five minutes. It's a sterilized, soulless form of game design but it has become orthodoxy for almost all action games.

Lemon Curdistan posted:

"Major AAA publisher chooses to open E3 by showing hyperviolent game" isn't something that exists in a contextless vacuum. Video games do a lot of violence and don't do non-violent gameplay very often, and "major publisher shows off major new instalment in franchise all about murdering things" says something about the state of video games as a whole.

It's not like critics going "hey, wouldn't it be nice if we had more games that are about things other than shooting things" is new. It's pretty hilarious seeing nerds getting upset and reacting as if the comment is aimed at Doom specifically and that therefore the ~evil feminists~ are out to destroy their childhood, rather than Anita Sarkeesian making a comment about the entire gaming industry.

RyokoTK posted:

thanks for posting

this thread is awful.

esselfortium posted:

So do you, like, not have any actual response to the points being made, or did you just feel like shitposting to make your argument look weaker?

Woolie Wool posted:

I played Doom in an era before mouse controls and wikis telling you where the secrets are and ammo was absolutely a concern.

Korendian Leader posted:

Play maps from a pistol start.

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

See, you might be joking, but it really isn't. Obviously, Hatred's whole 'thing' is that you become some angry jackass who loves to murder everyone, whether they want to hurt you or not. Doom, like I have to explain this to anyone, is not about that at all. Context is everything.

EDIT: Come to think of it, as odd as it sounds, you COULD switch up the story so that Doomguy is the military chaplain that was stationed on the base, everyone dies, and you've got to save the world. Wouldn't change anything as like I said, you're fighting an absolute evil, literally ridding the world and hell of demons.

poo poo, this is how I'm going to play Doom from now on. Doomguy's kicking rear end for the lord.

RyokoTK posted:

Actually pickups being on the ground is not the reason why I like Doom, I like Doom because it's fast-paced and has fun guns and fun monsters to blow up, and loads of user-made content for it. I don't give two shits where the ammo comes from. Ammo conservation has never really been an explicitly stated part of Doom's gameplay, certainly no more than it is based on Doom 4's gameplay video. Sure there are wads that make you count out each shell, but that is absolutely a minority.

arcsig posted:

You're talking mostly about ammo but my issue is actually more regarding health. There were numerous times in the demo where the player was at low health and a single monster would bring him back to full.

Alain Post posted:

Zaphod42 posted:

If you think they're going to hand-craft the ammo and weapon and health pickups that each enemy encounter drops versus just setting a big loot table with percentages like "20% chance to get shotgun shells" and then just relying on RNG, you have way more faith in modern game development than I do.

Arivia posted:

What WAD is this? I hope it's not a Terry Trap. I want to play it.

quote:

Sunlust is a set of 32 boom-compatible maps for Doom II created by myself and Dannebubinga, designed to be played from pistol start.

Elliotw2 posted:

I'm really impressed that everyone's freaking out about game mechanics that are already in classic shooters. Blood already had the enemies dropping health thing and it worked there, Doom has always had enemies that exist entirely to give ammo gathering some basic challenge, it's just taking these ideas and modernizing them a bit more. It's also worth noting that these e3 demos are always played on the lowest difficulty with lots of cheats and scripts to keep the presenter from dying, so I wouldn't assume that the current pickup balance is final.

arcsig posted:

They're a solution to a problem that never existed, the way oldschool shooters handled it was fine and is part of the reason why people like those games more than modern shooters.

The loot pinatas are only one step above auto-regenerating health.

Arivia posted:

What WAD is this? I hope it's not a Terry Trap. I want to play it.

Segmentation Fault posted:

surprised you'd want to play a wad with such clear ableism (not everyone has the flexibility required to gently caress themselves)

my bony fealty posted:

im glad the new doom game broke the early fps thread

truly the legacy of brutal doom is strong

at least its not the call of doomty version they scrapped

Arivia posted:

Go gently caress yourself.

Alain Post posted:

Is Sunlust.wad problematic?

Elliotw2 posted:

I'm really impressed that everyone's freaking out about game mechanics that are already in classic shooters. Blood already had the enemies dropping health thing and it worked there, Doom has always had enemies that exist entirely to give ammo gathering some basic challenge, it's just taking these ideas and modernizing them a bit more. It's also worth noting that these e3 demos are always played on the lowest difficulty with lots of cheats and scripts to keep the presenter from dying, so I wouldn't assume that the current pickup balance is final.

arcsig posted:

I haven't played a whole lot of Blood but I don't remember enemies dropping nearly as much health as seen in this demo. But your point about the pickup balance stands.

I'm mainly just concerned that it will discourage map exploration by making health pickups less important (if they even exist? I don't recall seeing a single health pack in that demo outside of monster pinatas), and that kind of change makes me skeptical about the level design in general.

I hope it doesn't come off like I hate the game because of this though because it looks pretty fun and I'll probably buy it.

Amethyst posted:

It rules that all of the people in this thread who complained that brutal doom would ruin the game forever turned out to be 100% correct.

Sir Lemming posted:

Personally I agree that the enemies look too bland at the moment. I don't get why they're all gray.

Glagha posted:

I don't have that strong of an opinion about the trailer but I do call bullshit about the "loot pinata" thing. Having health spew out of enemies is not only leagues better than regenerating health, but is a fantastic way of encouraging a very certain sort of playstyle. Regenerating health sucks because it encourages you to hide and not play the game to survive. Health in enemies encourages you to be a demon smashing freight train because the way you heal is by killing things. It would encourage a very doomy, kinetic sort of gameplay.