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Talmonis posted:It's the most common one, unfortunately. See also the weird fixation people have of "spree-shootings" and "assault rifles." Statistics should drive policy, but instead it seems like the most unlikely and unimportant events are focused on the most because a child might be impacted.
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Jun 15, 2015 19:07
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Powercrazy posted:See also the weird fixation people have of "spree-shootings" and "assault rifles." Statistics should drive policy, but instead it seems like the most unlikely and unimportant events are focused on the most because a child might be impacted. Absolutely. Though really some people need to keep in mind that statistics aren't infallable (looking at the free-range nuts here), the odds being in your favor are no excuse to stop paying attention to your kids/surroundings/etc.
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Jun 15, 2015 20:23
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What is a "free-range nut?" Do you think this group of "otherized" people don't pay attention to their kids/surroundings/etc?
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Jun 15, 2015 22:19
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Meanwhile, on the topic of pretrial abuse:quote:A Manhattan man has spent nearly all of the past seven years locked up on Rikers Island awaiting trial — a dubious record for pretrial incarceration that is not likely to end anytime soon, experts told The Post.
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Jun 15, 2015 22:28
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Powercrazy posted:What is a "free-range nut?" Do you think this group of "otherized" people don't pay attention to their kids/surroundings/etc? It's a movement based on a book. They explicitly don't. They believe that kids need that lack of adult supervision to properly develop, and cite statistics as their reasonong. They then go on to advocate the elimination of the sexual offender list (which, while somewhat correct, is troubling in context that they also don't watch their children) and against unaccompanied adults at playgrounds ordinances. Kids as young as six, at parks alone and such. It seems very irresponsible to put so much faith in a statistic that you would take seemingly stupid risks.
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Jun 16, 2015 02:04
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San Diego Deputy Caught On Camera Choking and Tasing 13-Year-Old Child (Updated) http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/06/san-diego-deputy-caught-on-camera-choking-and-tasing-13-year-old-child/ i have no words
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Jun 16, 2015 02:11
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SpeedGem posted:San Diego Deputy Caught On Camera Choking and Tasing 13-Year-Old Child (Updated) quote:“There were other juveniles and people in the area with skateboards and there was only one deputy,” Caldwell said. “He needed to get the situation under control as quickly as he could.” This ties into the incident I brought up before from Ask a Copgoon, where the officers who responded said that they wouldn't interfere in a case of police brutality because it risked "losing control of the situation." Is this actually how officers are trained? It seems like they believe that not only do cops have to be the voice of authority, but that they're constantly surrounded by potential threats and they need to use violence and intimidation to keep the peace. At what point does a reasonable person think that a group of innocent preteens and high school freshmen are going to just mob a police officer and beat him to death with their skateboards for daring to arrest someone?
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Jun 16, 2015 02:20
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SpeedGem posted:San Diego Deputy Caught On Camera Choking and Tasing 13-Year-Old Child (Updated) That skater must had met the one-drop rule.
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Jun 16, 2015 02:21
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Talmonis posted:It's a movement based on a book. Meh, the previous conventional wisdom for child rearing was based on frontier life so being updated for modernity seems good to me. And yes children need to be without adult supervision sometimes otherwise they never grow up. The sexual offender list elimination is a good idea too, but seems like a non-sequitur. I also have no problem being against adult-supervision requirement. If I want to supervise my kids I will, if I'm comfortable enough with my kids to let them play in the park across the street or w/e that should be fine too. I don't really see anything alarming about this movement.
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Jun 16, 2015 02:30
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chitoryu12 posted:This ties into the incident I brought up before from Ask a Copgoon, where the officers who responded said that they wouldn't interfere in a case of police brutality because it risked "losing control of the situation."
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Jun 16, 2015 02:38
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Dead Reckoning posted:You keep bringing this up, but never actually source your quotes. You could have asked earlier. The debate begins on this page and continues from there. Quotes directly from flakeloaf: quote:There's also the way that cops fighting each other makes suspects and other swarthy people want to take advantage of the chaos. The goal in any situation is to keep the peace - make a loud noise, take the other officer's hands off your guy and maintain the appearance of control over the situation. That is direct words from a police officer that he would not have arrested a fellow cop for assaulting and knocking out an unarmed man and that attempting to arrest him could cause "swarthy people" to go ballistic and start a riot because....we're all just potential threats?
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Jun 16, 2015 03:02
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i'm a cop arrested for licking cows vaginas ama
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Jun 16, 2015 03:06
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SpeedGem posted:i'm a cop arrested for licking cows vaginas ama quote:In Mount Holly, New Jersey, Officer Melia was indeed caught sexually assaulting a cow, but his sexual crimes did not end with non-humans. Melia was also charged, several years ago, with sexually assaulting three girls. http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/05/cow-cop/
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Jun 16, 2015 03:12
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Tubesock Holocaust posted:his sexual crimes did not end with non-humans This is not a sentence that any reasonable person should ever have to write.
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Jun 16, 2015 03:30
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chitoryu12 posted:This is not a sentence that any reasonable person should ever have to write. Like when you're speeding with a trunk full of dead hitchhikers.
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Jun 16, 2015 03:32
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Wasn't it the other way around, though? I thought they were trying to nail the guy for the girls, but found the livestock poo poo on his computer during a search.
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Jun 16, 2015 03:37
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look you have to understand, if he hadn't molested those children and cows he would have lost control of the situation
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Jun 16, 2015 03:45
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Dazzling Addar posted:the dude literally hosed a cow and the judge is still covering for him When you grow up on a farm in Georgia, your first girlfriend is a mule. You people are so far removed from the reality... welcome to domestic life on a farm.
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Jun 16, 2015 04:04
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chitoryu12 posted:You could have asked earlier. The debate begins on this page and continues from there. Quotes directly from flakeloaf:  Did you not read what you quoted? First, you've walked it back from your original allegation that the police wouldn't intervene to stop a fellow officer from brutalizing a suspect to not immediately arresting them,chitoryu12 posted:This ties into the incident I brought up before from Ask a Copgoon, where the officers who responded said that they wouldn't interfere in a case of police brutality because it risked "losing control of the situation."
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Jun 16, 2015 08:39
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http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/dallas-police-shooters-father-says-liberal-people-drove-son-to-breaking-point/quote:Dallas police shooter’s father says ‘liberal people’ drove son to ‘breaking point’ Problem solved. Time for a final solution. Line up your libs, lawnmower coming through. quote:The elder Boulware said his son was broke and unable to find work due to his criminal record, although his son had purchased an $8,250 armored vehicle on eBay that he used during the assault on police headquarters. Fuckin libs. The father is without a doubt extremely upset, and just lashing out at emotionally tried-and-true Texan targets, its just sad that he is railing against the theoretical political machinations that, in some utopian alternate reality, would have helped his troubled son.
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Jun 16, 2015 08:53
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The father also said something about white men not being able to get help in america during an interview.
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Jun 16, 2015 13:36
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FRINGE posted:http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/dallas-police-shooters-father-says-liberal-people-drove-son-to-breaking-point/ Oh my yes. This isn't the first instance of White ISIS pouting by committing terrorism, and there will be many more. And this indulgent attitude towards white terrorism, where people try to put it in the context of the terrorist's frustration, won't be limited to the perpetrator's family. It's sadly ironic that this approach of putting things in context would be more useful applied to terrorism abroad, where the brutal repression we're all too happy to apply to foreign terrorists would be more appropriate here.
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Jun 16, 2015 14:49
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SedanChair posted:Oh my yes. This isn't the first instance of White ISIS pouting by committing terrorism, and there will be many more. And this indulgent attitude towards white terrorism, where people try to put it in the context of the terrorist's frustration, won't be limited to the perpetrator's family. It's sadly ironic that this approach of putting things in context would be more useful applied to terrorism abroad, where the brutal repression we're all too happy to apply to foreign terrorists would be more appropriate here. But SedanChair, if we're mean to conservatives in the media, they'll claim that we're biased!
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Jun 16, 2015 15:45
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SedanChair posted:Oh my yes. This isn't the first instance of White ISIS pouting by committing terrorism, and there will be many more. And this indulgent attitude towards white terrorism, where people try to put it in the context of the terrorist's frustration, won't be limited to the perpetrator's family. It's sadly ironic that this approach of putting things in context would be more useful applied to terrorism abroad, where the brutal repression we're all too happy to apply to foreign terrorists would be more appropriate here. Because brown terrorists (the dreaded "other") do not receive the same sort of courtesy and understanding as white American terrorists. Hell, we're usually loath to call them "terrorists" most of the time.
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Jun 16, 2015 19:04
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If we examined foreign terrorism purely through the lens of nutcases with lovely families, y'all would be complaining that we were using mental illness as a tool to dismiss them as "crazy arabs" rather than examining their economic and political motivations.
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Jun 16, 2015 19:18
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I know you just come to this forum to dish out the hottest takes you got, but you understand that in the scenario you laid out the thread would be right, don't you? Mental Illness contributes as well as economic and political circumstances to extreme actions.
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Jun 16, 2015 19:33
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Dead Reckoning posted:If we examined foreign terrorism purely through the lens of nutcases with lovely families, y'all would be complaining that we were using mental illness as a tool to dismiss them as "crazy arabs" rather than examining their economic and political motivations. I wasn't talking about mental illness, I was talking about terrorism and what terrorists perceive as their own motivations. Mental illness is only a part, and it's a pretty insignificant one without a persecution narrative supplied by reactionary ideologues. This is as much the case when the reactionary ideologue is al-Baghdadi as when it's Glenn Beck. But erroneously, we have concluded that drone strikes and assassination are an appropriate response in only one of those cases, and not in the other.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:16
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Man chases ex wife through town crashing into her vehicle then shoots her in front of their seven year old and two police officers who happen to be nearby. The officers then let him wander around, armed, for another 90 seconds before he fires four additional rounds into his ex. Officers then delay medical assistance for 30 minutes while they talk him into surrendering. Witnesses report officers hugging the killer and patting him on the back. Guess the killer's job? http://www.app.com/story/news/local/eatontown-asbury-park/asbury-park/2015/06/16/asbury-park-shooting/28808357/ http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/2015/06/wife_shot_by_neptune_police_officer_dies.html#incart_2box_nj-homepage-featured DARPA fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 06:05
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DARPA posted:Man chases ex wife through town crashing into her vehicle then shoots her in front of their seven year old and two police officers who happen to be nearby. poo poo, even a wealthy white businessman wouldn't be given this much benefit of the doubt if he started shooting. The cops literally let their crazy "brother" murder someone in front of their eyes and still went above and beyond to avoid having to lay a finger on him.
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Jun 17, 2015 06:51
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DARPA posted:Man chases ex wife through town crashing into her vehicle then shoots her in front of their seven year old and two police officers who happen to be nearby. Something something about not being there, not knowing the situation well enough, and how its better to trust the officers on the scene than media reports because the Cop always knows best. Or So let me get this straight, you want cops to just shoot up every single person they see??? Wasn't this thread complaining about cops not rendering medical aid just like two pages ago...you can't point out police treat each other like humans and the rest of us like animals without wanting everyone treated like animals! Better start reducing police-on-police brutality first, we'll get to everyone else later. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 07:11
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chitoryu12 posted:poo poo, even a wealthy white businessman wouldn't be given this much benefit of the doubt if he started shooting. The cops literally let their crazy "brother" murder someone in front of their eyes and still went above and beyond to avoid having to lay a finger on him. There were two cops nearby that hid behind their bullet proof car doors when the shooting started if I understand the story right. If shooting is in progress a single officer is going to hide and call in the cavalry. I mean if they unloaded from across the street it sounds like it's just as likely that there'd be two dead kids so I'm not sure what you wanted to happen. Maybe the officer should have charged in at someone actively shooting? I'm sure they'd find a badass medal to bury with him.
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Jun 17, 2015 07:19
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hobbesmaster posted:There were two cops nearby that hid behind their bullet proof car doors when the shooting started if I understand the story right. If shooting is in progress a single officer is going to hide and call in the cavalry. If you were reading the article it is clear the the officers were on scene and talking to him before he killed his wife and had taken the child away when that happened: quote:The youngest daughter was in the front seat of Philip Seidle's silver Honda Pilot as the violence unfolded. Philip Seidel first chased Tamara Seidle's car through Asbury Park, and then fired the first round of bullets, LeMieux said. Officers who were on the scene then talked Seidle into allowing them to remove the girl from his car, but once they did so, Seidle — who had been holding a gun to his own head — then walked to the front of his wife's car and shot her again, the prosecutor said. Meanwhile, non-cops get killed for having a But if you're a cop, you get to shoot up a car, pull a gun to your head, then walk around and kill someone, all without getting shot by the officers you are talking to at the very moment.
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Jun 17, 2015 07:25
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hobbesmaster posted:There were two cops nearby that hid behind their bullet proof car doors when the shooting started if I understand the story right. If shooting is in progress a single officer is going to hide and call in the cavalry. There's video on the first link posted that shows how it all went down, and it's nothing like what you think would happen. At least two officers were already on scene when he began shooting, and more had arrived by the time he fired again into his wife after they negotiated him into surrendering the innocent kid. I literally cannot think of any other situation where an active shooter standing still and firing at an innocent person while surrounded by cops would not result in the officers trying to stop him. They were in a situation where even the most liberal and peace-loving people in this thread would have probably been okay with the cops shooting him, and they spent half an hour letting the woman bleed out while negotiating with their bro to give himself up peacefully. How many people would he have to shoot before the officers actually tried to take him down? How many bullets would he need to fire into his wife before it's okay?
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Jun 17, 2015 07:26
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hobbesmaster posted:There were two cops nearby that hid behind their bullet proof car doors when the shooting started if I understand the story right. If shooting is in progress a single officer is going to hide and call in the cavalry. They seem to manage to shoot any black person who even looks remotely armed so I'm not sure what the problem was here.
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Jun 17, 2015 07:29
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Starshark posted:They seem to manage to shoot any black person who even looks remotely armed so I'm not sure what the problem was here. However when someone actually has a gun and is shooting you hide. Maybe they're the worst hostage negotiators and thought that it was all good after they got him to release one? Edit: that one actually makes sense. we know him he's not insane since they work with him every day! we've talked him down and now everything will be just f-BANGBANGBANGBANG-gently caress hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 07:36
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Their behavior was just barely in the realm of acceptable when they negotiated the release of the kid and didn't just shoot him when he put a gun to his head. I say "barely" because cops were already there when he was committing murder and they were well within their rights to just blast him as soon as he fired the first shot. But then he starts shooting again and they not only let him keep firing, but they keep with the negotiating when for all they know he just definitively killed someone. Or for all they know, the victim is mortally wounded but could be saved with prompt medical attention...which they don't render, because they spend the next half hour talking to him. The one time when the cops can actually go guns blazing with a legitimate justification virtually anywhere in the world, and they let it slide because it's another cop. Combine that with their hugging and comforting of him as he's arrested, and it does more than just imply that they give cops special treatment even when they're actively murdering people right in front of them: it implies that his wife's life is worth less than his own, and that it's better to let her die than harm him.
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Jun 17, 2015 07:43
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chitoryu12 posted:Combine that with their hugging and comforting of him as he's arrested, and it does more than just imply that they give cops special treatment even when they're actively murdering people right in front of them: it implies that his wife's life is worth less than his own, and that it's better to let her die than harm him.
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Jun 17, 2015 09:09
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Vahakyla posted:I agree with your other points, but compassion and kindness are not commodities that run out. They should be given to everyone and them comforting him is not taken away from anyone else. Although that should be shown towards every perp. We've been trying the whole "cops treating cops like humans and hope the humanity trickles down to the rest of us" for a while and it hasn't exactly seemed to work. Remember that Tamir Rice's 14 year old sister was handcuffed after he was shot dead? This man just murdered a woman in front of her child and he gets hugs, compassion and kindness. But I'm sure if we give enough killer cops hugs eventually things will get better for the rest of us.
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Jun 17, 2015 09:15
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"Some other cops shot a black guy, so why can't these cops throw aside all human sentiment and gun down one of their co-workers in the middle of a hostage situation?"
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Jun 17, 2015 09:18
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Dead Reckoning posted:"Some other cops shot a black guy, so why can't these cops throw aside all human sentiment and gun down one of their co-workers in the middle of a hostage situation?" That guy who said this would be the bootlicker response called it. Trabisnikof posted:So let me get this straight, you want cops to just shoot up every single person they see??? Wasn't this thread complaining about cops not rendering medical aid just like two pages ago...you can't point out police treat each other like humans and the rest of us like animals without wanting everyone treated like animals! Better start reducing police-on-police brutality first, we'll get to everyone else later. What if...the criticism is that cops should show compassion, professionalism, and restraint in all situations and not just when it's one of their friends doing the crime?
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Jun 17, 2015 09:24
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