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JacquelineDempsey posted:
I've long thought that the whole "humane" angle that's played up with lethal injection is mostly a front. There's a much more humane method that I'd imagine costs less, to boot: simply put them in an airtight room and slowly pump in pure nitrogen. They'd feel lightheaded and maybe have a hallucination or two and then they'd be gone. Capital punishment really isn't about deterrence, it's about revenge - and when you look at it that way, the methods that we as a society have deemed acceptable make much more sense. Although I agree with your general point - guillotine probably wouldn't be a bad way to go.
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Jun 13, 2015 01:21
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It doesn't matter what your stance is on capital punishment (and please, for the love of this thread, let's not derail it on that subject), the fact that some states are making their own secret, untested cocktails of lethal injections in the name of "humane" executions is pretty fuckin' creepy. Give me the Razor of France over that, any day.
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8 Ball posted:The Howard Unruh story reminded me alot of the Hungerford massacre, which I actually learnt about in this thread despite the scarcity of firearms in my country and the rarity of killing sprees. Only killed 16 people and Wikipedia calls it "one of the worst firearms atrocities in UK history"? 'Round here we call that Tuesday  
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Jun 13, 2015 01:50
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For true crime books, I really enjoyed "Shot in the Heart" by Mikal Gilmore, brother of Gary Gilmore. Includes a lot of family backstory and is just fascinating. Had to read it for a university course on serial killers by a local legend, Elliott Leyton, who wrote "Hunting Humans" and consulted on a number of international cases. Honestly, just going to class to listen to his stories was absolutely fascinating.
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Jun 13, 2015 03:41
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Centripetal Horse posted:Also, this could easily be cross-posted into the "badass" thread:
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Jun 13, 2015 04:42
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wootsie posted:For true crime books, I really enjoyed "Shot in the Heart" by Mikal Gilmore, brother of Gary Gilmore. Includes a lot of family backstory and is just fascinating. Had to read it for a university course on serial killers by a local legend, Elliott Leyton, who wrote "Hunting Humans" and consulted on a number of international cases. Honestly, just going to class to listen to his stories was absolutely fascinating. Was Leyton the guy in that documentary when he says that the the 30 active serial killers a year is way too low? e: I misread, most definitely not lol
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Jun 13, 2015 05:19
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Frostwerks posted:Was Leyton the guy in that documentary when he says that the the 30 active serial killers a year is way too low? What documentary? There was one about him called "The Man who Studies Murder". Haven't gotten around to watching it. I saw the edit, but I'm also super interested in watching documentaries about stuff like this.
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Jun 13, 2015 05:24
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A Pinball Wizard posted:Only killed 16 people and Wikipedia calls it "one of the worst firearms atrocities in UK history"? 'Round here we call that Tuesday Round where? Even in the USA that'd be in the top 10
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Jun 13, 2015 08:13
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Dropping in to recommend a few true crime books. I find the genre a bit problematic, not in terms of ethics or morality, but mostly because there are a lot of terrible writers out there producing horrible purple prose with hyperbolic hand-wringing about "evil" and "justice". So, just like WebSleuths then. * Under the Banner of Heaven - John Krakauer: recommended above. Krakauer is a good author that doesn't indulge in sensationalism and he makes a good case that a gruesome set of murders in the present day was almost programmed to occur by the tenets of Mormon faith. * Exit the Rainmaker - a strange story about the disappearance of a college president, which starts to turn up all sorts of odd things in his past history. Not gruesome. * The Monster of Florence - Douglas Preston: This actually is very purple and a bit over the top, but the case is so interesting that it survives that treatment. Essentially, a series of attacks on "lovers lane" couples leads the Italian police in a ludicrous circus of accusations, arresting suspects and letting them go, the media swarming around the case. The author makes a claim for having identified the perpetrator. * Blood on the Snow - Jan Bondeson: Bondeson deals in historical mysteries and this one is a very non-sensational mannered take on the assassination on Swedish Prime Minister Olaf Palme. In brief, Palme and his wife spontaneously decide to go to the movies one night, on a whim decide to walk home. On the way, a man steps out of a doorway, is seen to have a brief conversation with them and then shoots Palme and runs off. The police response is muted and chaotic, with incorrect descriptions being distributed. A cavalcade of suspects is proposed - agitators, immigrants, communists, rogue police, intelligence agents and so on. Bondeson proposes a solution that is reasonable albeit not airtight.
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Jun 13, 2015 09:03
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A Pinball Wizard posted:Only killed 16 people and Wikipedia calls it "one of the worst firearms atrocities in UK history"? 'Round here we call that Tuesday Well made documentary on it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrAowjf5ULQ
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Jun 13, 2015 12:29
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outlier posted:
You forgot to mention the best bit about this book!! The prosecutor makes a case that it's a satanic cult/satanists doing the murders. Turns the trial/s into huge freak show and muddies the water as to the truth so the case is unsolvable. When the Author actually does this guys job for him, the Prosecutor goes Full Witch Hunter and actually accuses and brings charges against the author for being The Murderer/accessory to the Murderer. This Prosecutor then goes on to be the prosecutor for poor Amanda Knox. If you read this book and then read about her (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Knox) there is no way she is guilty. Her sex cult orgy killing has his fingerprints all over it. Since that's exactly the same arguments he made about the Monster of Florence.
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Jun 13, 2015 15:03
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dissss posted:Round where? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
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Jun 13, 2015 15:12
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http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vasili-blokhin-historys-prolific-executioner/ Hope he botched the last one and hope it loving hurt.
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Jun 13, 2015 16:59
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It's been many years since I read the Gilmore book but I remember being impressed with it. Pretty dysfunctional family. I couldn't finish Mailer's The Executioner's Song. Actually, I could barely start it. Thanks to Bonestructure for fascinating and sad posts. Sorry that she had a meltdown (with aggravated mod sass) and got banned. Posts like hers - detailed, intelligent and compassionate - are what makes this thread compelling. Thanks to Atomicthumbs for the Scientology weirdness. I recommend Going Clear, Lawrence Wright's investigation, for anyone wanting an overview of Scientology
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Jun 13, 2015 20:09
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:Thanks to Atomicthumbs for the Scientology weirdness. I recommend Going Clear, Lawrence Wright's investigation, for anyone wanting an overview of Scientology Seconding this. I just finished the audio book and I want to listen to it again. Tidbits include: -L. Ron Hubbard kidnapping his infant daughter. -An alleged affair between Hubbard and Robert Heinlein. -Hubbard trying to (unsuccessfully) electrocute himself. -The CoS forging military documents and somehow getting away with it. -The mysterious disappearance of David Miscavige's wife. Also, in the spirit of this thread, the thing that unnerves me most about L. Ron Hubbard is his rotten teeth. 
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Jun 14, 2015 00:07
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Stare-Out posted:As for books on serial killers, my favorite so far has been Robert Graysmith's Zodiac Unmasked. You should note that it's kind of sensationalist and has some pretty wild theories but regardless contains pretty much all the known facts about the case and paints a detailed portrait of Arthur Leigh Allen, the most prominent Zodiac suspect. It should also be noted that Arthur Leigh Allen was officially excluded from the list of suspects back in 2002. A partial DNA profile was developed from the saliva on the letters and it does not match Allen. The 60's was long before DNA profiling was done, so it seems unlikely that Allen would have had someone else lick the envelopes to cover his tracks. I'm honestly confused why Allen is still thought of as the Zodiac when he was cleared almost 15 years ago. I mean, I know it's because of Graysmith's book and the 2007 movie but still, the chances it was him are close to 0%. DNA seems to clear only Zodiac suspect / New-found evidence may allow genetic profile of '60s killer That 70s Shirt has a new favorite as of 19:28 on Jun 15, 2015 |
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Jun 15, 2015 19:25
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Yeah, the DNA does cast a shadow on the case against Allen but there are also theories that the Zodiac may have had accomplices but like most stuff with the case, it's circumstantial at best and just about impossible to prove. DNA is a strong but of evidence but I wouldn't say it means the chances of Allen not being the Zodiac are 0%. It would be amazing if they managed to get a full DNA profile from the samples though, if only to test it against the profiles of people who claim their father was the Zodiac.
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Jun 15, 2015 23:00
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Will he have to share his slaves if he had an accomplice? Or is it first come, first serve?
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Jun 15, 2015 23:22
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Old DNA seems a little suspect, though, unless the envelope was perfectly preserved from the moment it first arrived. It's a little like that guy who decided he could figure out who Jack the Ripper was because he bought a scarf that one of the victims was wearing the night she was killed, not caring that it had been passed around as an heirloom for like 100 years after that and was previously worn every night by a woman whose job was to collect as much male DNA as she could, after a manner of speaking. Did they care at all about the circumstances of the envelope?
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Jun 15, 2015 23:39
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For anyone interested in the McStay case, they're about to try the guy accused of the murders. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-mcstay-hearing-20150615-story.html Apparently this genius was cashing postdated checks with the McStay's name on them after the murders and the FBI found that his cell phone was near the gravesite. Seems like he did them with a sledgehammer, rough way to go, especially for a four-year-old  . I'm against the death penalty but would shed no tears if they fried this guy.
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Jun 16, 2015 03:29
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Eien Ni Hen posted:Seconding this. I just finished the audio book and I want to listen to it again. Tidbits include: This led me, via wikisurfing, to the Hole. Dig the bladed fence designed to keep people in.
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Jun 16, 2015 04:25
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Crime books: Go Down Together is about Bonnie & Clyde. It tells their rather pathetic story in a non-sensationalist manner. drat, they were so young, and Bonnie had so much promise. Starkweather is about Charles Starkweather and his wild killing spree. His partner, Carol Fugate, was a big part of everything. Helter Skelter is a classic, must-read account of the Manson Family murders, as told by DA Vince Bugliosi.
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Jun 16, 2015 09:27
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:This led me, via wikisurfing, to the Hole. Dig the bladed fence designed to keep people in. Oh god, the infamous musical chairs story. quote:According to Janet Reitman, in the late fall of 2004 Miscavige called together 70 senior Church executives in a pair of double-wide trailers normally used as the international management team's offices. They were ordered to play a game of musical chairs in the management conference room. Those who failed to get a chair when the music stopped would be "offloaded" from the base to be sent away from their spouses and children to languish in the most remote and unpleasant locations in Scientology's empire. As Queen's Greatest Hits was played, the competition for seats became increasingly fierce: "By the time the number had dwindled to twenty, people were throwing one another against the walls, ripping seats from one another's hands, wrestling one another to the floor."[20] At the end of the contest, Miscavige ordered that all the executives were to stay in the conference room and sleep under the tables until further notice. They stayed there for the next few days, with occasional deliveries of food, before being released.[20] The Church's then chief spokesman, Tommy Davis, has acknowledged that the "musical chairs" incident occurred and says that it was "intended to demonstrate how disruptive wholesale changes could be on an organization" but dismisses the accounts of threats and violence.
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Jun 16, 2015 09:54
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Stare-Out posted:Yeah, the DNA does cast a shadow on the case against Allen but there are also theories that the Zodiac may have had accomplices but like most stuff with the case, it's circumstantial at best and just about impossible to prove. DNA is a strong but of evidence but I wouldn't say it means the chances of Allen not being the Zodiac are 0%. I know the movie really pushed the theory that Allen had a friend who at the very least knew what he was doing and wrote the letters. Was that just thrown in there to explain why his DNA wouldn't have been on the envelopes or is there something in the real case that supports that idea? Louie Myers, one of the more recent suspects, is interesting because he's got just as much circumstantial evidence against him as Allen. He can be connected to three of the victims, had access to the type of boots used in the crimes, and was conveniently overseas during a two year period when there were no new Zodiac letters. I wouldn't just automatically dismiss suspects who popped up recently because the killer seems like the type who would want to take credit, and it makes sense that he'd make some sort of attempt to tell the public what he'd done as long as he knew he'd never be punished(old age/imminent death).
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Jun 16, 2015 16:10
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All the posters recommending Under the Banner of Heaven have it. The details are so disturbing, but Krakauer writes in such a way that you don't want the book to end. The murders were incredibly brutal, and I still can't get my head around the fact that they occurred in such a quiet, friendly place. I have several friends from one of the Mormon sects mentioned in the book, so it hit particularly close to home. I think it's time to reread.
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Jun 16, 2015 18:00
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AGirlWonder posted:All the posters recommending Under the Banner of Heaven have it. The details are so disturbing, but Krakauer writes in such a way that you don't want the book to end. The murders were incredibly brutal, and I still can't get my head around the fact that they occurred in such a quiet, friendly place. I have several friends from one of the Mormon sects mentioned in the book, so it hit particularly close to home. I think it's time to reread. If you're in the mood for more unnerving Mormonism, try American Massacre, about the Mountain Meadows massacre in 1857. Capsule version: a large, well-provisioned wagon train bound for California is ambushed in Utah territory, very likely with the foreknowledge of none less than Brigham Young himself. Over 100 people were killed, many of them by execution, and the only survivors were the very youngest of the children, who were farmed out to local Mormon families.
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Jun 16, 2015 18:42
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pookel posted:RIP, Vladimir Komarov. This is a really good short(ish) story that follows the Soviet space programme and the career of Sergei Korolev. I assume that Novikov in the story is based on Komarov. It's really well worth reading if you're even slightly interested in that stuff.
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Jun 16, 2015 19:41
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AGirlWonder posted:All the posters recommending Under the Banner of Heaven have it. Came here to post this. I got it on Audible because I had a free credit to use and saw it mentioned in the thread. I'm only a couple of hours in and I am absolutely hooked. The writing is really masterful - aside from anything else he hops from subject to subject at just the right time. Just as I was about to start getting bored of modern day politics, he skipped back to the history of the religion for a bit, then as that was starting to lose its edge, he skipped forward to a specific case and linked it back with the introduction/prologue. It really reads like a series of long articles and it works so well for the subject matter.
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Jun 16, 2015 20:19
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Basebf555 posted:I know the movie really pushed the theory that Allen had a friend who at the very least knew what he was doing and wrote the letters. Was that just thrown in there to explain why his DNA wouldn't have been on the envelopes or is there something in the real case that supports that idea?
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Jun 16, 2015 20:55
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Aphra Bane posted:The Queen detail is kind of amazing. I can only imagine how horrifying and surreal that whole experience must have been. Tonight, I'm gonna have a real good ti*OFFICE SUPLEX, DON'T TOUCH THAT CHAIR, TED!!!*
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Jun 16, 2015 21:11
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Tonight, I'm gonna have a real good ti*OFFICE SUPLEX, DON'T TOUCH THAT CHAIR, TED!!!* I was thinking of "Don't Stop Me Now" a la Shaun of the Dead
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Jun 16, 2015 22:51
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Umbra Dubium posted:I was thinking of "Don't Stop Me Now" a la Shaun of the Dead Hmmm, wonder what the lyrics are to that song? Perhaps the poster above you could lend a hint....
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Jun 17, 2015 00:09
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Aphra Bane posted:Oh god, the infamous musical chairs story. If you're going to perform acts of cartoonish near-supervillainy, you ought to at least have a bangin' soundtrack. That wacky evil cult just gained a measure of respect in my calloused eyes.
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Jun 17, 2015 00:52
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Aphra Bane posted:Oh god, the infamous musical chairs story. Umbra Dubium posted:I was thinking of "Don't Stop Me Now" a la Shaun of the Dead There is only one right song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz_DNrKVrQ8
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Jun 17, 2015 03:41
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AGirlWonder posted:All the posters recommending Under the Banner of Heaven have it. The details are so disturbing, but Krakauer writes in such a way that you don't want the book to end. I think my favorite hosed-up-things elucidator has to be Jon Ronson, though. Go read Lost at Sea. It just gets worse and worse.
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Jun 17, 2015 03:52
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Pipski posted:This is a really good short(ish) story that follows the Soviet space programme and the career of Sergei Korolev. I assume that Novikov in the story is based on Komarov. It's really well worth reading if you're even slightly interested in that stuff. Seconding "The Chief Designer" as a great short fiction based on the Soviet space program. And for some more good stories about historical killers, the cartoonist Rick Geary has a bunch of short graphic novels - Jack the Ripper, Lizzie Borden, Charles Guiteau (killer of President Garfield), etc. (Also Gumby, but I don't think they were ever able to prove anything there.)
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Jun 17, 2015 04:37
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Bug Bill Murray posted:For anyone interested in the McStay case, they're about to try the guy accused of the murders. Haha the moron is representing himself at trial because he has six months to live and thinks that will get him acquitted faster than having a real attorney: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mcstay-murder-suspect-chooses-to-represent-self/ The judge called him an idiot to his face but let him go ahead.
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Jun 17, 2015 05:10
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drat Interesting has a great article on the bombing of Harvey's Wagon Wheel in the 80s http://www.damninteresting.com/the-zero-armed-bandit/
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Jun 17, 2015 10:26
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Tonight, I'm gonna have a real good ti*OFFICE SUPLEX, DON'T TOUCH THAT CHAIR, TED!!!* *super slo-mo shot of battle over a chair as "Who Wants to Live Forever" plays* Not gonna lie, if I was gonna punch out my boss I'd want "Princes of the Universe" playing.
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Jun 17, 2015 13:35
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Remember the shock site rotten.com? They have a depository called the Rotten Library which is actually a well-written goldmine for people who like the sort of stuff in this thread. http://www.rotten.com/library/ This section on various popes is an example of wierd/unnerving history that's hard to find put together elsewhere. http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/popes/
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Jun 17, 2015 15:15
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Phyzzle posted:Remember the shock site rotten.com? They have a depository called the Rotten Library which is actually a well-written goldmine for people who like the sort of stuff in this thread. The Rotten library rules, but hasn't been updated in several years. I think I've read every article there multiple times.
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Jun 17, 2015 15:29
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