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Not to derail, but I'm proud to say I've been training my daughter on personal finance and credit since she was 8. She's 12 now and I was showing her the credit card offers that I get twice a week in the mail, from the same banks over and over. And I show her how to read the terms and see how bad the fees and interest are. Which is crazy, I have fantastic credit and I constantly get offers for terrible cards with huge annual fees and huge interest, when I already have 3 cards with no fees and low interest and great rewards programs. I also make her do the math on "which is the better deal" when cards offer you the low interest/no fee vs no interest/low fee on balance transfers. But anyway, I also walked her through my re-finance on my house, showing her the difference between my former bad mortgage and my new good one. Even if she doesn't retain the info, the concept of "banks will happily let you gently caress yourself over unless you protect yourself" is deeply ingrained in her, and the pros and cons of credit as well. I explained that credit is like dynamite, it's a tool that can be used to mine gold, but if you're not careful it can blow your legs off. But she's bad with money, she blows her entire allowance on clothes. Department store credit cards are going to be a huge temptation for her later.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:02
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Haifisch posted:My line of thought exactly. In a perfect world parents would teach their kids budgeting, cooking, car maintenence, etc, but a lot of parents don't. Either because they can't(not enough time, don't know how themselves) or because they don't think it's important. One of the most valuable things my parents did for me as a kid was, whenever I got birthday or Christmas money, forced me to put half of it in the bank so I wouldn't spend it. Of course as a kid I hated it, but growing up it got me into the habit of understand that just because I have money, doesn't mean I should spend it. I don't agree with all of their financial decisions, but that's one lesson I'm thankful for. As far as schooling in personal finances, I got about two weeks of that in high school after my AP US History exam. We learned how to make a budget, write checks, balance a check book, and how interest and poo poo like that worked. It was totally useless and lost on everybody. It's not so much that the subject matter was wrong, the method for teaching it was poorly planned out.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:15
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Renegret posted:One of the most valuable things my parents did for me as a kid was, whenever I got birthday or Christmas money, forced me to put half of it in the bank so I wouldn't spend it. Of course as a kid I hated it, but growing up it got me into the habit of understand that just because I have money, doesn't mean I should spend it. My dad would do this to me, except with savings bonds, so there was no way for me to ever get that money when i wanted to spend it. but, they ended up helping me pay for my car repairs in college.
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Jun 17, 2015 20:39
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My 14 year old has been saving babysitting money from this summer for the next iPhone. I made her buy her last phone full price, but it's now occurred to me that's kind of a dick move. Sure it encourages saving and appreciation for her devices, but ALL of her friends get theirs for free or they might pay the $100 under contract price. So instead I'm considering dumping the full amount into her own checking account with her own debit card; maybe charge her the $25 or so each month that T-Mobile charges me for the phone installments. Just put her allowances in there and see how long until she drains the account. Let her learn that lesson with a debit card instead of a credit card.
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Jun 17, 2015 22:04
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Krispy Kareem posted:My 14 year old has been saving babysitting money from this summer for the next iPhone. I made her buy her last phone full price, but it's now occurred to me that's kind of a dick move. Sure it encourages saving and appreciation for her devices, but ALL of her friends get theirs for free or they might pay the $100 under contract price.
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Jun 17, 2015 22:29
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Krispy Kareem posted:My 14 year old has been saving babysitting money from this summer for the next iPhone. I made her buy her last phone full price, but it's now occurred to me that's kind of a dick move. Sure it encourages saving and appreciation for her devices, but ALL of her friends get theirs for free or they might pay the $100 under contract price. Free? Aren't "free with contract" phones always costing the same as retail, just baked into the plan cost?
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Jun 17, 2015 22:41
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This comes up every hundred pages or so, the problem with financial literacy is that it doesn't work.quote:One of the study’s authors, the economist Lewis Mandell, was a founder of the modern financial literacy movement, but the evidence has prompted him to turn his back on the mainstream financial literacy paradigm. “Financial education doesn’t work when it’s given in advance of when the consumer needs it,” he says flatly.
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Jun 17, 2015 22:46
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I guess I'd frame it as: financial literacy works whether or not our current techniques for imparting it do. Time to figure out which genes impart propensity for financial literacy and screen for them in embryos.
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Jun 17, 2015 22:51
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Krispy Kareem posted:My 14 year old has been saving babysitting money from this summer for the next iPhone. I made her buy her last phone full price, but it's now occurred to me that's kind of a dick move. Sure it encourages saving and appreciation for her devices, but ALL of her friends get theirs for free or they might pay the $100 under contract price. My parents did this for me. They gave me $1000 and a $50 a month budget after that when I turned 13, and if I wanted something besides food or school supplies I had to pay for it myself. It worked pretty well but I ended up dressing terribly for a long while.
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Jun 17, 2015 22:52
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It is everything I thought it would be and more So, over Christmas break I went into a Best Buy to get my mom a chrome cast for her TV for Christmas. At the purchase lane, I was asked If I wanted to set up a Best Buy rewards account. I politely declined, but after the cashier said "Are you sure?...You would save 30% (or some appealing percentage that escapes me now) on your purchase today". So i figured "What the hell, there's no harm in that". So i began entering in my credentials, annual income, address and whatnot. After a few minutes, I start to question how long this is taking and how much info I'm having to enter in multiple times. I was asked to enter my SSN into the keypad and knew something was up. Soon the manager came out and the cashier was grinning at me. I was asked to verify my birth date and the last digits of my SSN again. I was then informed that I had won $2,000 in store credit. I was in disbelief. I, having just turned 18 a couple of months before Christmas, had never had much financial experience and didn't know what to do with the money. The cashier seemed to be genuinely happy for me and she asked if I wanted to "go back into the store and buy anything else" she also told me "not to go spending all that money too quickly". I just left with what I had bought, and cried out of happiness on the drive home, avoiding going back into the store and making impulse purchases. So when I got home, I read the terms pamphlet that I was handed when I was informed of my "luck". It seemed to be as good as I was told it was. I tried to double check everything; even the circled "Available Store Credit: $2,000" that the cashier had written on my chrome cast receipt. After making sure I wouldn't have to pay any of it back, I went back to the store a day or two later and picked out a few items in elation. Before purchasing, I spoke to the manager and even asked multiple employees walking around and asked If I would have to pay anything back, ever, ensuring that I would be debt-free. So over the course of about a month, I spent all $2,000 on a TV, Ipad, PS4/games for my college roomates, and various Christmas present surprises for my friends back home and at college. I was extra careful to make sure I didn't spend a penny more than the $2,000 and I didn't and I was also careful to keep every receipt and the card terms. During the time of all of these purchases, except the PS4/games, I did not have a physical card and was making these purchases by having the cashier look up my account info via me entering credentials and locating my account. When my card came in the mail, nearly a month later, I activated it and looked at my account. I was confused to see that I had a payment due that equated to $2,024 with 27% interest. I didn't know what to do. I'm a college student already struggling to make ends meet financially and I don't know what to do with this exponentially growing problem. I can't deal with this stress in my life right now. I've already dealt with suicide attempts/depression due to the death of a girlfriend and best friend and I don't know how I'm going to get past this. I just don't understand the legality of what they're doing and I don't know where to turn and I don't think I can get legal help to battle this, because I don't know if they technically did anything illegal. They just abused the ignorance of a kid and mislead them. I just don't know how to deal with this and I really need help. I don't want to have to struggle any more with loans and I can't ask my friends to return gifts that I gave them. How can people be so cruel? Cheating people during Christmas I just don't get it. Best Buy is a vile company. TL;DR: Manipulated by Best Buy into a hole of $2,000 in debt and don't know where to turn.
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Jun 17, 2015 23:13
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I think that one has been posted before, is there any resolution to the matter?
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Jun 17, 2015 23:22
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pathetic little tramp posted:It is everything I thought it would be and more I think the best option for that poor innocent soul is either joining the armed services or suicide. Either way they are not in a position to make decisions greater than what to eat for dinner at any point in the near future. Some people are just too sensitive to function on their own in society. I once had two customers come into my library asking for assistance scanning their passports to send to an incredibly sketchy looking financial company via email. Apparently they were offering incredible returns on your initial investment, without ever explaining how or why. They had wired hundreds of pounds each to an address somewhere in China, and their 'account' said they were now worth thousands and doubling weekly! To get their money out they just needed to send scans of their passport, bank and national insurance details and two forms of photo ID... I spent a long time trying to persuade them it was absolutely a scam but they just weren't able to cope with the idea. Apparently this was the third or fourth time they'd gone through this process with different companies and had never got any money back from it. In the end I refused to scan it and put them in touch with the local credit support agency but loving hell how do these people make it through life? I felt so bad not being able to help them more.
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Jun 17, 2015 23:29
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When I was in high school in Indiana it was required senior year of high school to take 1 semester of government and 1 semester of economics for a core 40 diploma. Is this not standard country-wide? The classes weren't even like history classes they were flat out prep courses to make sure you understood how our government worked as well as understanding terms and agreements in lending.
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Jun 18, 2015 00:48
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pathetic little tramp posted:It is everything I thought it would be and more I cringed reading that again.
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Jun 18, 2015 00:53
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Sounds like he's the kind of person who orders a computer and gets pissed off that he got a useless box instead of a monitor, except instead of computers it's store credit cards. I can't be certain but I bet he asked if "store credit" needed to be paid back, if he asked anything at all. At some point your ignorance becomes your own fault, and it's not like there are extenuating circumstances like if he had just moved here from a country where credit cards are rare. $2000 is a pretty small hole compared to most of the stories we read here, he should be able to dig himself out of it quickly. If there lesson sticks it'll be a huge discount compared to what a lot of other people have paid for the same lesson.
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Jun 18, 2015 01:24
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When I was a university student people were getting popped left and right for $3k by the RIAA. Just sheer luck I didn't and it's so much more bullshit than best buy because now you can listen to any song for free on YouTube. I remember one guy on my senior project team settled because they pull a court date on our presentation day.
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Jun 18, 2015 01:38
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Bad with money the OECD with it's bloated banking sector, according to the OECD. http://www.interest.co.nz/news/76036/yellen-speaks-softly-prepares-two-rate-hikes-grexit-near-oecd-says-bank-credit-hurts quote:Back in the real world, the OECD has said governments should limit the amount banks can lend to households and cap the pay of top-earning male executives in the finance sector if it wants to avoid another financial crisis. It said its research shows that bank loans slow growth compared with credit provided by other market sources such as bonds and equities. There's another link inside the article. http://www.oecd.org/economy/financial-sector-must-promote-inclusive-growth.htm quote:At today’s level of financial development, further expansion of bank credit to the private sector is shown to slow growth in most OECD countries. A rise of bank credit by 10% of GDP translates into a GDP growth rate that is 0.3 percentage points less than would otherwise be the case, according to the OECD. That's right a 10% increase in lending leads to slower growth by -0.3%. The banks are too big to fail and suck the life out of the economy at the same time.
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Jun 18, 2015 01:45
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Renegret posted:I cringed reading that again. I cringed every time someone quoted the whole loving thing. Twice when someone did it and only posted a one sentence reply.
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Jun 18, 2015 04:05
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pathetic little tramp posted:
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Jun 18, 2015 05:55
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Haifisch posted:How many people are running around unaware that credit cards aren't free money, that they should look at total costs instead of monthly payments, that saving money is important, that renting isn't throwing away money, and a hell of a lot more? How about one studying personal finance on his own time because of personal responsibility? What do you think? After all, it is pretty obvious that it is helpful. It is only a matter of whether you are willing to endure the pain of reading through a bunch of textbooks and doing the research to educate yourself.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:13
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John Smith posted:How about one studying personal finance on his own time because of personal responsibility? What do you think? To be fair though, some people have blatantly manipulative influences in their lives or might be led to sources that are straight up unreliable. That isn't to say that every school district will choose the finest textbooks and hire the best teachers, but at least it might be better than leaving some people to follow the advice of the people in their environment. As an example: my mother was told by her father that rolling over her 401k into her new employer's 401k was a stupid idea, and she needed to cash it out so she could get better returns with her own investments. She made the mistake of assuming that her own dad gave a poo poo about her best interests, so she followed his advice and cashed out her 401k. As soon as he heard that she had cashed it out, he instantly asked for a small business loan, because the returns on his business were going to be so much better than any silly retirement plan! Important context here is that he had at least two decades of failed businesses under his belt at this point, but the next one was totally going to be a winner. 
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Jun 18, 2015 16:23
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John Smith posted:How about one studying personal finance on his own time because of personal responsibility? What do you think? But that's what reading SomethingAwful is for!
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Jun 18, 2015 16:32
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...amming-nationalquote:San Antonio Spurs legend Tim Duncan stated this week that misplaced trust in a financial adviser caused him to lose more than $20 million, but it won't impact his decision-making process about whether to continue playing or retire. He took it well at least. He may be one of the few athletes that don't go broke.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:37
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darkwasthenight posted:I think the best option for that poor innocent soul is either joining the armed services or suicide. I prefer they choose suicide. Some people are not meant for this world and we should not prolong their suffering any further. Just because it is no longer predator and prey in the traditional sense of being consumed for food doesn't mean that it is no longer predator and prey. Some people are just born to be prey. legsarerequired posted:To be fair though, some people have blatantly manipulative influences in their lives or might be led to sources that are straight up unreliable. That isn't to say that every school district will choose the finest textbooks and hire the best teachers, but at least it might be better than leaving some people to follow the advice of the people in their environment. Then clearly they failed to identify proper sources. I was not able to fit finance courses in my university education because I was doing some other minor. So I borrowed textbooks from the public library, where they were clearly marked and readily available for all citizens to borrow. Then I endured the pain and agony of suffering through the 3 textbooks (authored by professors from 3 different universities for source diversity) and became a better man for it. I did other work too, but the textbooks were arguably the foundation of all that followed. What I did could be done by any citizen (except the intellectually disabled, which is a distinct minority). Public libraries are free. And so is the suffering and agony of reading the extremely boring textbooks.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:43
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John Smith posted:I prefer they choose suicide. Some people are not meant for this world and we should not prolong their suffering any further.  Tell us more about how you just discovered Nietzsche and it, like, totally changed your life. Do you have any views on eugenics you'd like to share as well?
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Jun 18, 2015 17:14
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eugenics is cool and has a bad rap, we should certainly use it on a widespread basis to get rid of bad stuff like heritable diseases come at me bro
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Jun 18, 2015 17:27
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How do you feel about structural inequality/unequal access to education, and/or the justified and often racialized mistrust of the government/authority leading to things like stuffing money in mattresses?
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Jun 18, 2015 17:29
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I love the thought that teachers aren't bad with money. Maybe if we needed classes on spiking coffee and with beam or operating a VCR while hung over.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:32
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I'm just laughing at the idea that reading finance textbooks (agony!) is a key step in developing good personal finance skills. Most people who lead financially sound lives have probably never cracked open a textbook on the subject, and plenty of people with degrees in it are terrible at managing their own finances.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:37
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Hey college educated dude who thinks poor people should bootstraps or commit suicide, I got a book rec for you: Savage Inequalities by Jonathan Kozol. I think that all responsible citizens (except the intellectually disabled, which is a distinct minority) have an obligation to inform themselves about the society they live in before going on the internet and posting their dumbshit opinions.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:47
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we'd be better off if we instituted standardized marshmallow testing for 4 year olds and executed them painlessly if they fail
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Jun 18, 2015 17:54
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John Smith posted:I prefer they choose suicide. Some people are not meant for this world and we should not prolong their suffering any further. I'm Ebeneezer Scrooge, AMA
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Jun 18, 2015 18:09
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:we'd be better off if we instituted standardized marshmallow testing for 4 year olds and executed them painlessly if they fail Marshmallow test results are strongly correlated with parents class status. Who knew!
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Jun 18, 2015 18:14
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When I see predatory financial practices and institutions my first instinct is to blame the people who benefit least from it, because they are the problem.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:15
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People are poor because they are shiftless and stupid, don't you people know anything about how society works?
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Jun 18, 2015 18:36
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:we'd be better off if we instituted standardized marshmallow testing for 4 year olds and executed them painlessly if they fail I think we should go further and process the carcasses into food products.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:05
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It's bootstraps all the way down. No matter what you do or say the next generation is going to gently caress up routinely. Financial education might help from an intellectual standpoint, but when your new boyfriend really needs a co-signer for that used Chrysler, most young people are going to go with their hearts. A better idea would be to make a law that says if you're too young to easily rent a car then you're probably too young to make financial decisions or sign into contracts that haunt you for the rest of your life.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:06
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Maybe something that only allows for unsecured debt/binding contracts that can last the number of years youve legally been an adult.
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Jun 18, 2015 20:15
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Lol poor people, 2k in debt might as well kill yourself amirite? 
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Jun 18, 2015 20:33
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:Maybe something that only allows for unsecured debt/binding contracts that can last the number of years youve legally been an adult. Good luck waiting until you're 48 to buy a house.
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Jun 18, 2015 21:12
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