chitoryu12 posted:The only actual definition of roleplaying video game is "Well-developed storyline and narrative, complex world with immersion, and character development." There's absolutely zero requirement for a video game RPG to have an open-ended storyline or player-driven characterization. You're committing a typical No True Scotsman fallacy. So there are literally no RPGs then, if video game writing is anything to go by?
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Jun 18, 2015 08:29
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Moridin920 posted:You're assuming a lot from one sentence. I'll admit I might have overreacted a bit based on Yaos's post, which said "Dialogue choices change your character's personality". Nested dialogue is possible, I'll agree, though I'm still not a fan of not seeing the full line of dialogue in the interface. Mordaedil posted:The first Fallouts and nearly no RPG ever (that I've ever played, but I hate the Witcher so ymmv) has put you into a relationship at the beginning of the game, given you an off spring that is yours and essentially forced a religion on you. This is all I'm really saying with regard to the backstory. I'm okay with being told where I came from and so on, but starting me off as a married parent feels like it's crossing a line.
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Jun 18, 2015 08:32
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Thank god I don't care about storyline or immersion in Bethesda games so this stuff doesn't bother me.
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Jun 18, 2015 08:35
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chitoryu12 posted:The only actual definition of roleplaying video game is "Well-developed storyline and narrative, complex world with immersion, and character development." There's absolutely zero requirement for a video game RPG to have an open-ended storyline or player-driven characterization. You're committing a typical No True Scotsman fallacy. This is Websters definition then? The 'actual' one?
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Jun 18, 2015 08:36
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Mordaedil posted:The first Fallouts and nearly no RPG ever (that I've ever played, but I hate the Witcher so ymmv) has put you into a relationship at the beginning of the game, given you an off spring that is yours and essentially forced a religion on you. I think the problem is that you can, generally speaking, either have a reactive plotline or have a total blank slate. While it's great that you can play a cannibal wizard cat-man gay married to a lizard-man in Skyrim, the game will treat you the exact same way it treated the guy who went with the generic Nord hero and that's way more jarring and immersion-ruining than 'my character was married at the start of the game'. And while that may be slightly better for your head-canon, most (filthy casual) gamers want a voiced and somewhat defined character you can push in different directions, because then the game-world will actually react to this character. quote:But I'm okay with it assuming they are fake memories put in my head as I'm an android, so don't expect me to be boycotting or anything. I'm thoroughly hyped, it just put a damper on it for me, is all. You can't erase that, but you apparently can ridicule me for feeling that way. Yep! I mean, you won't know what the plot twists are until the game's been out awhile, so I guess you're either going to wait to buy it until someone spoils it for you, or just play the game normally but then if it's ever revealed that your memories aren't fake then you'll turn off the game in disgust I guess  And yes, if you're the guy who could only enjoy New Vegas by pretending the Courier was secretly the Lone Wanderer or a time-traveling alien or something then that's stupid and you're stupid.
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Jun 18, 2015 08:37
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chitoryu12 posted:The only actual definition of roleplaying video game is "Well-developed storyline and narrative, complex world with immersion, and character development." There's absolutely zero requirement for a video game RPG to have an open-ended storyline or player-driven characterization. You're committing a typical No True Scotsman fallacy. The problem with the definition of a roleplaying video game is that it has been an evolving term in the last decade. 20 years ago it meant one thing, because there was only that thing available on the market. In the last decade though, people who have been fans of RPG games have started to transition those elements into other game genres to help make those games better experiences, so I'm not saying it is a bad thing, but the above is really not all an RPG is. Complex world isn't even a requirement, you could technically have an entire roleplaying game take place in a single room and "well-developed storyline and narrative" applies to nearly every game, but what truly makes RPG's stand out is in how the player can affect them, like a CYOA with multiple waterfall solutions eventually arriving at a conclusion. Technically you could do an RPG without levels and without a single development for your own character, but it'd be a narrative experience. However, what the audience expects doesn't align with what the terms mean anymore.
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Jun 18, 2015 08:41
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Wolfsheim posted:And yes, if you're the guy who could only enjoy New Vegas by pretending the Courier was secretly the Lone Wanderer Someone didn't play with the Tale of two wastelands mod (It merges FO3 and New Vegas).
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Jun 18, 2015 08:41
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Wolfsheim posted:I think the problem is that you can, generally speaking, either have a reactive plotline or have a total blank slate. While it's great that you can play a cannibal wizard cat-man gay married to a lizard-man in Skyrim, the game will treat you the exact same way it treated the guy who went with the generic Nord hero and that's way more jarring and immersion-ruining than 'my character was married at the start of the game'. And while that may be slightly better for your head-canon, most (filthy casual) gamers want a voiced and somewhat defined character you can push in different directions, because then the game-world will actually react to this character. I can understand this, which is why my ideal situation would have you choose some parts of your background during character creation.
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Jun 18, 2015 08:41
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Nuebot posted:So there are literally no RPGs then, if video game writing is anything to go by? Hey man that one deus ex game was pretty good
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Jun 18, 2015 08:43
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Praetorian Mage posted:I can understand this, which is why my ideal situation would have you choose some parts of your background during character creation. If Mass Effect or DAO are anything to go by, that just adds a handful of moments where they kind of awkwardly fit it into the pre-existing plot dialogue  And not saying this is an either/or situation, but I feel like being able to craft an entire shanty town down to the style and placement of the furniture is far more interesting in terms of role playing a certain 'character' than whatever job your guy had in the first five minutes of the game before the bombs dropped.
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Jun 18, 2015 08:54
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Wolfsheim posted:If Mass Effect or DAO are anything to go by, that just adds a handful of moments where they kind of awkwardly fit it into the pre-existing plot dialogue True, but I still think it's a good idea, even if it hasn't been done well in the past.
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Jun 18, 2015 09:06
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Bethesda doesn't make rpgs they make larping tools
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Jun 18, 2015 10:30
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BlackLaser posted:
"There's no perks tab in that picture, there will be no perks, OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG" - this thread
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Jun 18, 2015 12:02
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The best part about fallout is slashing up a body to pieces then playing with the corpse
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Jun 18, 2015 12:28
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frajaq posted:It's always your actions as a player on the Wastelands that matter, also there's nothing wrong with some backstory so you can feel even the tiniest invested in the main quest or what not. Like I was never motivated in the TES series to do the Main Quest exactly because I was a blank character. They didn't murder him, he committed suicide.
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Jun 18, 2015 12:33
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Despite not needing to and apparently the guy he kamikaze'd somehow survived the radiation overload that murdered your dad in seconds, despite also going to the ground faster than him and being left for dead for as long as it takes you to leave. Kind of a giant plothole that.
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Jun 18, 2015 12:38
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Colonel Autumn can be seen injecting himself with a mystery substance right before he collapses, presumably some kind of ultra rad-x.
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Jun 18, 2015 12:42
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Makes sense considering their paranoia of radiation.
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Jun 18, 2015 12:43
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Please make underwear a clothing item, I am an adult!!!!!!!!!!
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Jun 18, 2015 12:44
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Mordaedil posted:Despite not needing to and apparently the guy he kamikaze'd somehow survived the radiation overload that murdered your dad in seconds, despite also going to the ground faster than him and being left for dead for as long as it takes you to leave. If you watch closely, he injects magically scientific not-dying medicine into his arm. Which leads to more plot holes Like why he wouldn't just give it to his soldiers so they can go in and guess the very complicated 3-digit code.
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Jun 18, 2015 12:45
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 People playing the No True RPG card ITT. Such whining about Fallout, but I don't think the game you want actually exists. Is there an RPG on PS4 that satisfies you people?I mean Witcher 3 is amazing to me, I love it, but it's obviously utter poo poo to these whiners because you can't create your character, you start with predefined relationships, and the main quest is to find your missing daughter. I am going to play and enjoy Fallout 4, just like Fallout 3 and Skyrim.
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Jun 18, 2015 13:33
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Theta Zero posted:If you watch closely, he injects magically scientific not-dying medicine into his arm. If they get it wrong 3 times in a row they will be locked out and he will have to call his bank
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Jun 18, 2015 13:37
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marktheando posted:
Shut up. People have criticism about the game, it's not like we're saying the game sucks and we're not going to play it. We're just addressing the subjects we have problems with. We're not whining over nothing, we're critiquing things we don't like in a constructive manner instead of blindly going "omfg, bethesda best company 4ever!" PS: If you are planning to buy this game on a PS4, I would urge you to reconsider, because Bethesda has a long history of poor support on Sony platforms. That's just a sad fact.
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Jun 18, 2015 13:40
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Mordaedil posted:PS: If you are planning to buy this game on a PS4, I would urge you to reconsider, because Bethesda has a long history of poor support on Sony platforms. That's just a sad fact. That's mostly because the PS3's weird processor architecture and low memory didn't play nice with Bethesda's lovely engine. Andrast fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 13:43
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Mordaedil posted:Shut up. People have criticism about the game, it's not like we're saying the game sucks and we're not going to play it. We're just addressing the subjects we have problems with. We're not whining over nothing, we're critiquing things we don't like in a constructive manner instead of blindly going "omfg, bethesda best company 4ever!" Maybe try criticising the game for what it is, and not for what it isn't? Mordaedil posted:PS: If you are planning to buy this game on a PS4, I would urge you to reconsider, because Bethesda has a long history of poor support on Sony platforms. That's just a sad fact. That was because of the PS3's memory limitations, an issue the PS4 doesn't have. This time round the xbone version is likely to be the shitter of the two. Besides, I don't have an xbone or a gaming pc.
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Jun 18, 2015 13:46
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Mordaedil posted:Shut up. People have criticism about the game, it's not like we're saying the game sucks and we're not going to play it. We're just addressing the subjects we have problems with. We're not whining over nothing, we're critiquing things we don't like in a constructive manner instead of blindly going "omfg, bethesda best company 4ever!" lmao. half of you are bitching about technical things you don't even understand, and the other half are bitching about it not have things no game has while pointing to games like the witcher 3 that do the exact same things. there's nothing constructive about "guys no seriously it will still be bad! please look at me!"
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Jun 18, 2015 13:53
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Mordaedil posted:Shut up. People have criticism about the game, it's not like we're saying the game sucks and we're not going to play it. We're just addressing the subjects we have problems with. We're not whining over nothing, we're critiquing things we don't like in a constructive manner instead of blindly going "omfg, bethesda best company 4ever!" marktheando posted:Maybe try criticising the game for what it is, and not for what it isn't?  I don't personally like Witcher 3 because I don't like playing as Geralt because his personality, motivation don't interest me at all. That doesn't mean I think the game is bad and I'm not going to criticize the game for it because I'm sure there are weird people who actually enjoy playing as Geralt. Anyway, I'm a bit sad Witcher 3 does not cater to me because it seems like such a well made game in every respect, but that's just it. I can't really criticize the game for an intentional decision to make it about Geralt. It's like buying a red shirt and complaining that it's not blue when you get home.
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Jun 18, 2015 13:58
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I predict that this game won't be everything I hope it will be, but I will play it and enjoy it. Then mods will start coming out and I will play it again and enjoy it more.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy3gqnJYQKQ http://www.gameinformer.com/games/fallout_4/b/playstation4/archive/2015/06/17/19-new-details-fans-need-to-know-about-fallout-4.aspx http://www.gamesradar.com/fallout-4-so-expansive-even-its-creators-havent-seen-everything/ quote:"I've played the game probably 400 hours, and I'm still finding stuff that I haven't seen yet," lead producer Jeff Gardiner noted. 
BlackLaser fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 14:02
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marktheando posted:Maybe try criticising the game for what it is, and not for what it isn't?
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Jun 18, 2015 14:02
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Minorkos posted:
The difference between the Witcher and Fallout 4 is that previously FO didn't have a pre-established character. Changing this in Fallout 4 is naturally going to annoy some fans who preferred it the other way. An established series comes with many expectations what the game is going to be like and changes in key elements(especially ones that are sidegrades at best) will always result in people criticizing it.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:07
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Has there been a single RPG developer in the last ten years who hasn't made the 'this game's so big, holy poo poo, even I haven't seen everything!!!' claim?
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Jun 18, 2015 14:14
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Minorkos posted:I don't personally like Witcher 3 because I probably didn't play the other games. FTFY.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:15
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Mordaedil posted:Shut up. People have criticism about the game, it's not like we're saying the game sucks and we're not going to play it. We're just addressing the subjects we have problems with. We're not whining over nothing, we're critiquing things we don't like in a constructive manner instead of blindly going "omfg, bethesda best company 4ever!" hes right tho people are being p. retarded about it
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Jun 18, 2015 14:16
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I know I am probably hoping in vain, but I hope they hired people from Boston to do the Boston accents. I also hope that "putting the Boston accent on signs" means the basic Massachusetts rule that it has about six letters you don't say, like with Worcester and Gloucester, instead of a bunch of signs that way Wusstah and Glawstah. I hope they include some of the robust Boston lexicon instead of merely sticking the word "wicked" in a few places.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:19
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Blue Raider posted:hes right tho people are being p. retarded about it Everybody has their pet peeves and there is no rule against posting about it. I'm legit excited about the game, it just tastes like a sour lemon in the melon desert. For some, that lemon adds spice, for others it isn't what they expected. Feeling either way is fine.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:22
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Oh Mr. Handy...  Also let's translate that Jeff Gardiner statement. "I've played the game probably 400 hours" - It's my job to play and replay this game so it's mandatory that I put a lot of time into it. "...and I'm still finding stuff I haven't seen yet." - The game is still being developed so they keep adding new poo poo for every new revision they hand me to play.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:22
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Andrast posted:The difference between the Witcher and Fallout 4 is that previously FO didn't have a pre-established character. Changing this in Fallout 4 is naturally going to annoy some fans who preferred it the other way. That's true, but player freedom and "writing your own story" wasn't all that important in the old games. The only real way you could finish Fallout 1 is by getting the water chip, killing master and leaving the vault. You had a family in Fallout 2 and again, the only real ending (if I recall correctly) was to blow up Enclave. Your character even talks by themselves in Fallout 2, mostly to snark and stuff (not a huge problem unless you really want to roleplay a no-bullshit kinda guy) I'm fairly sure "player freedom" as a word started getting thrown around when Bethesda came into the mix, ironically. I don't think the concept of having a family is outright detrimental to the game, but there's a lot of ways Bethesda can gently caress it up. It's possible that Bethesda can masterfully write something amazing that can only work if your character has a family. It's a lot more possible that we're railroaded to caring about them at a later plot point and it will suck. BlackLaser posted:http://www.gameinformer.com/games/fallout_4/b/playstation4/archive/2015/06/17/19-new-details-fans-need-to-know-about-fallout-4.aspx A lot of this seems like the typical Todd "Tell me sweet little lies" Howard talk so I'm not going to believe any of this. Although the thing about making the level of the enemies scale by area is something I wanted even before Fallout 3 came out Joe Gillian posted:FTFY. I tried playing Witcher 2 like 2 years before Witcher 3 came out, and I didn't like that game either for the exact same reasons. So maybe I should play Witcher 1? I think the character is just incompatible with my personality. Minorkos fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 14:27
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King Vidiot posted:Oh Mr. Handy... Or he just keeps finding new bugs 
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Jun 18, 2015 14:29
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Minorkos posted:That's true, but player freedom and "writing your own story" wasn't all that important in the old games. The only real way you could finish Fallout 1 is by getting the water chip, killing master and leaving the vault. You had a family in Fallout 2 and again, the only real ending (if I recall correctly) was to blow up Enclave. Your character even talks by itself in Fallout 2, mostly to snark and stuff (not a huge problem unless you really want to roleplay a no-bullshit kinda guy) I'd like to think that the player freedom and "writing your own story" people are more fans of Bethesda style games (Elder Scrolls and FO3) instead of Fallout 1 and 2.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:31
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