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Malcolm XML posted:java before JIT/hotspot was slow as poo poo though this is kind of true, but at the same time people were very happily using things like perl that were just as slow and have never gotten any faster, and being slow as poo poo never seemed to hold python or ruby back it just turned into a huge deal in the single case of java, and hung around as a prejudice long after it stopped being remotely true i have legit seen people write cpu-limited stuff in python because they want more safety than c++ can provide and they think java is too slow to bother with
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Jun 16, 2015 19:17
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java applets are still slow to start up though
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Jun 16, 2015 19:31
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I think thats because slow languages like ruby and perl aren't really used in the interactive UI space, whereas Java was. most people's complaints around Java's slowness tend to base that on Applet and UI performance (i.e. Eclipse).
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Jun 16, 2015 20:05
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nah i've seen plenty of interactive in-house stuff using poo poo like perl/tk and tkinter. they're slower than java. i'll give you the applet thing though, no idea why anyone would ever use an applet
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Jun 16, 2015 20:18
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startup speed is disproportionately important in people's impressions of something's performance, and JVM startup has always been terrible.
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Jun 16, 2015 20:25
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i guess that's true as well god though i'm trying to fix up a tkinter app right now (don't ask, don't ask, don't ask) and it's hell on wheels figuring out where the problems are without anything like jvisualvm. and it's still going to be slow as gently caress even when i've done everything i can, even pushing some of the cpu-bound stuff out into a c extension module.
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Jun 17, 2015 00:21
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here's a funny programmer joke for y'all python concurrency
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Jun 17, 2015 00:24
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Soricidus posted:here's a funny programmer joke for y'all
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Jun 17, 2015 00:27
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see, lots of things that are bad with various languages i can see why they've done it. null, optional semicolons, [] being linked lists, etc etc, even the weak, dynamic and completely hosed type system of php but python is the one language which seems to intentionally make things worse. they honestly seem to double down on bad decisions more than any other mainstream language the two that i can think of off the top of my head are removing TCO, and the global interpreter lock that never seems to go away. didn't guide say that he didn't like list comprehensions and wanted to take them out or something? gonadic io fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 00:29
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gonadic io posted:didn't guide say that he didn't like list comprehensions and wanted to take them out or something? If I recall that was the stuff from a functional lib (map, filter, etc.) which could be better served by list comprehensions.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:13
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Soricidus posted:i guess that's true as well atleast it only has 1 thread to debug
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Jun 17, 2015 01:15
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Soricidus posted:here's a funny programmer joke for y'all dont really like gross-out humor
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Jun 17, 2015 01:22
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Valeyard posted:atleast it only has 1 thread to debug lol
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Jun 17, 2015 01:22
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startup time doesn't really matter for services though because the poo poo's running all the time. (right?)
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Jun 17, 2015 01:40
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i guess it matters a little more with containers / clouds and the rise of microservices
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Jun 17, 2015 02:20
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fleshweasel posted:startup time doesn't really matter for services though because the poo poo's running all the time. (right?) for literally everything except php, yes.
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Jun 17, 2015 08:56
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Valeyard posted:atleast it only has 1 thread to debug it has multiple processes fml
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Jun 17, 2015 09:42
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gonadic io posted:didn't guide say that he didn't like list comprehensions and wanted to take them out or something? pretty sure it's the opposite, he loves them and hates map/reduce/filter GIL is funny though and so is no TCO because it is 'unpythonic'
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Jun 17, 2015 17:20
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Ploft-shell crab posted:pretty sure it's the opposite, he loves them and hates map/reduce/filter yeah my mistake
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Jun 17, 2015 17:33
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i've been using c# properly for the first time ever, after months of working on sql bullshit. i'm kinda loving it. linq is the bees balls. having conversations about using linq to interact with lync is the bees sexual suicide.
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Jun 17, 2015 18:34
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maybe i'm stupid but how would tco be unpythonic when it's basically an implementation optimization?
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Jun 17, 2015 18:43
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efficiency is unpythonic
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Jun 17, 2015 18:45
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rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:maybe i'm stupid but how would tco be unpythonic when it's basically an implementation optimization? behind-the-scenes implementation-dependent optimizations are unpythonic because they make code that works suddenly stop working when the implementation changes* * does not apply to behind-the-scenes implementation-dependent optimizations that guido likes
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Jun 17, 2015 18:50
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unpythonic is a weird way of saying "good" or "correct"
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Jun 17, 2015 18:50
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rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:maybe i'm stupid but how would tco be unpythonic when it's basically an implementation optimization? encourages styles of programming that he doesn't like
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Jun 17, 2015 18:57
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what is the best way to concatenate a bunch of javascript libs together. grunt? gulp? yeoman? browserify? hand rolled makefile? piping the files into a big one? folding them with haskell?
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Jun 17, 2015 21:01
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Jun 17, 2015 21:04
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pram posted:what is the best way to concatenate a bunch of javascript libs together. grunt? gulp? yeoman? browserify? hand rolled makefile? piping the files into a big one? folding them with haskell? the best way is to remove the disk from rthe compurer and hit it repeatedly with a sledgehammer until all the files are stuck together op
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Jun 17, 2015 21:06
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pram posted:what is the best way to concatenate a bunch of javascript libs together. grunt? gulp? yeoman? browserify? hand rolled makefile? piping the files into a big one? folding them with haskell? the answer is probably just piping all the files into a big one
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Jun 17, 2015 21:08
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the disk is soldered into the motherboard
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Jun 17, 2015 21:08
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try out RequireJS and let us know how it works because i want to know too
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Jun 17, 2015 21:09
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youd think bower could handle something like this? it must be a common thing wtf. ill look at requirejs
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Jun 17, 2015 21:12
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oh it does in fact do what im describing http://requirejs.org/docs/optimization.html#onejs
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Jun 17, 2015 21:16
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Valeyard posted:try out RequireJS and let us know how it works because i want to know too it works but it makes all of your code more confusing
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Jun 17, 2015 21:17
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MALE SHOEGAZE posted:it works but it makes all of your code more confusing
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Jun 17, 2015 21:33
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how come c apis are so hard http://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/apb.html i just want to move some windows around
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Jun 17, 2015 21:49
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because manual resource management sucks
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Jun 17, 2015 22:35
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MALE SHOEGAZE posted:how come c apis are so hard hi i'm a c api, please give me three void pointers, and their lengths. i will fill one of them with data and read from the other two. if any of the lengths are wrong, or any of the data uninitialised, or the wrong type pre-casting, you're absolutely hosed.
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Jun 17, 2015 23:20
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gonadic io posted:hi i'm a c api, please give me three void pointers, and their lengths. i will fill one of them with data and read from the other two. if any of the lengths are wrong, or any of the data uninitialised, or the wrong type pre-casting, you're absolutely hosed. also i hope you remember which one is which because i didnt bother to name the parameters anything sensible and even if i did you cant annotate it at the call site so lol!!!
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Jun 17, 2015 23:24
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gonadic io posted:hi i'm a c api, please give me three void pointers, and their lengths. i will fill one of them with data and read from the other two. if any of the lengths are wrong, or any of the data uninitialised, or the wrong type pre-casting, you're absolutely hosed. you forgot the function pointers for the callbacks
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Jun 17, 2015 23:26
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