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isndl posted:I would avoid the 840 EVO even though it's cheaper because of the firmware issues it has. It is supposedly fixed after firmware updates, but There's rumors that the updated firmware makes TRIM eat your data: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9723066
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Jun 16, 2015 09:24
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If it does, I haven't noticed it yet. I do think the 840 EVO is at 'strike two' on my 'gently caress this' chart of potentially unreliable hardware. If one more confirmed 'oopsie' comes out about it, I'm going to replace it.
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Jun 16, 2015 10:32
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Maybe we should stop recommending Samsung SSDs altogether. https://blog.algolia.com/when-solid-state-drives-are-not-that-solid/
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Jun 16, 2015 15:13
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It's a Linux specific issue, apparently.
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Jun 16, 2015 15:27
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Aphrodite posted:It's a Linux specific issue, apparently. It's a firmware issue. It manifests in Linux because right now it's the only platform that supports queued TRIM. quote:The queued TRIM problems appear to be generic to Samsung's firmware and not tied to a particular model. A recent update to the 840 EVO firmware introduced the same issue as we saw on 850 Pro.
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Jun 16, 2015 15:53
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They weren't even using queued trim.
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Jun 16, 2015 16:01
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Their update (which was present at the time the link was posted here) is especially unhelpful, since they are using the terms in exactly the wrong way.quote:A lot of discussions started pointing out that the issue is related to the newly introduced un-queued TRIM. This is not correct. The TRIM on our drives is queued and the issue we have found is not related to the latest changes in the Linux Kernel to disable this features. Queued trim is new and blacklisted, if they are really using the traditional un-queued trim, then something new is afoot. You still shouldn't use Samsung SSDs for Linux-based hardware for now, unless you can be sure that you don't accidentally issue a queued trim.
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Jun 16, 2015 16:03
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Aphrodite posted:They weren't even using queued trim. Externally you don't decide what kind of TRIM operation the kernel issues. If the drive says that it supports NCQ TRIM and it's not blacklisted in the kernel, then that's what gets used. The Samsung bug was reported months ago and Crucial drives have a similar bug.
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Jun 16, 2015 16:22
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The_Franz posted:Externally you don't decide what kind of TRIM operation the kernel issues. If the drive says that it supports NCQ TRIM and it's not blacklisted in the kernel, then that's what gets used. quote:We had kernels 3.2, 3.10, 3.13 and 3.16 distributed between the most often corrupted machines and waited to see which of the mines blows up. All of them did. E: And they unsuccessfully run smartctl -l gplog,0x13 /dev/sda. So, it's not queued trim. Grim Up North fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jun 16, 2015 |
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Jun 16, 2015 16:30
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Where are all these mSATA SSDs getting installed? PC laptops? It's not MacBooks. And PC builder mobos didn't really come with mSATA right?
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Jun 16, 2015 17:00
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Shaocaholica posted:Where are all these mSATA SSDs getting installed? PC laptops? It's not MacBooks. And PC builder mobos didn't really come with mSATA right? Thinkpads.
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Jun 16, 2015 17:46
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I'm getting a new SSD that is bigger than my current one (which is the Windows OS drive). I used Acronis to save an image of my current SSD partition to a separate drive which also has an Ubuntu partition. Can I boot into Ubuntu once my new drive is connected and just use Acronis to copy the partition over to the new drive to restore my Windows installation?
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Jun 16, 2015 21:56
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Grim Up North posted:Considering queued trim was only introduced in Linux 3.12 it is unlikely (baring distribution patches) that they were using only queued trim. gently caress Samsung after all this, you only get a second try on firmware not a third or fourth.
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Jun 17, 2015 04:12
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Skandranon posted:Most of the speed benefit will be wasted if the accesses are coming from across the network. You will gain in reliability, though depending how you do your RAID, you might be losing TRIM support I'm not even interested in speed, really, since obviously the network will be the bottleneck and 7200rpm platters are more than enough. My main interest is in minimizing heat, noise, power consumption and moving parts. I'd love to see if I can build a server with absolutely no moving parts whatsoever: SSDs, completely passive cooling, etc.
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Jun 17, 2015 05:08
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fatman1683 posted:I'd love to see if I can build a server with absolutely no moving parts whatsoever: SSDs, completely passive cooling, etc. Good news: you can!
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Jun 17, 2015 05:17
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fatman1683 posted:I'm not even interested in speed, really, since obviously the network will be the bottleneck and 7200rpm platters are more than enough. My main interest is in minimizing heat, noise, power consumption and moving parts. I'd love to see if I can build a server with absolutely no moving parts whatsoever: SSDs, completely passive cooling, etc. You can, that's easy. The question is, are you willing to spend 10x $/gb to do so?
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Jun 17, 2015 05:35
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Thermopyle posted:Good news: you can! Actually, SSDs seem to deal poorly with heat.
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Jun 17, 2015 08:11
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They don't say how much heat though - I'd imagine Facebook runs everything as hot as they can to save on cooling costs. I don't imagine the disks in a sff passive PC are going to get up to very high temperatures anyway, even compared to something like a Macbook Air
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Jun 17, 2015 10:07
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Up until this point there hasn't been much reason to make them since only top-end Z97 boards and X99s were packing SATA Express ports (and Xeon boards). Once Skylake starts becoming available I think you'll see more of them coming out that don't cost nearly a grand. That being said, M.2 slots in-between PCIe slots are a really compelling place to put them that doesn't require any wires being strung about. M.2 or whatever flavor of the year storage interface will forever remain in that tiny niche unless they get the SATA/USB3 treatment where even the cheapest of mobos comes with them as standard.
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Jun 17, 2015 13:12
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My 3.5 year old Intel 320 SSD just bit the dust in a terrible way. Windows crashed, and after reboot prompted me with a message indicating a drive problem. I pulled the SSD and hooked it up via USB to another computer to find that the drive was reporting itself as 8MB and the End-to-End error smart value was tripped. It was on the most recent firmware so this wasn't the old 8MB after power failure error of old. Intel did me a solid and replaced it under their extended 5 year warranty, but I'm pretty surprised to lose an Intel SSD with very little wear so suddenly.
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Jun 17, 2015 14:52
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Naffer posted:My 3.5 year old Intel 320 SSD just bit the dust in a terrible way. Windows crashed, and after reboot prompted me with a message indicating a drive problem. I pulled the SSD and hooked it up via USB to another computer to find that the drive was reporting itself as 8MB and the End-to-End error smart value was tripped. It was on the most recent firmware so this wasn't the old 8MB after power failure error of old. Ironically between Mushkin, Samsung and Intel, the only SSDs we've actually had go tits up are Intel. 3 of them.
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Jun 17, 2015 15:02
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Palladium posted:M.2 or whatever flavor of the year storage interface will forever remain in that tiny niche unless they get the SATA/USB3 treatment where even the cheapest of mobos comes with them as standard. For desktop PCs yeah, but there is way large enough market in laptops for them to be economical.
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Jun 17, 2015 15:39
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fatman1683 posted:I'd love to see if I can build a server with absolutely no moving parts whatsoever: SSDs, completely passive cooling, etc. And now I want to see a liquid cooled datacenter, followed by that datacenter going horribly wrong.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:26
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RFC2324 posted:And now I want to see a liquid cooled datacenter, followed by that datacenter going horribly wrong.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:37
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My organization has purchased a Samsung 850 Pro for a 2010 Mac Pro that we will have to upgrade from Mountain Lion to Yosemite, as a software upgrade has forced us to upgrade OS X. We are looking to deploy five more within the next week or so for the same reasons. Are there any red flags from using the 850 Pro without TRIM? These are post-production workstations being mainly used for After Effects and Premiere.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:49
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Naffer posted:My 3.5 year old Intel 320 SSD just bit the dust in a terrible way. Windows crashed, and after reboot prompted me with a message indicating a drive problem. I pulled the SSD and hooked it up via USB to another computer to find that the drive was reporting itself as 8MB and the End-to-End error smart value was tripped. It was on the most recent firmware so this wasn't the old 8MB after power failure error of old. I'm nearly sure those are using the Sandforce chipset they bought a long time ago and 'fixed'. Sandforce chipsets are not stable and have never been, never ever purchase a drive with one of these controllers no matter who makes it.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:20
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redeyes posted:I'm nearly sure those are using the Sandforce chipset they bought a long time ago and 'fixed'. Sandforce chipsets are not stable and have never been, never ever purchase a drive with one of these controllers no matter who makes it. I'm not even going to correct you.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:01
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So given all the discussion above about TRIM issues and Samsung drives, would the 850 PRO still be recommended for OSX or should I look at other drives/hold off awhile?
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Jun 18, 2015 17:39
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redeyes posted:I'm nearly sure those are using the Sandforce chipset they bought a long time ago and 'fixed'. Sandforce chipsets are not stable and have never been, never ever purchase a drive with one of these controllers no matter who makes it. Uh, we buy SandForce drives by the bucket load. We haven't had any problems with them. OWC went with SandForce on their pricy drives, and Intel chose SandForce for a ton of their drives. The only SandForce issues I know of were from like 3+ years ago. Their chipsets are quite mature and stable now. It's very trusted. SandForce 22xx series is probably the oldest chipset still being put into new SSDs. That speaks volumes.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:40
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Xenomorph posted:Uh, we buy SandForce drives by the bucket load. We haven't had any problems with them. Well every single SSD that has died for me has been a Sandforce and literally nothing else.. Ancedotal I know but yeah the 22xx series is way old at this point. quote:I'm not even going to correct you.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:43
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SourKraut posted:So given all the discussion above about TRIM issues and Samsung drives, would the 850 PRO still be recommended for OSX or should I look at other drives/hold off awhile? If had a Samsung SSD in an Apple computer would not go around Apple and enable TRIM on non-Apple SSDs. Who knows what bugs lurk in Samsung SSDs when accessed by non-Windows OSes. Fortunately it seems that the 850 PRO works well with TRIM disabled, according to the OP.
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Jun 18, 2015 20:00
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Grim Up North posted:If had a Samsung SSD in an Apple computer would not go around Apple and enable TRIM on non-Apple SSDs. Who knows what bugs lurk in Samsung SSDs when accessed by non-Windows OSes. Yeah, that's the tricky part - I had planned on going with an 850 PRO in the Mac mini I just got and not use TRIM, but TRIM support for 3rd Party SSDs is coming in OS X 10.11 later this year so I would want to be able to enable it when the time came... I thought about the Intel 730 480GB or a 480GB Sandisk Extreme Pro but the 730 might put off more heat than I'd like and it seems like the Extreme Pro isn't really recommended around here much.
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Jun 18, 2015 20:44
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Put off more heat? It does take more power but these things do not get hot in the least.
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Jun 18, 2015 21:12
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I have had a 840EVO in my Hackintosh for a fair while now and other than that performance issue that required a firmware patch nothing bad has happened so far with trim enabled.
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Jun 19, 2015 07:25
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redeyes posted:Put off more heat? It does take more power but these things do not get hot in the least. I'd disagree. I haven't ran the 730 but I have ran the Crucial M500, it's very similar in power usage. There's a very noticeable difference in the palmrest of the laptop directly where the SSD is.
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Jun 19, 2015 12:39
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Bob Morales posted:I'd disagree. I haven't ran the 730 but I have ran the Crucial M500, it's very similar in power usage. There's a very noticeable difference in the palmrest of the laptop directly where the SSD is. I'm sure you have to be feeling something else, most SSDs idle below 1w. I've used quite a few and never felt one to be more than slightly warm to the touch.
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Jun 19, 2015 14:41
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Bob Morales posted:I'd disagree. I haven't ran the 730 but I have ran the Crucial M500, it's very similar in power usage. There's a very noticeable difference in the palmrest of the laptop directly where the SSD is. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/806?vs=1141
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Jun 19, 2015 14:48
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redeyes posted:I'm sure you have to be feeling something else, most SSDs idle below 1w. I've used quite a few and never felt one to be more than slightly warm to the touch. Yea, it was probably something else warming up the exact area where the SSD is under the palmrest. The people who posted similar reviews for Crucial's mSATA SSD's on Amazon and Crucial's own forums must also be feeling something else.
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Jun 19, 2015 15:10
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So is Samsung now not recommended or is it just a Linux problem? Are there any brands that are (as far as is possible) considered safe to buy?
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Jun 22, 2015 19:48
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Welp, got my Intel 750 1.2TB PCIe NVMe in today. I sure hope it's as fast as it is in my dreams...
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Jun 22, 2015 20:07
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