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Zaphod42 posted:I came across some art recently that really loving inspired me: Keep in mind that "art" in modern video games is an assembly line process. It's not a bunch of guys in Texas finding Adrian Carmack and wow he's a good artist, they're hiring graduates from art colleges with no particular talent or insight, who execute standardized styles in a workmanlike way for (this is the important part) extremely low pay. There's very little actual art involved. If you did hire Wayne Barlowe as Doom 3's art director, the actual visual assets workers would likely have no idea what to do with his designs and just go with the styles that have been drilled into them instead. This is compounded by the fact that every single asset goes through many, many hands on its way to being a finished part of the game. Adrian Carmack and Kevin Cloud did everything themselves. A Doom 4 art asset requires dozens of plug-in beep boop Photoshop and Lightwave robots doing exactly what they've been trained to do, nothing more, nothing less. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 01:19
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Woolie Wool posted:Keep in mind that "art" in modern video games is an assembly line process. It's not a bunch of guys in Texas finding Adrian Carmack and wow he's a good artist, they're hiring graduates from art colleges with no particular talent or insight, who execute standardized styles in a workmanlike way for (this is the important part) extremely low pay. There's very little actual art involved. If you did hire Wayne Barlowe as Doom 3's art director, the actual visual assets workers would likely have no idea what to do with his designs and just go with the styles that have been drilled into them instead. Yeah, I know. You're 100% right. I just... I lament. Like I said though Dark Souls uses some Beksinki style, you can totally do some cool artistic poo poo, its just most studios aren't trying. They're maximizing profits, yeah. But there are a few studios that seem to give a poo poo, at least. The second point isn't lost on me. Early games like Mortal Kombat had a handful of programmers even. I'm a software developer, now the teams are all dozens of people, some companies like Blizzard have more than 50 developers on a single team, its loving insane. And it makes it harder to do really creative poo poo. But it can be done. Maybe more with smaller teams or indie. Bloodborne had some really fantastic art imagery and original style, if FROM can do it anybody can.  That's also why John Carmack was pushing technology to enable artists more with his last days at Id, the ultimate goal of megatextures was to free artists to be able to add detail wherever they wanted without having to worry about how it effected the rest of the development pipeline or the performance. And the latest IdTech has stuff where multiple people can work on the same map in conjunction, to cut down on development time and hurdles for multiple people to work on the same level. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 01:24
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I think Doom 4 would have been a better game if they just farmed it out to a small developer and told them to use Id Tech 1 as a starting point (not a Doom II level pack, actually writing new code and making a new game, but using the old engine) but of course they would never do such a thing in a million years. It worked great for Capcom, as I observed earlier in the thread.
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Jun 18, 2015 01:32
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Woolie Wool posted:I think Doom 4 would have been a better game if they just farmed it out to a small developer and told them to use Id Tech 1 as a starting point (not a Doom II level pack, actually writing new code and making a new game, but using the old engine) Also: this is largely what brutal doom is 
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Jun 18, 2015 01:40
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Well I wouldn't really expect miracles from that either, but then I never really saw the need for a Doom 4 at all.  But at least a small company with a small budget would have more of a chance to do something creative, and the less asset fidelity they need, the better.
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Jun 18, 2015 01:52
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Your method might have resulted in Doom 4 having a single unique idea in it, so I'd say it's better than what we've seen so far.
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Jun 18, 2015 01:59
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I just want the cacodemons to be red again.
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Jun 18, 2015 02:12
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MONKET posted:I just want the cacodemons to be red again. nice, i want a sexy woman to suck my pen0r until i shoot long ropes of white cum
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Jun 18, 2015 02:31
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Woolie Wool posted:Well I wouldn't really expect miracles from that either, but then I never really saw the need for a Doom 4 at all.  On a related note, what's Raven up to? I haven't seen a game from them since Wolfenstein 2009. Surely they got some plans for Hexen 3 or a Heretic sequel that isn't a third person platformer. This would be the perfect time, too.
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Jun 18, 2015 02:37
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Barlowe worked on Dante's inferno and some other game I forget and both looked like poo poo bc there's an enormous difference between a painting and a video game. Not that it can't be done, translating cool concept art into cool visuals, Japanese devs for some reason are much better at it, but it requires more than just cool concept art.
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Jun 18, 2015 02:39
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Bread Pudding posted:I just want a good new game from iD. I don't want to believe that Doom was one of a kind and they'll never do anything like it again. Activision has them making Call of Duty mappacks. Man, a new Heretic or Hexen from them would be so cool.
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Jun 18, 2015 02:40
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loga mira posted:Barlowe worked on Dante's inferno and some other game I forget and both looked like poo poo bc there's an enormous difference between a painting and a video game. Not that it can't be done, translating cool concept art into cool visuals, Japanese devs for some reason are much better at it, but it requires more than just cool concept art. Oh poo poo really?  Well so much for that. I was never saying it was just concept art though, dunno where the heck you were getting that from. I was just saying I wanted Doom to be creative, and then gave examples of creative depictions of hell that aren't just standard videogame fare.
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Jun 18, 2015 02:40
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Bread Pudding posted:On a related note, what's Raven up to? I haven't seen a game from them since Wolfenstein 2009. Surely they got some plans for Hexen 3 or a Heretic sequel that isn't a third person platformer. This would be the perfect time, too. Apparently they've been teasing a sequel to Singularity on Twitter, which was the last game they made before Activision put them to work on Call of Duty multiplayer content.
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Jun 18, 2015 02:43
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C.M. Kruger posted:Apparently they've been teasing a sequel to Singularity on Twitter, which was the last game they made before Activision put them to work on Call of Duty multiplayer content. They also showed a bunch oh Hexen stuff, there was a Raven 25th Anniversary logo in the corner and I think it turned out to be a celebration of their anniversary with things like Singularity multiplayer. I hope it's something more, but I doubt it. Edit: Yeah, their Twitter has #RVN25 tag on their Singularity post, as well as Hexen posts, Jedi Outcast, Call of Duty stuff, X-Men Legends, Black Crypt... It doesn't mean anything as far as new games are concerned. catlord fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 02:47
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loga mira posted:Not that it can't be done, translating cool concept art into cool visuals, Japanese devs for some reason are much better at it, but it requires more than just cool concept art.
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Jun 18, 2015 02:58
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They should have given it to Machinegames, because that studio at least has two very nice shooters in the past few years. All id has in 2015 is a name.
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Jun 18, 2015 03:13
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Zaphod42 posted:Which is scarier? Oh come on, the original Cyberdemon is also a thing with stompy legs and a rocket launcher for an arm, it's not scary either.
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Jun 18, 2015 04:23
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The original cyberdemon was scary too in it's own massive, imposing, rocket-launcher-to-the-face way
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Jun 18, 2015 04:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCigiEuRvrA The ideal Doom 4.
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Jun 18, 2015 04:53
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Wrong music for the map, gonna have to dock a few points.
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Jun 18, 2015 04:54
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Elliotw2 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCigiEuRvrA The ideal Doom 4.  Looks like it belongs in the Bad Architecture thread in GBS.
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Jun 18, 2015 05:01
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Man Unreal 4 is a beautiful graphics engine though.
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Jun 18, 2015 05:03
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Elliotw2 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCigiEuRvrA The ideal Doom 4. Human language does not have words to convey how repulsive this is. 
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Jun 18, 2015 05:17
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Woolie Wool posted:Human language does not have words to convey how repulsive this is. I can't decide if it's better or worse than that really bad Doom 3 one.
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Jun 18, 2015 05:30
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the imps are made out of brownies
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Jun 18, 2015 05:56
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 I'd play this.
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Jun 18, 2015 06:01
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In og doom cyberdemon's arm is a red herring and it actually fires rockets from its dick. if that's not frightening then I don't know what to tell you
Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 06:06
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Took me a few days to catch up on everything that's been said. I'll just say I'm generally feeling positive about Doom 4; although I have several reservations, most of which have already been raised in this thread, I still think it looks like it'd be a fun ride to go on. I mean, it's not my ideal of "just Doom 2 verbatim, mechanically, but with Quake-ish level design and a drat sight prettier by modern standards", but I never honestly expected it would be, and for what it is, well, it's more in line with what I want than what I don't want. As far as "they should just make another retro FPS" goes, though, wasn't it the case a few months ago that 3DRealms was looking for talented Build Engine mappers/modders...?
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Jun 18, 2015 06:08
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Elliotw2 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCigiEuRvrA The ideal Doom 4.
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Jun 18, 2015 06:17
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Elliotw2 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCigiEuRvrA The ideal Doom 4. NWS that poo poo
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Jun 18, 2015 06:25
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Elliotw2 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCigiEuRvrA The ideal Doom 4. My eyes! My goddamn eyes!
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Jun 18, 2015 06:31
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Jun 18, 2015 07:05
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Woolie Wool posted:Keep in mind that "art" in modern video games is an assembly line process. It's not a bunch of guys in Texas finding Adrian Carmack and wow he's a good artist, they're hiring graduates from art colleges with no particular talent or insight, who execute standardized styles in a workmanlike way for (this is the important part) extremely low pay. There's very little actual art involved. If you did hire Wayne Barlowe as Doom 3's art director, the actual visual assets workers would likely have no idea what to do with his designs and just go with the styles that have been drilled into them instead. This is not really true for ID. They're a lot bigger now, but they're still small enough that ownership for an asset usually falls on a single person. Not every aspect of an asset to the same person of course, a character is modeled, rigged, animated and coded by four separate people, but each aspect usually belongs to one. A set of environment modules is usually put together by one person, who has quite a lot of influence over the look. Also it's seriously unfair towards the artists to claim that if Barlowe art-directed they wouldn't be able to output his designs. Though of course art direction and final lighting and effects are the people with the most impact on the final look of the game, so if one wants to be a sociopath one could easily pin the "blame" on a single person. Castlevania: Lord Of Shadow had parts near the end of the game that looked exactly like a Beksinski painting. That game had amazing art direction overall, well worth playing through for the visuals. In my opinion neither Beksinski nor Barlowe are very Doom, but they're hella cool anyway!
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Jun 18, 2015 08:29
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I'm just annoyed by the everything-is-brown honestly. If they'd actually use color I'd be excited. And if it comes out looking a bit off because of lack of radiosity... who cares!? It's Hell, it SHOULD look a little off!
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Jun 18, 2015 08:45
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Elliotw2 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCigiEuRvrA The ideal Doom 4. The gibs look more satisfying than the stuff in the actual Doom 4 reveal trailer.
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Jun 18, 2015 09:02
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Shadow Hog posted:Took me a few days to catch up on everything that's been said. I'll just say I'm generally feeling positive about Doom 4; although I have several reservations, most of which have already been raised in this thread, I still think it looks like it'd be a fun ride to go on. I mean, it's not my ideal of "just Doom 2 verbatim, mechanically, but with Quake-ish level design and a drat sight prettier by modern standards", but I never honestly expected it would be, and for what it is, well, it's more in line with what I want than what I don't want. The new 3DR and iD are two different things. 3DR is much smaller, which gives them wiggle room to do more experimental things like make new 2.5 FPSD games. iD is just a branch of a very large and public corporation, which has shareholders putting pressure on them to make the most money possible. A new and modern Doom game has far larger sales potential than a new Doom engine game meant to appeal to grognards.
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Jun 18, 2015 09:24
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I liked the part in the helltrailer where the skelton mans jetpack went hogwild and he started spinning around and then flew away and exploded
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Jun 18, 2015 09:48
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Zaphod42 posted:They did in the 90s. It's a balance issue. The weapons do 2-3 times less damage because there will be 2-3 times less enemies, so the enemies need to be 2-3 times tougher, that's why the weapons seem to do less damage.
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Jun 18, 2015 10:19
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The only thing that bugged me about the weapons is that their animations need to be exaggerated. It's like a year from release so they could be tweaked a bunch until then.Zzulu posted:I liked the part in the helltrailer where the skelton mans jetpack went hogwild and he started spinning around and then flew away and exploded I want to say this is one of my favorite video game tropes but now I can't actually think of when that has happened. 
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Jun 18, 2015 11:42
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:The only thing that bugged me about the weapons is that their animations need to be exaggerated. It's like a year from release so they could be tweaked a bunch until then. Just Cause 2, with those little tanks of gas/CO?
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