|
Drone posted:Get the majority trade power in the node and then embargo England. Guildencrantz posted:Fortunately it doesn't work that way. England's power is what moves value downstream Holy poo poo its all starting to make sense...kinda. This is the clearest and most concise explanation I could have saved myself the hassle of stumbling through reddit for. Cheers!
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 17:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 23:15 |
|
|
Playing as Frankfurt made me realize how easy everything in the hre is. If I wasn't restricting myself to one province I could've formed Germany by 1600 as Frankfurt easy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 17:10
|
|
|
Vanilla Mint Ice posted:Playing as Frankfurt made me realize how easy everything in the hre is. If I wasn't restricting myself to one province I could've formed Germany by 1600 as Frankfurt easy. It's too bad electors refuse to vote for republics.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 17:16
|
|
|
So if I'm Bohemia and form HRE what cultures and groups will be accepted? German AND Czech, just Czech, both?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 17:19
|
|
|
The HRE tag is a German cultural union plus you keep your West Slavic primary culture so you get both groups.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
Luigi Thirty posted:The HRE tag is a German cultural union plus you keep your West Slavic primary culture so you get both groups. So if I'm France and somehow form HRE I'd have french and german accepted and could rule most of europe?!
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 17:29
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:So if I'm France and somehow form HRE I'd have french and german accepted and could rule most of europe?! Not quite I don't think. France is the French cultural union tag, either Germany or a unified (Renovatio, last reform) HRE is the German cultural union tag. If you formed the HRE from France, you'd have Francien as primary culture, cultural union for all Germanics, but since you switched tags you lose the cultural union on the French. They'd still be same culture group but not fully accepted automatically.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 17:32
|
|
|
Sheep posted:Whoever originally suggested Frankfurt as spot on, playing as a hyper-aggressive OPM the entire game is incredibly fun, and since you can't blob you also don't reach that inevitable tipping point where the game is over but you've still got 300 years left to play. Would highly recommend if you've not tried a free city game yet. So the benefit to being a free city is a tax boost and a call to arms to the Emperor no matter who attacks you? I might try this out and see how many cool marches I can have without getting turned on by my vassals. In my Teuton game I got Danzig to 60 for the achievement around 1600 I feel like I'm going to hit the theoretical max quickly. Any tips?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 17:33
|
|
|
Pellisworth posted:Not quite I don't think. France is the French cultural union tag, either Germany or a unified (Renovatio, last reform) HRE is the German cultural union tag. If you formed the HRE from France, you'd have Francien as primary culture, cultural union for all Germanics, but since you switched tags you lose the cultural union on the French. They'd still be same culture group but not fully accepted automatically. This is correct.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 17:34
|
|
|
I'm already playing a custom france with -30% culture threshold as a national idea and humanist ideas so basically if you have a couple provinces and a bit of development you are accepted. If I went for HRE that would be insane.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 17:51
|
|
|
Sheep posted:Whoever originally suggested Frankfurt as spot on, playing as a hyper-aggressive OPM the entire game is incredibly fun, and since you can't blob you also don't reach that inevitable tipping point where the game is over but you've still got 300 years left to play. Would highly recommend if you've not tried a free city game yet. So what idea groups do you take? Economic is a no-brainer given the amount of development you'll be doing, as is early Quantity, but I'm kind of at a loss as to what else is good for a permanent OPM. Administrative for piles of mercs? Diplomatic?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 18:01
|
|
|
So I have to admit when I used to play I'd always cheat my rear end off. I'd have a narrative my country was supposed to take and if something wasn't working out I'd just cheat my self what ever I needed. I'm now playing with basically no outright cheating (just a custom nation and the occasional tag switch to help the AI) and I'm appreciating things a lot more. Little things like -10% idea cost or core cost really add up and save your points. Also this isn't some space 4X game where you have to outstrip all your rivals in tech, just staying on par is all you really need to do in EU4 so just buy techs when they are discounted and save the rest for development and everything else.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 18:05
|
|
|
I'd like to try my hand at a Chinese nation, exploded Ming thunderdome style. Should I start a game as Ming and cause it to fall apart as quickly as possible or is there a better way?Guildencrantz posted:So what idea groups do you take? Economic is a no-brainer given the amount of development you'll be doing, as is early Quantity, but I'm kind of at a loss as to what else is good for a permanent OPM. Administrative for piles of mercs? Diplomatic?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 18:12
|
|
|
How effective is the ahead of time bonus you get for dip and admin tech anyway? I remember a while ago one of the Paradox devs said it was practically mandatory to be ahead of time in their multiplayer sessions, but I wonder if that's changed now with development.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 18:12
|
|
|
Thanks to whoever mentioned earlier about bumping up a vassal's liberty desire past 50% in order to pause their annexation. Had an absolutely golden opportunity to take a shitload of land fall into my lap and had to pause my diplo-annexation at 100% so that I could win a war and give them another half dozen provinces to core.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 18:13
|
|
|
VDay posted:Thanks to whoever mentioned earlier about bumping up a vassal's liberty desire past 50% in order to pause their annexation. Had an absolutely golden opportunity to take a shitload of land fall into my lap and had to pause my diplo-annexation at 100% so that I could win a war and give them another half dozen provinces to core. Hang on, does this mean you can use this process to avoid paying a portion of the diplo costs? 'Cause that'd be 
double nine fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jun 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 18:35
|
|
|
Poil posted:I'd like to try my hand at a Chinese nation, exploded Ming thunderdome style. Should I start a game as Ming and cause it to fall apart as quickly as possible or is there a better way? I made a mod for that, with two separate scenarios depending on how exploded you want China to be. It's not Ironman compatible and does change a couple of mechanics for the Ming (the Ming collapse is now a Disaster for example), so it might not be what you wanted. Most of the released tags also have a unique government type (Chinese State, -5 years nationalism and -0.05 autonomy with a faction system). It's also still a work in progress, so some things in the scenario and mechanics are in flux.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 18:41
|
|
|
Mugsbaloney posted:Holy poo poo its all starting to make sense...kinda. This is the clearest and most concise explanation I could have saved myself the hassle of stumbling through reddit for. Cheers! Yeah, that's trade in a nutshell. Trade Value is produced in provinces, and goes into a preassigned Trade Nodes (see the Trade Map Mode). Once that value is in the node, the relative share of Trade Power between countries moves it around. Nations can either try and Collect From Trade (this is done automatically if it's their home node), or Steer Trade downstream - value never flows upstream. If half the Trade Power is used for Collecting, and half the Trade Power is used for Steering, then half of the Trade Value stays in the node (ie. gets collected), and half of it will flow downstream to another node. Which node the Trade Value goes to is determined by the proportion of Trade Power that is being used to steer it in any particular direction. I keep meaning to write a proper writeup with pictures and stuff, but that's the really short version. Trade actually makes tons of sense if you look at the Trade map mode, and take the time to mouse over everything in the trade node screen.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 18:46
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
Koramei posted:How effective is the ahead of time bonus you get for dip and admin tech anyway? I remember a while ago one of the Paradox devs said it was practically mandatory to be ahead of time in their multiplayer sessions, but I wonder if that's changed now with development. If you're making a lot from production, trade or especially when both they can be huge bumps for your income. If you're not making that much it won't boost your income by a whole lot so you might be better staying back to save points. double nine posted:Hang on, does this mean you can use this process to avoid paying a portion of the diplo costs? 'Cause that'd be I haven't tried it but I think you'd still have to pay the full cost. This might be not as designed anyways since you can't sell a province to a vassal you're annexing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 19:06
|
|
|
Guildencrantz posted:So what idea groups do you take? Economic is a no-brainer given the amount of development you'll be doing, as is early Quantity, but I'm kind of at a loss as to what else is good for a permanent OPM. Administrative for piles of mercs? Diplomatic? I actually didn't take economic as one of my first two, but took Trade and Quantity instead since otherwise you'll have trouble making ends meet once you start fielding artillery. Influence is up next for the +50% vassal force limit contribution since that will get another few regiments and hopefully keep vassals from rebelling. After that it's basically going to be whatever lowers province development cost because that's going to get expensive real fast when it's 10 development/land forcelimit. Don't forget to make vassals marches since that gives -15% liberty desire.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 19:16
|
|
|
Yeah, these days I only directly expand into stuff in my culture group. I make everything else part of a vassal unless it's super important like a center of trade or a gold province.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 19:21
|
|
|
double nine posted:Hang on, does this mean you can use this process to avoid paying a portion of the diplo costs? 'Cause that'd be Annex costs definitely dynamicly update mid anexxation. I've had vassals develop a province mid anexxation and it updated the cost accordingly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 19:30
|
|
|
One of the tips suggests that you can send your merchant to a downstream node to "send a small amount" upstream (or words to that effect) . I take it that would be negligible?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
Mugsbaloney posted:One of the tips suggests that you can send your merchant to a downstream node to "send a small amount" upstream (or words to that effect) . I take it that would be negligible? I think what the tip means is that if you have unused trade power downstream (i.e. no merchant and you are not collecting anywhere downstream) a small amount of trade power (no trade value) gets transfered upstream.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 20:06
|
|
|
Is there any way to merge vassals? They count towards your diplomatic relations so I can't ever have more than 3 or so. I guess annex one and give the provinces to another? I sort of wish vassals alone didn't count towards dip relations. I'd love to just have every german minor a vassal rather than expand at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
What's the limit on development being a malus on liberty desire for vassals? I have a Switzerland that has a good portion of the HRE as a march with over 300 development as well as feeding France to Burgundy. I've still got some wiggle room on liberty desire but I'm guessing there's another hit for 5-600 development? Just wondering how big to make my mega-marches before I start on another one. I think I'm at 400 AE with a lot of Europe now so it's basically endless war since I don't think the exploit for removing AE works anymore. I guess it doesn't matter, I'm basically DOWing allies of guys I have peace treaties with so I can keep smashing them (well France) before they can rebuild their army. Serbia as a march has been sort of disappointing. I think I should have taken the provinces for myself and developed them first before handing them over. The Balkans is practically a wasteland that I just use to keep The Ottomans away from me while I play Caesar in Europe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 20:37
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Is there any way to merge vassals? They count towards your diplomatic relations so I can't ever have more than 3 or so. I guess annex one and give the provinces to another? I sort of wish vassals alone didn't count towards dip relations. I'd love to just have every german minor a vassal rather than expand at all. You're in luck, pass enough reforms as the HRE and you get that. If you end up annexing then giving the provinces, keep in mind that every province you sell is -10 prestige.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 20:38
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Is there any way to merge vassals? They count towards your diplomatic relations so I can't ever have more than 3 or so. I guess annex one and give the provinces to another? I sort of wish vassals alone didn't count towards dip relations. I'd love to just have every german minor a vassal rather than expand at all. Don't vassalize them but give their provinces to your vassal directly in the peace deal. Saves you a lot of headache
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 20:38
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Is there any way to merge vassals? They count towards your diplomatic relations so I can't ever have more than 3 or so. I guess annex one and give the provinces to another? I sort of wish vassals alone didn't count towards dip relations. I'd love to just have every german minor a vassal rather than expand at all. Revoke the Privilegia  No, there's no way to merge vassals like that. One thing to be careful about is having non-Western tech marches and feeding them too quickly. I've seen Eastern tech and quickly expanded marches fall really far behind on tech. Muscovy/Russia seems to be a complete pushover this patch and gets rolled by Novgorod, Kazan, even Perm. I think this may be largely due to the fort changes, they have a couple forts near Moscow and much of their provinces will be undefended by zones of control. Similarly they blow a lot more manpower on sieges and can't really handle their several hostile neighbors. I haven't seen the Burgundian Inheritance fire yet this patch, either.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 20:40
|
|
|
Pellisworth posted:I haven't seen the Burgundian Inheritance fire yet this patch, either. It's happened a bunch of times for me, except for the multiplayer game where i was austria and specifically tried to get it to fire on the other hand this just happened  
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 20:51
|
|
|
Mugsbaloney posted:One of the tips suggests that you can send your merchant to a downstream node to "send a small amount" upstream (or words to that effect) . I take it that would be negligible? Sorced posted:I think what the tip means is that if you have unused trade power downstream (i.e. no merchant and you are not collecting anywhere downstream) a small amount of trade power (no trade value) gets transfered upstream. This is exactly what it means. Trade Value only flows downstream, while Trade Power can flow upstream.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 20:56
|
|
|
Been playing an Ottoman game earlier and had an event fire they I didn't know existed - Succession war against the Malmuks. Seemed to be a bugged event as seemed to meant to fire with Persia, Venice and Malmuks all having a defensive pact against me but that never happened. It gave me claim on everyone of their provinces with the war goal to take the capital. Fought the war took the capital yet I didn't immediately get all the Malmuk provinces just the ones I claimed in the peace treaty. Will be a good event when it works correctly, as its more akin to reality and speeds up Ottoman progression to nearer historical levels.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:00
|
|
|
Yeah, it's better now but there was a version where you were best off piling all your fleets and trade power into a single node and using its gravity to hoover up trade from downstream, rather than apply trade power at those further nodes. It's still true to some extent though. Even if you already control like 99% of your home node it's still a good idea to expand your trade power because that trade power will exert a pull all the way down the chain pulling more golds in.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:01
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Yeah, it's better now but there was a version where you were best off piling all your fleets and trade power into a single node and using its gravity to hoover up trade from downstream, rather than apply trade power at those further nodes. It's still true to some extent though. Even if you already control like 99% of your home node it's still a good idea to expand your trade power because that trade power will exert a pull all the way down the chain pulling more golds in. It doesn't pull all the way up the chain any more, it's only provincial trade power, and it only transfers along one node. So if you monopolize two consecutive nodes (say, Zanzibar and Cape), you steer all the trade into the upstream node, you can collect for free, and there's poo poo all anyone can do about it without deploying fleets to steer in said upstream node.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:09
|
|
|
Koramei posted:It's happened a bunch of times for me, except for the multiplayer game where i was austria and specifically tried to get it to fire Side question, is that a font/map mod (and which one) or, if not, how do you get the clear white text and smooth border lines?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:25
|
|
|
Koramei posted:It's happened a bunch of times for me, except for the multiplayer game where i was austria and specifically tried to get it to fire Spiderfist Island posted:I made a mod for that, with two separate scenarios depending on how exploded you want China to be. It's not Ironman compatible and does change a couple of mechanics for the Ming (the Ming collapse is now a Disaster for example), so it might not be what you wanted. Most of the released tags also have a unique government type (Chinese State, -5 years nationalism and -0.05 autonomy with a faction system). It's also still a work in progress, so some things in the scenario and mechanics are in flux. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:28
|
|
|
If that's all you want why don't you just start as Ming and release all your vassals, then tag switch.nessin posted:Side question, is that a font/map mod (and which one) or, if not, how do you get the clear white text and smooth border lines?  ) submods
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:36
|
|
|
Something I never really thought about because I never bothered to actually get a handle on trade until getting back into this game when CS came out is whether or not it's worth it to have a merchant collect from your home node. I always did it because it seemed like the right thing to do, but I've only recently realized that it's sometimes more beneficial to send him somewhere else if there aren't that many other nations with significant trade power there. My home merchant, for example, was only stopping ~1.5-2 gold worth of value from "leaking out" of my home node, so instead I sent him to a node right below mine and he instead now redirects ~4 gold worth of value into my flow of networks. Where trade value and power come from and how best to min/max or just improve it can be tricky, but the basic trade flow mechanic is surprisingly simple once you sit down and go "Ok what does this stuff actually mean and what is actually happening when I do this?"
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:36
|
|
|
So I'm playing my first game after about two years dry of EU4, and there are a couple things new that I'm struggling with. Fortunately none of it new to Common Sense: 1) Just what are Trade Companies? Are they simply a province modifier or something else? I keep seeing references as to how a Trade Company might be a separate entity almost like a colonial nation, but all I see is the button to add a provice to the trade company which puts a couple positives and negatives on the province. 2) This might actually be partly new to common sense, but has forced vassalization always been so expensive (diplo point wise)? Is there some form of casus belli that can reduce the cost, or is that a mission specific thing?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 21:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 23:15 |
|
|
VDay posted:Something I never really thought about because I never bothered to actually get a handle on trade until getting back into this game when CS came out is whether or not it's worth it to have a merchant collect from your home node. I always did it because it seemed like the right thing to do, but I've only recently realized that it's sometimes more beneficial to send him somewhere else if there aren't that many other nations with significant trade power there. My home merchant, for example, was only stopping ~1.5-2 gold worth of value from "leaking out" of my home node, so instead I sent him to a node right below mine and he instead now redirects ~4 gold worth of value into my flow of networks. Where trade value and power come from and how best to min/max or just improve it can be tricky, but the basic trade flow mechanic is surprisingly simple once you sit down and go "Ok what does this stuff actually mean and what is actually happening when I do this?" Yeah sometimes you just need to do some trial and error to figure out the optimal flow to your treasury. Sometimes getting more raw ducats in your node comes at the expense of less going to your treasury, but usually the reverse is true. It's better to have 60% control over a 30 ducat node than 90% control over a 10 ducat node. And of course don't be afraid to move your trade capital! I really do wish you could have multiple collection points. For instance if you are playing france and have both the english channel and southern france/italy on lock down you fully control 2 end-nodes but can only extract without major penalty from one. There's a lot of quirks to the trade system but it doesn't really aim to be realistic or even an abstraction of much, it's just a game feature to add an interesting mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 22:03
|
|